Who gives a f****** about the children?

Jesus Shaves · 24-11-2011 02:54AM

Johro wrote: »

Sure. What though? Coz in the meantime, while we work it out, or not, or pretend to, or ignore it, children are dying.

The world is overpopulated as it is, It's just nature balancing itself out, Let mother nature do her job!

Johro · 24-11-2011 03:01AM

darokane wrote: »

After all deductions have been taken from the monies very little of it gets used for its purpose

That's not actually true. It may be in some cases, but most major charities will give a clear breakdown of how money is spent, it doesn't take much effort to find that out. It shouldn't be used as an excuse not to give to charity, but it often is.
Alternatively, there are options such as buying a goat, a couple of chickens, a bag of cropseed, stuff like that.

Jesus Shaves · 24-11-2011 03:03AM

Johro wrote: »

That's not actually true. It may be in some cases, but most major charities will give a clear breakdown of how money is spent, it doesn't take much effort to find that out. It shouldn't be used as an excuse not to give to charity, but it often is.
Alternatively, there are options such as buying a goat, a couple of chickens, a bag of cropseed, stuff like that.

Ignorance really is bliss

LighterGuy · 24-11-2011 03:04AM

darokane wrote: »

After all deductions have been taken from the monies very little of it gets used for its purpose

A charity is one of the best businesses a person can create.

- You don't get taxed.
- Its all donations. be it money, clothes or what not. So its not like a regular business risking money on products to manufacture or sell.
- You can create a good paying job for yourself as "CEO". Take a nice pay check each week. Perfectly legal.
- Apart from the above you can skim on the donations. Whos to know how much you get in donations every week. Its not like someone is going to declare the official amount THEN skim. Money just magically disappears from the time you donate to whats officially taken in.

Johro · 24-11-2011 03:04AM

darokane wrote: »

The world is overpopulated as it is, It's just nature balancing itself out, Let mother nature do her job!

You could easily have been born in Ethiopia though, for instance, and you'd have a very different outlook. It's pure chance you were born in a country and at a time where your parents were able to feed you. We can't punish people for where they were born.

Johro · 24-11-2011 03:06AM

darokane wrote: »

Ignorance really is bliss

Yes it is. You said it.

jimpump · 24-11-2011 03:08AM

Slydice, how much have you donated to the poor countries in africa...........probably 2 euro so STFU

Johro · 24-11-2011 03:16AM

LighterGuy wrote: »

A charity is one of the best businesses a person can create.

- You don't get taxed.
- Its all donations. be it money, clothes or what not. So its not like a regular business risking money on products to manufacture or sell.
- You can create a good paying job for yourself as "CEO". Take a nice pay check each week. Perfectly legal.
- Apart from the above you can skim on the donations. Whos to know how much you get in donations every week. Its not like someone is going to declare the official amount THEN skim. Money just magically disappears from the time you donate to whats officially taken in.

:rolleyes: You have proof of this? I'm guessing you don't, mainly because it's bollocks. Sure, a percentage is used for administration, shipping has to be paid for etc., but money just magically disappears??

LighterGuy · 24-11-2011 03:29AM

Johro wrote: »

:rolleyes: You have proof of this? I'm guessing you don't, mainly because it's bollocks. Sure, a percentage is used for administration, shipping has to be paid for etc., but money just magically disappears??

Ok,
Lets use logic.
Both you or I cannot say how many charities are legit and how many are fraudulent. Because both of us do not know how many are what. All we can state is that some are legit, some are not, right?

So lets take a legit charity and a fraudulent charity. Money is both donated to them. While one will accurately count donations and officially declare money to be sent forward. The other doesnt do the same.

How is that?
Because at the end of the day someone counts the daily donations. Someone deducts the operating costs, someone then moves the money along to those who are receiving.... see this is about people. about man. And last time I checked the world wasnt an honest place.
So while you can say some charities are true and legit. You are right. But also when a guy like me says some are not. I am also right. We are talking about people here.

Wibbs · 24-11-2011 10:41AM

Johro wrote: »

What's also annoying to me is that it seems to be always the people who don't have much that give the most, I just wish people like Bono, instead of his fucking lecturing and pontificating, would put his money where his mouth is.

He does. While I think he's part of the problem, he's raised the profile of parts of the continent and helped downgrade their debt.

I find it hard to watch the images of starving babies, I remember vividly last years appeal when they showed a father who, after walking for days to reach a clinic, had to choose which of his two children to save as they only had food and meds for one. I'm aware of the fact that most of peoples everyday problems don't really compare. I'm also aware that not everyone can afford to give, that people have their own immediate problems to deal with too, and that the situation seems pretty hopeless.

