Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

D'Agger · 15-11-2011 04:47PM

noodler wrote: »

See I think you are obviously using hyperbole to make your point.

Moreover, spending 20m or 35m on players who are 20+ does necessitate some kind of instant return.

We aren't talking about some teenagers we got for free.

If anything I wasn't trying to use hyperbole - more, look at things simply - player is young, give him time.

The transfer fee does add a different dimension to it I admit - I was expecting more of a return from Carroll as he was one of the players lighting up the PL from August - December.

But with regard to Henderson, were we to hold off on buying him in 2012 or 2013 when we would really need to replace Gerrard - how much would he cost us then? It was a speculative purchase and one that I think and hope will work out for us.

noodler · 15-11-2011 04:56PM

PaulieC wrote: »

But with regard to Henderson, were we to hold off on buying him in 2012 or 2013 when we would really need to replace Gerrard - how much would he cost us then? It was a speculative purchase and one that I think and hope will work out for us.

To be honest, I don't think we should have bought him at all.

20m is insane for a speculative purchase.

D'Agger · 15-11-2011 05:01PM

noodler wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think we should have bought him at all.

20m is insane for a speculative purchase.

I'm still saying it was £16m

That said, I'm a bit worried about our next two transfer seasons tbh because there's the fear we'll get done on prices for players with selling teams having seen us spend that much money on Henderson and Carroll.

At the same time if we can get more purchases like Enrique for the same prices I'd be all for that

Leiva · 15-11-2011 06:10PM

PaulieC wrote: »

I'm still saying it was £16m

That said, I'm a bit worried about our next two transfer seasons tbh because there's the fear we'll get done on prices for players with selling teams having seen us spend that much money on Henderson and Carroll.

At the same time if we can get more purchases like Enrique for the same prices I'd be all for that

I take comfort that Suarez must be near the £40mil valuation & Enrique must be touching £15mil so that takes some sting out of the expensive "potential" purchases we made .

Swings & Roundabouts .

tommyhaas · 15-11-2011 06:20PM

In terms of the British spine to the squad being assembled by Dalglish, what value do people put on the players sharing a common culture?

Certainly I believe it has a positive influence, as with any other job, its far easier to interact with those who both speak the language and share a common culture

All of Dalglish's successful sides have had this, Barcelona at present have it, Utd sides under Ferguson have more often then not have had it, as did Bayern and Ajax during the peak of their most recent European success, to name just a few.

I'm not suggesting their success was fuelled by this, obviously there is many other more relevant factors, but it was no doubt a contributing factor, in that it would have been far easier to muster a good team spirit which in turn aids morale and performances

D'Agger · 15-11-2011 06:40PM

Few of ye might like to take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY2CcDKrA38

Kess73 · 15-11-2011 06:41PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

In terms of the British spine to the squad being assembled by Dalglish, what value do people put on the players sharing a common culture?

Certainly I believe it has a positive influence, as with any other job, its far easier to interact with those who both speak the language and share a common culture

All of Dalglish's successful sides have had this, Barcelona at present have it, Utd sides under Ferguson have more often then not have had it, as did Bayern and Ajax during the peak of their most recent European success, to name just a few.

I'm not suggesting their success was fuelled by this, obviously there is many other more relevant factors, but it was no doubt a contributing factor, in that it would have been far easier to muster a good team spirit which in turn aids morale and performances

And yet our best league season since the club last won the title was with a team that did not have a strong British spine.

To be honest I don't buy into the shared culture thing, especially in England where there can be massive divides between North and South in terms of attitude and lifestyles.

I could not give a rat's ass whether Liverpool FC fielded eleven Englishmen or eleven foreigners as long as all eleven worked well as a team and were the best eleven the club could field at that time.

Kess73 · 15-11-2011 06:42PM

PaulieC wrote: »

Few of ye might like to take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY2CcDKrA38

Kelly just continues to impress regardless of whether it is reserve football, under 21 football or senior first team football. Keep him injury free and we have a monster defender in him.

tommyhaas · 15-11-2011 07:04PM

Kess73 wrote: »

And yet our best league season since the club last won the title was with a team that did not have a strong British spine.

To be honest I don't buy into the shared culture thing, especially in England where there can be massive divides between North and South in terms of attitude and lifestyles.

I could not give a rat's ass whether Liverpool FC fielded eleven Englishmen or eleven foreigners as long as all eleven worked well as a team and were the best eleven the club could field at that time.

