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Pacquiao vs JMM III

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    #152
    horsemeat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭horsemeat


    moneyman wrote: »
    Your post is what's disgraceful. Absolutely clueless, the absolute shite we're going to have to listen to from idiots saying Pacquiao is a disgrace and hope he gets destroyed by Mayweather etc. etc. is extremely annoying. Mayweather is hardly the measuring stick for class or dignity, and if you're more outraged by Pacquiao getting a dodgy decision than you are by the crap that Floyd has pulled, you're opinion is worthless and biased, and that's putting it nicely.

    Not Pacquiao's fault the judges scored it for him. Anyone expecting him to say he lost after the fight is deluded. I'm not saying he won, but he landed more punches, and the main reason people see it so clearly as a win for Marquez is simply because Manny was expected to knock him out and he struggled. If expectations were even going into this fight people would be saying it was a lot closer. That said, I do think Marquez won.

    I don't think my opinion is worthless.

    Please detail some of the stuff you think floyd has pulled that is worse than what went on last night.

    Fact is, Mayweather is head and shoulders above everyone in boxing and doesn't get his fair dues.

    Pac-man beats a couple of washed up opponents at catch weight fights and people think he's as good as floyd.

    A miserable performance against Mosley really sowed some doubts.

    Last night he got schooled and then had the audacity to claim that it was obvious he won. Who does he think he's fooling?

    One thing you can say, Mayweather doesn't pretend to be something he's not, and he certainly doesn't have to resort to lining the pockets of judges to ensure he wins.

    It's a dark night for boxing, MMA is continually on the rise and if crap like this keeps occurring you can be sure more and more people will be flicking off and flicking over.

    I certainly won't be watching pacquiao ever again, i'm disgusted with boxing atm, it's been a dark dark year, high level boxing has become too much of a circus involving mismatched opponents, that's fair enough I like my 24/7s et al as much of the rest of you and doesn't bother me that I know the fighters are mismatched. But when someone like Marquez (who was in essence being used as cannon fodder for manny) then upsets the apple cart, the powers that be just call a halt to it and line the judges pockets.

    This is becoming more and more like WWE


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    #153
    Wild_Dogger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Wild_Dogger


    First of all ..... the fight was pants .

    Secondly ....... I watched HBO coverage and they had Pac winning it , cheerlead by Harold Lederman and his crazy scores.

    Thirdly , JJM clearly won by 3 - 4 rounds .

    Forthly .... Pacq looked so awkward when he was claiming he 'clearly won' . He knew he lost and his body language said it all .

    Shocked ?........ not at all , its a business - not a sport .


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    #154
    Spazdarn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Spazdarn


    Saying JMM won by 3-4 rounds is as ridiculous as saying Manny won by that amount, a lot of the rounds there wasn't much action to split the two, and if you were going to give it to someone you'd usually give it to the aggressor.

    horsemeat wrote: »
    I don't think my opinion is worthless.

    Please detail some of the stuff you think floyd has pulled that is worse than what went on last night.

    Fact is, Mayweather is head and shoulders above everyone in boxing and doesn't get his fair dues.

    Pac-man beats a couple of washed up opponents at catch weight fights and people think he's as good as floyd.

    A miserable performance against Mosley really sowed some doubts.

    Last night he got schooled and then had the audacity to claim that it was obvious he won. Who does he think he's fooling?

    One thing you can say, Mayweather doesn't pretend to be something he's not, and he certainly doesn't have to resort to lining the pockets of judges to ensure he wins.

    It's a dark night for boxing, MMA is continually on the rise and if crap like this keeps occurring you can be sure more and more people will be flicking off and flicking over.

    I certainly won't be watching pacquiao ever again, i'm disgusted with boxing atm, it's been a dark dark year, high level boxing has become too much of a circus involving mismatched opponents, that's fair enough I like my 24/7s et al as much of the rest of you and doesn't bother me that I know the fighters are mismatched. But when someone like Marquez (who was in essence being used as cannon fodder for manny) then upsets the apple cart, the powers that be just call a halt to it and line the judges pockets.

