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Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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Comments

  • #1652
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    flahavaj wrote: »
    If they "believe" they have enough evidence then why not just charge him? Gotta love the tabloids.
    Like the one you conveniently liked to use that claimed Suarez used the word Negro?


  • #1653
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    flahavaj wrote: »
    He is under such scrutiny because he is alleged to have used a racist slur. The fact that he hasn't used one before isn't really a very strong defence.

    I doubt anyone genuinely believes him to be a fully signed up KKK member of anything.

    Reminds me of Wenger after the Eduardo incident. He was talking about the "he's not that type of player, he has never done this before" response from Birmingham and said do we say the same thing when somebody murders someone for the first time. :pac:

    Anyway, I don't see anybody here alleging that Suarez is a full blown racist. How could we? We don't know the man. He could be the least racist person alive. He could well be a horrible racist. We don't know. All we can go on is the very, very little pieces of evidence we have. In reality, we should wait until the verdict and more evidence may be released at that stage.

    BTW on a wider note, videos of him at Ajax or wherever are hardly conclusive proof that he is not a racist.


  • #1654
    Blatter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,832 ✭✭✭✭Blatter


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Someone suggests last night that it could be the FA making noise about this to distract away from captain England .

    Now I dont believe that for a sec as I know what the England FA are ,and aren't, but destroying one players cred to preserve another's is not something I have them down as .
    But what's the delay in the Terry case ...surely he can't walk with the video evidence etc ??

    Or am I naive to be waiting to hear his charge any day now ?

    FA said they won't comment until the police investigation is over in that case.

    I have no real doubt that Terry will be charged by the FA.


  • #1655
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Someone suggests last night that it could be the FA making noise about this to distract away from captain England .

    Now I dont believe that for a sec as I know what the England FA are ,and aren't, but destroying one players cred to preserve another's is not something I have them down as .
    But what's the delay in the Terry case ...surely he can't walk with the video evidence etc ??

    Or am I naive to be waiting to hear his charge any day now ?

    To be fair to the FA they have said they wouldn't comment until the Met have completed their investigation


  • #1656
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Someone suggests last night that it could be the FA making noise about this to distract away from captain England .

    Now I dont believe that for a sec as I know what the England FA are ,and aren't, but destroying one players cred to preserve another's is not something I have them down as .
    But what's the delay in the Terry case ...surely he can't walk with the video evidence etc ??

    Or am I naive to be waiting to hear his charge any day now ?

    The Terry case is as convenient a distraction for some of Suarez' defenders as the Suarez case is for Terry's tbh. The Terry case happened well after the Suarez one - if it takes the same time for charges to be brought in that case as then maybe there migt be cause for complaint. Otherwise it looks an awful like clutching at straws to me.


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  • #1657
    Thanx 4 The Fish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    ALL - STOP THE SILLY ONE-UPMANSHIP AND DISCUSS THE ISSUES ONLY OR THE THREAD WILL BE CLOSED.


  • #1658
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    parker kent wrote: »
    Reminds me of Wenger after the Eduardo incident. He was talking about the "he's not that type of player, he has never done this before" response from Birmingham and said do we say the same thing when somebody murders someone for the first time. :pac:

    Anyway, I don't see anybody here alleging that Suarez is a full blown racist. How could we? We don't know the man. He could be the least racist person alive. He could well be a horrible racist. We don't know. All we can go on is the very, very little pieces of evidence we have. In reality, we should wait until the verdict and more evidence may be released at that stage.

    BTW on a wider note, videos of him at Ajax or wherever are hardly conclusive proof that he is not a racist.

    I agree with this. As are the videos of Suarez biting someone evidence he is a racist as has been used. ( not by most i might add)

    the fact is nobody knows what evidence the FA actually have


  • #1659
    amiable
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,206 ✭✭✭✭amiable


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/17/uruguay-embassy-liverpool-luis-suarez?CMP=twt_gu
    Luis Suarez will have the backing of the Uruguayan football association to help Luis Suárez fight the allegations of racial abuse that have left him open to a long ban and reinforced Kenny Dalglish's view that the authorities are threatening to "walk all over us".

