RTE and the Licence FEE

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 01:38AM

psychward wrote: »

Well no-one from RTE actually owns anything morally since they steal their means from the taxpayer whether he uses their services or not. Why not turn your back on Mafia tactics and stop making us an offer we can't refuse Hugo.

This is a distinctly odd post, if I may say so, and I am somewhat confused as to how to dispose of the points made.

psychward · 13-11-2011 01:46AM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

This is a distinctly odd post, if I may say so, and I am somewhat confused as to how to dispose of the points made.

Because you got owned so comprehensively with no chance of rebuttal , you thought you'd ''brass it'' above and act like a hooker who pretends she cant speak English after her services are queried and money goes missing.

Terry · 13-11-2011 02:11AM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

This is a distinctly odd post, if I may say so, and I am somewhat confused as to how to dispose of the points made.

Hi.
I showed you that people actually go to jail for not having a tv licence.
As a defender of all things RTÉ, can you defend the Dickensian like punishment for not having a tv licence.

I'll take your lack of a reply as proof that you cannot defend it.

Jesus Wept · 13-11-2011 02:21AM

The irony is that if you were sent to jail for not having a licence, you could probably watch telly in your cell.

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 02:32AM

Terry wrote: »

Hi.
I showed you that people actually go to jail for not having a tv licence.
As a defender of all things RTÉ, can you defend the Dickensian like punishment for not having a tv licence.

I'll take your lack of a reply as proof that you cannot defend it.

This matter is not our issue, but, since it is frequently confused in the public mind, I shall address it authoritatively.

No, people do not go to gaol for not having a TV licence. They will have had their failure to hold a licence drawn to their attention, and opportunities to pay their way in society as equal citizens with their fellows, as legislated for by the Oireachtas, will have been laid before them. In addition, arrangements for installment payment of arrears are frequently made by the collection agency.

When people face a custodial sentence, it is for more serious reasons. Under the terms of the relevant act, the court may, in its absolute discretion, sentence a person to serve a term of imprisonment for failing to obey an order of the court to make such a payment. This happens very rarely, and generally involves cranks or people with what our American friends call 'issues', better suited, perhaps, to therapeutic solution than to legal.

Taking account of the fact that those who have been sentenced to serve a custodial sentence for non-payment may not be acting either in their own best interests or with entirely unclouded minds, informal arrangements are in place to have the fines levied by the courts paid anonymously from the Contingency Fund, to ensure that misdirected citizens do not suffer unnecessary loss of liberty, that detention places are not occupied by attention-seekers, and that publicity is minimised, largely for the good of the misfortunate individual concerned and their shamed families.

(Nor, I might add, are we talking about sentences being served in the 19th century Marshalsea Debtors' Prison, but in an open prison, where the presence of the national flag may be the only indicator that we are not looking at a Clarion Hotel!)

Please be assured that RTE is not pleased to see any citizen breaking the law, nor to see any citizen sent to gaol. Neither, I might add, is RTE the prosecuting authority.

I trust this disposes adequately of any concerns expressed on this matter.

rubadub · 13-11-2011 02:40AM

Terry wrote: »

Hi.
I showed you that people actually go to jail for not having a tv licence.
As a defender of all things RTÉ, can you defend the Dickensian like punishment for not having a tv licence.

It is nothing to do with RTE really. You are not technically being jailed for not having a tv licence, it is for the failure to pay a fine. Just like you could be jailed for not paying a fine for not cleaning up dog crap, or jaywalking.

Not paying the licence is pretty much the same as tax evasion, a criminal offence, so in my mind it should be jailing without all the warnings, and they do give loads of warnings. (i.e. I do view it as far more serious than jaywalking or not cleaning up after a dog)

The fine is ridiculously low, it should be thousands. Community work seems a better idea too 500 hours or so. It sickens me to think of all these people out there who are in effect stealing from my wallet and laughing at it like its a victimless crime or something. Where the fuck do they think the shortfall is going to come from.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/over-60-are-jailed-for-not-paying-tv-licence-fines-2073526.html

MORE than 60 people were jailed for failing to stump up court fines after they were caught without a TV licence last year.

The cases were among more than 15,700 prosecutions launched against TV licence dodgers in 2009.

An Post said every single household was given time to purchase a €160 licence after they were caught viewing television without the valid paperwork.

