Do the Irish not like authority/rules/laws?

AudreyHepburn · 16-11-2011 04:43PM #1

As a regular poster on Boards I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the Irish simply don’t want to live in a society where there are rules and authority bodies to enforce them. Not one day goes by when there aren’t threads on here complaining about corrupt politicians, thuggish Gardai, and now lazy soldiers. It seems to me that we as a people just don’t like authority and rules and the enforcement of the law and we would rather live in a society where we can run amok, break the rules and not be persecuted for it. And we use excuses like ‘The Gardai are dumb thugs’ or ‘the government are greedy and corrupt’ to justify it.

What do you think? Do we really think so little of our authorities or do we just not like rules and regulations?

Ghandee · 16-11-2011 04:44PM

Up the Ra!

Galtee · 16-11-2011 04:45PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

As a regular poster on Boards I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the Irish simply don’t want to live in a society where there are rules and authority bodies to enforce them. Not one day goes by when there aren’t threads on here complaining about corrupt politicians, thuggish Gardai, and now lazy soldiers. It seems to me that we as a people just don’t like authority and rules and the enforcement of the law and we would rather live in a society where we can run amok, break the rules and not be persecuted for it. And we use excuses like ‘The Gardai are dumb thugs’ or ‘the government are greedy and corrupt’ to justify it.

What do you think? Do we really think so little of our authorities or do we just not like rules and regulations?

In my experience, if you give respect you get it back.

who the fug · 16-11-2011 04:45PM

Ghandee wrote: »

Up the Ra!

Royal Academy

Back to the opening poster, we be picky about what laws apply to us

ejmaztec · 16-11-2011 04:48PM

It's the "Dumb Insolence" gene, which developed over 800 years, and didn't disappear after the British took off.

mickydoomsux · 16-11-2011 04:49PM

We as a nation have a hard-on for the underdog. We always root for "de little man" to get one up on all forms of authority, even if they are in the wrong.

AudreyHepburn · 16-11-2011 04:52PM

Galtee wrote: »

In my experience, if you give respect you get it back.

Agreed 100%......so why show so little respect for those in authority and then expect them to treat us like royalty?

It works both ways surely.

Wattle · 16-11-2011 04:56PM

If their taking the piss and not doing their jobs properly why should we accept it?

Galtee · 16-11-2011 04:56PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Agreed 100%......so why show so little respect for those in authority and then expect them to treat us like royalty?

It works both ways surely.

Yes, except they disrespected their public first by abusing their position in government so when they start respecting the people again and stop feeding us a load of contradictions then the people I'm sure will give back respect with the exception of the minority who will never respect anyone but this mentality is not confined to Ireland.

karma_ · 16-11-2011 04:58PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

As a regular poster on Boards I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the Irish simply don’t want to live in a society where there are rules and authority bodies to enforce them. Not one day goes by when there aren’t threads on here complaining about corrupt politicians, thuggish Gardai, and now lazy soldiers. It seems to me that we as a people just don’t like authority and rules and the enforcement of the law and we would rather live in a society where we can run amok, break the rules and not be persecuted for it. And we use excuses like ‘The Gardai are dumb thugs’ or ‘the government are greedy and corrupt’ to justify it.

What do you think? Do we really think so little of our authorities or do we just not like rules and regulations?

AH really isn't representative of society at large to be fair.

CardBordWindow · 16-11-2011 05:00PM

Who are you to be telling me what my views on authority are!!?
YOU'RE ONE OF THEM!

Dotrel · 16-11-2011 05:01PM

The Irish are a lawless bunch. You only have to stand at some traffic light to see the mentality in action.

mikom · 16-11-2011 05:03PM

Get treated like a child.
Fed fairy stories.
Told what to do, and how to do it by your nanny.

It's no wonder so many people act like children.

TheZohanS · 16-11-2011 05:04PM

Ah the Irish, bunch of Mr. Potato heads.

Corvo · 16-11-2011 05:04PM

I dont think thats the case at all.

