United Ireland

snafuk35 · 11-11-2011 12:10AM

woodoo wrote: »

Retribution would follow

And then retribution would follow and then retribution would follow and then retribution would follow... etc. etc. etc.

You clearly haven't learned a thing about the Troubles have you?:mad:

the_syco · 15-11-2011 05:20PM

snafuk35 wrote: »

Loyalists would inevitably fight against the Gardaí and Irish Army in the same way that the IRA fought against the RUC and British Army.

Where would they get their funding from? The UK? The IRA were getting their funds from Irish fund-raisers in America during the troubles.

snafuk35 wrote: »

When dead sons and a daughters start coming home in body bags and loyalist car bombs explode in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway and loyalist gangs shoot up border towns the enthusiasm for a United Ireland is going drop into the floor.

When loyalist bombs go off in Dublin, you'll see a huge influx of support for the RIRA to give retribution, which is a bad thing, and I do not want to see happening.

snafuk35 wrote: »

Never mind trying to govern Northern Ireland when the economy in the south has been driven in to the ditch. There's not enough money to keep the 26 running without the help of the ECB/IMF bailout.

Even now, with the 26 counties without money, I have no doubt that the RoI still give the 6 counties money along with money the UK give them. How quick would NI go down the tubes without that money from the UK, I wonder?

snafuk35 wrote: »

keep a handle on the loyalists?

Instead of 3 counties against 3 counties and the RUC and british army, it'd be 29 counties, an army that hates them, a police force that hates them, and the usual terrorists that hate them.

sensibleken · 15-11-2011 05:22PM

Damn, I thought this thread died. Or at least received an appropriate punishment beating.

DeBrugha · 15-11-2011 05:49PM

Places like Derry is more Irish than places in the Republic, for example I've heard Irish a few times in Derry city.

The native dialects of Irish was alive in parts of the north untill the 50s, whereas in the south Irish died out over 300 years ago like Wicklow.

Derry is a decent Irish city, its a shame these Irish people are basically not cared about from the rest of Ireland.

People in the republic look up and see the border, but the Irish nationalists when they look down they see Ireland.

Chuck Stone · 15-11-2011 06:03PM

I find it amusing that 'Never', the stupidest answer, got the highest number of votes. Just goes to show the level of thought that these 'nevurrrs' put into their choices and answers.

al28283 · 15-11-2011 06:22PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I find it amusing that 'Never', the stupidest answer, got the highest number of votes. Just goes to show the level of thought that these 'nevurrrs' put into their choices and answers.

It's the most likely

Chuck Stone · 15-11-2011 06:29PM

al28283 wrote: »

It's the most likely

Never is what people said about Paisley and McGuiness sitting together havin' a laugh in a devolved NI parliament.

Never is what people would have said about Q.E. II Laying a wreath in the GoR and speaking Irish.

'Never' is a very long time and the future is extremely unpredictable.

Choosing 'never' in this example is an emotional reaction rather than a considered one.

St.Spodo · 15-11-2011 06:34PM

Whether it does or doesn't happen is no concern of mine. My only hope that is if it does, there's minimal violence. And as long as we don't have any more of that tribal warfare shít, I'm content with things as they are.

Chuck Stone · 15-11-2011 06:40PM

St.Spodo wrote: »

My only hope that is if it does, there's minimal violence. And as long as we don't have any more of that tribal warfare shít, I'm content with things as they are.

Same here. It's not worth returning to the bad old days.

The unusual thing about a UI would be that Unionists would be a considerable voting block in a UI parliament. SF and Unionists would have similar concerns about Ulster as a region.

Can't even begin to imagine the strange alliances that would form.

al28283 · 15-11-2011 06:42PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Never is what people said about Paisley and McGuiness sitting together havin' a laugh in a devolved NI parliament.

Never is what people would have said about Q.E. II Laying a wreath in the GoR and speaking Irish.

'Never' is a very long time and the future is extremely unpredictable.

Choosing 'never' in this example is an emotional reaction rather than a considered one.