    Suárez, who denies the allegations and will plead not guilty, returned from international duty to go straight into talks with Dalglish, Liverpool's manager, about the FA's decision to charge him. Dalglish reiterated that the striker has the club's backing and has been informed that the Uruguayan authorities believe he is innocent. Officials in Montevideo want the help of the Uruguay embassy in London to back Suárez's argument that the words Patrice Evra reported would not be considered offensive in parts of South America.

    The semantics will be crucial to the issue, with Dalglish maintaining his view that the player does not deserve to face FA charges of using "abusive and insulting words" including "a reference to the ethnic origin and colour or race" of the Senegal-born Evra.

    "I don't think there is any doubt that any player at this football club who finds themselves in a bit of a bad time is always going to be well looked after by the people here," Dalglish said. "That is a given for this club."

    The Liverpool manager, repeatedly citing the club's statement that are "fully supportive of Luis", wants the process to be completed "quickly but correctly", and there was a clear sense of a siege mentality building behind the scenes at Anfield.

    Dalglish, prickly and keeping his answers deliberately short, has already railed against what he considers to be a string of contentious refereeing decisions against his team and has been incensed by the "disgraceful" scheduling that sees them play a Carling Cup quarter-final against Chelsea on 29 November, only 48 hours after their Premier League game against Manchester City. The Suárez issue has merely compounded Dalglish's view that Liverpool are not getting any help from the authorities.

    "Most of the time you don't want to say anything but, if you don't say anything, they'll walk all over you," he said. "They might still walk all over us anyway but you've got to justify yourself, you've got to have an opinion and you've got to make a statement of a belief you've got


  • #1660
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    parker kent wrote: »

    BTW on a wider note, videos of him at Ajax or wherever are hardly conclusive proof that he is not a racist.

    Wasn't supposed to be .

    I was just trying to show to the unfamiliar how popular he was at his former club Ajax who filled a stadium mid season to say their goodbyes .

    Someone mentioned in the post previous about his 5yrs at Ajax .

    Problem ?


  • #1661
    Le King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    mixednuts wrote: »
    This crossed my mind aswell but where are the previous incidents ? Surely it would have happened before .
    Plenty of black players in Holland .

    Character references ? ..The Ajax supporters and management gave him a send off like I never seen before .
    He was so well liked .Surely if he was a racist bigot it would have surfaced in his 5yrs there ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGffhRVhC-Q



    Really is a weird case this .

    I don't really see what relevance that is. If we are going to go down that road would it not be relevant to note that Ajax fans are well known in The Netherlands to sing about the bombing in Rotterdam and wear t-shirts such as this:

    afca.jpg

    Regardless of how irrelevant both of our points may be, Ajax, as a club, shouldn't be held up in the name of good for trying to prove a point, quite the opposite, in fact.

    Also, just because he wasn't "found out" to be racist there, doesn't make him not a racist.

    Everybody has a certain element of bigotry to them. But, to racially abuse a fellow professional is nothing short of a disgrace and anybody who is found guilty of such an act should be sanctioned heavily.


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  • #1662
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Again the first question I'd ask there was had he used it on a black player?

    It would surprise me if he had used it on a black player, with no inside knowledge of Uruguayan slang and the matter of racist connotations hadn't arisen before.

    He also said in the interview that it was something United players called him. So I think that rules out Negro!

    Negrito, hard to know. With footballers God knows!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1663
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    amiable wrote: »
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/17/uruguay-embassy-liverpool-luis-suarez?CMP=twt_gu

    If Liverpool know (and knew all along) that Suarez said Negrito to Evra, why did they call for Evra to be punished if Suarez was cleared when the alegations first surfaced?


  • #1664
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Le King wrote: »
    I don't really see what relevance that is. If we are going to go down that road would it not be relevant to note that Ajax fans are well known in The Netherlands to sing about the bombing in Rotterdam and wear t-shirts such as this:

    afca.jpg

    Regardless of how irrelevant both of our points may be, Ajax, as a club, shouldn't be held up in the name of good for trying to prove a point, quite the opposite, in fact.

