Disband the whole f**kin Army NOW !

Naos · 16-11-2011 10:40AM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Really ?

They couldn't be arsed clearing the snow last year without looking for more money. Mercenaries would probably be cheaper.

They don't get paid to shovel snow, they're paid to defend us should we need it.

As far as I know, we've not been invaded in the past 100 years or so, so in my opinion they're doing a pretty good job

Wicklowrider · 16-11-2011 10:43AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm going with Vanuatu on this one. Failing that, the Marshall Islands.
Look, quit your carping. So what if Irishmen chose to be mercenaries all over the place? It means nothing. They got paid for their time and effort.

Like the implication in your post that the British don't actually patrol our waters, shelter us with their nuclear umbrella, conduct special ops on our behalf (and if you doubt this point, inquire from the Gardai who discovered Al-qaeda's no. 2 living in South Dublin because it wasn't them).
The bottom line is the only reason we have an army (sorree, defence forces, though we don't defend against anything because no one's attacking us) is to go abroad and showboat. It's like the foreign aid programme - hubris we can no longer afford. Scrap the lot of it.

I typed one word in bold type. You missed it.

Cookie_Monster · 16-11-2011 10:47AM

Naos wrote: »

They don't get paid to shovel snow, they're paid to defend us should we need it.

what about defending us from mother nature?

Cavehill Red · 16-11-2011 10:54AM

Wicklowrider wrote: »

I typed one word in bold type. You missed it.

No, no you didn't.
You typed one word in capital letters. It was the word 'owed'. And of course, nothing is owed, because those Irish mercenaries were paid by their respective paymasters for the jobs they did, as I said.

Riddle101 · 16-11-2011 10:54AM

I dont' know why people have a large axe to grind with the army, but it's sad that people would actually want to get rid of the army altogether.

BTW for the people who think our Defence Forces do nothing. Our Defences work overseas on peace keeping and peace enforcing missions. They work close with EU and UN and are at least a viable enough force to provide aid. Why people seem to think the army do nothing is beyond me, but they have a bigger role then a lot of people make out.

For instance, they were instrumental in the Second Liberian War and did a good job in Chad.

Gummy Panda · 16-11-2011 10:56AM

Naos wrote: »

They don't get paid to shovel snow, they're paid to defend us should we need it.

As far as I know, we've not been invaded in the past 100 years or so, so in my opinion they're doing a pretty good job

[url=https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/[/url] has been a great success in deterring foreign forces from invading :pac:

Cavehill Red · 16-11-2011 10:56AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

I dont' know why people have a large axe to grind with the army, but it's sad that people would actually want to get rid of the army altogether.

BTW for the people who think our Defence Forces do nothing. Our Defences work overseas on peace keeping and peace enforcing missions. They work close with EU and UN and are at least a viable enough force to provide aid. Why people seem to think the army do nothing is beyond me, but they have a bigger role then a lot of people make out.

For instance, they were instrumental in the Second Liberian War and did a good job in Chad.

I don't think anyone has said they do nothing. It's just that they do almost nothing HERE, in IRELAND, where people PAY for them in a time of extreme economic need.
We don't need an army. Maybe Liberia or Chad need our army, in which case, they should pay for their services.

16-11-2011 11:01AM

Give the Gardai guns and relevant training. Solves the cash/scumbags in transit problem.

Give the Civil Defence/AFS the training to deal with major weather crises.

I personally don't give a fiddlers about Chad or Lebanon, it is pretty pointless we are there really, there are many other countries that can well afford a peacekeeping force there. We cant.

The force is 9500 strong, a bit of a joke in the scheme of things. Even if we are invaded that amount of personnel would be combat ineffective in a matter of hours anyway.

Riddle101 · 16-11-2011 11:15AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I don't think anyone has said they do nothing. It's just that they do almost nothing HERE, in IRELAND, where people PAY for them in a time of extreme economic need.
We don't need an army. Maybe Liberia or Chad need our army, in which case, they should pay for their services.