    This is becoming more and more like WWE

    I'm sure what he was referring to was Mayweather hitting an opponent while he was apologising. I personally felt Ortiz deserved everything he got but it's still a pretty scummy thing to do. He also seemingly didn't bother coming into his Marquez fight at the right weight, which the smaller man with an even bigger disadvantage.

    Floyd is unreal but it's hard to say he's miles ahead of everyone when he's been very selective (also) with who he fights. He ducked a lot of the guys Manny went on to fight, Cotto and Margarito stand out. He's also been ducking Pacquiao with his "take the test jibes", when everyone said they don't get a **** about the drugs anymore.

    Mosley ran all night after feeling his power in the early rounds, there's little you can do when I guy spends the night running from you.

    Agreed about the rest to be honest...

    As I said despite Marquez looking better in the fight at times when it came to counting up the rounds, Manny did well at the beginning, I'd say definitely got the last round and a lot of the middle rounds were close enough.


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    #155
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #156
    Boooourns
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Boooourns


    I've watched it twice and both times i've scored it 115-113 for Marquez, there was a few close rounds particularly the 4th which i gave to Marquez, if that goes to Pacquaoi then it's a draw.
    I just can't have Manny winning it though, and the scorecard of 116-112 is a shocker.
    Marquez did not lose this fight in the ring.


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    #157
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,027 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    ToiletFusion wrote: »
    Saying JMM won by 3-4 rounds is as ridiculous as saying Manny won by that amount, a lot of the rounds there wasn't much action to split the two, and if you were going to give it to someone you'd usually give it to the aggressor.
    .

    I agree. I realy fail to see how anyone can claim a clear cut win for either. It was a dull fight, and every rd was close, and difficult to score. Neither man IMO looked anything special, but, at least Manny was trying to win that bit more. Were you guys watching it on primetime with that tit of a commentator shouting and roaring anytime JMM looked to be doing well? Did that maybe influene yee all?

    I scored it 6 rds to 4 with two even for Manny (116-114). And, I wouldn't argue against any score for either man. It was a terribly difficult fight to score.

    BTW, the real loser here is Floyd. All that pissing and moaning about drugs, and in JMM goes and shows that Manny is nothing more than human.

    What is Floyd worried about? I said before that others have all gotten in there and fought Manny, why can't he?


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    #158
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,027 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Boooourns wrote: »
    I've watched it twice and both times i've scored it 115-113 for Marquez, there was a few close rounds particularly the 4th which i gave to Marquez, if that goes to Pacquaoi then it's a draw.
    I just can't have Manny winning it though, and the scorecard of 116-112 is a shocker.
    Marquez did not lose this fight in the ring.

    How is the score a shocker when every rd was so close? How? I did not see one decisive round.

    I have said before that when most, if not all rds of a fight are very close, then any score should be a fair score. 120-108 can be a fair score either way. It is all down to subjectivity. Two judges could easily score a very close fight completely differently. I would not see anything wrong here.


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    #159
    Boooourns
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Boooourns


    walshb wrote: »
    How is the score a shocker when every rd was so close? How? I did not see one decisive round.

    I have said before that when most, if not all rds of a fight are very close, then any score should be a fair score. 120-108 can be a fair score either way. It is all down to subjectivity. Two judges could easily score a very close fight completely differently. I would not see anything wrong here.

    Round 1 and 4 were the closest rounds, i didn't find it hard scoring the other rounds. I can't for the life of me give Manny more than 6 rounds, i've watched it twice with different commentary as both were biased towards each fighter.
    Manny and his teams reaction was that of a team who has lost, even Khan gave Marquez the fight!


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    #160
    Boooourns
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Boooourns


    and of course it being a close fight Marquez was never getting the result and that's a fact.


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    #161
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,027 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Boooourns wrote: »
    and of course it being a close fight Marquez was never getting the result and that's a fact.

    Well, I found that most rds were very close and difficult to score. I could have given the two even rds to JMM and it is a draw, or, had I shaded them to Pacman it ends up 116-112, but still damn close. The score sometines does not reflect the fight.