It is pretty hopeless. You could have written that same paragraph 40 years ago. Someone probably did. As for the Irish in all this? Younger folks may not be aware of the amount of Irish people of a particular generation who went "on the missions" to various parts of Africa. It seems quite the forgotten generation. Lost on the back of the kiddy fiddler clergy there were other religious people who made big differences to the place on the ground. Providing medical care and education.

It's hopeless until there's a real political will to stop this. This problem has been around for ever, but there are solutions if the will is there. For example, if the world's powerful nations stopped spending on arms for a week and spent it on famine relief instead, it would stop hunger.

Hunger is not the issue. We know how to "feed the world". We knew long before Geldof threw it in as a lyric. As for the "powerful nations", maybe the African elites should take your advice. After all it's their country. At the height of the Ethiopian famine in the 80's their own government were spending more on armaments than all the charity money put together.

Johro wrote: »

True. Places like Rwanda and the Congo, fucked up largely through the after effects of colonialism. Somalia looks like hell on earth. There have to be solutions though..
Again it's down to political will. Maybe there's not enough oil there.

Nope this oft trotted out explanation won't wash for me any more either. Somalia? It was colonised by European powers(France/UK) for a period from the late 19th century to the mid 20th. Hardly centuries of oppression. Oh and the same goes for Rwanda BTW. The Congo for longer, but not much longer. As for oil? The Congo is considered one of the richest nations on earth as far as natural resources go, yet it's one of the poorest on earth.

--Kaiser-- · 24-11-2011 10:55AM

I'm sure everyone has heard this cliche before, but how many have actually thought about it?
"Give a man a fish and he'll be fed for a day, teach a man to fish and he will be fed for life"

Aid is not the answer to the problem of Africas starving millions. It's not the horrible desert you see in those Trocaire ads, most of it is a lush paradise. I have just returned from South Africa (one of the more successful African countries) and what struck me most is that many of these people are poor (by Irish standards) but I saw only 2 beggars the whole time I was there. These are a proud people and they don't beg for money and don't get any sort of welfare from the state. People will whittle animals out of wood, sell timber by the side of the road or act as guides to get money. Even if they don't have a job they will get by on subsistence farming

strobe · 24-11-2011 10:56AM

I reckon the only genuine solution would be to federalise the UN with a constitution based off the UNDHR (with appropriate alterations so that 'state' specific articles apply for the entire federation etc) facilitating genuine, free, borderless international travel.

Bring on the NWO, I say.

mloc · 24-11-2011 11:01AM

Unilateral aid, with the exception of emergency relief due to natural disasters, just doesn't work.

Giving money away doesn't fix the problem. Buying up and investing in Africa, however, might have some effect, particularly through the effect it has on political reform.

Gummy Panda · 24-11-2011 11:02AM

I agree with OP.

Let's give more aid to countries like uganda who are landlocked but seem to use their funds to buy anti-naval fighter jets

Canis Lupus · 24-11-2011 11:28AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I'm sure everyone has heard this cliche before, but how many have actually thought about it?
"Give a man a fish and he'll be fed for a day, teach a man to fish and he will be fed for life"

what struck me most is that many of these people are poor (by Irish standards) but I saw only 2 beggars the whole time I was there. These are a proud people and they don't beg for money and don't get any sort of welfare from the state.

Just want to say I'm cycling through W Africa at the moment and from Nouakchott down (Mauritanian capital) through Senegal and now into Mali the begging is often unreal. From children to adults it's a constant request for money and cadeau (present). They see whitey me on a bike and just walk out in front of me on the road to make me stop and ask for money. I've had small mobs of children chase me shouting for money and presents. I've had adults, who in the local sense look well off, just walk up to me without even bothering to say hello and say I would like some money....

Raging_Ninja · 24-11-2011 11:53AM

I agree with the OP, we should invade them and bring them civilization. Obviously they are incapable of looking after themselves and need a strong guiding hand.

foxyboxer · 24-11-2011 12:20PM

Maybe that 'racist' Mayor was onto something.

Wibbs · 24-11-2011 01:12PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I agree with OP.

