RTE and the Licence FEE

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 02:36PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Far from it. Cast your eyes North indeed. How many are employed at BBC NI? Not the thousands that are at 'work' in RTE. The fact of the matter is that, in today's modern era, RTE is a dinosaur. Outdated shows, outdated work practices, and an overinflated wage bill - being paid for by Joe Public.

Give them the licence fee, withdraw their advertising revenue, and make them live in the real world. Who cares whether Tubridy, Kenny, et al are on the air or not. Many of us couldn't give a toss.

TWO THOUSAND EMPLOYED??!! FFS:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pay-cuts-loom-at-station-as-staff-reject-cost-plans-2932955.html

If young and angry people feel like this, it is their prerogative. However, those of us of a more mature generation, with a lifetime of paying tax and of working to ensure that we have cultural public services of the very highest quality, have a legitimately different perspective. And when the young and furious are more mature, they too will welcome Ryan and Pat and Marian and Miriam and the host of others. I always find it amusing that those whose cultural life once extended no farther than the conveniences in ‘Break for the Border’ become in their middle years avid viewers of output like Reeling in the Years. And that is just the first step.

We must not be dictated to by loud, choleric outbursts by juvenile opinion, but we should respect the taste, discrimination and appreciation of the more mature and reflective audience. (And the figures for last night’s particularly fine edition of the Late Show will bear my argument out.)

To paraphrase Muriel Spark, “for those who like that kind of thing, that is the kind of thing they like’.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 02:40PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

I'll have half an ounce if what Hugo is on, and I'll use the €160 I don't pay rte to buy it...

Location "Cork"!

Well, going back as far as the 1970's, Cork, for some reason, gave a slight dip in the satisfaction figures with us. I sense it was second city syndrome, this longstanding appetite for what the more vocal down there used to call "de channels", meaning a ravening hunger for foreign television, rather than carefully crafted national output from Montrose. RTE 2 Television placated that for a while. We generally hear little from them now, I notice.

Badgermonkey · 12-11-2011 02:42PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

(I trust I have not intruded on a trolling game?)

Intruded, No.

It would seem you've assumed the role of Ringmaster.

Or perhaps, Clown.

this is the talent that the competition tries and fails to poach. Patriotism and loyalty keep the on-air talent here; the viewers and listeners should demonstrate the same cordial loyalty to their national station.

we have Frank McNamara on RTE Lyric FM, we have John Murray making the nation laugh...we have Ryan on RTE 2FM,

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 02:44PM

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Intruded, No.

It would seem you've assumed the role of Ringmaster.

Or perhaps, Clown.

Withdraw, sir, I say. Withdraw!

Minstrel27 · 12-11-2011 02:48PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Far from it. Cast your eyes North indeed. How many are employed at BBC NI? Not the thousands that are at 'work' in RTE.

And BBC NI takes absolutely nothing from England, Scotland or Wales? The licence fee in Northern Ireland doesn't go exclusively to the BBC in NI.

Did you know that the Irish licence doesn't go exclusively to RTÉ?

Mike 1972 · 12-11-2011 02:49PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Without the RTCEO, for example, could we ever again stage the Eurovision Song Contest.

Oh the Humanity ! :rolleyes:

120_Minutes · 12-11-2011 02:51PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

120_Minutes wrote: »

I'll have half an ounce if what Hugo is on, and I'll use the €160 I don't pay rte to buy it...

Location "Cork"!

Well, going back as far as the 1970's, Cork, for some reason, gave a slight dip in the satisfaction figures with us. I sense it was second city syndrome, this longstanding appetite for what the more vocal down there used to call "de channels", meaning a ravening hunger for foreign television, rather than carefully crafted national output from Montrose. RTE 2 Television placated that for a while. We generally hear little from them now, I notice.

I am not a native. Try again.

