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RTE and the Licence FEE

12467…12

Comments

  • #92
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    "Rein", as it happens.

    Whoosh.
    Upon royal authority....... teacher.


  • #93
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    When dealing with a matter of just 165 euro per household (and not per individual, let it be noted)
    This is another stupid setup too, I know of a guy living with 5 other people, all 6 working on decent wages, yet they pay 1/6th the tax as a single person.

    99% of households are legally obliged to pay the licence (the figure is actually 99%), and in 2002, the rate of licence-fee evasion was estimated at 12% so I don't know why "in their wisdom" they do not just include it in normal taxation. Why have all the cost of admin collecting these fees and chasing down and prosecuting people, and further taking up airtime with ads saying they are going to catch you.
    the best radio and television that money can buy at the price we are prepared forced to pay.
    I bet they are scared senseless at the thought of it being a voluntary subscription.


  • #94
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    The licence should still exist but should not be mandatory and the rte channels should be an opt-in feature of your existing tv package.

    Nobody pays a voluntary tax, without incentives: see the National Lottery Tax on the poor for the leading case.

    The TV tax is set so low as to be imperceptible by people, particularly if they adopt one of the payment schemes elaborated with great creativity in recent times.

    More money coming in will mean better quality of output, new channels, new platforms, the possibility of recruiting new talent, more opulent coproductions with foreign PSB stations: the list is almost endless!


  • #95
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    rubadub wrote: »
    This is another stupid setup too, I know of a guy living with 5 other people, all 6 working on decent wages, yet they pay 1/6th the tax as a single person.

    99% of households are legally obliged to pay the licence (the figure is actually 99%), and in 2002, the rate of licence-fee evasion was estimated at 12% so I don't know why "in their wisdom" they do not just include it in normal taxation. Why have all the cost of admin collecting these fees and chasing down and prosecuting people, and further taking up airtime with ads saying they are going to catch you.


    I bet they are scared senseless at the thought of it being a voluntary subscription.

    I will check the figures on Monday, but it cannot on a commonsense basis be 99% who are liable for the TV tax, taking into account the population spread across age-groups, and the number of pensioners living in households with younger family members.

    It is not practicable to levy the tax on individuals, since an unethical minority could claim not to have a set. (I have a personal preference for an increase in general taxation, indexed, but this is not policy.)

    Voluntary subscription for a quality national service is a non-runner, quite frankly, and, I would suggest, a red herring intended to muddy the waters.


  • #96
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    particularly if they adopt one of the payment schemes elaborated with great creativity in recent times.

    As fresh as green shield stamps and toy store Christmas clubs.
    My, those RTE folks are creative...............


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  • #97
    sambuka41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭sambuka41


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    I am also aware - as, indeed, a simple consideration of the fact that RTE is a public sector organisation, held to the very highest ethical standards, would suggest to anyone else - that recruitment and promotion in RTE is conducted with the utmost probity, involving external assessment of candidates, and based on objective, quantifiable criteria where these are appropriate.

    With RTE, the best get in and the very best of the best rise to the top. The fact that private sector and illegal sector broadcasters spend their waking hours trying to get onto the air on national radio and TV is evidence enough that it is a meritocracy at the pinnacle of the Irish broadcasting pyramid. The fact that many of them fail in this ambition is evidence that stringent quality and ethical standards are applied.

    That is laughable, seriously where are you living? public sector organisation, ethical??? What??? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    And you are clearly deluded about the way RTE recruits. No one gets working there unless they are related to someone else who works there. This is common knowledge so you really look ridiculous by continuing to deny it. Are you honestly trying to say that Ryan is the best presenter in Ireland, that we would give him a prime time slot??


  • #98
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    mikom wrote: »
    As fresh as green shield stamps and toy store Christmas clubs.
    My, those RTE folks are creative...............

    An Post, actually, but all credit to them. Direct debits, quarterly payments; monthly payments. Excellent and painless!


  • #99
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    sambuka41 wrote: »
    That is laughable, seriously where are you living? public sector organisation, ethical??? What??? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    And you are clearly deluded about the way RTE recruits. No one gets working there unless they are related to someone else who works there. This is common knowledge so you really look ridiculous by continuing to deny it. Are you honestly trying to say that Ryan is the best presenter in Ireland, that we would give him a prime time slot??

    I cannot argue with a position like this.

    I have little regard for 'common knowledge', since, while it may be 'common', it is very rarely 'knowledge'.

    Nepotism is a foreign word in Montrose, let me assure you.


  • #100
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    I do not think it should ever be economics in the cultural domain, in fact.

    And, for Washington, think Carol, think Mark, think Charlie; this is what you cannot get from agency reports, the distinctive Irish interpretation, the careful selection of the issues that will resonate with our viewers.