Let's give more aid to countries like uganda who are landlocked but seem to use their funds to buy anti-naval fighter jets

Look at the decline of the Congo. In their colonial past they had one of the first African motorways, an extensive railway, ongoing electrification, telephone system etc. Within a generation it disappeared. Now travelers can walk through what looks like pristine jungle only to stumble upon a locomotive rusting in the undergrowth. The road system is only passable on foot in the majority of stretches and the best way to make your way in the country is down the river system. All this in a country that by rights should be one of the richest on earth. Compare and contrast today with some east Asian countries with much lower natural resources who were colonies for longer. Palm oil and the tree it comes from is of African origin and product, yet the worlds biggest producers/exporters are in Asia. Started from trees given in diplomatic exchange in the 50's and 60's.

ScumLord · 24-11-2011 01:25PM

Johro wrote: »

I've been donating money for famine victims for years now,

Dude, the famine ended hundreds of years ago, that charity is taking you for a mug.

starbelgrade · 24-11-2011 01:44PM

Johro wrote: »

Sure. What though? Coz in the meantime, while we work it out, or not, or pretend to, or ignore it, children are dying. I don't see anything wrong with finding a useful charitable organisation who you know do good work that actually helps these people even in a small way, and give them like, a fiver a month. Everybody can afford that. Money goes so far over there. If it saves one child it's f#ckin worth it ain't it?

A fiver a month might help save one child's life & while that might seem worthwhile, it's a short term fix to a long term problem.

But the question still remains - does foreign aid & charity work in African countries actually help the problem, or does it actually help worsen the problem?

It seems no matter how much money you throw at this problem, that it has no positive effect. The only conclusion that you can draw from this is that money is not actually the solution & more than likely is actually part of the problem.

24-11-2011 01:48PM

I know Im going to be lambasted over this, but Feck it, I really couldnt give a rats A*** at this stage.

Ive a pain in my nether regions from others looking for money .
Myself and my family are at breaking point right now with bills. I worried sick about so many things, mainly because of lack of money. There are so many people around this country who are sick to their stomach with worry, who cant sleep at night because they cant dress or feed their children for christmas never mind toys.

When I have had money, Ive given what I could to charities.So have many many Irish people, in fact we've been damned good to the world when it needed it. Now when many of us are at breaking point, Im sick to the teeth of others trying to put me on a guilt trip to help others. Some of these Charities are paying staff 15 to 18 euro per hour, Thats IS NOT where I want my doationto go, if I do give I want it to feed someone hungry, not keep a chugger in Duffle coats and Converse.

For me, for the next few years until hopefully things get better, Im sticking to the mantra of Charity begining at home. My charites this year are Simon and Focus Ireland. Any extra penny I get will go to them, not to some foreign land, where the problem seems never ending because of the corruption in some of these countries, where their leaders are living in fantastic wealthy conditions buying selling arms and diamonds to finance wars.

How dare anyone try to make me or others feel bad about opting out of filling the Coffers of these countries.

I know children are dying over there, but while we maybe dont get children dying of hunger in this country, yet, we have serious poverty problems through out Ireland now that need to be addressed.

Rant over. Yis can lambast me all you want, Im beyond caring at this point. Ive enough of my own worries.

Madam · 24-11-2011 01:56PM

Well said Jake1! We have the problem of who the hell to give to when we get around 6 or 7 charities a month not just coming to the door and cold calling but it's the bags others leave (another 4 or 5 - some of a dubious nature) it has to stop somewhere!

I give to two local charities here in Glasgow, if I want I may make a donation to others if I see them out with their cans(or not if its not something I find deserving)!

Dudess · 24-11-2011 04:07PM

Slydice wrote: »

We certainly don't look like we do...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZWZ6N-6tc

It struck me when I saw that video last month that 30,000 children died in 3 months because of the Famine in Africa.

But since then, what the **** did we care? Nah **** it, we give a **** about our taxes... we care about our dole... we want our rent paid... and then the price of getting locked on booze?

I hadn't even noticed it before that video and haven't seen anything else happen about it on the news since.

The only thing on the wikipedia article is that Kenya invaded Somalia to save some western tourists. wow

Round of applause for us all and lets take a bow (Especialy you smart ass reply number 1).

Any further commentary OP? I love the "we" stuff, which would logically include you. Why the hell shouldn't people care about their own personal wellbeing? And you'd swear we were all obsessed with getting dole, rent paid etc. Why do you assume people here aren't giving aid? Those celebs on the vid shouting indignantly seem like ***** - such hypocrites.

I wouldn't like to become completely jaded about the tragedy of famine, but I agree teaching people to help themselves would be of better use long-term than just throwing money at them.

