Student protest to stop fee increases and protect the grant

steve_kav · 11-11-2011 01:26AM #1

Hi Im posting here to let everyone know about the student protest thats happening next week in Dublin and get everyones toughts on the matter.

I am going to post some of the facts about what we are protesting and what has happened so far.

In 1996 the Free fee's scheme was introduced along with a registration fee of £150 to pay for student services such as medical centres, councillors, clubs etc.

Over the past 15 years the registration fee has been increased 13 times in total.
In budget 2011 the registration fee was abolished and replaced with a €2000 student contribution

All grants have suffered an 8.8% cut and some students had there grant cut by an additional 60% meaning that these students recieved €6100 last year and only recieve €2445 this year.

At the student protest last year Ruairi Quinn (Labour) who is now the minister for education signed a USI pledge stating that if elected they would oppose and campaign against any new form of third level fees including student loans, graduate taxes and any further increase in the student contribution. Furthermore, they pledged to use there position in Dáil eireann to protect the higher education maintenance grant from any and all cuts. The pledge was also signed the following day by Eamonn Gilmore who is now as you know the tánaiste.

Not a single TD was willing to stand by there pre-election promises.

Students voted for these TDs because of what they promised and are very angry that the promises weren't kept.

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

The government should look at this fact and realise that if they educate us we will end up giving back more than we get and if we have an educated work force it helps to bring more businesses to ireland.

On november 16th we will be marching from Parnell square in Dublin to the government buildings.

The bottom line this year and we've been stressing it to students throughout the campaign we don't want voilence this time. Last year a small number of people causing trouble made the headlines this year we want the fact that x number of people protested to be the headline not that x number of people caused trouble.

I just want to find out what the ordinary people of Ireland think about this. Do you agree with us, do you think we should be protesting etc.

Niall09 · 11-11-2011 01:27AM

steve_kav wrote: »

In 1996 the Free fee's scheme was introduced along with a registration gee of £150

*Snigger*

Cill Dara Abu · 11-11-2011 01:28AM

steve_kav wrote: »

I just want to find out what the ordinary people of Ireland think about this. Do you agree with us, do you think we should be protesting etc.

Don't give a fiddlers and no pay you're own damn fees!! Bloody sponging students!

TheZohanS · 11-11-2011 01:30AM

steve_kav wrote: »

bla bla bla

Never seen you around here before. You must be lost.

44leto · 11-11-2011 01:30AM

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

Yeah because they earn more, I as a tax payer am not willing to pay for a persons investment in themselves.

I think you should pay your own fees for your investment in yourself, whether it is deducted from a future wage or student loans.

Sorry.

steve_kav · 11-11-2011 01:31AM

Ive been around quite a bit

bad2dabone · 11-11-2011 01:31AM

steve_kav wrote: »

The bottom line this year and we've been stressing it to students throughout the campaign we don't want voilence this time.

but next time is ok?

Pay your own damn fees, we're all broke.

TheZohanS · 11-11-2011 01:33AM

steve_kav wrote: »

Ive been around quite a bit

That's strange, the genie has never heard of you.

Stinicker · 11-11-2011 01:34AM

I suggest the students direct their protest to this address;

Fianna Fáil Headquarters
65-66 Lower Mount Street
Dublin 2

and also do a small bit of reading into what has happened to the country since 2008, the current government are not to blame for this and quite frankly trimming the wings of some of our "students" would be no harm, after christmas how many of them will drop out when the grant has run out and college is no longer the big party of booze and nights out then.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 11-11-2011 01:36AM

Bring Back Fees! Keep the Riff Raff out I say.:D

John Doe1 · 11-11-2011 01:36AM

Well coming from a working class background where the grant was the only real way for me to get into the college im now in, i will definitely be joining up.
Bloody arsehole non-students:rolleyes:

TheZohanS · 11-11-2011 01:38AM

John Doe1 wrote: »

Well coming from a working class background where the grant was the only real way for me to get into the college im now in, i will definitely be joining up.
Bloody arsehole non-students:rolleyes:

John, it's nice to see you out of hospital but are you sure that past is your own and not just something you made up? Tell the truth now?

eth0 · 11-11-2011 01:41AM

44leto wrote: »

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

Yeah because they earn more, I as a tax payer am not willing to pay for a persons investment in themselves.

I think you should pay your own fees for your investment in yourself, whether it is deducted from a future wage or student loans.

Sorry.

Why stop there, make people take out loans to go to primary and secondary school as well. Don't have money? well then you can stay thick for life. Seems fair right? you won't be paying

I never understand what is so special about 3rd level that you're expected to pay for it yourself. With so many low skill jobs being outsourced and automated they should be encouraging people to go to college

John Doe1 · 11-11-2011 01:45AM

TheZohan wrote: »

John, it's nice to see you out of hospital but are you sure that past is your own and not just something you made up? Tell the truth now?

