Equality in Maynooth

Moon Indigo · 08-11-2011 11:05PM #1

Hi everyone just wondering if I could get some opinions. I am currently starting an essay on equality in nuim. I would love to get some fresh perspectives and opinions. I am talking areas that you feel inequality may exist on campus or you feel have emerged. I would really value and appreciate any ideas. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to help me out.

Eric Cartman · 08-11-2011 11:21PM

I think maynooth allows a little too much freedom of the pro-life side of the argument, the pro-life society are pretty much welcomed spewing their propoganda outside the arts block. Wearing sandwich boards of miscarraiges pretending to be abortions and handing out church funded leaflets. Im all for free speech but this is just in your face

Moon Indigo · 08-11-2011 11:31PM

Thanks for replying! I never would have thought of that this is exactly the reason I came here. Thanks again

Seren_ · 09-11-2011 12:52AM

The large number of students that commute to college here and the lack of services for them could be something to look at? I do think NUIM is pretty good with regards equality myself, but I suppose it depends on our own backgrounds and experiences.

Moon Indigo · 09-11-2011 08:35AM

That's actually a really good one as I fall into that category myself. This is kind of the reason I started this because I also feel in general Maynooth is fairly good on equality. It is only when you stop and get someone else's perspective that things begin to stand out. Thanks for that

Alt_Grrr · 09-11-2011 10:43AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I think maynooth allows a little too much freedom of the pro-life side of the argument, the pro-life society are pretty much welcomed spewing their propoganda outside the arts block. Wearing sandwich boards of miscarraiges pretending to be abortions and handing out church funded leaflets. Im all for free speech but this is just in your face

I wouldn't say too much freedom, but I do think that they certainly not treated like other societies or groups or organizations on the campus.

Heck they threatened to beat up somebody from a sexual health clinic, if any other group on campus did this, the university would have intervened and students involved would have been expelled and those from outside the university would have court orders barring them from campus, but because of our friends in the south campus, this was never going to happen and potentially dangerous and violent behaviour is permitted to continue.

LeixlipRed · 09-11-2011 12:58PM

I believe in allowing anyone, no matter how disgusting their views may be, to have a platform. The views of pro-lifers don't disgust me but their actions certainly do. It's up to those who oppose their viewpoint to deconstruct their platform. I've said it before, and I'll repeat, we should have a pro-choice society on campus.

GaryDyer · 09-11-2011 01:02PM

In sport you just got to look at the pitches to see inequality... The GAA teams have a huge fence and floodlights around their pitch while Rugby and Soccer pitches have nothing but goals... There are also huge inequalities with capitation between the GAA teams and other sports clubs.

Alt_Grrr · 09-11-2011 01:04PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I believe in allowing anyone, no matter how disgusting their views may be, to have a platform. The views of pro-lifers don't disgust me but their actions certainly do. It's up to those who oppose their viewpoint to deconstruct their platform. I've said it before, and I'll repeat, we should have a pro-choice society on campus.

in case my previous comment came across badly, I have no problem with letting them leaflet or protest or hold debates or engage in discussion. I do have a problem with some of their bullying tactics and intimidating actions.

One of the few times I'd say I'm with LeixlipRed, I'm for letting everyone have their say, even those who's views are on the extreme side.

LeixlipRed · 09-11-2011 02:33PM

GaryDyer wrote: »

In sport you just got to look at the pitches to see inequality... The GAA teams have a huge fence and floodlights around their pitch while Rugby and Soccer pitches have nothing but goals... There are also huge inequalities with capitation between the GAA teams and other sports clubs.

Sure the GAA have Jesus behind them :pac:

Moon Indigo · 09-11-2011 08:03PM

I am not involved in any of the sports but really thanks again to everyone. Just a quick question to anyone who it may affect or know anything about. How is the campus in your opinion/experience regarding disability? I mean both access, assistance (if required) and is there a society in existence specifically for this? Know most (?) are accessible just wondering.

LeixlipRed · 09-11-2011 08:06PM

Logic House has no elevator. Disabled student can't access either the Music Dept office or the Maths Dept office.