Having often worked with a mixture of Northern and Southerners I found that they're far more likely to get on with one another then with those from a completely different culture and I certainly believe that a shared culture is constructive of a good team spirit and morale

Is it that a shared culture breeds good team spirit that you disagree with, or is the importance of team spirit?

As you said, I don't care where the players are from, so long as they've the ability, however looking at Dalglish's previous teams, it possible he puts an importance on this, that or he has never fully recovered from the burn he suffered at the hands of Rafel Scheidt

Using your example of the Liverpool side of 08/09, I firmly believe that was a better side then Utd's that year. Obviously there was many reasons the league wasn't won, but its entirely possible Utd's team spirit ensured the group was stronger then the sum of the parts

Kess73 · 15-11-2011 07:17PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Having often worked with a mixture of Northern and Southerners I found that they're far more likely to get on with one another then with those from a completely different culture and I certainly believe that a shared culture is constructive of a good team spirit and morale

Is it that a shared culture breeds good team spirit that you disagree with, or is the importance of team spirit?

As you said, I don't care where the players are from, so long as they've the ability, however looking at Dalglish's previous teams, it possible he puts an importance on this, that or he has never fully recovered from the burn he suffered at the hands of Rafel Scheidt

Using your example of the Liverpool side of 08/09, I firmly believe that was a better side then Utd's that year. Obviously there was many reasons the league wasn't won, but its entirely possible Utd's team spirit ensured the group was stronger then the sum of the parts

I don't believe that a shared culture always breeds a good team spirit.

The importance of trying to create and maintain a good team spirit is a no brainer though.

tommyhaas · 15-11-2011 07:23PM

Kess73 wrote: »

I don't believe that a shared culture always breeds a good team spirit.

The importance of trying to create and maintain a good team spirit is a no brainer though.

Not always obviously there's always people who don't get on, but I'd certainly believe its more likely to breed good morale

Kess73 · 15-11-2011 07:38PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Not always obviously there's always people who don't get on, but I'd certainly believe its more likely to breed good morale

I believe that a clever manager/back room staff can create a good team spirit regardless of the player's nationalities if the right players are brought in.

Most of the title winning teams in England over the last 10 to 15 years were made up of foreign spines rather than English spines, and I cannot think of a better measure of team spirit in football than that possessed by title winning teams.

But then again it is an arguement that both of us could give good examples of how each of our view's work, but I do think that in England it is less of a factor to have a shared culture for a good team spirit than it is in mainland Europe.

When Liverpool finally bring home the league title again, I won't give a damn as to whether the team spirit is an English one that proved your shared culture theory or a mongrel group that proves my point. The one thing I would like to see though is Martin Kelly lifting that trophy.:D

corcaigh07 · 15-11-2011 08:17PM

Kess73 wrote: »

And yet our best league season since the club last won the title was with a team that did not have a strong British spine.

To be honest I don't buy into the shared culture thing, especially in England where there can be massive divides between North and South in terms of attitude and lifestyles.

I could not give a rat's ass whether Liverpool FC fielded eleven Englishmen or eleven foreigners as long as all eleven worked well as a team and were the best eleven the club could field at that time.

i think he has a point, the 08/09 starting eleven had a very strong Spanish spine with Reina, Arbeloa, Alonso, Riera and Torres with Rafa as manager....

Phoenix Park · 15-11-2011 08:25PM

Makes the current transfer policy even more baffling. This "English youth premium" is a load of rubbish as is the concept of "foreigners not liking a cold Wednesday night V Stoke" ( our whole team is never going to like a cold Wednesday night V Stoke, or any other day of the week V Stoke for that matter). The reality is "foreign" players are cheaper accounting for age and ability, and generally you'll get a better buy for 20 mil abroad rather than 20 mil on a young English talent, notwithstanding wage differentials. I'd love if we started looking at older more experienced players abroad rather than gambling on the next big English thing.

machiavellianme · 15-11-2011 09:01PM

Kess73 wrote: »

And yet our best league season since the club last won the title was with a team that did not have a strong British spine.

To be honest I don't buy into the shared culture thing, especially in England where there can be massive divides between North and South in terms of attitude and lifestyles.

I could not give a rat's ass whether Liverpool FC fielded eleven Englishmen or eleven foreigners as long as all eleven worked well as a team and were the best eleven the club could field at that time.

Agreed, id be happy if they fielded 11 uruguayans

K-9 · 15-11-2011 09:03PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

In terms of the British spine to the squad being assembled by Dalglish, what value do people put on the players sharing a common culture?