In fairness, the authorities you mentioned (Gardai) arent exactly angels (not all of them of course, but a good few) and a few of us have seen this first hand.

Mix that with the fact that a lot of people are struggling financially, the general unprofessionalism of these people and the nice chunk of cash they suck from the economy, then sometimes we just like to lose the head!

MungBean · 16-11-2011 05:05PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Agreed 100%......so why show so little respect for those in authority and then expect them to treat us like royalty?

It works both ways surely.

Theres so little respect for those in authority because they act as those they are beyond the law. The clue is in your OP. "corrupt" "thuggish" People have no issue with authority they have issue with people abusing it.

Millicent · 16-11-2011 05:08PM

I actually think you've a point with this. I was talking to someone who was telling a story about fiddling their taxes. Their justification for this was that a local accountant was fucking people over with the tax man, dobbing people in on the quiet.

I said to them, "But sure, that's what's wrong with this country. Everyone who does something wrong here justifies it with the fact that someone else is doing it. Whether it be Mick down the road, or the government, or the church."

They didn't get the connection though. I was baffled. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind and all that. Chancing your arm cos everyone else is doing it leaves us as a nation with one arm... or something. :pac:

ShooterSF · 16-11-2011 05:08PM

I would be. I consider myself rather liberal and hate how much the state sticks it's nose in so much. Though I'm not anti-authoritarian for the sake of it. I think we should have laws and they should be enforced, just not as many as we have.

And no I don't think Irish people are that way in general or a liberal political party would have taken off by now.

Snakeblood · 16-11-2011 05:08PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

As a regular poster on Boards I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the Irish simply don’t want to live in a society where there are rules and authority bodies to enforce them. Not one day goes by when there aren’t threads on here complaining about corrupt politicians, thuggish Gardai, and now lazy soldiers. It seems to me that we as a people just don’t like authority and rules and the enforcement of the law and we would rather live in a society where we can run amok, break the rules and not be persecuted for it. And we use excuses like ‘The Gardai are dumb thugs’ or ‘the government are greedy and corrupt’ to justify it.

What do you think? Do we really think so little of our authorities or do we just not like rules and regulations?

But the government were greedy and corrupt. They currently appear to be again with this backtracking from stamping out cronyism. Like. Has it occurred to you that the people complaining might be right, that there are rules for one set of society and another rules for other groups? That people are sick of subsidising things they can't afford, or that are to the detriment of their freedoms?

I mean. I'm not saying: Sack all security forces\Fire all public servants\kill everybody, but do you think on some level, some ill feeling might be justified?

Fratton Fred · 16-11-2011 05:13PM

My sweeping generalisation of the Irish people (as this is After Hours and we can make sweeping generalisations based on a single observation) is that the Irish love rules and regulations and get almost anal about people sticking to those rules.

Everyone except themselves of course, because obviously the rules only apply to other people.

Fire away.

AudreyHepburn · 16-11-2011 05:14PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

But the government were greedy and corrupt. They currently appear to be again with this backtracking from stamping out cronyism. Like. Has it occurred to you that the people complaining might be right, that there are rules for one set of society and another rules for other groups? That people are sick of subsidising things they can't afford, or that are to the detriment of their freedoms?

I mean. I'm not saying: Sack all security forces\Fire all public servants\kill everybody, but do you think on some level, some ill feeling might be justified?

Of course some ill feeling is justified and understandable....I share some of it myself.

My problem is the out-and-out hatred directed at the groups I mentioned. There is no need for it imo and it certainly isn't helping matters.

Not every politician is corrupt, not every Garda is a thug, not every soldier is lazy and to deny this simple fact is naive and does no-one any good.

I just have issue with this mentality that everyone but us is to blame for our problems.

karenharmlem · 16-11-2011 05:14PM

we're very special. That or it has somrthing to do with our history

stovelid · 16-11-2011 05:16PM

I hate all these generalisations that go on about nationalities, including ours but there is a germ of truth in this.