¿De qué estás hablando?

tolosenc · 11-11-2011 01:54AM

eth0 wrote: »

Why stop there, make people take out loans to go to primary and secondary school as well. Don't have money? well then you can stay thick for life. Seems fair right? you won't be paying

I never understand what is so special about 3rd level that you're expected to pay for it yourself. With so many low skill jobs being outsourced and automated they should be encouraging people to go to college

Well attending school from 6-16 is a legal obligation, so you can't charge someone to do that...

To be honest, students will be out protesting, then it will be auld ones, then it will be god knows who. Every single one of them with exactly the same attitude. "Yes, I'm all for spending cuts, as long as they don't affect me!"

44leto · 11-11-2011 01:54AM

eth0 wrote: »

Why stop there, make people take out loans to go to primary and secondary school as well. Don't have money? well then you can stay thick for life. Seems fair right? you won't be paying

I never understand what is so special about 3rd level that you're expected to pay for it yourself. With so many low skill jobs being outsourced and automated they should be encouraging people to go to college

Pathetic first its the law a person must attend primary and secondary schooling, its a choice if you want to advance to third level. You don't have to you know.

hatrickpatrick · 11-11-2011 01:56AM

Totally approve of this and will try my best to make it.
HOWEVER:
Why has there been so little marketing for this event?

First I heard about it was yesterday, the supposed Facebook page for it redirects to the Ask Your TD campaign and makes no mention of any march next week, where is the mass postering and marketing which accompanied the last one?

These events can't succeed unless the advertising for them becomes omnipresent at least a week (in my opinion) before the event itself.

darragh16 · 11-11-2011 01:59AM

Student myself and I think that Student Fee's should be re-introduced. It would reduce the amount of absenteeism and improve punctuality in courses. It would separate the ones who want to be there from the ones who are only doing it for the sake of it, the ones who just get the free grant money and the ones who go for free and have their oul pair pay for the car and insurance so they can travel 5 mins down the road to college.

It would reduce the amount of pressure on the exchequer. The fees would then be able to pay for lectures, professors, improvements to college lifestyle and improvement to college facilities. Also I do feel that there are a few too many colleges and that they should be amalgamated but thats for another day.

eth0 · 11-11-2011 02:02AM

44leto wrote: »

Fact: Graduates on average pay 70% more tax over there working lives than non-graduates.

Yeah because they earn more, I as a tax payer am not willing to pay for a persons investment in themselves.

I think you should pay your own fees for your investment in yourself, whether it is deducted from a future wage or student loans.

Sorry.

44leto wrote: »

Pathetic first its the law a person must attend primary and secondary schooling, its a choice if you want to advance to third level. You don't have to you know.

Its your choice if you want to do the last few years of secondary school too if you're over 16 you can leave, maybe those at least should have fees.

"Its the law" means nothing. Its the law that says fees are what they are, the next law can say education is no longer mandatory and that you have to pay for it

keeping education mandatory and bringing in primary and secondary school fees would be a great way to bring in tax revenue, like property tax, and squeeze the middle class some more

Pride Fighter · 11-11-2011 02:02AM

People did not vote for Labour party policies at the last general election. Labour only got 37 seats, Fine Gael 76. The programme for government reflects that.

Neither party's manifesto is being implemented. A programme for government is being implemented. That is called politics.

If you want to protest someone, maybe protest Fianna Fail's head office for screwing this country over and calling in the EU-IMF. Remember that Labour introduced free 3rd level with Ruairi Quinn as Finance minister and Niamh Breathnach as Education minister. That is something they're both proud of. They would not be doing this unless it was necessary to get this country back into economic sovereignty.

Maybe you should ask the USI 'leaders' their political affiliations?? Most of them are Fianna Fail stooges sponging off students contributions to keep them in a job.

longhalloween · 11-11-2011 02:06AM

I suggest banks offer a student only loan. You take out an amount relevant to the course you're doing, add a SMALL bit for living expenses (because in fairness, Christmas/Summer jobs aren't as plentiful as they were) pay nothing + no interest for 3/4 years, then when you graduate it's up to ou to pay off the loan at a slightly higher fee than usual.

Therefore, when you're earning nothing, you pay nothing.

When you're earning a decent wage and you have a lot of disposable income you pay an above average interest fee for your education.

You win, education fully funded, the banks eventually get a return for your investment and if you dropped out or if didn't get a good degree or a decent job as a result of your education, you're f*cked (more incentive to learn)

jimmycrackcorm · 11-11-2011 02:09AM

steve_kav wrote: »

Hi Im posting here to let everyone know about the student protest thats happening next week in Dublin and get everyones toughts on the matter.

