RTE and the Licence FEE

Freddie59 · 12-11-2011 10:31AM #1

Should RTE be relieved of their dual income (advertising and the licence fee)?

I believe so. 100%.

Mint Sauce · 12-11-2011 10:34AM

Care to elaborate?

senorwipesalot · 12-11-2011 10:35AM

Yeah ,sick of paying for that sh1te when I dont even watch it.

RachaelVO · 12-11-2011 10:42AM

Course they should, then lets see Pat Kenny and Joe Duffy command those high salaries... they'd soon be changing their tunes!

AG2R · 12-11-2011 10:44AM

irish-stew wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

I'm guessing he is getting at that RTE are our chief broadcaster and in the UK BBC(their chief broadcaster) isn't allowed to advertise as they get the TV license fee. Nah I say let RTE have both.

senorwipesalot · 12-11-2011 11:06AM

AG2R wrote: »

I'm guessing he is getting at that RTE are our chief broadcaster and in the UK BBC(their chief broadcaster) isn't allowed to advertise as they get the TV license fee. Nah I say let RTE have both.

Thats you Pat,isnt it?

El Weirdo · 12-11-2011 12:01PM

AG2R wrote: »

I'm guessing he is getting at that RTE are our chief broadcaster and in the UK BBC(their chief broadcaster) isn't allowed to advertise as they get the TV license fee. Nah I say let RTE have both.

But there's the small matter of population size. You can't compare the two.

AG2R · 12-11-2011 12:03PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

But there's the small matter of population size. You can't compare the two.

Hence why I said let them have both

Borderfox · 12-11-2011 12:04PM

Advertisements and sh*te programs, cut them off at the knees

upandcumming · 12-11-2011 12:20PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

But there's the small matter of population size. You can't compare the two.

We have about 1.8 million homes in Ireland, where in the UK they have about 22 million. Can't compare the two.

RachaelVO · 12-11-2011 12:21PM

AG2R wrote: »

Hence why I said let them have both

Why should they have both when TV3 don't?

My name is URL · 12-11-2011 12:30PM

I wouldn't mind paying a license fee if we were getting something decent in return. Instead we get Ballsy O'Connor & Tubridy interviewing their own RTE colleagues while we pay for to listen to them bleat on about the stuff they do which we're also paying for. It's a joke.

Also, Derek Mooney.. wtf

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 12:34PM

I am loath to intrude on this discussion, but I feel it needs to be pointed out that for the price of the Racing Post a couple of times a week you get two full TV services, many radio services (including RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta and RTE Luric FM, value-added services on multiple platforms, Aertel, the two orchestras, a vast and rich archive and library, podcasts, RTE Player, some SW broadcasts when required, and much more. In addition,and at no cost from the TV tax, there are other fine services, such as the RTE Guide. (In addition, we sustain the infrastructure to allow other potential competitors to operate in the market.)

24 hour broadcasting, with the finest of production staff and of on-air talent, at a cost that is, in objective terms, in fact marginally too low. The cost ought to increase to 200 Euro immediately, with a gradual increase thereafter to 250 Euro, in order to continue to meet the quality and quantity demands of the audience, and the parallel demands of the professional personnel who know how to and want to deliver even more, even better.

(I trust I have not intruded on a trolling game?)

Borderfox · 12-11-2011 12:35PM

upandcumming wrote: »

We have about 1.8 million homes in Ireland, where in the UK they have about 22 million. Can't compare the two.

When you look at it that way RTE is proportionally sh*te in comparision to BBC by the equivalent factor so it evens out the population numbers

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 12:44PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I wouldn't mind paying a license fee if we were getting something decent in return. Instead we get Ballsy O'Connor & Tubridy interviewing their own RTE colleagues while we pay for to listen to them bleat on about the stuff they do which we're also paying for. It's a joke.

Also, Derek Mooney.. wtf

(I find it hard to believe that this is not simply provocative posting calculated to get under the skin of patriotic listeners and viewers, but I cannot resist correcting the record.)