Inspectors called to more than 222,000 homes and businesses last year, which resulted in 15,700 prosecutions being initiated. However, not all of these resulted in court cases.

"An Post works to ensure that people are aware of their legal obligation, and to make it as easy as possible for all customers to buy or renew a TV licence," said a spokesman for the company, which earned €12.4m for collecting the fees.

"Prosecution is not the aim, it is a last resort, at which time responsibility moves from An Post to the Courts Service."

More than €226m was collected from fees last year after more than a million licences were purchased -- with a further €55m received from the Department of Social and Family Affairs to cover the 380,000 given to those qualifying for household benefits.

More than 3,366 people were jailed in the first 10 months of last year after they refused, or were unable, to pay various fines. This included 62 who ignored fines for not having a TV licence.

The numbers jailed for failing to pay fines have risen by 150pc since 2007. A new Fines Bill, due to give the courts power to impose community service orders, such as painting, landscaping or cleaning, is expected to become law this year.

Terry · 13-11-2011 02:42AM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

This matter is not our issue, but, since it is frequently confused in the public mind, I shall address it authoritatively.

No, people do not go to gaol for not having a TV licence. They will have had their failure to hold a licence drawn to their attention, and opportunities to pay their way in society as equal citizens with their fellows, as legislated for by the Oireachtas, will have been laid before them. In addition, arrangements for installment payment of arrears are frequently made by the collection agency.

When people face a custodial sentence, it is for more serious reasons. Under the terms of the relevant act, the court may, in its absolute discretion, sentence a person to serve a term of imprisonment for failing to obey an order of the court to make such a payment. This happens very rarely, and generally involves cranks or people with what our American friends call 'issues', better suited, perhaps, to therapeutic solution than to legal.

Taking account of the fact that those who have been sentenced to serve a custodial sentence for non-payment may not be acting either in their own best interests or with entirely unclouded minds, informal arrangements are in place to have the fines levied by the courts paid anonymously from the Contingency Fund, to ensure that misdirected citizens do not suffer unnecessary loss of liberty, that detention places are not occupied by attention-seekers, and that publicity is minimised, largely for the good of the misfortunate individual concerned and their shamed families.

(Nor, I might add, are we talking about sentences being served in the 19th century Marshalsea Debtors' Prison, but in an open prison, where the presence of the national flag may be the only indicator that we are not looking at a Clarion Hotel!)

Please be assured that RTE is not pleased to see any citizen breaking the law, nor to see any citizen sent to gaol. Neither, I might add, is RTE the prosecuting authority.

I trust this disposes adequately of any concerns expressed on this matter.

That's lovely.

I am on disability allowance. As a result, I am entitled to a free tv licence, or so I'm told.
I applied for it, but was rejected. No reason was given.
I live alone, and fit all the criteria, so there should not have been a problem.

The government is now going to send a mentally ill person to jail for not fitting their criteria of being mentally ill.

I look forward to my three meals a day, and my tv licence free viewing of RTÉ's shows at the expense of the tax payer.

I just hope that the prison doctor give me my medication.

Praise Jesus.

120_Minutes · 13-11-2011 02:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Hugo, what is your connection with RTE?

I'll repeat this again for you Hugo, as you seem to miss it.

Condescending troll is condescending

patwicklow · 13-11-2011 03:04AM

RTE some load of poor talent just look how they destroyed the late late show!
its the type of place its not what ye know its who ye know to get in there!just look at some of there so called over paid over rated stars, my god make its laughable for a national station. Rubbish Tripe Entertainment!

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 03:08AM

patwicklow wrote: »

RTE some load of poor talent just look how they destroyed the late late show!
its the type of place its not what ye know its who ye know to get in there!just look at some of there so called over paid over rated stars, my god make its laughable for a national station. Rubbish Tripe Entertainment!

Well, this is certainly a novel argument that will bear much careful analysis and teasing out. We may need to divide up the work, as addressing it to the standard of rebuttal demanded here is probably beyond the powers of one mere man. How have we been so lucky as to come so far in life without having such cartesian logic levied against us? Education has certainly not been wasted on everyone in this land.

120_Minutes · 13-11-2011 03:10AM

Hugo, what connection do you have with rte?

bradlente · 13-11-2011 07:42AM

"A new Fines Bill, due to give the courts power to impose community service orders, such as painting, landscaping or cleaning, is expected to become law this year."