Not really. I have absolutely no emotional attachment to the issue at all

Feisar · 15-11-2011 06:52PM

DeBrugha wrote: »

Places like Derry is more Irish than places in the Republic, for example I've heard Irish a few times in Derry city.

The native dialects of Irish was alive in parts of the north untill the 50s, whereas in the south Irish died out over 300 years ago like Wicklow.

Derry is a decent Irish city, its a shame these Irish people are basically not cared about from the rest of Ireland.

People in the republic look up and see the border, but the Irish nationalists when they look down they see Ireland.

No, they see either Free Staters, Mexicans or Comanches! Well that's what they usually call me!

KeithAFC · 15-11-2011 06:58PM

the_syco wrote: »

Where would they get their funding from? The UK? The IRA were getting their funds from Irish fund-raisers in America during the troubles.

When loyalist bombs go off in Dublin, you'll see a huge influx of support for the RIRA to give retribution, which is a bad thing, and I do not want to see happening.

Even now, with the 26 counties without money, I have no doubt that the RoI still give the 6 counties money along with money the UK give them. How quick would NI go down the tubes without that money from the UK, I wonder?

Instead of 3 counties against 3 counties and the RUC and british army, it'd be 29 counties, an army that hates them, a police force that hates them, and the usual terrorists that hate them.

Which is why it will never work. The Garadi trying to police Sandy Row or the Shankill. People must be having a laugh.

Feisar · 15-11-2011 07:12PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Which is why it will never work. The Garadi trying to police Sandy Row or the Shankill. People must be having a laugh.

It'd probably be the same lads in the PSNI in different hats though.

Whats the demographic percentage like these days? It'll happen some time I assume.

snafuk35 · 15-11-2011 08:16PM

the_syco wrote: »

Where would they get their funding from? The UK? The IRA were getting their funds from Irish fund-raisers in America during the troubles.

There would be many in the UK who would support the loyalists and many Brits would volunteer to fight for them.

When loyalist bombs go off in Dublin, you'll see a huge influx of support for the RIRA to give retribution, which is a bad thing, and I do not want to see happening.

All the more reason why a United Ireland would be a disaster it would end up in massacres like those in Bosnia during the 1990s.

Even now, with the 26 counties without money, I have no doubt that the RoI still give the 6 counties money along with money the UK give them. How quick would NI go down the tubes without that money from the UK, I wonder?

All the more reason why the Republic of Ireland does not want to get involved.

Instead of 3 counties against 3 counties and the RUC and british army, it'd be 29 counties, an army that hates them, a police force that hates them, and the usual terrorists that hate them.

If the loyalists had their backs to the wall they would fight like hell. Win or lose at that stage they wouldn't care. They would rather go down in flames than give up. That's their mentality.

They would be up against a Republic of Ireland that would be only half hearted about fighting.
If the loyalists fought we would need far more than the 10,000 or so PDF troops.
They'd have to call up people with FCA experience and then have train civilians in a hurry.
You would have an unruly mob doing their own thing with no military discipline and they would start butchering and murdering loyalists.
The international community would intervene on the behalf of the weakest side.
Plucky loyalists would end up earning international support as underdogs.

Mint Sauce · 15-11-2011 08:33PM

We couldn't afford it.

Killer Pigeon · 15-11-2011 08:47PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

I agree. Can we get a never in the poll option?

The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9uHhLe6WE0

DeBrugha · 15-11-2011 08:49PM

There would be many in the UK who would support the loyalists and many Brits would volunteer to fight for them.

I doubt that very much almost everyone in the UK couldn't give two craps about northern loyalists. Infact in England they would be just seen as an Irish person by the average Joe.

snafuk35 · 15-11-2011 08:55PM

DeBrugha wrote: »

I doubt that very much almost everyone in the UK couldn't give two craps about northern loyalists. Infact in England they would be just seen as an Irish person by the average Joe.

If they saw people waving the Union Jack and fighting with their backs to the wall they would change their tune.

In 1982 the Argentinians calculated that they could grab the Falklands and repatriate the sheep farming families who live there back to England.

But when the British saw the surrendering Royal Marines face down after giving the invaders a good blood nose and when they saw men women and children refusing to recognise Argentinian sovereignty they changed their tune and they lost hundreds of men taking them back.