Rte's self produced output is usually horribly parochial, and in my opinion is laughable when compared on the world stage. They can't even get comedy right, which, given that we can be the funniest people on the planet is unforgivable.

Rte have the ability to turn any original material they get their hands on toxic, a lot of up and coming talent know this, and use rte for just long enough to gain enough exposure to be noticed abroad.... Then they're gone.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 02:52PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Oh the Humanity ! :rolleyes:

On the contrary, RTE is a 'light shining in the darkness'.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 02:55PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

I am not a native. Try again.

Rte's self produced output is usually horribly parochial, and in my opinion is laughable when compared on the world stage. They can't even get comedy right, which, given that we can be the funniest people on the planet is unforgivable.

Rte have the ability to turn any original material they get their hands on toxic, a lot of up and coming talent know this, and use rte for just long enough to gain enough exposure to be noticed abroad.... Then they're gone.

The above is a considered, reasonable and well-theorised position, which will obviously change many views.

Could I just trouble the poster for the references on which she or he bases the argument, since they must be quite substantial, objective and convincing? Since I have never seen such evidence before, I am troubled that I have missed such wisdom in my own area.

parrai · 12-11-2011 02:58PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

On the contrary, RTE is a 'light shining in the darkness'.

DLB??? Could it be you?

120_Minutes · 12-11-2011 03:03PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

120_Minutes wrote: »

I am not a native. Try again.

Rte's self produced output is usually horribly parochial, and in my opinion is laughable when compared on the world stage. They can't even get comedy right, which, given that we can be the funniest people on the planet is unforgivable.

Rte have the ability to turn any original material they get their hands on toxic, a lot of up and coming talent know this, and use rte for just long enough to gain enough exposure to be noticed abroad.... Then they're gone.

The above is a considered, reasonable and well-theorised position, which will obviously change many views.

Could I just trouble the poster for the references on which she or he bases the argument, since they must be quite substantial, objective and convincing? Since I have never seen such evidence before, I am troubled that I have missed such wisdom in my own area.

I spoke with a couple of individuals, who started out as "indie" in their fields, before rte took an interest. I will not name them or their genres here, but my evidence is not anecdotal.

I am also personal friends with one part of an established group, who actually surprised me when I was told the leeway rte had granted them in certain circumstances, if you want the flip side. But perhaps they had power as they were a bit of a cash cow for a while.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 03:08PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

I spoke with a couple of individuals, who started out as "indie" in their fields, before rte took an interest. I will not name them or their genres here, but my evidence is not anecdotal.

I am also personal friends with one part of an established group, who actually surprised me when I was told the leeway rte had granted them in certain circumstances, if you want the flip side. But perhaps they had power as they were a bit of a cash cow for a while.

I will assume that the quoted post is some sort of gnomic preamble which is going to lead in the fulness of time to a systematic and logical answer to the question that I posed.

Hard, isn't it, once you get down to trying to provide evidence?

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 03:11PM

parrai wrote: »

DLB??? Could it be you?

No, I am not a Dictionary of Literary Biography; I would have thought the allusion in the post by Mike 1972 was as plain as the noses on our faces. Perhaps I am in an unusually non-literary thread in a cultural area. O tempora o mores!

Wertz · 12-11-2011 03:20PM

Jaysis Hugo, I love how you brush aside any criticism with some scarcely disguised snipe at youth culture, or in your view, a lack of that culture.
Many on these forums, especially the posters that go out of their way to post more than a one line witticism are themselves well past the disco going age and are only too aware of the need of a PSB who caters to the needs of all and not just those whom RTÉ perceive themselves as representing.