Certainly I believe it has a positive influence, as with any other job, its far easier to interact with those who both speak the language and share a common culture

All of Dalglish's successful sides have had this, Barcelona at present have it, Utd sides under Ferguson have more often then not have had it, as did Bayern and Ajax during the peak of their most recent European success, to name just a few.

I'm not suggesting their success was fuelled by this, obviously there is many other more relevant factors, but it was no doubt a contributing factor, in that it would have been far easier to muster a good team spirit which in turn aids morale and performances

There's also a strong Spanish/S. American as well with Coates, Enrique and Suarez signed, together with Lucas and Maxi. I think that's a good thing too and people have over looked that when talking about British signings.

PaulieC wrote: »

Few of ye might like to take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY2CcDKrA38

I think he deserves a run of games with us now. He seems to be on a run of games without any significant injuries, looks the real deal. Hopefully Coates can get a few games too.

K-9 · 15-11-2011 09:59PM

Amazing that Downing actually looks pretty decent when he has bodies in the box to aim at!

G.K. · 15-11-2011 10:28PM

I'm watching Eng, Downing's been the best player IMO.

amiable · 15-11-2011 10:30PM

G.K. wrote: »

I'm watching Eng, Downing's been the best player IMO.

Lots of talk on twitter saying the same but i wasn't sure if they were serious.

Time for him to get the finger out at Liverpool

K-9 · 15-11-2011 10:41PM

amiable wrote: »

Lots of talk on twitter saying the same but i wasn't sure if they were serious.

Time for him to get the finger out at Liverpool

Time for others to help him out a bit more too.

Jayob10 · 16-11-2011 12:02AM

Kess73 wrote: »

Kelly just continues to impress regardless of whether it is reserve football, under 21 football or senior first team football. Keep him injury free and we have a monster defender in him.

I watched the game last night, he played at centre half again, to be honest he was poor in the second half. He is decent on the ball, and has good recovery pace but right now he plays far too loose.

He is definately not ready to play centre half for us yet unfortunately. but he does have huge potential for sure.

argosy2006 · 16-11-2011 12:45AM

tommyhaas · 16-11-2011 12:57AM

What is with all the homosexuality in the thread the last few days, Henderson, and now Suarez and Evra, its getting gayer then the Utd thread with all their Javier ''aren't we so lucky to have him, he's such a dream boat'' Hernandez pictures :pac:

Strongbow10 · 16-11-2011 01:54AM

tommyhaas wrote: »

What is with all the homosexuality in the thread the last few days, Henderson, and now Suarez and Evra, its getting gayer then the Utd thread with all their Javier ''aren't we so lucky to have him, he's such a dream boat'' Hernandez pictures :pac:

what are ya doing on the United thread???

Blatter · 16-11-2011 02:44AM

argosy2006 wrote: »

Suarez there really reminded me of Saddam Hussein in the South Park movie :pac:

5starpool · 16-11-2011 03:54AM

Blatter wrote: »

Suarez there really reminded me of Saddam Hussein in the South Park movie :pac:

Thank fu*k they didn't shop Evra's head onto Scarlett Johansson's body.

redzerdrog · 16-11-2011 08:29AM

Strongbow10 wrote: »

tommyhaas wrote: »

What is with all the homosexuality in the thread the last few days, Henderson, and now Suarez and Evra, its getting gayer then the Utd thread with all their Javier ''aren't we so lucky to have him, he's such a dream boat'' Hernandez pictures :pac:

what are ya doing on the United thread???

Reading it i'd imagine!

Sappy404 · 16-11-2011 09:51AM

I think the point of creating a young British side isn't so much to create a shared culture in the team, but to have a core of players in 3 to 4 years' time who are less likely to want to move abroad, with very few British footballers playing/wanting to play overseas.

A team with 4 or 5 players hitting their prime in a few years' time that has no desire to play for a Spanish boyhood club (Fabregas, Ronaldo), leave for family reasons (Mascherano, Tevez) or for foreign climate/culture (Aquilani, probably) would be ideal.

mike65 · 16-11-2011 11:09AM

I've been banging on about Downings contributions being better than they look, Coates got the second half of the Italy Uruguay game last night.

D'Agger · 16-11-2011 11:12AM

mike65 wrote: »

I've been banging on about Downings contributions being better than they look, Coates got the second half of the Italy Uruguay game last night.

How'd he do?

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 - Mod Note 4153

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