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    #162
    Boooourns
    Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭Boooourns


    walshb wrote: »
    Well, I found that most rds were very close and difficult to score. I could have given the two even rds to JMM and it is a draw, or, had I shaded them to Pacman it ends up 118-110, but still damn close. The score sometines does not reflect the fight.

    Have you watched it again? Manny done better for me on second viewing but i still scored it in favour of Marquez but as i said if i give the 4th to Manny then it's a draw.


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    #163
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    walshb wrote: »
    I agree. I realy fail to see how anyone can claim a clear cut win for either. It was a dull fight, and every rd was close, and difficult to score. Neither man IMO looked anything special, but, at least Manny was trying to win that bit more. Were you guys watching it on primetime with that tit of a commentator shouting and roaring anytime JMM looked to be doing well? Did that maybe influene yee all?

    I scored it 6 rds to 4 with two even for Manny (116-114). And, I wouldn't argue against any score for either man. It was a terribly difficult fight to score.

    BTW, the real loser here is Floyd. All that pissing and moaning about drugs, and in JMM goes and shows that Manny is nothing more than human.

    What is Floyd worried about? I said before that others have all gotten in there and fought Manny, why can't he?


    There's only so much subjectivity you can allow for though. Marquez hit significantly more clean shots on Manny. It seems clear cut to me that Marqeuz won, he dominated and displayed much superior technical ability.


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    #164
    Denners.ie
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭Denners.ie


    walshb wrote: »
    Well, I found that most rds were very close and difficult to score. I could have given the two even rds to JMM and it is a draw, or, had I shaded them to Pacman it ends up 118-110, but still damn close. The score sometines does not reflect the fight.

    Come on Walshy take Pacman's pipe out of your gob for once.

    It was a close fight but no way did Pacman win that fight, a disgrace of the highest order.

    On a side note I actually feel quite embarrassed in think Pacmans speed and combos would be too much for Mayweather's counter style. Money would make a fool of him, it would be a wide UD based on the last two fights.


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    #165
    gene_tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭gene_tunney


    ITT: Most people don't know **** about boxing.


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    #166
    Jayob10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,787 ✭✭✭Jayob10


    walshb wrote: »
    I agree. I realy fail to see how anyone can claim a clear cut win for either. It was a dull fight, and every rd was close, and difficult to score. Neither man IMO looked anything special, but, at least Manny was trying to win that bit more. Were you guys watching it on primetime with that tit of a commentator shouting and roaring anytime JMM looked to be doing well? Did that maybe influene yee all?

    I scored it 6 rds to 4 with two even for Manny (116-114). And, I wouldn't argue against any score for either man. It was a terribly difficult fight to score.

    BTW, the real loser here is Floyd. All that pissing and moaning about drugs, and in JMM goes and shows that Manny is nothing more than human.

    What is Floyd worried about? I said before that others have all gotten in there and fought Manny, why can't he?

    what a condescending post that is. You did not need to listen to a commentator to see that Marquez won that fight by at least 2 rounds. Give the posters a little bit of credit.

    Manny spent many rounds being made to miss crudely, and Marquez countered with great efficiency on almost every occasion. It was a real counter punching masterclass I think, against a top class opponent.


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    #167
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,027 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Denners.ie wrote: »
    It was a close fight but no way did Pacman win that fight, a disgrace of the highest order.

    .

    I don't get this. It was a close fight, yet Manny getting the nod in this close fight is a disgrace?


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    #168
    willmunny1990
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭willmunny1990


    gene_tunney wrote: »
    ITT: Most people don't know **** about boxing.

    Well anyone that knows anything about boxing knows Manny is grossly over-hyped and a fight with floyd has only one outcome...A pac-man loss.


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    #169
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,027 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Jayob10 wrote: »
    what a condescending post that is. You did not need to listen to a commentator to see that Marquez won that fight by at least 2 rounds. Give the posters a little bit of credit.

    Condscending? It's just thrown out there for conversation. Chill. The guy was all for JMM, and sometimes commentary can sway even the most focused of viewer.


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    #170
    Denners.ie
    Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭Denners.ie


    walshb wrote: »
    I don't get this. It was a close fight, yet Manny getting the nod in this close fight is a disgrace?