Your aspersions toward BBC NI are quite laughable too...their news output is adequate for the size of their populace which is a third of the Republic and the level of reporting is handled very well by an awful lot smaller of a team of staff than that available to RTÉ news. Do we even need an 55 minute bulletin in the evenings?
Their weather bulletin for the province rests on the back of the much larger BBC weather team and the UK Met office. Our own own weather forecast relies for much of it's material on Met Eireann who I'm fairly sure are funded from general taxation and commercial interests rather than through the licence fee.
Their (admittedly more expensive) licence fee goes toward a lot more stations, with the subsequent return in quality programming and the "provincial" output extends well past news and weather, if you bothered to look...they have a multitude of sports and political programming as well as niche cultural output (to the dismay of many a Sky customer in the republic it would seem, who don't like BBC NI regional output).

Your objective to curry favour for the national flagship station over in the TV and Radio forums (of which some could be construed as thinly veiled spamming) has seemingly moved to the wider audience of Boards... don't be surprised with the level of more honest and spiteful rebuttals, probably in the forum's own vernacular, of your views on RTÉ.
there are those of us who would once again ask you to declare your interests surrounding continual promotion of the station and your lack on input on any non-RTÉ related matters on these message boards...

texidub · 12-11-2011 03:22PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.[/I]

:pac: You are serious, aren't you? A galaxy of talent? More like a black hole of mediocrity.

As for 'patriotic listeners'?! People don't run down RTE television because it's Irish. They run it down because it is crap and because they are forced to pay for it to amuse people with low standards like yourself.

Yo! Sincerely,

TexiGodwotteryLoveyDarlingDub

Italia · 12-11-2011 03:34PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

On the contrary, RTE is a 'light shining in the darkness'.

Jeez.... Do you REALLY believe that crap?

Because of the work I do, I've lived in many countries (about 14 at last count) and I can safely say that in general public broadcasters suck when it comes to entertainment quality.
Public broadcasters are there not only to fulfil a role of entertainment but, perhaps more importantly, to ensure that basic comunication and news is offered to as wide a cross-section of the population - from the haves to the not so well off. In that role, they cannot be beaten. That does not mean that the public should be funding this. It is a responsibility of the government to fund this or they need to get it from advertising.

Compared to other public broadcasters, RTE is definitely not "a light shining in the darkness". It's more like a mutual admiration society with a good dose of self-backslapping and a generous helping of cronyism. It's all so very staid and smug. Its almost like being in a time warp and watching something out of the 1950's. :rolleyes:
The presenters are paid an an absolute fortune for the drivel they put out. A small example (and not such a great one at that) - watch ANY football or rugby game.... the panel discussing the game. An utter joke. Inane comments at best.

120_Minutes · 12-11-2011 03:40PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

120_Minutes wrote: »

I spoke with a couple of individuals, who started out as "indie" in their fields, before rte took an interest. I will not name them or their genres here, but my evidence is not anecdotal.

I am also personal friends with one part of an established group, who actually surprised me when I was told the leeway rte had granted them in certain circumstances, if you want the flip side. But perhaps they had power as they were a bit of a cash cow for a while.

I will assume that the quoted post is some sort of gnomic preamble which is going to lead in the fulness of time to a systematic and logical answer to the question that I posed.

Hard, isn't it, once you get down to trying to provide evidence?

I have provided you your evidence, told to me by the persons involved. I have omitted their names as they are/were in the employ of rte.

When I was of school going age in the early 90's ( so I'm not as young as you probably assumed I was) I had an interest in working for rte, and quickly found out the only way in was to know someone. Which I did, and got two days work experience there. I enjoyed it, but wouldn't have gotten a sniff of the place had I not known anyone.

In hindsight I'm glad I never persued it.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 03:40PM

Wertz wrote: »

Jaysis Hugo, I love how you brush aside any criticism with some scarcely disguised snipe at youth culture, or in your view, a lack of that culture.
Many on these forums, especially the posters that go out of their way to post more than a one line witticism are themselves well past the disco going age and are only too aware of the need of a PSB who caters to the needs of all and not just those whom RTÉ perceive themselves as representing.