Wibbs · 24-11-2011 04:57PM

+1. And before the droolers drive by, this is nothing to do with "race". People of African extraction the world over(including within Africa) have added to the world we live in today. Great doctors, statesmen and women, entrepreneurs, inventors etc. The list is long and it goes back in history too. It's the culture of too many African states and peoples that's the problem. A culture fostered by tribal ballsology, handouts, corruption and blaming others rather than looking in the mirror closer to home. Actually we can see some of ourselves standing behind them in the same mirror. By turning emergency aid into something ongoing the west has screwed up a couple of African generations just as much, indeed I'd argue, more than the relatively brief colonial influence. The aforementioned Congo a good example. The country was left with one of the best infrastructures on the African continent when the Belgians left and rather than capitalise on that and their vast natural resources the place was left, nay actively made to go to rack and ruin.

How would I solve it? [unpopular opinion] re "colonise" places like the Congo with the UN with a large chunk of other African forces and civil servants making up the numbers. Tap into the natural resources and get those resources ot to the wider world of trade and business. Use the money to pay for infrastructure and pay for education for the Congalese. Foster it up to a point where they're running the place themselves in a democratic way. Leave. If the world doesn't do this the Chinese or similar will. Indeed the Chinese are already making inroads in Africa and not in such a good way.[/unpopular opinion]

Joshua Jones · 24-11-2011 05:12PM

You shouldn't be surprised by the vitriol OP.

"People with do anything, no matter how absurd, to avoid facing their own souls"-Carl Jung

inmyday · 24-11-2011 05:24PM

Jake1 wrote: »

I know Im going to be lambasted over this, but Feck it, I really couldnt give a rats A*** at this stage.

Ive a pain in my nether regions from others looking for money .
Myself and my family are at breaking point right now with bills. I worried sick about so many things, mainly because of lack of money. There are so many people around this country who are sick to their stomach with worry, who cant sleep at night because they cant dress or feed their children for christmas never mind toys.

Someone said this to the op, so I think you should do the same. Cancel your broadband, sell your computer. So thats one less bill and less worrying.

I really dont understand why some people are breaking point with bills and worried sick about so many things but have time to come onto boards and have a rant.
It doesnt make sense to me.

Jesus Shaves · 24-11-2011 05:29PM

inmyday wrote: »

Someone said this to the op, so I think you should do the same. Cancel your broadband, sell your computer. So thats one less bill and less worrying.

I really dont understand why some people are breaking point with bills and worried sick about so many things but have time to come onto boards and have a rant.
It doesnt make sense to me.

I really don't understand how people think they have the right to come on boards and disparage people and TELL them how to run their lives.
It doesn't make sense to me.

Wibbs · 24-11-2011 05:33PM

Joshua Jones wrote: »

You shouldn't be surprised by the vitriol OP.

"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, to avoid facing their own souls"-Carl Jung

I can face my own soul pretty easily thanks very much. No anything required. What I can't face is throwing good resources after bad so we're in the same position in another African generations time and another generation of hand wringing celebs are whining about aid. Again. As Einstein said, the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result. That's what the world has been doing and that's absurd. What's beyond absurd in the case of Ireland is borrowing money we don't have, to send over a half billion euros in overseas aid. That's eye swivelingly daft.

inmyday wrote: »

Someone said this to the op, so I think you should do the same. Cancel your broadband, sell your computer. So thats one less bill and less worrying.

I really dont understand why some people are breaking point with bills and worried sick about so many things but have time to come onto boards and have a rant.
It doesnt make sense to me.

Cheaper than a shrink. Plus if they've signed up for the year cancelling it mid flow won't make much diff. Computers once bought are cheap to run, especially laptops. Lightbulb levels of power. It wouldn't be close to giving up a pack a day ciggie habit or selling the car. Being frugal is one thing and a good thing too, going down the route of hair shirtism for the sake of it is not.

Joshua Jones · 24-11-2011 05:38PM

“Deep down, below the surface of the average man's conscience, he hears a voice whispering, "There is something not right," no matter how much his rightness is supported by public opinion or moral code.”-Jung

--Kaiser-- · 24-11-2011 05:45PM

Joshua Jones wrote: »

“Deep down, below the surface of the average man's conscience, he hears a voice whispering, "There is something not right," no matter how much his rightness is supported by public opinion or moral code.”-Jung

So, what do you do for charity that explains all the pontificating? Or do you just donate money to charity organisations not knowing how much of your money is actually used for charity or where the money is going? Becasue if you really cared about African people you'd be out there helping them, not simply buying peace of mind by blindly donating

Who gives a f****** about the children?

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