They do things here as well, my point is that they have bigger role then people let on. Also I believe Ireland is paid for taking on those missions abroad as well so those overseas mission do bring in some cash.

The force is 9500 strong, a bit of a joke in the scheme of things. Even if we are invaded that amount of personnel would be combat ineffective in a matter of hours anyway.

So what do you think we should do if we were invaded? just lie down and let the invading army roll right over us without so much of a peep. No resistance. Just throw our arms on the ground and surrender. At least the DF would provide some sort of resistance, and as someone already said. If they adopted gurreilla tatics then I think our DF would put up a fight.

Annabella1 · 16-11-2011 11:17AM

There is no doubt that they lost a lot of public goodwill with their 'deafness' claims which cost the taxpayer 100's millions of Euro.

Poccington · 16-11-2011 11:23AM

It always make me chuckle when people start to say disband the DF, swiftly followed by "WE NEED MOAR HOSP!TALS"

Here's an idea, why don't the HSE actually take a stab at proper reform and making savings. We spend a ****ing fortune on Health in this country and they're pissing it away, while the HSE is still pure and utter ****e.

Maybe if more Departments followed the DF's lead of cutting numbers, closing barracks and continually meeting the figures for cuts that we're given, things might look a bit better for us all.

But yeah, disband the one part of the PS who ever made an attempt at reform long before the IMF came knocking on the door and pump whatever money is leftover into the other ineffectual, bloated Departments.

Cavehill Red · 16-11-2011 11:24AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

They do things here as well, my point is that they have bigger role then people let on. Also I believe Ireland is paid for taking on those missions abroad as well so those overseas mission do bring in some cash.

They do next to eff all here. And I'd love to see any figures you've got that show us turning a profit on the foreign missions, because I suspect it costs us an absolute bomb to showboat around the planet like that.

Riddle101 wrote: »

So what do you think we should do if we were invaded? just lie down and let the invading army roll right over us without so much of a peep. No resistance. Just throw our arms on the ground and surrender. At least the DF would provide some sort of resistance, and as someone already said. If they adopted gurreilla tatics then I think our DF would put up a fight.

Seriously, who do you think is going to invade us? We were a colony for 800 years, and a quarter of the country is still under British rule. The only people likely to invade us are the very people who otherwise defend our coastline, monitor terrorists on our behalf and shelter us under their nuclear wing.
And frankly, I hate to break this to you, but they don't want the hassle of having us back, but if they did, they'd be in O'Connell Street by lunchtime.

Poccington · 16-11-2011 11:27AM

Annabella1 wrote: »

There is no doubt that they lost a lot of public goodwill with their 'deafness' claims which cost the taxpayer 100's millions of Euro.

Sorry but it was the Government, or more specifically the DoD, who cost the taxpayer millions with the deafness claims.

For years, soldiers were asking for hearing protection for the troops. DoD wanted to be cheap, told the DF no on countless occassions. Troops even went out and bought their own hearing protection, only to be told if they wore non issued kit, they'd be charged.

Cue lads who spent years firing rifles, mortar's etc. while wearing no hearing protection, suddenly realising their hearing was absolutely bollocksed.

Was there some chancers in amongst all the lads with genuine claims to make? Most certainly. However, those claims stemmed from the DoD trying to pull a fast one and it blew up in their face.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 16-11-2011 11:27AM

Edz87 wrote: »

I personally don't give a fiddlers about Chad or Lebanon, it is pretty pointless we are there really, there are many other countries that can well afford a peacekeeping force there. We cant.

The country MAKES money from the United Nations - in fact I'll make this really easy for you THE COUNTRY GETS PAID TO PROVIDE TROOPS FOR THE MISSIONS, the only mission we've been involved in where we footed the entire bill was Kosovo and maybe Afghanistan (I'm not sure about A'stan).

Now since this is After Hours here's my suggestion.