I think that maybe in countires like ours where there is corruption and clientelism, you get an eroison in civic repsonsibility. You see it everywhere even in the micro-level in Irish society. I think the attitude of citizens feeds back into the running of the country: whether it's on a prosaic day-to-day level or the politicians we elect.

For example, I'm involved in a local community association where I live and since I have been involved, I've been utterly flabergasted at the sheer selfihsness and cunty behaviour of most people when expected to think of community as opposed to themselves. Not talking about obvious badness (most are sound personally) but I mean more a near-inability to conceive of how actions affect the commuinty as a whole, as opoposed to just suiting them.

Trivial I kjnow, but go round a car park tomorrow anywhere in the country and see the amount of people that couldn't even give a crap about the most proasic niceities of parking etiquete.

When I lived in Germany, for example, I thought it seemed a little different: people seemed to grasp the concept a bit more and maybe that was to do with the society they had created.

Obviously, you're on dodgy ground trying to generalise though. I'm sure there are many exceptions to the rule in both countires.

Snakeblood · 16-11-2011 05:18PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course some ill feeling is justified and understandable....I share some of it myself.

My problem is the out-and-out hatred directed at the groups I mentioned. There is no need for it imo and it certainly isn't helping matters.

Not every politician is corrupt, not every Garda is a thug, not every soldier is lazy and to deny this simple fact is naive and does no-one any good.

I just have issue with this mentality that everyone but us is to blame for our problems.

Ok. Well, I'm with you there. Not everyone is a grubbing swine in it for themselves.

Fratton Fred · 16-11-2011 05:19PM

karenharmlem wrote: »

we're very special. That or it has somrthing to do with our history

I was talking to an Irishman in London a couple of months ago. He summed it up as this.

The Irish has spent 800 "Sticking it to the Man", unfortunately, no one has realised that they are now "The Man" and not a faceless someone in London.

OldGoat · 16-11-2011 05:21PM

Ah sure it's all blather and hot air.
We bitch and complain and bemoan and belittle authority figures, not just Ireland's figures but those of every nation, cos it's great craic to do so. It gives us something to talk to the taxi drivers about.

Getting us Irish up off their arses to actually go and do something about the corruption is another thing altogether because, at that point, someone has had to assume a position of authority/leadership and then they just become targets for us to point and laugh at and belittle in conversations with the taxi man again.

billybudd · 16-11-2011 05:21PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

As a regular poster on Boards I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the Irish simply don’t want to live in a society where there are rules and authority bodies to enforce them. Not one day goes by when there aren’t threads on here complaining about corrupt politicians, thuggish Gardai, and now lazy soldiers. It seems to me that we as a people just don’t like authority and rules and the enforcement of the law and we would rather live in a society where we can run amok, break the rules and not be persecuted for it. And we use excuses like ‘The Gardai are dumb thugs’ or ‘the government are greedy and corrupt’ to justify it.

What do you think? Do we really think so little of our authorities or do we just not like rules and regulations?

The majority do respect those institutions look at other countries and like Greece & Italy to see that as a nation maybe we are too tolerable to these.

AudreyHepburn · 16-11-2011 05:21PM

stovelid wrote: »

Obviously, you're on dodgy ground trying to generalise though. I'm sure there are many exceptions to the rule in both countires.

The generalisating was genuinely unintended but apologies for any offence caused!

steve22 · 16-11-2011 05:22PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

What do you think? Do we really think so little of our authorities or do we just not like rules and regulations?

I suppose you could say that nobody particularly likes rules and regulations unless there of personal benefit somehow… a bad rule for one could be good for another.
Either way, as far as I can see, we don’t like certain things in this country but we’re going to do f**k all about it and hope that it sorts itself out eventually…. myself included.

sensibleken · 16-11-2011 05:22PM

We're the wild guys who your daddy wont like baby. we play by out own rules and dont care bout nothin' but our motorcycles. The big countries want us and the small countries want to be us. BRRRRRMMMMMMM!!!!!

al28283 · 16-11-2011 05:22PM

I don't mind authority. I do hate being generalized in these type of threads though

Do the Irish not like authority/rules/laws?

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