Derek is, as it happens, a highly gifted broadcaster, who has adapted to a dead time of day to enliven life for us. He is equally capable of much more serious broadcasting, as his scientific background would lead one to suspect.

We have Joe, we have Marty on RTE Lyric FM, we have Ronan on the senior service, we have Frank McNamara on RTE Lyric FM, we have John Murray making the nation laugh, RTE Lyric FM is where people go to hear Gay on a Sunday afternoon, we have Ryan on RTE 2FM, we have Pat every morning, we have Marion at weekends, there's Andy many Saturday evenings, there is Miriam, Mike is back on RTE One, Pat is in his element on Frontline: this is the talent that the competition tries and fails to poach. Patriotism and loyalty keep the on-air talent here; the viewers and listeners should demonstrate the same cordial loyalty to their national station.

Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.

Stick with what you know and value what you have and pay the modest tax to allow us to continue to enjoy the crème de la crème.

desertcircus · 12-11-2011 12:45PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

I am loath to intrude on this discussion, but I feel it needs to be pointed out that for the price of the Racing Post a couple of times a week you get two full TV services, many radio services (including RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta and RTE Luric FM, value-added services on multiple platforms, Aertel, the two orchestras, a vast and rich archive and library, podcasts, RTE Player, some SW broadcasts when required, and much more. In addition,and at no cost from the TV tax, there are other fine services, such as the RTE Guide. (In addition, we sustain the infrastructure to allow other potential competitors to operate in the market.)

24 hour broadcasting, with the finest of production staff and of on-air talent, at a cost that is, in objective terms, in fact marginally too low. The cost ought to increase to 200 Euro immediately, with a gradual increase thereafter to 250 Euro, in order to continue to meet the quality and quantity demands of the audience, and the parallel demands of the professional personnel who know how to and want to deliver even more, even better.

(I trust I have intruded on a trolling game?)

Except I don't buy the Racing Post. Or watch much RTE television. Or listen to the radio. Or really make much if any use of the others. There's something to be said for the infrastructure, but that should probably be separated out from the rest.

desertcircus · 12-11-2011 12:47PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

My name is URL wrote: »

I wouldn't mind paying a license fee if we were getting something decent in return. Instead we get Ballsy O'Connor & Tubridy interviewing their own RTE colleagues while we pay for to listen to them bleat on about the stuff they do which we're also paying for. It's a joke.

Also, Derek Mooney.. wtf

(I find it hard to believe that this is not simply provocative posting calculated to get under the skin of patriotic listeners and viewers, but I cannot resist correcting the record.)

Derek is, as it happens, a highly gifted broadcaster, who has adapted to a dead time of day to enliven life for us. He is equally capable of much more serious broadcasting, as his scientific background would lead one to suspect.

We have Joe, we have Marty on RTE Lyric FM, we have Ronan on the senior service, we have Frank McNamara on RTE Lyric FM, we have John Murray making the nation laugh, RTE Lyric FM is where people go to hear Gay on a Sunday afternoon, we have Ryan on RTE 2FM, we have Pat every morning, we have Marion at weekends, there's Andy many Saturday evenings, there is Miriam, Mike is back on RTE One, Pat is in his element on Frontline: this is the talent that the competition tries and fails to poach. Patriotism and loyalty keep the on-air talent here; the viewers and listeners should demonstrate the same cordial loyalty to their national station.

Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.

Stick with what you know and value what you have and pay the modest tax to allow us to continue to enjoy the crème de la crème.

Who among those has been offered a better contract from another country and rejected it?

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 12:54PM

desertcircus wrote: »

Except I don't buy the Racing Post. Or watch much RTE television. Or listen to the radio. Or really make much if any use of the others. There's something to be said for the infrastructure, but that should probably be separated out from the rest.

The Racing Post is just a comparison that I find is understood by the majority of those who throw stones in this direction. Whether or not a person views or listens to the output, RTE is there for them. In any case, the cultural infrastructure of the orchestras, the archive, the libraries, the competitions and so forth is there for everyone. Without the RTCEO, for example, could we ever again stage the Eurovision Song Contest / Grand Prix? (We are hoping for great things from Baku, incidentally.)