Your aspersions toward BBC NI are quite laughable too...their news output is adequate for the size of their populace which is a third of the Republic and the level of reporting is handled very well by an awful lot smaller of a team of staff than that available to RTÉ news. Do we even need an 55 minute bulletin in the evenings?
Their weather bulletin for the province rests on the back of the much larger BBC weather team and the UK Met office. Our own own weather forecast relies for much of it's material on Met Eireann who I'm fairly sure are funded from general taxation and commercial interests rather than through the licence fee.
Their (admittedly more expensive) licence fee goes toward a lot more stations, with the subsequent return in quality programming and the "provincial" output extends well past news and weather, if you bothered to look...they have a multitude of sports and political programming as well as niche cultural output (to the dismay of many a Sky customer in the republic it would seem, who don't like BBC NI regional output).

Your objective to curry favour for the national flagship station over in the TV and Radio forums (of which some could be construed as thinly veiled spamming) has seemingly moved to the wider audience of Boards... don't be surprised with the level of more honest and spiteful rebuttals, probably in the forum's own vernacular, of your views on RTÉ.
there are those of us who would once again ask you to declare your interests surrounding continual promotion of the station and your lack on input on any non-RTÉ related matters on these message boards...

Thank you, Wertz, for dilating at such length on this issue. I have contributed to other threads on many other topics, but I do believe in a cobbler sticking to his (or her) last.

I rebut with indignation any suggestion that my carefully considered, consistent and reasonable posts meet in the smallest degree the definition of spamming.

BBCNI / UTV current affairs in general (save when a tranche of funds is disbursed from central funds for 'specials' with 'mainland appeal') are studio-bound talking-heads TV, with participants drawn in on a buggins-turn basis and aired twice in a night at dead times; the end-credits taxi-driver segment is a voiceover on a piece of unchanging VT, for example. Good frugal stuff, but nothing like the quality from Montrose, which is prepared to spend appropriately on, for example, in-depth analysis and investigative work.

Comedy: think Scrap Saturday, Hall's Pictorial, Green Tea, Mrs O'Brien: meeting the needs of different audiences at different times in different eras, i.e. sharply focussed agile broadcasting, turning on a sixpence to follow its audience in the vagaries of its taste.

Sport: who can even think of comparing the range of coverage on radio, TV and other platforms, down to, until recently, the Gaelic Games results on the senior service on a Sunday evening? "Seo agaibh anois príomh-thoraí an lae inniu", if we remember fondly, down to parish level. Diaspora and internal migrant PSB at its very finest, I should say.

Anything I missed?

120_Minutes · 12-11-2011 03:42PM

Comedy: think Scrap Saturday, Hall's Pictorial, Green Tea, Mrs O'Brien: meeting the needs of different audiences at different times in different eras, i.e. sharply focussed agile broadcasting, turning on a sixpence to follow its audience in the vagaries of its taste.

All dead and gone. And o'brien was terrible.

Currently aired examples please.

parrai · 12-11-2011 03:43PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

No, I am not a Dictionary of Literary Biography; I would have thought the allusion in the post by Mike 1972 was as plain as the noses on our faces. Perhaps I am in an unusually non-literary thread in a cultural area. O tempora o mores!

lol fair play

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 03:49PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

I have provided you your evidence, told to me by the persons involved. I have omitted their names as they are/were in the employ of rte.

This is not evidence; it hardly qualifies as hearsay. It is subjective rehearsal of anecdote, with no statistical, objective or logical content sufficient to sustain an argument.

120_Minutes wrote: »

... in the early 90's ... I had an interest in working for rte, and quickly found out the only way in was to know someone. Which I did, and got two days work experience there. I enjoyed it, but wouldn't have gotten a sniff of the place had I not known anyone.

The quoted is, I am reluctant to say, a highly tendentious post.

This is, to my certain knowledge, inaccurate. RTE is and always has been a meritocracy in terms of recruitment & promotion, as well, indeed, as in terms of programme production and scheduling.