    Also, just because he wasn't "found out" to be racist there, doesn't make him not a racist.

    Everybody has a certain element of bigotry to them. But, to racially abuse a fellow professional is nothing short of a disgrace and anybody who is found guilty of such an act should be sanctioned heavily.


    Oh sweet Jesus .

    Goodnight .


  • #1665
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    K-9 wrote: »
    He also said in the interview that it was something United players called him. So I think that rules out Negro!

    Negrito, hard to know. With footballers God knows!

    How would he possibly know what United players call Evra? Struck me as an odd statement at the time.


  • #1666
    parker kent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Wasn't supposed to be .

    I was just trying to show to the unfamiliar how popular he was at his former club Ajax who filled a stadium mid season to say their goodbyes .

    Someone mentioned in the post previous about his 5yrs at Ajax .

    Problem ?

    The "problem" as such, is that it is not relevant at all. So he was liked at Ajax? Brilliant. Many racists, homophobes, anti-semites etc are loved until the mask slips. Look at Michael Richards, Mel Gibson etc.

    For the record, I am not saying Suarez is a racist. I'm just saying that being popular at Ajax is not really relevant. You said "Surely if he was a racist bigot it would have surfaced in his 5yrs there". Well no, it would not have to have surfaced there. Many racists or bigots go undetected for years.


  • #1667
    Le King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    mixednuts wrote: »
    Oh sweet Jesus .

    Goodnight .

    1) Make a bollocks point [✔]
    2) Stomp your feet and leave the discussion [✔]


  • #1668
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    parker kent wrote: »
    The "problem" as such, is that it is not relevant at all. So he was liked at Ajax? Brilliant. Many racists, homophobes, anti-semites etc are loved until the mask slips. Look at Michael Richards, Mel Gibson etc.

    For the record, I am not saying Suarez is a racist. I'm just saying that being popular at Ajax is not really relevant. You said "Surely if he was a racist bigot it would have surfaced in his 5yrs there". Well no, it would not have to have surfaced there. Many racists or bigots go undetected for years.

    OK last time
    For those of you wading in mid discussion and taking things out of context ...

    My post was a direct reply to the previous one about his 5yrs at Ajax.


  • #1669
    Leiva
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Leiva


    Le King wrote: »
    1) Make a bollocks point [✔]
    2) Stomp your feet and leave the discussion [✔]

    Read post #1668 especially the second line.

    Goodnight again

    /stomp stomp .


  • #1670
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    mixednuts wrote: »
    OK last time
    For those of you wading in mid discussion and taking things out of context ...

    My post was a direct reply to the previous one about his 5yrs at Ajax.

    Even in the context of the previous post about his time at Ajax it was a pretty crap point, as described in both mine and Blatter's near-identical replies to it....


  • #1671
    Le King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭Le King


    Blatter wrote: »
    Another interesting question is how culturally accepted the word negrito is in Holland as Suarez spent the guts of 5 years living over there. I'm guessing it wouldn't be taken well by black people(from white people anyway) over there. If that is the case, then Suarez really should have known better. If he said it of course.
    mixednuts wrote: »
    This crossed my mind aswell but where are the previous incidents ? Surely it would have happened before .
    Plenty of black players in Holland .

    Character references ? ..The Ajax supporters and management gave him a send off like I never seen before .
    He was so well liked .Surely if he was a racist bigot it would have surfaced in his 5yrs there ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGffhRVhC-Q



    Really is a weird case this .
    mixednuts wrote: »
    OK last time
    For those of you wading in mid discussion and taking things out of context ...

    My post was a direct reply to the previous one about his 5yrs at Ajax.

    I would only construe that as a "direct reply" by you hitting the reply button under Blatter's post. That had f--k all of a relevance to his point.


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  • #1672
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    flahavaj wrote: »
    How would he possibly know what United players call Evra? Struck me as an odd statement at the time.

    Unless he's heard a United player saying it during the match.

    It is odd, but these are footballers.