It is the wisdom that those who think themselves far above RTE in their middle years are those who spend a quiet night in with the Late Show in the twilight of their lives. It's important that the service should be there for them, adequately but not opulently funded.

But, think Aertel, think the websites, think the Player, think a bit longer and it all becomes clear. For less than the price of a Sunday newspaper?!! Let us have some pride in what we do best and not throw away the jewel in the Public Service Broadcasting crown that is our inheritance from past generations of Irishmen and Irishwomen.

TheZohanS · 12-11-2011 12:57PM

senorwipesalot wrote: »

Yeah ,sick of paying for that sh1te when I dont even watch it.

It's a tax.

ejmaztec · 12-11-2011 12:57PM

desertcircus wrote: »

Who among those has been offered a better contract from another country and rejected it?

There are Irish people lured back from other countries with better contracts e.g. Miriam O'Callaghan, but I've never heard of the opposite happening.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 01:02PM

TheZohan wrote: »

It's a tax.

Yes, it is generally agreed, both inside and outside, that it is a tax. As a European, I find the loud American-style insistence that tax is evil hard to understand. We should be proud to pay taxes legitimately levied by our parliamentary representatives, whom we have elected to office.

It is a tax, an extremely modest tax, paid by people of sufficient income and below a certain age. A progressive tax, yielding public good rewards of far greater multipliers in terms of quality, utility and happiness than many another tax.

desertcircus · 12-11-2011 01:43PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

TheZohan wrote: »

It's a tax.

Yes, it is generally agreed, both inside and outside, that it is a tax. As a European, I find the loud American-style insistence that tax is evil hard to understand. We should be proud to pay taxes legitimately levied by our parliamentary representatives, whom we have elected to office.

It is a tax, an extremely modest tax, paid by people of sufficient income and below a certain age. A progressive tax, yielding public good rewards of far greater multipliers in terms of quality, utility and happiness than many another tax.

I have no problem with tax. There's a difference between objecting to a specific use of public funds and having a problem with taxation itself. I'm not convinced RTE delivers sufficient benefit to justify its funding. Between overpaid presenters, declining market share and, to be honest, a lack of need for the full range of what's done (does a population of four and a bit million really need three dedicated TV channels?), I don't see the case for keeping RTE as is. It's not nearly as central to Irish life as you think it is.

imitation · 12-11-2011 01:45PM

I think the TV license is fair as a certain amount of broadcast media should be supported by the state, and just like car tax only those who pay should use. I think they way it is handled should be changed though, currently we have 3 state owned channels and one private sector one.

The fact one channel is state subsidised and the other is not skews things too much. I think the state should retain the broadcast infrastructure and keep a channel or two for public interest (News/Documentrys etc). The rest should be cut loose and the market can decide.

Why should our taxes be spent on expensive cable TV shows so the private sector competition can be beaten down? The state can then tender out any jobs for movies / programmes to the cheapest bidder.

Freddie59 · 12-11-2011 01:49PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

But there's the small matter of population size. You can't compare the two.

Then you have to cut your cloth. End of story. Give them the licence fee money and it's up to themselves what they do with it. No advertising. No further State subvention.

As you have pointed out, there is a matter of population size. So the Orchestras, the endless (and I mean ENDLESS) amount of correspondents (just watch the main News anytime there's a crisis and see how many are wheeled out - and where they are located); and the other wastage that is RTE would have to stop.

We are not America. We are not the UK. Stop trying to compete. It's this mentality that has Ireland where it is. Would it really matter anyway?

Freddie59 · 12-11-2011 01:51PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

(I find it hard to believe that this is not simply provocative posting calculated to get under the skin of patriotic listeners and viewers, but I cannot resist correcting the record.)

Derek is, as it happens, a highly gifted broadcaster, who has adapted to a dead time of day to enliven life for us. He is equally capable of much more serious broadcasting, as his scientific background would lead one to suspect.