Bigtoe107 · 09-11-2011 08:27PM

I'm gonna be slated for this but I think the male gender is slightly under-represented in Maynooth, well actually in all academic institutions. Feminism studies is almost compulsory on all arts subjects and in my opinion is very anti-male. I wouldn't even mind this if opposing view points or opinions were taken on board.

Other than this I think Maynooth is thankfully quite a nice place to be, regardless of age, race, sex etc.

Alt_Grrr · 09-11-2011 08:28PM

Moon Indigo wrote: »

I am not involved in any of the sports but really thanks again to everyone. Just a quick question to anyone who it may affect or know anything about. How is the campus in your opinion/experience regarding disability? I mean both access, assistance (if required) and is there a society in existence specifically for this? Know most (?) are accessible just wondering.

Ask the Access office, but since they won't tell you much, talk to Brendan Ashe, the health & safety officer, how has strong opinions on a lot of the issues around physical access and such.

Alt_Grrr · 09-11-2011 08:40PM

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

I'm gonna be slated for this but I think the male gender is slightly under-represented in Maynooth, well actually in all academic institutions.

No, your stating fact, there more women then men in third level institutions.
But in certain subject areas its different, for example in Computer Science its almost exclusively male, but in recent years its starting to balance out.

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

Feminism studies is almost compulsory on all arts subjects and in my opinion is very anti-male. I wouldn't even mind this if opposing view points or opinions were taken on board.

Again that's a different topic all together, not all feminism is anti-men and sometimes it is a genuine area of interest in some subjects. but I can see where the problem is. Universities in Ireland should try and encourage more men to come, popular culture in Ireland is a anti-intellectual at times.

Seren_ · 09-11-2011 08:57PM

Moon Indigo wrote: »

I am not involved in any of the sports but really thanks again to everyone. Just a quick question to anyone who it may affect or know anything about. How is the campus in your opinion/experience regarding disability? I mean both access, assistance (if required) and is there a society in existence specifically for this? Know most (?) are accessible just wondering.

I think that the campus and college in general is pretty good with regards disability. People have to remember that disabilities are not always obvious i.e. someone using a wheelchair, a guide dog etc - most disabilities are hidden. I am pretty certain that there is not a society for disabled students on campus; tbh I don't know if it would work out that well as a lot of students would not feel comfortable joining it. There is the Mental Health Society (of which I am a committee member), and we try and raise awareness of services for mental illness on campus, as well as promoting positive mental health.

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

I'm gonna be slated for this but I think the male gender is slightly under-represented in Maynooth, well actually in all academic institutions. Feminism studies is almost compulsory on all arts subjects and in my opinion is very anti-male. I wouldn't even mind this if opposing view points or opinions were taken on board.

Other than this I think Maynooth is thankfully quite a nice place to be, regardless of age, race, sex etc.

The white, middle class, heterosexual male has of course had it extremely difficult throughout history, lest we forget :rolleyes: However, I can see where you are coming from. Feminism is inherently not anti-male though; yes some feminist authors may be, but that's their own issue. I have studied modules on gender where we had quite a few lectures on masculinity; in fact the sociology department run an entire third year module on masculinities.

Bigtoe107 · 09-11-2011 09:30PM

I know Feminism is not inherently anti-male but it is an area of study which panders to the needs of women, which makes it very difficult for men to comment. The "as a woman" line is pandered quite a lot. White middle class males do not represent all males though and while I agree women have historically had a difficult time, they were by no means the only disadvantaged group; I think people need to be careful equality is a two way street.

That's a good point about the Masculinity coarse though, I didn't realise that and I feel better now:D.

Btw I don't want to turn this into a male vs female thread at all, just incase people think I'm trying to derail this.

Bigtoe107 · 09-11-2011 09:40PM

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

No, your stating fact, there more women then men in third level institutions.
But in certain subject areas its different..........

I think this reflects the education system to be honest. The LC is stacked in favour of women as rote learning is something they are generally better at and as most Lc subjects require a lot of rote learning results are starting to reflect this.

Although this imo is by no means the worst problem with second level education it is having a huge impact on gender equality in third level. This is by no means unique to Maynooth though so might not be relevant to this thread.

