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Are the clegy dying out in Ireland?

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  • 23-11-2011 11:10am
    #1
    nc2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭


    I live in Poland and I just can't get over the amount of young nuns here. I find it kind of disturbing that women so young would embrace the habit. Does anyone know if this is still going on in Ireland...I don't think I've ever seen a nun under 60!
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    #2
    Onesimus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Onesimus


    Why would you find it disturbing that women so young would embrace the habit?


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    #3
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Most nuns are old or ageing, it's a real problem for most orders.
    I'm surprised that it's still popular in Poland, tho when you think about it maybe not that surprising. Any idea what vocations to monks are in Poland? Here they are well down and again aging populations of monks are a problem.
    I find it kind of disturbing that women so young would embrace the habit.
    Disturbing? not sad or problematic or of concern. Why?


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    #4
    branie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭branie


    More religios vocations in Poland then. Great :-)


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    #5
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Clergy do seem to be dying out in Ireland. People attending church services are getting less and less and are often the older generation. This is generally well known. It would seem to me that this is directly linked to the increased education of Irish people and the churches attitude to child abuse.


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    #6
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Well having come just come from a packed mass celebrating the historical time of advent, I'd beg to differ from the previous poster.


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    #7
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Is it advent? It gets earlier every year!


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    #8
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Manach wrote: »
    Well having come just come from a packed mass celebrating the historical time of advent, I'd beg to differ from the previous poster.

    Are you proposing that Numbers attending mass are not falling?


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    #9
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    Are you proposing that Numbers attending mass are not falling?

    Not in my parish, if anything in recent times I have noticed them on the increase. If you're not there early, it's now harder to find a seat. Not that I have anything against falling numbers anywhere else. I much prefer quality over quantity. Hopefully most of the pretend Catholics have all fecked off now, as it's now positively unfashionable and unwordly to be one. A much better situation.


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    #10
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,669 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    Are you proposing that Numbers attending mass are not falling?
    Yes - based on the one data point from my parish. However if they continue on the folk "singing", that might change :) .


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    #11
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    The culchies love the priests and still fill up the churches in their droves so unfortunately the RCC is still going to have undue influence in this country, still absurdly impacting us norms.


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    #12
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Onesimus wrote: »
    Why would you find it disturbing that women so young would embrace the habit?

    Because a life without sex is retarded?


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    #13
    Propellerhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    The Quadratic Equation wrote: »
    Not in my parish, if anything in recent times I have noticed them on the increase. If you're not there early, it's now harder to find a seat. Not that I have anything against falling numbers. I much prefer quality over quantity. Hopefully most of the pretend Catholics have all fecked off now, as it's now unfashionable to be one. A much better situation.

    Thank God I don't deal with that sort of snobbery any more :D

    If the schools ever get out of Church control then imagine the malodorous sanctity that will result when all the Ultramontane rigorists alienate the liberals and even the ordinary believer from the Church. Plenty of sermons about condoms, the Divine Mercy and Mass in the Extraordinary form will be the future of the Irish Catholic Church then.

    God help us.


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    #14
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    Propellerhead wrote: »
    Thank God I don't deal with that sort of snobbery any more :D

    If the schools ever get out of Church control then imagine the malodorous sanctity that will result when all the Ultramontane rigorists alienate the liberals and even the ordinary believer from the Church. Plenty of sermons about condoms, the Divine Mercy and Mass in the Extraordinary form will be the future of the Irish Catholic Church then.

    God help us.

    Thankfully I generally only encounter such inaccurate bigotry online.


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    #15
    Propellerhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 394 ✭✭Propellerhead


    The Quadratic Equation wrote: »
    Thankfully I generally only encounter such inaccurate bigotry online.

    Otherwise there would be conservative Catholics wanting the less doctrinily pure Catholics to feck off then, eh?


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    #16
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Orizio wrote: »
    Because a life without sex is retarded?

    Woah their, thats a bit strong isn't it. I might agree that celibacy is an odd way to express love of God but retarded!
    You need a better explanation than that or even the promiscuous will avoid you like the plague.


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    #17
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    Propellerhead wrote: »
    Otherwise there would be conservative Catholics wanting the less doctrinily pure Catholics to feck off then, eh?

    Someone is either Catholic or they are not, it's not an a la carte menu system. There are 40,000 plus Prodestant denominations and interpretations to choose from if someone wants that.


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    #18
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    You need a better explanation than that or even the promiscuous will avoid you like the plague.

    ...what? Celibacy is backwards (i.e. retarded) - what are you confused about?


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    #19
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Celibacy is backwards
    No thats doggie style are you confusing celibacy with the missionary position? ;)

    It's not backwards, it a choice not necessarily confined to religious orders.
    It may be hard to understand but not everyone is driven by sex.
    And don't try to persuade me you used retarded to mean regressive, man up and apologizes if you got it wrong or keep digging if you want to.


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    #20
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    The Quadratic Equation wrote: »
    Not in my parish, if anything in recent times I have noticed them on the increase. If you're not there early, it's now harder to find a seat. Not that I have anything against falling numbers anywhere else. I much prefer quality over quantity. Hopefully most of the pretend Catholics have all fecked off now, as it's now positively unfashionable and unwordly to be one. A much better situation.

    So if someone turns there back on the Catholic church because for example they are disgusted at the attitude that this establishment shows towards child abuse (which is not unheard of) you call them 'pretend' catholics? So what kind of place do 'real' catholics seek. what type of 'better situation' do you get when people with such human emotions are excluded?


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    #21
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    No thats doggie style are you confusing celibacy with the missionary position? ;)

    It's not backwards, it a choice not necessarily confined to religious orders.
    It may be hard to understand but not everyone is driven by sex.