That looks like a moneyspinner if I ever saw one.What exactly is this for or suppose to prevent?

jimmynokia · 13-11-2011 09:25AM

How much are your employers (RTE) paying your per post?

Galia · 13-11-2011 10:08AM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

(I find it hard to believe that this is not simply provocative posting calculated to get under the skin of patriotic listeners and viewers, but I cannot resist correcting the record.)

Derek is, as it happens, a highly gifted broadcaster, who has adapted to a dead time of day to enliven life for us. He is equally capable of much more serious broadcasting, as his scientific background would lead one to suspect.

We have Joe, we have Marty on RTE Lyric FM, we have Ronan on the senior service, we have Frank McNamara on RTE Lyric FM, we have John Murray making the nation laugh, RTE Lyric FM is where people go to hear Gay on a Sunday afternoon, we have Ryan on RTE 2FM, we have Pat every morning, we have Marion at weekends, there's Andy many Saturday evenings, there is Miriam, Mike is back on RTE One, Pat is in his element on Frontline: this is the talent that the competition tries and fails to poach. Patriotism and loyalty keep the on-air talent here; the viewers and listeners should demonstrate the same cordial loyalty to their national station.

Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.

Stick with what you know and value what you have and pay the modest tax to allow us to continue to enjoy the crème de la crème.

I would prefer to see rte be gutted and sold off than pay the forced TV license fee.
i do not watch rte why should i pay for a service i do not want or need or use in any way whatsoever?
RTE tv should be a subscription service hopefully someday so only the people who want it pay for it.

Hobbes · 13-11-2011 10:28AM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

You see, we all view RTE television

Nope. not me.

[edit] I thought I would expand on this, as Hugo appears to be living in a different world to me.

You see, we all view RTE television, at least during an election count, or during a Presidential inauguration, or when 'monster rain' is forecast, or when we have rights to a major sports event. Nobody, not even in the Black Valley in Kerry, ever really 'doesn't watch' RTE, in my experience.

We have this thing called the internet. I can view material not related to RTE which covers what you mention. I see you mention Eastenders/Coronation Street, but truth is I don't watch that either.

Now I may appear to be an exception to you, but truth is I am what RTE expects in the future. My nieces for example don't watch TV stations, neither does my son, or my family. The only person I'm aware of is my Mother who watches 3 shows on RTE.

It isn't because they don't have a TV, because we all do. It is the TV as a medium is dated and on its way out.

So to me RTE primary demographic is the 50+ and only getting older.

texidub · 13-11-2011 10:37AM

Hugo, Hugo, Brady Brown, will you be my nemesis?

I kind of enjoy the pomp and ceremony in your missives. The (perhaps unintentionally) hilarious thing is that you are defending mediocre television with the kind of purple prose usually reserved for defending obscure philosophies or difficult literary productions.

You're like a Montrose-inspired version of comic book guy in The Simpsons!

To some people, RTE 'stars' like Pat Kenny, Marian Finucane et al are the height of culture and talent. To the rest of Ireland, and indeed the entire human race outside this little isle, they are of no cultural importance whatsoever. Zilch.

To me at least, it then smacks of low standards to pay non-entities like these such huge wages. Remember no one wants them out of a job --but I think people would appreciate it if their wages bore some relation to established laws of physics

However, you appear to be fairly polite and I can assure you that you are harmless, so it's probaby best that we agree to disagree.

Ash.J.Williams · 13-11-2011 10:45AM

By the way ....having relocated to the country last year, and doing a little asking around...it appears the license fee is discriminatory against urban dwellers...People in my area do not get visits from the licence inspector. In Dublin i had annual visits..
So going by the unofficial rule "don't pay until you have too" the people of said rural area will never pay. How much revenue is lost from the countryside?

G-Money · 13-11-2011 11:56AM

I was wondering recently why RTE is getting money from the licence fee when they also get money from advertising. The BBC aren't allowed to advertise so why doesn't the same apply to RTE? I know there is a difference in population numbers but I don't really see what that has to do with it, except that perhaps the BBC has to cater to a more diverse and bigger audience so you could argue they deserve funding from more avenues than RTE does.

I almost never watch RTE One or Two. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've watched RTE this year to date. There's just very rarely anything on it that I want to watch. Occasionally I will flick on the RTE News if there's something specific going on here that I want to know about, but other than that, I never watch either channel.

mike65 · 13-11-2011 12:13PM

Irelands (read RTEs) top talent whore Noel Kelly has spoken out as his clients struggle to pay the mortgage

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rte-stars-are-struggling-to-pay-their-mortgage-bills-2933380.html

Some of RTE's well-known faces are struggling to pay mortgages and other bills, according to Ireland's biggest talent agent.