Alt_Grrr · 09-11-2011 09:41PM

Your Text Here wrote: »

The white, middle class, heterosexual male has of course had it extremely difficult throughout history, lest we forget :rolleyes:

I do feel like that as soon as someone questions feminism the "white, middle class, heterosexual male" line has to come out, aside from the fact I'm anything other then middle class, it drags the whole argument down to petty name calling pretty darn fast and only serves to weaken your argument.

just saying.

Seren_ · 09-11-2011 10:40PM

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

I do feel like that as soon as someone questions feminism the "white, middle class, heterosexual male" line has to come out, aside from the fact I'm anything other then middle class, it drags the whole argument down to petty name calling pretty darn fast and only serves to weaken your argument.

just saying.

I wasn't aiming that at anyone on this thread. I was just saying that personally I don't understand how some people can run down feminism (or indeed any other movement for equality) when they have never had to put up with any sort of inequality due to race, class, gender, sexuality etc themselves.

Eric Cartman · 09-11-2011 11:00PM

Your Text Here wrote: »

I wasn't aiming that at anyone on this thread. I was just saying that personally I don't understand how some people can run down feminism (or indeed any other movement for equality) when they have never had to put up with any sort of inequality due to race, class, gender, sexuality etc themselves.

because the solution to total equality isnt to segregate the other way or devote time to the specifics of a group

Bigtoe107 · 09-11-2011 11:01PM

Your Text Here wrote: »

I wasn't aiming that at anyone on this thread. I was just saying that personally I don't understand how some people can run down feminism (or indeed any other movement for equality) when they have never had to put up with any sort of inequality due to race, class, gender, sexuality etc themselves.

My problem with this is that feminism, at least in it's current form seems a little out dated, also alot of the trumpeters of feminism will not have had to put up with inequality in their lives at least not more so than the opponents of the movement.

Plus inequality is not only a women's issue, so its impossible to tell whether critics of feminism have been discriminated against in their day to day lives, at least not on an anonymous message board.

LeixlipRed · 09-11-2011 11:04PM

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

My problem with this is that feminism, at least in it's current form seems a little out dated also alot of the trumpeters of feminism will not have had to put up with inequality at least not more so than the opponents.

I wasn't aware we had equality of the sexes

Average pay for women is lower, childcare is hugely expensive resulting in many women remaining in the home instead of working, etc, etc,. It's a bit of a myth that we suddenly achieved equality of the sexes somewhere in the 1970s.

Bigtoe107 · 09-11-2011 11:13PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I wasn't aware we had equality of the sexes Average pay for women is lower, childcare is hugely expensive resulting in many women remaining in the home instead of working, etc, etc,. It's a bit of a myth that we suddenly achieved equality of the sexes somewhere in the 1970s.

Figures can only tell so much, average pay for women is lower because of a number of factors. On average women actually make more money per minute of working than men do. Results are also skewed by the fact that a lot of men hold higher positions then women but these men are retiring and the tide is turning big time, within the next twenty years women will earn on average much higher than men. Plus current workplace inequalities will still remain such men being forced to do most of the manual labour and thus incurring more injury's/death in the work place.

I will accept the childcare point though but this does not only affect women. Tbh I could go on and on about this but I don't want to derail the thread. If anybody wants to discuss this Pm me please

philologos · 10-11-2011 08:14PM

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

Heck they threatened to beat up somebody from a sexual health clinic, if any other group on campus did this, the university would have intervened and students involved would have been expelled and those from outside the university would have court orders barring them from campus, but because of our friends in the south campus, this was never going to happen and potentially dangerous and violent behaviour is permitted to continue.

The worst I remember from the Marie Stopes thing was that leaflets compared it to Nazism.

Where did you hear that they "threatened to beat up somebody"? Seems to be quite a heavy accusation so I assume that it is well substantiated.

Alt_Grrr · 10-11-2011 09:26PM

philologos wrote: »

The worst I remember from the Marie Stopes thing was that leaflets compared it to Nazism.