    RTE is not deluded in any sense, and, indeed, with consultant and facilitator support, conducts extensive and ongoing self-examinations. Nobody is more self-critical as an organisation than RTE, let me assure you.

    OK Hugs. You've had your fun this weekend.;) The cultural domain is dictated by the economic domain - except in RTE. Fact. The 'distinctive Irish interpretation' is no longer economically viable. Seriously, who gives a fcuk?


  • #101
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    Because some citizens have less elevated tastes does not obviate the obligation on RTE to strive through clever scheduling to to dislodge them from their comfortable slough, and to give them the potential to aspire to something higher.
    What's on now?
    RTE1: Winning Streak
    RTE2: Strong-man arm wrestling contest

    I did enjoy the informative and unbiased documentary about the Ab Circle Pro though, will it be repeated again in the morning?


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  • #102
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »
    What's on now?
    RTE1: Winning Streak
    RTE2: Strong-man arm wrestling contest

    Yep. Saturday night 'Prime Time'. And then that tool O'Connor. Case closed.


  • #103
    fat__tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 587 ✭✭✭fat__tony


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    Location "Cork"!

    Well, going back as far as the 1970's, Cork, for some reason, gave a slight dip in the satisfaction figures with us. I sense it was second city syndrome, this longstanding appetite for what the more vocal down there used to call "de channels", meaning a ravening hunger for foreign television, rather than carefully crafted national output from Montrose. RTE 2 Television placated that for a while. We generally hear little from them now, I notice.

    Could you sound any more condescending?

    Take your snobbery and 'upper class' attitude elsewhere.


  • #104
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »
    What's on now?
    RTE1: Winning Streak
    RTE2: Strong-man arm wrestling contest

    I did enjoy the informative and unbiased documentary about the Ab Circle Pro though, will it be repeated again in the morning?

    Marty's on now? I forgot, with all this defensive work. I'm off!


  • #105
    UsernameInUse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭UsernameInUse


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    We have Joe, we have Marty on RTE Lyric FM, we have Ronan on the senior service, we have Frank McNamara on RTE Lyric FM, we have John Murray making the nation laugh, RTE Lyric FM is where people go to hear Gay on a Sunday afternoon, we have Ryan on RTE 2FM, we have Pat every morning, we have Marion at weekends, there's Andy many Saturday evenings, there is Miriam, Mike is back on RTE One, Pat is in his element on Frontline: this is the talent that the competition tries and fails to poach. Patriotism and loyalty keep the on-air talent here; the viewers and listeners should demonstrate the same cordial loyalty to their national station.

    Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.

    Stick with what you know and value what you have and pay the modest tax to allow us to continue to enjoy the     crème de la crème.

    You've completely lost touch with all reality.

    When I read shite like this, I immediately say to myself "F-ck this country and everyone living in it" before I realise that this simple minded crap is not representative of the whole country.


  • #106
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    Marty's on now? I forgot, with all this defensive work. I'm off!

    Don't forget your tail.


  • #107
    rubadub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    I will check the figures on Monday, but it cannot on a commonsense basis be 99% who are liable for the TV tax, taking into account the population spread across age-groups, and the number of pensioners living in households with younger family members.
    Yes, I forgot about the "free licences". My point is 99% of households have a TV, yet they are still acting as though its a luxury item which few homes possess. Its a ridiculous situation, imagine I could just decide not to pay my income tax and hide behind the curtain when the taxman came around to my house once every few years.

    You bring up another ridiculous point too, if a pensioner is in a house with plenty of wealthy working people they pay no licence fee, it's farcical.
    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    It is not practicable to levy the tax on individuals, since an unethical minority could claim not to have a set.
    They should not even make it an option to not pay it, 99% have them. Just have it in general taxation, like plenty of other services where they presume most people will be availing of the service e.g. footpaths. The fee doesn't just go on TV related stuff anyway.

    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    Voluntary subscription for a quality national service is a non-runner, quite frankly
    Thats pretty much what they have in place at the moment. Except the non payers DO get to use the service.

    In a poll a while ago 42.64% members here claimed not to pay the licence.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68087686

    I don't see why its a non-runner, you keep going on about how amazingly good it is, and at such a low cost, surely almost everybody would be subscribing to such a good offer.


  • #108
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    rubadub wrote: »
    Yes, I forgot about the "free licences". My point is 99% of households have a TV, yet they are still acting as though its a luxury item which few homes possess. Its a ridiculous situation, imagine I could just decide not to pay my income tax and hide behind the curtain when the taxman came around to my house once every few years.

    You bring up another ridiculous point too, if a pensioner is in a house with plenty of wealthy working people they pay no licence fee, it's farcical.

    They should not even make it an option to not pay it, 99% have them. Just have it in general taxation, like plenty of other services where they presume most people will be availing of the service e.g. footpaths. The fee doesn't just go on TV related stuff anyway.