Disband the army next Monday and arm (that means give weapons to) all the keyboard and COD warriors & let them fvck off over to some God foresaken sh*thole of a war torn country and serve with the same distinction and less of the sacrifice the real soldiers have done.

16-11-2011 11:28AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

So what do you think we should do if we were invaded? just lie down and let the invading army roll right over us without so much of a peep. No resistance. Just throw our arms on the ground and surrender. At least the DF would provide some sort of resistance, and as someone already said. If they adopted gurreilla tatics then I think our DF would put up a fight.

The chances of us being invaded are so slim it is almost not worth commenting on, but I just thought I would make the point that we wouldn't have a hope IF it happened. Which it wont. What probably would happen is that we would be nuked by whoever is fighting the British so they couldn't use us as a tactical base.

Anyway the cases for disbanding the army are strong enough without the conjecture of us being invaded.

Poccington · 16-11-2011 11:28AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

They do next to eff all here. And I'd love to see any figures you've got that show us turning a profit on the foreign missions, because I suspect it costs us an absolute bomb to showboat around the planet like that.

Actually, the UN covers nearly all cost associated with sending Irish troops on UN missions.

Cavehill Red · 16-11-2011 11:29AM

Dominick Bumpy Seal wrote: »

The country MAKES money from the United Nations - in fact I'll make this really easy for you THE COUNTRY GETS PAID TO PROVIDE TROOPS FOR THE MISSIONS, the only mission we've been involved in where we footed the entire bill was Kosovo and maybe Afghanistan (I'm not sure about A'stan).

I'll reiterate my question to you: does the money received exceed the amount of money the defence forces cost? Or is the net result a deficit for the Irish exchequer?

PeterIanStaker · 16-11-2011 11:30AM

Oh wow, an anti DF thread on Boards.:rolleyes:

The defence budget is miniscule compared to the likes of that money furnace the HSE, or other terminally wasteful govt departments.

The DF are held in high regard abroad because of their long and dedicated committment to peacekeeping and peace enforcing. Its a shame that uncle tom keyboard warriors can't see that.

What is people's obsession with shutting dow the DF causing another c.10,500 redundancies anyway?

Cavehill Red · 16-11-2011 11:30AM

Poccington wrote: »

Actually, the UN covers nearly all cost associated with sending Irish troops on UN missions.

That's not what I asked. I asked if the nation turns a profit on the defence forces as a result of this UN income, or is it, as I suspect, actually a massive drain on our resources that we have no need of whatsoever (since private firms can escort cash and they're too good to shovel snow when asked.)

Poccington · 16-11-2011 11:33AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's not what I asked. I asked if the nation turns a profit on the defence forces as a result of this UN income, or is it, as I suspect, actually a massive drain on our resources that we have no need of whatsoever (since private firms can escort cash and they're too good to shovel snow when asked.)

I'm no sure of the exact figures but it's certainly not a massive drain, not even close to one.

Cavehill Red · 16-11-2011 11:34AM

Poccington wrote: »

I'm no sure of the exact figures but it's certainly not a massive drain, not even close to one.

Let's try again.

(UN money) - (Cost of Defence Forces) = positive or negative?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 16-11-2011 11:34AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'll reiterate my question to you: does the money received exceed the amount of money the defence forces cost? Or is the net result a deficit for the Irish exchequer?

I'll be honest and tell you I've no idea, but needless to say it doesn't cost us money to serve abroad.

Now if I can ask you a question now - what have you done for your country?.

Riddle101 · 16-11-2011 11:36AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

They do next to eff all here. And I'd love to see any figures you've got that show us turning a profit on the foreign missions, because I suspect it costs us an absolute bomb to showboat around the planet like that..

Aid to civil power, cash escorts, anti terrorism(I.E Bomb Squad) and security(Prisons etc), Yeah they do f*ck all here.......

Also i don't have the figures but I do believe we are paid something from the UN when we do them.