The loyalists would fight like hell and they wouldn't care who supported them. It's in their blood since 1609 and the massacres of 1641 and the Battle of the Somme in 1916.
You would have to be crazy if after more than 30 years of violence when IRA bombs did not break their will that they would just give up just like that.

They would sooner live in an independent Ulster than join a United Ireland. Simple as that.

Who would want them in our republic? The Brits can keep them!

DeBrugha · 15-11-2011 08:57PM

You rarely ever see a union jack being flown in England.

Augmerson · 15-11-2011 09:05PM

snafuk35 wrote: »

There would be many in the UK who would support the loyalists and many Brits would volunteer to fight for them.

All the more reason why a United Ireland would be a disaster it would end up in massacres like those in Bosnia during the 1990s.

All the more reason why the Republic of Ireland does not want to get involved.

If the loyalists had their backs to the wall they would fight like hell. Win or lose at that stage they wouldn't care. They would rather go down in flames than give up. That's their mentality.

They would be up against a Republic of Ireland that would be only half hearted about fighting.
If the loyalists fought we would need far more than the 10,000 or so PDF troops.
They'd have to call up people with FCA experience and then have train civilians in a hurry.
You would have an unruly mob doing their own thing with no military discipline and they would start butchering and murdering loyalists.
The international community would intervene on the behalf of the weakest side.
Plucky loyalists would end up earning international support as underdogs.

LOL

sensibleken · 15-11-2011 09:05PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9uHhLe6WE0

ah yes but look what he also says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-_aw3AxgE

snafuk35 · 15-11-2011 09:09PM

DeBrugha wrote: »

You rarely ever see a union jack being flown in England.

They haven't been in danger of invasion since the 1940.
But when they feel that British people are in peril they come all over with national pride.
Every country does.
You rarely see the tricolor flown in Ireland except from public buildings but if Al-Qaeda set off a bomb on Grafton Street and we sent troops to Afghanistan we would change our tune too.

DeBrugha · 15-11-2011 09:12PM

You rarely see the tricolor flown in Ireland

In North eastern Ireland you do

snafuk35 · 15-11-2011 09:18PM

DeBrugha wrote: »

In North eastern Ireland you do

And why was that? Because you had a minority with their backs to the wall and who felt abandoned by the south am I right?

Do you not think the loyalists would feel the same if they were abandoned by the UK? They would fight hard too.

Plenty of the people in the south supported the IRA despite official Ireland wanting nothing to do with them.

Plenty of Brits would support the loyalists if they felt that a United Ireland turned them into second class citizens.

The tables would be turned and instead of British soldiers and RUC dying, it would be Irish Defence Forces and Gardaí.

DeBrugha · 15-11-2011 09:32PM

And why was that? Because you had a minority with their backs to the wall and who felt abandoned by the south am I right?

I'm not actually from the North.

Anyway Ulster did not have a minority, infact the whole province of Ulster is mainly Catholic with the exception to Antrim and parts of Down.

The reason why Donegal, Cavan, and Monaghan wasn't partitioned to make themselves a majority. Maybe thats why they were a minority with their backs to the wall because it was cheated.

Do you not think the loyalists would feel the same if they were abandoned by the UK? They would fight hard too.

Plenty of the people in the south supported the IRA despite official Ireland wanting nothing to do with them.

Practically no one supported the UVF in the UK though knowing they had a struggle of their own.

Plenty of Brits would support the loyalists if they felt that a United Ireland turned them into second class citizens.

They wouldn't be turned into second class citizens, there are actually some unionism in the Republic such as Drum in Monaghan and the orange hall in Rossnowlagh, they are treated normally. The Republic even funded the Orange halls in the south ffs.

They would be welcomed to a United Ireland.

Sunnyisland · 15-11-2011 09:34PM

DiBrugarh wrote: »

You rarely ever see a union jack being flown in England.

I was in London two weeks ago and there are union jacks being flown from many a building.

snafuk35 · 15-11-2011 09:57PM

DeBrugha wrote: »

I'm not actually from the North

.