    It was close as in Marquez didn't dominate the fight or rounds he won but he still won 7 at least.


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    #171
    Zimmerframe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Zimmerframe


    I'm a big Manny fan and always "rooted" for him, but I'm not blind.
    Anyone who thought he won that fight is either deluded or visually impaired or both.
    It was a disgrace, there is no other way of describing it. As for the numbskull who awarded the fight to Manny 116-112, I hope he loses his envelope.
    Marquez won by at least a couple of rounds


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    #172
    barney4001
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭barney4001


    steve collins and bunce had manny well beaten


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    #173
    Wild_Dogger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Wild_Dogger


    JJMarquez was effective .
    Pacquiao wasn't .

    The only thing I have against JJM was that he didn't go aggressive enough .
    You got to really fight hardd to snatch the belt from the holder .

    All in all , it was a pss poor fight .

    Thought Alvarado v Prescott was great though !


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    #174
    coolegrain
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭coolegrain


    Wild_Dogger wrote: »
    JJMarquez was effective .
    Pacquiao wasn't .

    The only thing I have against JJM was that he didn't go aggressive enough .

    i think he fought perfectly, considering the opponent....i think if he had to be more aggressive it would have played into pacquaios hands.....remember, pacquaio has an exceptional chin and loves to brawl

    just my opinion like


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    #175
    horsemeat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭horsemeat


    Walshy take manny's snooker balls out of your mouth and take your pacquiao tinted glasses off for crying out lad, tis the biggest injustice in boxing for a long long time


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    #176
    Spazdarn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Spazdarn


    Biggest injustice in a long time? A little overdramatic. A fighter lost a close decision. The fighter that won was the aggressor and threw/landed more punches. In a lot of situations that will tip favour.


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    #177
    Si Conando
    Closed Accounts Posts: 64 ✭✭Si Conando


    I would take freddie roach and manny pacquiao's opinions on how the fight went above anyones, and roach telling him he needed the knockout, along with both of their reactions before the decision says it all. Manny lost, still love him, hope it doesnt tarnish people's opinion of him.


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    #178
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Guys any links to see the fight in full - I was away this weekend and HBO's twitter feed is all I had. Tks


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    #179
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,027 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    horsemeat wrote: »
    Walshy take manny's snooker balls out of your mouth and take your pacquiao tinted glasses off for crying out lad, tis the biggest injustice in boxing for a long long time

    Hold it a second. You obvioulsy haven't been reading my posts. I clearly said that I would have no argument against JMM also getting the decision. It was a horrible fight to score. I cannot see how anyone can argue for either man clearly.

    What astounds me is how so many are convinced of this robbery. What did yee all see that JMM did to so so deserve the win?

    Folks mention he countered Manny brilliantly? Most of the counters I saw were thin air or blocked glove shots. He may well have given the appearance of countering effectively, but really most were missed or blocked.

    Nothing to do woth loving Manny at all. I just did not see JMM winning, or doing anything great in there. If anything, to me, he looked a slower fighter than when he fought Floyd. Manny's main issue was distance and timing. That was down to JMMs style.


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    #180
    Spazdarn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Spazdarn


    Si Conando wrote: »
    I would take freddie roach and manny pacquiao's opinions on how the fight went above anyones, and roach telling him he needed the knockout, along with both of their reactions before the decision says it all. Manny lost, still love him, hope it doesnt tarnish people's opinion of him.

    That's like coaching 101. If it's tight you always tell your boxer to go out there and knock him out. Otherwise he takes it easy and possibly loses the fight due to that one lazy round. I would have thought that'd be common sense by now.

    Nacho probably didn't do Marquez any favours by telling him he'd won as he stop chasing the fight and let Manny sneak the last few rounds.


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    #181
    clubwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭clubwelly


    efb wrote: »
    Guys any links to see the fight in full - I was away this weekend and HBO's twitter feed is all I had. Tks

    You can catch the fight at allthebestfights.com or sosoboxing.com.

    Def one where I wudn't wanna be a judge. Can see both arguments for a Marquez or Pacman win. HBO kept saying that JMM did enough to retain a title but not enough to win the title.


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