Seriously, who do you think is going to invade us? We were a colony for 800 years, and a quarter of the country is still under British rule. The only people likely to invade us are the very people who otherwise defend our coastline, monitor terrorists on our behalf and shelter us under their nuclear wing.
And frankly, I hate to break this to you, but they don't want the hassle of having us back, but if they did, they'd be in O'Connell Street by lunchtime

I wasn't saying we would be invaded. it was hypotetical, as people have mentioned the idea of being invaded, and playing down the DF, I was merely pointing out that if they think that, then what else do they think we should do if we were invaded.

16-11-2011 11:37AM

Dominick Bumpy Seal wrote: »

Disband the army next Monday and arm (that means give weapons to) all the keyboard and COD warriors & let them fvck off over to some God foresaken sh*thole of a war torn country and serve with the same distinction and less of the sacrifice the real soldiers have done.

Nope..

How about minding our own business, and use the money we save on services that actually help Irish people.. I would rather extra nurses/gardai/teachers serving with distinction than soldiers patrolling some "God foresaken sh*thole of a war torn country"

Cavehill Red · 16-11-2011 11:39AM

Dominick Bumpy Seal wrote: »

I'll be honest and tell you I've no idea, but needless to say it doesn't cost us money to serve abroad.

Now if I can ask you a question now - what have you done for your country?.

None of your business, mate.
I note you're still evading the question. Clearly the Defence Forces cost us an arm and a leg, which is not remotely covered by UN money.
Now, I can entirely see what they do for OTHER countries, like Chad and wherever. But you tell me, given that no one is invading us, or going to invade us, and if the unlikely event occured where someone was to invade us, the British would be on the scene in seconds, and since they won't shovel snow, and bless them, the nasty bullets make loud bang-bang noises that mean they need tons of extra cash for their poor earsies, you tell me what have the defence forces done for my country? Not for Lebanon, for Ireland, in Ireland.
Because as we know, they're too good to shovel snow, and Securicor can cover the money escorting.

CreepingDeath · 16-11-2011 11:40AM

Dominick Bumpy Seal wrote: »

Disband the army next Monday and arm (that means give weapons to) all the keyboard and COD warriors & let them fvck off over to some God foresaken sh*thole of a war torn country and serve with the same distinction and less of the sacrifice the real soldiers have done.

Should be easy enough with a sufficient number of remote controlled armed drones.

casualhoarder · 16-11-2011 11:45AM

I would imagine that they have to maintain a certain number of troops for the E.U it will be all the european army soon anyway

Celly Smunt · 16-11-2011 11:45AM

infantry to commandos,engineers to the navy holding back a small corps for land vehicles and such.This will wiggle out the wasters.

I have to say,the majority of the Irish army lads i have worked with are hardworking and very knowledgeable in their fields,however,for every one of these i have encountered there is an overweight 35 year old private happily bleeding the army dry.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 16-11-2011 11:46AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

None of your business, mate.
I note you're still evading the question. Clearly the Defence Forces cost us an arm and a leg, which is not remotely covered by UN money.
Now, I can entirely see what they do for OTHER countries, like Chad and wherever. But you tell me, given that no one is invading us, or going to invade us, and if the unlikely event occured where someone was to invade us, the British would be on the scene in seconds, and since they won't shovel snow, and bless them, the nasty bullets make loud bang-bang noises that mean they need tons of extra cash for their poor earsies, you tell me what have the defence forces done for my country? Not for Lebanon, for Ireland, in Ireland.
Because as we know, they're too good to shovel snow, and Securicor can cover the money escorting.

I'm reminded of this;

Now, why don't you go and picket outside the gates of your local barracks - maybe call for its closure - that would make you feel you've made a useful contribution to society

And with that I'm finished with you because I suspect your just trolling, and I won't be brought to your level because you'll only beat me with experience.

Good luck with the picket.

16-11-2011 11:47AM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Should be easy enough with a sufficient number of remote controlled armed drones.

Hey with a bit of tinkering we could use those electronic voting machines to do our bidding!

Someone get Michael Bay on the phone!!

Disband the whole f**kin Army NOW !

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