    No one said anything about being 'driven' by anything - please do not twist my words again. Sex is an entirely natural and vitally important evolutionary impulse that celibacy seeks to repress - hence the idea that celibacy is 'retarded' or 'backwards'.
    And don't try to persuade me you used retarded to mean regressive, man up and apologizes if you got it wrong or keep digging if you want to.

    ...you have no idea what the term 'retarded' actually means do you? :rolleyes: Just to help you out:

    retard: 'to delay or slow down'

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/retard

    Hope that helps.


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    #22
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    jonniebgood1 wrote: »
    So if someone turns there back on the Catholic church because for example they are disgusted at the attitude that this establishment shows towards child abuse (which is not unheard of) you call them 'pretend' catholics? So what kind of place do 'real' catholics seek. what type of 'better situation' do you get when people with such human emotions are excluded?

    I feel genuinely sorry for anyone that has been tricked into leaving on just those grounds, but from what I've seen, most people that have left in recent times, were only there, to be seen to be there, and thankfully locally there has not been that many of them. The Catholic Church is 1 billion Catholics, and the Church utterly condems child abuse and any complicity in dealing with it. The failings of a small minority of Priests and Bishops, is hardly grounds for blaming the rest. When there was only 12 apostles, there was still one Judas, even in the time of Jesus. Are all Irish people corrupt because some of their leaders were ? Should everyone leave Ireland to them ? I think not.


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    #23
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    The Quadratic Equation wrote: »
    Someone is either Catholic or they are not, it's not an a la carte menu system. There are 40,000 plus Prodestant denominations and interpretations to choose from if someone wants that.

    I thought once baptised into the one true church it is not possible to leave it ? one may be a lapsed catholic but a catholic none the less, is that not correct ?

    As a side issue I notice TQE you are quite dogmatic in some of your pronouncements , what qualifies you to say who is or is'nt a catholic ?


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    #24
    soterpisc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭soterpisc


    nc2000 wrote: »
    I live in Poland and I just can't get over the amount of young nuns here. I find it kind of disturbing that women so young would embrace the habit. Does anyone know if this is still going on in Ireland...I don't think I've ever seen a nun under 60!


    Why does is pick you conscience that people give their lives to a noble cause??

    since there are no clegy in Ireland then no. the clegy are not dying out...


    as for the Clergy they are actually growing in Ireland. 90 priests in Training at the moment.

    (FYI... Nuns are not classed as clergy)


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    #25
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    90 priests in Training at the moment.
    This rescission has hit harder than I thought.
    (FYI... Nuns are not classed as clergy)
    Now theirs a whole other can of worms.


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    #26
    soterpisc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 298 ✭✭soterpisc


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    This rescission has hit harder than I thought.

    Well a priest I know left a 80K job for the seminary. Self made man. Even in the good times where there was plenty money does not always buy happiness.

    In the US catholic priests have been growing in numbers for years, South Korea has a boom in vocations.

    Seminarians who enter the seminary looking for an easy "Career" don't last long


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    #27
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    marienbad wrote: »
    I thought once baptised into the one true church it is not possible to leave it ? one may be a lapsed catholic but a catholic none the less, is that not correct ?

    As a side issue I notice TQE you are quite dogmatic in some of your pronouncements , what qualifies you to say who is or is'nt a catholic ?

    Just because someone is baptised and therefore once a Catholic, does not make them a current Catholic.

    A lapsed Catholic, or ex-Catholic, or former Catholic is not a Catholic. To remain a Catholic you must observe the five precepts of the Church. I didn't decide this, that is just the facts.


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    #28
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    A lapsed Catholic, or ex-Catholic, or former Catholic is not a Catholic. To remain a Catholic you must observe the five precepts of the Church. I didn't decide this, that is just the facts.
    A "lapsed Catholic" who has stopped practicing the faith (one who does not go to Mass or confession, or carry out other practices of Catholicism) is not necessarily an "ex-Catholic", a term that would apply instead to someone who no longer identifies as Catholic or has even adopted a new religion.
    But it nice to see a hard line drawn, I guess I'm out then.


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    #29
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    tommy2bad wrote: »
    A "lapsed Catholic" who has stopped practicing the faith (one who does not go to Mass or confession, or carry out other practices of Catholicism) is not necessarily an "ex-Catholic", a term that would apply instead to someone who no longer identifies as Catholic or has even adopted a new religion.
    Hence the term 'or' was used in my post
    tommy2bad wrote: »
    But it nice to see a hard line drawn, I guess I'm out then.

    That's your own choice, the five precepts apply to anyone who wishes to remain Catholic including the Pope.
    They are not hard at all.


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    #30
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    The Quadratic Equation wrote: »
    Just because someone is baptised and therefore once a Catholic, does not make them a current Catholic.

    A lapsed Catholic, or ex-Catholic, or former Catholic is not a Catholic. To remain a Catholic you must observe the five precepts of the Church. I didn't decide this, that is just the facts.

    What facts are those, until recently there was a defection process whereby (as far as I know) one could have a name removed from the baptismal roll , but that has now been suspended.

    Your definition of observing the five precepts is just the difference between a good and bad catholic is it not.


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    #31
    The Quadratic Equation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭The Quadratic Equation


    marienbad wrote: »
    What facts are those, until recently there was a defection process whereby (as far as I know) one could have a name removed from the baptismal roll , but that has now been suspended.

    AFAIK That was a record of formal defection, untill the Church decided it did not need to keep such records, because at the end of the day, that is really up the individual. The Church estimates how many current Catholics there are, not by baptismal records, but by the annual census Sundays at mass.
    marienbad wrote: »
    Your definition of observing the five precepts is just the difference between a good and bad catholic is it not.

    No, there is much more to being a "good" Catholic than merely keeping the five precepts. It is only a starting point.


This discussion has been closed.
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