Never said you were. Where is this coming from?

Anyway Ulster did not have a minority, infact the whole province of Ulster is mainly Catholic with the exception to Antrim and parts of Down.

A majority in Northern Ireland vote Unionist. End of story.

The reason why Donegal, Cavan, and Monaghan wasn't partitioned to make themselves a majority. Maybe thats why they were a minority with their backs to the wall because it was cheated.

What's done can't be undone. Things are as they are. I think the IRA tried to do something about it for 30+ years. Sorry. Didn't work.

Practically no one supported the UVF in the UK though knowing they had a struggle of their own.

British collusion? Come on! Read history book! The Unionist parties have been allied to the Conservatives for years.

They wouldn't be turned into second class citizens, there are actually some unionism in the Republic such as Drum in Monaghan and the orange hall in Rossnowlagh, they are treated normally. The Republic even funded the Orange halls in the south ffs.

You've got to be joking right? Orange halls are still being burned down by republicans. There are peace lines still in existence across the north and the scum on both sides are attacking each other only its not reported outside of Ulster. If things kicked off again they would go right back to killing each other like they did for years.

They would be welcomed to a United Ireland.

I was in Dublin in 2006 when the Orangemen came down to march through O'Connell Street. I came to have look because I wanted to welcome them down south. But there were thousands out who wanted to kill them. Only for the Gardaí being there they would have been lynched.

All you have to do is go into a bar in Dublin and see the crowds in Celtic jerseys singing IRA songs. They is a murderous hatred of Protestants just below the surface in the south.

If there was a United Ireland and the loyalists kicked off a war there is a sizable minority who would want to go up north to murder Protestants.

However that said the majority are like myself who think the whole thing is nuts.

Chuck Stone · 15-11-2011 10:12PM

snafuk35 wrote: »

There would be many in the UK who would support the loyalists and many Brits would volunteer to fight for them.

All the more reason why a United Ireland would be a disaster it would end up in massacres like those in Bosnia during the 1990s.

All the more reason why the Republic of Ireland does not want to get involved.

If the loyalists had their backs to the wall they would fight like hell. Win or lose at that stage they wouldn't care. They would rather go down in flames than give up. That's their mentality.

They would be up against a Republic of Ireland that would be only half hearted about fighting.
If the loyalists fought we would need far more than the 10,000 or so PDF troops.
They'd have to call up people with FCA experience and then have train civilians in a hurry.
You would have an unruly mob doing their own thing with no military discipline and they would start butchering and murdering loyalists.
The international community would intervene on the behalf of the weakest side.
Plucky loyalists would end up earning international support as underdogs.

And the 2011 booby-prize for worst crystal ball gazing goes to...

drum-roll-drum-roll-drum-roll-drum-roll....

snafuk35!

blahfckingblah · 15-11-2011 10:12PM

snafuk35 wrote: »

.

All you have to do is go into a bar in Dublin and see the crowds in Celtic jerseys singing IRA songs. They is a murderous hatred of Protestants just below the surface in the south.

I have been in many a pub in dublin and i have yet to see crowds of people in Celtic Jerseys singing rebel songs, I don't know what pubs you were in but thats not your average pub in dublin

Chuck Stone · 15-11-2011 10:23PM

snafuk35 wrote: »

I was in Dublin in 2006 when the Orangemen came down to march through O'Connell Street.

Orangemen? Stop lying.

What you are talking about was Willie Frazer's provocative Love Ulster gang.

But there were thousands out who wanted to kill them. Only for the Gardaí being there they would have been lynched.

A provocative parade got a reaction. Were you surprised?

They is a murderous hatred of Protestants just below the surface in the south.

Absolute paranoid bull****.

If there was a United Ireland and the loyalists kicked off a war there is a sizable minority who would want to go up north to murder Protestants.

Loyalists kicking off a war or Protestants? Do you actually have any idea what you're talking about?

Seriously you're spouting paranoia like a less smart 60's Paisley.

Stop embarrassing yourself with your fantasies of violence. Stop living in the past. The conflict is over.

United Ireland

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