The quote is reminiscent of what one heard in the past in the more far-flung parts of the country, where a boy or girl who was considered good in local amateur drama failed to get a post as a continuity announcer in the 1960's, and an entire parish decided on that basis that Teilifís Éireann was being filled with the acquaintances of Hilton Edwards. A comforting myth for the disappointed, perhaps, but not the real world. The aim was and is to get and keep the best and do away with the rest!

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 03:51PM

120_Minutes wrote: »

Comedy: think Scrap Saturday, Hall's Pictorial, Green Tea, Mrs O'Brien: meeting the needs of different audiences at different times in different eras, i.e. sharply focussed agile broadcasting, turning on a sixpence to follow its audience in the vagaries of its taste.

All dead and gone. And o'brien was terrible.

Currently aired examples please.

I'm not in comedy, myself, so I cannot assist on this one, I'm afraid. But, I would commend the Guide to you; the best organ of its kind, filled to the brim with data on the output, and more.

(I believe Mrs O'Brien was on everyone's lips in its time.)

Badgermonkey · 12-11-2011 03:55PM

Wertz wrote: »

Your aspersions toward BBC NI are quite laughable too...their news output is adequate for the size of their populace which is a third of the Republic and the level of reporting is handled very well by an awful lot smaller of a team of staff than that available to RTÉ news.

Honourable mention to the excellent Noel Thompson & Hearts and Minds for providing hard-hitting. oft-compelling viewing over a long period - Not an easy task given the spiky and taciturn players involved in the NI peace process.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 04:05PM

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Honourable mention to the excellent Noel Thompson & Hearts and Minds for providing hard-hitting. oft-compelling viewing over a long period - Not an easy task given the spiky and taciturn players involved in the NI peace process.

Well, yes, it was good enough stuff of its kind, clearly made on a shoestring, but it was in effect a radio studio with a camera pointed at it. Think of the visual complexity and richness that a properly-funded operation like RTE News & Current Affairs is capable of brining to the viewer, because of the proper apportionment of the license fee. TV is a visual medium, inviting in the half-interested and converting them; H&M was a programme for political 'junkies', rather like BBC2's Newsnight, rather than PSB for the mass of the population.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 04:20PM

texidub wrote: »

:pac: You are serious, aren't you? A galaxy of talent? More like a black hole of mediocrity.

As for 'patriotic listeners'?! People don't run down RTE television because it's Irish. They run it down because it is crap and because they are forced to pay for it to amuse people with low standards like yourself.

Yo! Sincerely,

TexiGodwotteryLoveyDarlingDub

This comment reminds me of what those schoolboys in Private Eye used to say about Sir James Goldsmith, the entrepreneur: "we don't hate Goldsmith because he's Jewish, we hate him because he's German". I feel some people detest RTE because it is our own, and an inferiority complex makes them imagine that there is something better available at the same or lower cost elsewhere. We have the problem of being up against the best broadcasting services in the world in the adjoining island. Give hot-air French television, or studiously boring German television or, heaven help us, privately-controlled 'PSB' Italian television a quick military squint and then come back here and say that RTE isn't on top of the heap.

And another thing: I think that since straight-talking self-employed middle-of-the-road people like Gay and Pat agree with me, my tastes are hardly unusual. Neither are they low.

goose2005 · 12-11-2011 05:31PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

It is a tax, an extremely modest tax, paid by people of sufficient income and below a certain age. A progressive tax, yielding public good rewards of far greater multipliers in terms of quality, utility and happiness than many another tax.

It's not progressive, it's regressive because people pay the same fee no matter what their income (unless they are very poor, in which case the Dept of Social Protection pays for Tubridy's caviar).

rubadub · 12-11-2011 05:59PM

I am not sure what to vote for. I would like no licence fee at all, if I am legally obliged to pay the fee then I certainly want adverts otherwise the fee would have to be higher.

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.