Noel Kelly has spoken out against the backlash RTE presenters are facing over their pay -- revealing that some of the personalities are struggling to make ends meet on their current salaries.

His comments come as RTE announced this weekend that the top 10 RTE presenters earned €4m between them in 2009.

Speaking to the Sunday Independent, Mr Kelly, who is Ireland's first showbiz superagent, said the fixation on stars' salaries is in stark contrast to the reality many TV personalities are facing.

"These figures are completely blown out of proportion," he explained.

"You forget that you have to take 51pc tax off, PRSI, PAYE and then health insurance, which gets more expensive as you get older. And then, of course, there's no guarantee of job security."

Mr Kelly, who represents some of Ireland's biggest names, said everyone had now played their part.

"Some of the talent on my books have taken a number of pay cuts since 2008. There is no doubt about it, they are stepping up to the plate time and time again."

And he revealed the financial pressures that some of Ireland's household names were now facing: "Some of the talent can't afford to pay their bills or bloody mortgages with what they earn and with work not being renewed. If a show is cancelled what can you do? You can't exactly force them [the RTE bosses] to keep it on

rubadub · 13-11-2011 12:14PM

bradlente wrote: »

"A new Fines Bill, due to give the courts power to impose community service orders, such as painting, landscaping or cleaning, is expected to become law this year."

That looks like a moneyspinner if I ever saw one.What exactly is this for or suppose to prevent?

It is supposed to be a deterrent to stop tax evasion, surely you understand why we have prisons & fines. as I said-

rubadub wrote: »

It sickens me to think of all these people out there who are in effect stealing from my wallet and laughing at it like its a victimless crime or something. Where the fuck do they think the shortfall is going to come from.

Imprisoning non-violent criminals is going to cost a lot more for the taxpayer, with community work at least there is some benefit while still being a deterrent for the robbing scumbags.

G-Money wrote: »

I was wondering recently why RTE is getting money from the licence fee when they also get money from advertising.

it has been explained numerous times already. Would you prefer the fee to double and have no ads? I would prefer more ads and lower fees.

unofficial rule "don't pay until you have too"

more like "steal from from decent people until you get caught", I wonder what other crimes these assholes would take up if enforcement those laws was lax.

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 12:16PM

Hobbes wrote: »

Nope. not me.

[edit] I thought I would expand on this, as Hugo appears to be living in a different world to me.

We have this thing called the internet. I can view material not related to RTE which covers what you mention. I see you mention Eastenders/Coronation Street, but truth is I don't watch that either.

Now I may appear to be an exception to you, but truth is I am what RTE expects in the future. My nieces for example don't watch TV stations, neither does my son, or my family. The only person I'm aware of is my Mother who watches 3 shows on RTE.

It isn't because they don't have a TV, because we all do. It is the TV as a medium is dated and on its way out.

So to me RTE primary demographic is the 50+ and only getting older.

I have heard of the Internet, as it happens. However, what Teilifís offers that is distinctive is the possibility of Ireland's being a commmunity, looking together at the Late Show with Ryan, or whatever else we all enjoy, so that we have an immediate contemporary culture and common points of reference and a common popular culture. Everyone, in every rank, condition and station in life, can view and thoroughly enjoy the magazine and discussion programme, and RTE N&CA, Light Entertainment and Features output, and society is the beneficiary. It is by feeding the nation simultaneously the same diet that the nation is kept together, discussing and talking together.

This is, as it happens, identical to the positive outcome of even the unsavoury subjects sometimes discussed on Talk to Joe on the Liveline: we all listen avidly, we all form our independent opinions, and then for 24 hours we have something in common for casual conversation. Or think of what we all gain from Marty Whelan on Marty in the Morning on RTE Lyric FM, weekdays from 7 to 10 am, with three glorious hours of fun and frolics, of the finest of music and the banter with the lovely Arwen Foley or the hilarious Rebecca Horan from AA Roadwatch!

In contrast, the Internet divides people up into atomised units, each following their own, possibly selfish interests, and communciating, not with real people or with Joe himself (and other stars) either in reality or in our mind's ear, but with hidden individuals, who may not always be what they seem to be. (What was it the famous New Yorker cartoon said about the Internet?)