Where did you hear that they "threatened to beat up somebody"? Seems to be quite a heavy accusation so I assume that it is well substantiated.

I heard it from some on-lookers, after I read about it in a national paper
Fears of attack at college pro-life protest

philologos · 10-11-2011 09:43PM

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

I heard it from some on-lookers, after I read about it in a national paper
Fears of attack at college pro-life protest

I remember that article, but I don't remember hearing of any tangible evidence to substantiate it.

A Member of a pregnancy counselling clinic had to be escorted from Maynooth University last week amid fears of physical attack from 'pro-life' students.

Elizabeth Murray, Vice President of NUIM Students' Union, denies any violence occurred but labelled the pro-life protest as "intimidating and upsetting".

There were also reports of water bombs being thrown at the representative of the clinic but the college denies this.

Nothing in that article gets close to demonstrating that violence occurred.

Alt_Grrr · 11-11-2011 12:50AM

philologos wrote: »

The worst I remember from the Marie Stopes thing was that leaflets compared it to Nazism.

Where did you hear that they "threatened to beat up somebody"? Seems to be quite a heavy accusation so I assume that it is well substantiated.

philologos wrote: »

I remember that article, but I don't remember hearing of any tangible evidence to substantiate it.

Nothing in that article gets close to demonstrating that violence occurred.

At no point did I say violence occurred, but I've heard from numerous witnesses that violence was threatened, both in hushed tones in the arts block and to the poor women's face, its perfectly understandable that the university and students union want to deny this.

Having been accosted by these people several times, I'd well believe it.
Its hard to argue with people who feel they have the complete moral justification for any course of action they may take from entity that created the universe and everything in it.

I'm not accusing you of this at all, (I know well your views on the matter), but where this any other group on campus (and it had gotten to the papers) then their would have been an outcry amongst the student body.

Duddy · 11-11-2011 04:51AM

There used to be a Pro-Choice Society back in the day, but I haven't heard anything since about first year.

I keep remembering back to the start of the year - the c.5 year old I seen at the traffic lights between north and south campus asking his mammy what the sign he was holding said.
"pro-life! pro-life! say it! pro-life!"

Disgusting.

philologos · 11-11-2011 08:15AM

Alt_Grrr wrote: »

At no point did I say violence occurred, but I've heard from numerous witnesses that violence was threatened, both in hushed tones in the arts block and to the poor women's face, its perfectly understandable that the university and students union want to deny this.

Having been accosted by these people several times, I'd well believe it.
Its hard to argue with people who feel they have the complete moral justification for any course of action they may take from entity that created the universe and everything in it.

I'm not accusing you of this at all, (I know well your views on the matter), but where this any other group on campus (and it had gotten to the papers) then their would have been an outcry amongst the student body.

I know many people who were in the pro-life society while I was at university. While I agree with what they believe in to some degree, I disagreed with their approach. Ad-hominems and allusions to Nazism aren't away to effectively argue for a pro-life position. Given who I knew (for the most part seminarians in my philosophy class) I know that they wouldn't have done such a thing. That's why I strain to believe it.

Getting to the national papers meant nothing in this case given that it was all based on "reports".

I also don't think they or anyone else has the justification to do anything that is wrong in God's name. In fact I'd see it as being the opposite. I support their right to protest and inform, but in a constructive manner. I don't believe it is wrong for them to advocate their view that abortion-by-choice (as opposed to abortion-by-necessity in terms of medical issues) is wrong.

lemansky · 11-11-2011 09:36AM

Duddy wrote: »

I keep remembering back to the start of the year - the c.5 year old I seen at the traffic lights between north and south campus asking his mammy what the sign he was holding said.
"pro-life! pro-life! say it! pro-life!"

Disgusting.

Last week a bunch of (what looked like) non-student pro life people were in marching around JH and standing in front of the main entrance screaming at it. There were some kids there, the upper age limit being maybe 8 or so. I'm aware that this was during midterm for the schools, but some of them were holding signs and shouting with the adults. As Duddy said, disgusting.

They did something similar in the last week or two before orientation week too-was that what you saw Duddy or was that when everyone was back?

Equality in Maynooth

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