We need the fees to pay for more teachers of English.

44leto · 11-11-2011 02:12AM

eth0 wrote: »

Its your choice if you want to do the last few years of secondary school too if you're over 16 you can leave, maybe those at least should have fees.

"Its the law" means nothing. Its the law that says fees are what they are, the next law can say education is no longer mandatory and that you have to pay for it

keeping education mandatory and bringing in primary and secondary school fees would be a great way to bring in tax revenue, like property tax, and squeeze the middle class some more

It is a priviliage and one we enjoy, a lot of the world doesn't and as long as you know that it is a social cost and one we can just about afford. So we know there will be cuts, in education, personally if you can gather an extra revenue from third level students, I think that is politically acceptable.

raah! · 11-11-2011 02:16AM

It's a great social injustice that average joe postman has to pay for middle class mc wanker to scrape his way through a degree and spend his money on drink and cotton pants, all the while sneering at people on the dole as though he's somehow different from them. These people learn nothing and remember nothing of what they didn't learn, if they get any further employment prospects because of some scrap of paper then it's only because of the ignorance of their employers.

Of course there are some who go for an education and make the best of it, and wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, these are a great minority however.

dlofnep · 11-11-2011 02:17AM

I know alot of people who got out of a hole, away from the streets through education. The grant enabled them to do it. I know alot of friends from a poor background who would not have been able to afford college without the grant. It has bettered the lives of so many.

What's happening now is that there is going to be a gap created, where those who genuinely can't afford it will not be able to go to college. Labour have failed their voters. They need to stop blaming FF, and accept responsibility. They recently handed away along with FG 718 million euros to unguaranteed bondholders at the expense of the Irish public, and now intend to cut social welfare and increase the cost of education. They have sold out their principals.

valleyoftheunos · 11-11-2011 02:27AM

Sadly for students politicians know they can ignore students and their demands as students, are only students for 4 years after which they they leave college and stop giving a sod what happens to students or their issues.

What's more is that politicians know just how short voters memories are and that giving the students what they want now, won't result in a plethora of loyal voters come the next election.

That means that students will always be at the end of the queue when it comes to funding and at a time when there is no funding for basically anything its even worse.

Finally I'd like to take this opportunity to remind students that back in 1996 when the scheme was introduced the average cost of tuition in University here was about £4000, €5000 in todays money, not accounting for any adjustments for inflation. Your third level education is still heavily subsidised, and grants to cover the contribution are available to those who qualify on a means test. remember that things might not be as bad as you think.

amacachi · 11-11-2011 02:58AM

steve_kav wrote: »

"There" when it should've been "their" several times.

Yeah, we should really throw some more money into that neverending fcuking pit.

amacachi · 11-11-2011 03:01AM

dlofnep wrote: »

I know alot of people who got out of a hole, away from the streets through education. The grant enabled them to do it. I know alot of friends from a poor background who would not have been able to afford college without the grant. It has bettered the lives of so many.

Unfortunately the statistics show that the proportion of kids from working-class families going to college didn't increase since free fees were introduced. It saved money for working class families to send their kids to fee-paying secondary schools and grind schools, nothing else.

bleg · 11-11-2011 03:07AM

A reduction in college places is the only logical option. Case in point: the number of pharmacy graduates increased over the boom times to 150 from 50. These numbers are no longer necessary. Close one of the schools and you have an annual saving of at least 350,000. Rinse and repeat across the board in duplicated courses. It will also free up the time of lecturers and postgraduate students so they can concentrate more on their research.

Shane L · 11-11-2011 03:26AM

raah! wrote: »

It's a great social injustice that average joe postman has to pay for middle class mc wanker to scrape his way through a degree and spend his money on drink and cotton pants, all the while sneering at people on the dole as though he's somehow different from them. These people learn nothing and remember nothing of what they didn't learn, if they get any further employment prospects because of some scrap of paper then it's only because of the ignorance of their employers.

Of course there are some who go for an education and make the best of it, and wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, these are a great minority however.

I actually know a postman who had many kids who all have gone to college and would not have been able to do so without the grant and the burden of future debt. A lot of people on the dole have degrees these days ( or have emigrated). I highly doubt doctors , engineers etc remember nothing from their studies.

longhalloween · 11-11-2011 05:11AM

Shane L wrote: »

I actually know a postman who had many kids who all have gone to college and would not have been able to do so without the grant and the burden of future debt. A lot of people on the dole have degrees these days ( or have emigrated). I highly doubt doctors , engineers etc remember nothing from their studies.

Every one of these threads degenerates into the 'those who've benefited from free fees' vs 'those who haven't'.

Unfortunately the 'those who haven't' have more time to be spending on boards, propagating their uninformed opinions.

Student protest to stop fee increases and protect the grant

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