    Thats pretty much what they have in place at the moment. Except the non payers DO get to use the service.

    In a poll a while ago 42.64% members here claimed not to pay the licence.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68087686

    I don't see why its a non-runner, you keep going on about how amazingly good it is, and at such a low cost, surely almost everybody would be subscribing to such a good offer.


    (I return from seeing the Streakers, where the entire national audience was in an uproar of vicarious competitiveness in sympathy with the dashing and good-natured Streakers, and where the feature on Scouting for boys was both humbling and inspiring, to see the voluntary effort of the scoutmasters, as Mart said.)

    People will always fail to pay tax. I sense that the cumbersome system may itself have a depressing force on the level of compliance, since people may intend to pay over-the-counter, and fail to do so because of inconvenience. This may be remedied.

    As I say, I myself believe that the service should be funded by an index-linked block grant from the Exchequer, out of general taxation. Since some people dislike such funding, we may need to introduce a hypothecated arrangement, where, for example, cinema tickets could be levied at 50 cents, or CD's by 50 cents, or video rentals by 50 cents, or a bottle of wine by 50 cents, or text messages, or music downloads, or a pint of beer by 5 cents, or cigarettes by a Euro, or some such other luxury item could be seen to bear the cost of providing the best radio and television in the country. These and similar ideas about hypothecation are considered every year and, some day, are bound to win acceptance.


  • #109
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    ^ ^ ^
    Hugo Brady Brown.


  • #110
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    Johro wrote: »
    ^ ^ ^
    Hugo Brady Brown.

    Que? :confused:


  • #111
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    Que? :confused:
    Yeah I don't know either...


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  • #112
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    Johro wrote: »
    Yeah I don't know either...

    This is an utterly pointless waste of my valuable time.


  • #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hugo, what is your connection with RTE?


  • #114
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    This is an utterly pointless waste of my valuable time.
    Acknowledged.


  • #115
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I agree with HugoBradyBrown.
    The licence is essential.

    When I go to jail for not paying it, I'll need something to pass the time.
    Thankfully Mountjoy provides tvs in every cell, and the tv licence helps to pay for the programming I'll be watching.


  • #116
    pconn062
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Going back to the original question, I think the ads should be dropped from RTE, if the BBC can survive with TV license revenue only then so can RTE, it would just involve a change of system (which by the way, I don't think this will ever happen)


  • #117
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    Terry wrote: »
    I agree with HugoBradyBrown.
    The licence is essential.

    When I go to jail for not paying it, I'll need something to pass the time.
    Thankfully Mountjoy provides tvs in every cell, and the tv licence helps to pay for the programming I'll be watching.

    Well, that is perhaps taking things to an extreme! :)

    Did Flann O Brien have a character who used to carry his wireless set out to the married sister's in Skerries when he went on his holidays, and live for two weeks in terror of being caught by the inspector, since the married sister had neither a set of her own nor a licence?


  • #118
    HugoBradyBrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 547 ✭✭✭HugoBradyBrown


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Going back to the original question, I think the ads should be dropped from RTE, if the BBC can survive with TV license revenue only then so can RTE, it would just involve a change of system (which by the way, I don't think this will ever happen)

    Again, we are lost in the parochialism of thinking that Britain's models of funding are the norm. Ireland's is a small market, incapable of sustaining good television from the TV tax alone, but equally incapable of funding high quality television from advertising revenue alone. We are, unfortunately, caught in needing both revenue streams, with further income generated from RTE Sales. I appreciate the good intention of the question, and am sorry to have to undermine its naive argument within minutes.


  • #119
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    I have a freeview box. It receives all the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and film channels and a lot more besides, but no Irish TV channels. Not a one.
    It feels somewhat idiotic to have to pay a licence fee to RTE, but I do it because I have to. Reluctantly.


  • #120
    pconn062
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,373 ✭✭✭pconn062


    HugoBradyBrown wrote: »
    Again, we are lost in the parochialism of thinking that Britain's models of funding are the norm. Ireland's is a small market, incapable of sustaining good television from the TV tax alone, but equally incapable of funding high quality television from advertising revenue alone. We are, unfortunately, caught in needing both revenue streams, with further income generated from RTE Sales. I appreciate the good intention of the question, and am sorry to have to undermine its naive argument within minutes.

    I appreciate your point, but again its a redundant argument because it is never going to happen.


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  • #121
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Going back to the original question, I think the ads should be dropped from RTE, if the BBC can survive with TV license revenue only then so can RTE, it would just involve a change of system (which by the way, I don't think this will ever happen)
    Would be great alright. But really, TV is designed to make us buy stuff, like good little consumers. Those pesky entertainment programmes just get in the way of the ads.


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