    Which is also why I think bringing in what some Central American politician had to apologise to Obama over is a bit too pc. You just can't expect political standards of political correctness on a football pitch!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1673
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    K-9 wrote: »
    Unless he's heard a United player saying it during the match.

    Of course. Though I'm not sure how likely any of the squad are to be even aware that what normally would be considered a racial slur actually means "buddy" in Uruguyuan vernacular - let alone actually say it to him!!!

    As I said, struck me as odd at the time.


  • #1674
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    mixednuts wrote: »
    This crossed my mind aswell but where are the previous incidents ? Surely it would have happened before .
    Plenty of black players in Holland .

    Character references ? ..The Ajax supporters and management gave him a send off like I never seen before .
    He was so well liked .Surely if he was a racist bigot it would have surfaced in his 5yrs there ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGffhRVhC-Q



    Really is a weird case this .
    This post is all sorts of crazy. You can't honestly believe this? Like seriously? Fans of football club are very fond of their best footballer for quite a few years. Therefore he must not be a racist.

    Actually a decent portion of the posts in this thread fall under the same category of absolute dreamland venturing. Trying to make any sort of judgement of this lad's personality is ridiculous.


  • #1675
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Gus Poyet has come out in defence of Suarez and accuses Evra of "crying like a baby".

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/17/gus-poyet-luis-suarez-racism

    Just because Poyet was called names in Spain does that make it ok for Suarez to do the same in England.
    I like Poyet but his comments were just plain stupid.


  • #1676
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    flahavaj wrote: »
    Of course. Though I'm not sure how likely any of the squad are to be even aware that what normally would be considered a racial slur actually means "buddy" in Uruguyuan vernacular - let alone actually say it to him!!!

    As I said, struck me as odd at the time.

    But if he sees Negrito as a term like buddy or pal, it makes sense.

    That's where the Pacheco tweet comes in. Danni felt comfortable enough to tweet it so it mustn't be that objectionable to some.

    I suspect this is going to be Suarez's argument which could be backed by the Uruguayan authorities!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1677
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    K-9 wrote: »
    But if he sees Negrito as a term like buddy or pal, it makes sense.

    That's where the Pacheco tweet comes in. Danni felt comfortable enough to tweet it so it mustn't be that objectionable to some.

    I suspect this is going to be Suarez's argument which could be backed by the Uruguayan authorities!

    As in he heard the United players calling him "buddy" so he thought it was fair game to say "Negrito"?


  • #1678
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    Gus Poyet wrote: »
    I played football for seven years in Spain and was called everything because I was from South America, and I never went out crying like a baby
    This sort of racist sympathising stuff really needs to be stamped out with fines and bans. Whether Suarez is innocent or guilty or not Poyet should face punishment over this.


  • #1679
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    flahavaj wrote: »
    As in he heard the United players calling him "buddy" so he thought it was fair game to say "Negrito"?

    If he sees it as a term of endearment, well it is logical.

    Again I amn't saying this is true. He just needs to create an element of doubt. I think it's there.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1680
    flahavaj
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,235 ✭✭✭✭flahavaj


    zerks wrote: »
    Gus Poyet has come out in defence of Suarez and accuses Evra of "crying like a baby".

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/nov/17/gus-poyet-luis-suarez-racism

    Just because Poyet was called names in Spain does that make it ok for Suarez to do the same in England.
    I like Poyet but his comments were just plain stupid.

    He's not really helping his friend with that little outburst is he?

    As a side issue - his general stance on racial abuse - that players should just get on with it is pretty awful. I'd hate to be one of his black players if I got called a n*gger on the pitch on Saturday. Who would you turn to?


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  • #1681
    CSF
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,424 ✭✭✭✭CSF


    flahavaj wrote: »
    He's not really helping his friend with that little outburst is he?

    As a side issue - his general stance on racial abuse - that players should just get on with it is pretty awful. I'd hate to be one of his black players if I got called a n*gger on the pitch on Saturday. Who would you turn to?
    Definitely. Poyet should be in serious trouble for this. No point having kick out racism campaigns in grounds if you're going to have brainless managers coming out with ****e like this. Will never respect Poyet again.


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