If they are so envious you would think these broadcasters would poach more of them. I doubt many of them would be paid the same if RTE did not exist.

I have used the analogy before of having a cooker licence, I expect 99% of homes have a cooker too. The government could issue households with recipes and/or food for the bargain €160 per year. If you do not like the recipes/food then STFU, just bin it, let it go to waste, like unwatched TV, someone out there might enjoy the food, nobody is forcing you to eat it, just forcing you to pay for it. We could get some unknown chef and in 10 years time he might be on a million euro, but sure he's worth it.

People are watching these programs, maybe they do not have much choice of channels. If there were allowed spend that €160 on other subscription channels or had the money to buy dvds they might not be watching fair city.

But it is presumed they do like it. I expect if they forced people to have the cooker licence people might eat food they do not particularly like just to not let it go to waste, and since they already paid for it and cannot afford an alternative. This must be kept in mind when analysing viewing figures.

Since it has been around for most peoples lives they just accept it, there are no TV licences in many countries.

I still pay my licence as not doing so is no different from stealing from my friends & family, non fee payers are theiving worthless scumbags. Its odd that some of these robbing cunts even have the nerve to brag about it.

mikom · 12-11-2011 06:03PM

Licence money being wasted on shills.
Tesco-valuepack Stephen Fry shills at that.
RTE should be ashamed of themselves.

120_Minutes · 12-11-2011 06:13PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

120_Minutes wrote: »

I have provided you your evidence, told to me by the persons involved. I have omitted their names as they are/were in the employ of rte.

This is not evidence; it hardly qualifies as hearsay. It is subjective rehearsal of anecdote, with no statistical, objective or logical content sufficient to sustain an argument.

120_Minutes wrote: »

... in the early 90's ... I had an interest in working for rte, and quickly found out the only way in was to know someone. Which I did, and got two days work experience there. I enjoyed it, but wouldn't have gotten a sniff of the place had I not known anyone.

The quoted is, I am reluctant to say, a highly tendentious post.

This is, to my certain knowledge, inaccurate. RTE is and always has been a meritocracy in terms of recruitment & promotion, as well, indeed, as in terms of programme production and scheduling.

The quote is reminiscent of what one heard in the past in the more far-flung parts of the country, where a boy or girl who was considered good in local amateur drama failed to get a post as a continuity announcer in the 1960's, and an entire parish decided on that basis that Teilifís Éireann was being filled with the acquaintances of Hilton Edwards. A comforting myth for the disappointed, perhaps, but not the real world. The aim was and is to get and keep the best and do away with the rest!

So basically, because what I'm saying isn't what you want to hear, you're calling me a liar.

psychward · 12-11-2011 06:29PM

goose2005 wrote: »

It's not progressive, it's regressive because people pay the same fee no matter what their income (unless they are very poor, in which case the Dept of Social Protection pays for Tubridy's caviar).

Being very poor isn't taken as an excuse for not having a TV license. As far as I know , only pensioners and those on disability get it waivered. The former do not tend to be poor. The latter could be richer than the long term unemployed depending on who you talk to.

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

It is a tax, an extremely modest tax, paid by people of sufficient income and below a certain age. A progressive tax, yielding public good rewards of far greater multipliers in terms of quality, utility and happiness than many another tax.

Delusional shill. Shove your unfair tax where the sun don't shine. Whats this blatant lie about ''sufficient income'' doing on the thread ?
You have to pay the TV license even if you have a TV but zero income. Even bankrupts have to pay it.
I watch Satellite TV from companies I pay for directly and watch zero RTE which doesnt bother to put itself on satellite due to jealously guarding its Eastenders viewer patch, and why would I watch RTE anyway when they were running soviet politburo style ''patriotic'' documentaries about Irish peasants toiling in the potato fields while the IMF were entering the country ignored so take your cultural fascist tax and shove it up your hole.

RTE and the Licence FEE

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