We have Joe, we have Marty on RTE Lyric FM, we have Ronan on the senior service, we have Frank McNamara on RTE Lyric FM, we have John Murray making the nation laugh, RTE Lyric FM is where people go to hear Gay on a Sunday afternoon, we have Ryan on RTE 2FM, we have Pat every morning, we have Marion at weekends, there's Andy many Saturday evenings, there is Miriam, Mike is back on RTE One, Pat is in his element on Frontline: this is the talent that the competition tries and fails to poach. Patriotism and loyalty keep the on-air talent here; the viewers and listeners should demonstrate the same cordial loyalty to their national station.

Behind the mics and behind the cameras, RTE is also awash with talent that is the envy of broadcasters the world over.

Stick with what you know and value what you have and pay the modest tax to allow us to continue to enjoy the crème de la crème.

You're definitely a WUM. You hardly believe that shyte - or do you?

Wertz · 12-11-2011 01:52PM

Good man Hugo...you keep banging that jungle drum, but the natives are restless.

Your assertion on raising the license fee to €200+ like i told you on the 2FM thread is downright laughable and merely illustrate the insularity at work in the corridors of the Montrose buildings.
You do have a point on the upkeep of the broadcasting network itself, but I get the feeling that commercial broadcasters pay their share to utilise that infrastructure...and the sale of the spectrum after ASO will no doubt be a windfall to RTÉ or a subsidiary next year (open to correction here).

I will say one thing though... many people out there have no issue at all with paying Murdoch €320 per annum and multiples of that for heavily advert revenue dependent set of channels populated mainly by repeats and free to air UK channels (sports&movie packages notwithstanding), a company that pays very little back in to the Irish exchequer and has no remit for any type of Irish PSB.

Their frustration (and mine) at the high levels of pay to RTÉ's staff (both top names and a whole host of admin/support/production) is perfectly valid given the lacklustre return on much of the output (with some exceptions).
My name is URL has it spot on in regard to their w/e chatshows, which I don't watch and can't for the life of me understand how anyone does...it's painful the amount of backslapping, navel gazing and in-house reach arounds go on between programmes, shows and radio stations out there, whther it be self promotion, new books, or someone who's related to someone else getting a feature....all that kind of thing is nauseating when you're being legislatively forced to contribute a day or two's wages toward it (or the best part of a week's social welfare if you're in that boat)...Racing Times me arse. You might get a return on that investment...what would you get from the RTÉ guide only the same clap trap in a printed format?

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 02:01PM

desertcircus wrote: »

I have no problem with tax. There's a difference between objecting to a specific use of public funds and having a problem with taxation itself. I'm not convinced RTE delivers sufficient benefit to justify its funding. Between overpaid presenters, declining market share and, to be honest, a lack of need for the full range of what's done (does a population of four and a bit million really need three dedicated TV channels?), I don't see the case for keeping RTE as is. It's not nearly as central to Irish life as you think it is.

I find it appealing when questions are easily answered authoritatively, and particularly when a direct comparator is available, allowing for the illustration of that knockdown argument.

Let us cast our gaze north of the border, to a place with a population not too dissimilar to ours, and where the broad culture of the people, the population distribution, the general demographic picture and so forth are identical. There their radio and television are little more than regional opt-outs and adjuncts of larger broadcasters. They have quite primitive news and current affairs broadcasting, with nothing like the resources or talent pool available to us. What they call ‘local news’ is squeezed into the schedules early in the evening and in a brief burst late at night. Their own stories do not dominate their main news bulletins, but get put into a form of Nationwide at the end. Even their weather bulletin is a brief squint at 'the Province', and nothing like the full-on visualization provided to us here by Jean Byrne and her assistants.

Consider too that they have no broadcast orchestra, and feel the denuded cultural life that is their unfortunate lot.

And yet they, too, pay their own TV tax, to learn about the weather in Suffolk and salmonella outbreaks in Brighton at the top of the hour, rather than about events in Belfast or Dungannon.