Freddie59 · 13-11-2011 12:20PM

Hobbes wrote: »

Nope. not me.

[edit] I thought I would expand on this, as Hugo appears to be living in a different world to me.

We have this thing called the internet. I can view material not related to RTE which covers what you mention. I see you mention Eastenders/Coronation Street, but truth is I don't watch that either.

Now I may appear to be an exception to you, but truth is I am what RTE expects in the future. My nieces for example don't watch TV stations, neither does my son, or my family. The only person I'm aware of is my Mother who watches 3 shows on RTE.

It isn't because they don't have a TV, because we all do. It is the TV as a medium is dated and on its way out.

So to me RTE primary demographic is the 50+ and only getting older.

Hey - watch it!:D I'm 52, but I suppose I would be different to my peers, given that I would use the Internet more for news than the TV - and would be more computer literate than them. But you're spot on. you are far from the exception and are quickly becoming the norm. In the coming years it will be all about convergence. Even today, what should we class as a "TV"? Withe, as you point out, the Internet, 'Smart TVs', Media Players, handhelds, the list is endless.

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 12:24PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Hey - watch it!:D I'm 52, but I suppose I would be different to my peers, given that I would use the Internet more for news than the TV - and would be more computer literate than them. But you're spot on. you are far from the exception and are quickly becoming the norm. In the coming years it will be all about convergence. Even today, what should we class as a "TV"? Withe, as you point out, the Internet, 'Smart TVs', Media Players, handhelds, the list is endless.

I have a handheld myself, but I still think of Ryan, listen to Marty and am minded to Talk to Joe.

Freddie59 · 13-11-2011 12:24PM

mike65 wrote: »

Irelands (read RTEs) top talent whore Noel Kelly has spoken out as his clients struggle to pay the mortgage

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rte-stars-are-struggling-to-pay-their-mortgage-bills-2933380.html

FF. Are these people ACTUALLY in the real world? If they bought normal houses like the rest of us they wouldn't have these problem. Do they not forget that some of the rest of us ALSO pay 51% in some instances?

Freddie59 · 13-11-2011 12:25PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

In contrast, the Internet divides people up into atomised units,

And TV doesn't?

Freddie59 · 13-11-2011 12:26PM

G-Money wrote: »

I was wondering recently why RTE is getting money from the licence fee when they also get money from advertising. The BBC aren't allowed to advertise so why doesn't the same apply to RTE? I know there is a difference in population numbers but I don't really see what that has to do with it, except that perhaps the BBC has to cater to a more diverse and bigger audience so you could argue they deserve funding from more avenues than RTE does.

I almost never watch RTE One or Two. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've watched RTE this year to date. There's just very rarely anything on it that I want to watch. Occasionally I will flick on the RTE News if there's something specific going on here that I want to know about, but other than that, I never watch either channel.

Good points. It's amazing that the EU or competition authority cannot step in - or don't want to.

Galia · 13-11-2011 12:31PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

This is, as it happens, identical to the positive outcome of even the unsavoury subjects sometimes discussed on Talk to Joe on the Liveline: we all listen avidly, we all form our independent opinions, and then for 24 hours we have something in common for casual conversation. Or think of what we all gain from Marty Whelan on Marty in the Morning on RTE Lyric FM, weekdays from 7 to 10 am, with three glorious hours of fun and frolics, of the finest of music and the banter with the lovely Arwen Foley or the hilarious Rebecca Horan from AA Roadwatch!

Whats with this we all business?
you saying everyone loves lyric fm ? yeah right....wonderful:rolleyes:

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 12:39PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

And TV doesn't?

Well, no, not really; we all gather round in the drawing room as a group, talking to each other about it and talking back at it: old-fashioned interactive television, I might call it, with a wry smile!

120_Minutes · 13-11-2011 12:45PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

Hugo, what connection do you have with rte?

You still seem unable to answer this question, yet you can answer all others.

Is your inability to answer an admission that you work for rte?

I am reminded of a certain interview given by a mr. Paxman .... I can ask it all day.

HugoBradyBrown · 13-11-2011 12:51PM

That was a distinctly one-sided Irish Times radio column yesterday, which has only now been drawn to my attention. Will Sir print letters of rebuttal, I wonder?

RTE and the Licence FEE

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