If we hold ourselves out to be a distinct state, surely we need to hear and see our own stories, to have our Public Service Broadcaster facilitating us talking to ourselves. Indeed, we have President Higgins when he was a politician to thank for ensuring that in the Irish service, we have that available to us from Galway. Since the new Presidency is going to be themed around our distinct cultural gifts, it is more Public Service Broadcasting that we will require, rather than less.

The issue is, I submit, clearly closed.

upandcumming · 12-11-2011 02:11PM

Borderfox wrote: »

When you look at it that way RTE is proportionally sh*te in comparision to BBC by the equivalent factor so it evens out the population numbers

Tell me how it is shit.

HugoBradyBrown · 12-11-2011 02:12PM

imitation wrote: »

I think the TV license is fair as a certain amount of broadcast media should be supported by the state, and just like car tax only those who pay should use. I think they way it is handled should be changed though, currently we have 3 state owned channels and one private sector one.

The fact one channel is state subsidised and the other is not skews things too much. I think the state should retain the broadcast infrastructure and keep a channel or two for public interest (News/Documentrys etc). The rest should be cut loose and the market can decide.

Why should our taxes be spent on expensive cable TV shows so the private sector competition can be beaten down? The state can then tender out any jobs for movies / programmes to the cheapest bidder.

I should have thought that the final collapse of capitalism in recent years would have been enough to silence anyone minded to argue that "the market should decide" anything, and, most particularly, that the market should decide anything in as important an area as the cultural domain. What we are facing now is the development of a gentler, public-service oriented form of life, and RTE is a pre-existing template on which to model other services. The world has changed; we have reached the 'End of History' in a Hegelian sense, but not where Fukuyama though the terminus was. (And even he has a new book out, just to emphasise the point!)

Freddie59 · 12-11-2011 02:24PM

HugoBradyBrown wrote: »

I find it appealing when questions are easily answered authoritatively, and particularly when a direct comparator is available, allowing for the illustration of that knockdown argument.

Let us cast our gaze north of the border, to a place with a population not too dissimilar to ours, and where the broad culture of the people, the population distribution, the general demographic picture and so forth are identical. There their radio and television are little more than regional opt-outs and adjuncts of larger broadcasters. They have quite primitive news and current affairs broadcasting, with nothing like the resources or talent pool available to us. What they call ‘local news’ is squeezed into the schedules early in the evening and in a brief burst late at night. Their own stories do not dominate their main news bulletins, but get put into a form of Nationwide at the end. Even their weather bulletin is a brief squint at 'the Province', and nothing like the full-on visualization provided to us here by Jean Byrne and her assistants.

Consider too that they have no broadcast orchestra, and feel the denuded cultural life that is their unfortunate lot.

And yet they, too, pay their own TV tax, to learn about the weather in Suffolk and salmonella outbreaks in Brighton at the top of the hour, rather than about events in Belfast or Dungannon.

If we hold ourselves out to be a distinct state, surely we need to hear and see our own stories, to have our Public Service Broadcaster facilitating us talking to ourselves. Indeed, we have President Higgins when he was a politician to thank for ensuring that in the Irish service, we have that available to us from Galway. Since the new Presidency is going to be themed around our distinct cultural gifts, it is more Public Service Broadcasting that we will require, rather than less.

The issue is, I submit, clearly closed.

Far from it. Cast your eyes North indeed. How many are employed at BBC NI? Not the thousands that are at 'work' in RTE. The fact of the matter is that, in today's modern era, RTE is a dinosaur. Outdated shows, outdated work practices, and an overinflated wage bill - being paid for by Joe Public.

Give them the licence fee, withdraw their advertising revenue, and make them live in the real world. Who cares whether Tubridy, Kenny, et al are on the air or not. Many of us couldn't give a toss.

TWO THOUSAND EMPLOYED??!! FFS:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pay-cuts-loom-at-station-as-staff-reject-cost-plans-2932955.html

120_Minutes · 12-11-2011 02:31PM

I'll have half an ounce if what Hugo is on, and I'll use the €160 I don't pay rte to buy it...

RTE and the Licence FEE

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