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UK High Court ruled today that the Catholic Church 'liable' over priests' actions

2

Comments

  • #32
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Some 1.38 billion has been paid out by the State so far and the Government are still awaiting the agreed contribution from the orders..

    It's not as if the money isn't going straight back into the economy - house purchases, new cars, weekends away, new tellies, etc. The State can tax. The Church can't. So the effective cost to the State is far less than 1.38 billion.


  • #33
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Great news, this will rock the church.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1108/breaking31.html

    The High Court ruled today that the Catholic Church can be held liable for the wrongdoings of its priests.
    A judge in London announced his decision in a case which has been described as being “an issue of wide general importance in respect of claims against the Catholic Church”.

    Although the point to be decided arose in a damages action over alleged sex abuse by a priest, it is understood that the decision will affect other types of claims made against the Church.
    a 47-year-old woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, who claims she was sexually assaulted as a child by the late Fr Wilfred Baldwin, a priest of the Portsmouth Diocese, at a children’s home in Hampshire run by an order of nuns.

    Giving his decision on a preliminary issue in her damages action the judge held that, in law, the Church “may be vicariously liable” for Father Baldwin’s alleged wrongdoings.

    A number of cases was/are being tried in the USA at the moment.

    The new next trick from Rome that they are trying to get around such a ruling is (a) say that each individual church is a separate entity from Rome - and as such the whole org cannot be sued (b) that the priests are not officially 'employed' by Rome (BUT they can be recognised as a legal 'agent' so their argument on that falls down there alone) and (c) depending on the successfulness/failure of (a) - they are declaring some churches as officially bankrupt so to stop further claims being sent down the line/chain of command to Rome.

    Expect the same tactics here if such a case is tried.


  • #34
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,510 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    The catholic church doesn't just exist in Ireland. :rolleyes:

    Who said otherwise?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #35
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    prinz wrote: »
    It does not mean victims are suddenly going to be entitled to €100 million direct from the Vatican.

    Especially since 99% of victims have already got their compo cheque. They can't go back for seconds once they've agreed to a settlement.


  • #36
    LenaClaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭LenaClaire


    yutta wrote: »
    It's not as if the money isn't going straight back into the economy - house purchases, new cars, weekends away, new tellies, etc. The State can tax. The Church can't. So the effective cost to the State is far less than 1.38 billion.

    Are you seriously defending that the church has not paid up for any of the money they promised to the state to benefit victims of the church's actions?

    Do you honestly think that is acceptable??


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  • #37
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    yutta wrote: »
    It would be interesting to hear how you address the meaning of life questions.

    The meaning of life to whom? Infants who die before they know they exist?

    There is only one "meaning" to life: reproduce!


  • #38
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    jujibee wrote: »
    Are you seriously defending that the church has not paid up for any of the money they promised to the state to benefit victims of the church's actions?

    Do you honestly think that is acceptable??

    Acceptable to who?

    The Church are meeting and have met all their legal obligations. I wonder could prove otherwise? Surely you can find some newspaper article (not based in hysteria) that spells out the figures involved?

    Thank God most judges are of religious inclination and of fair mind.


  • #39
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    There is only one "meaning" to life: reproduce!

    Cool story bro!


  • #40
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Biggins wrote: »
    A number of cases was/are being tried in the USA at the moment.

    The new next trick from Rome that they are trying to get around such a ruling is (a) say that each individual church is a separate entity from Rome - and as such the whole org cannot be sued (b) that the priests are not officially 'employed' by Rome (BUT they can be recognised as a legal 'agent' so their argument on that falls down there alone) and (c) depending on the successfulness/failure of (a) - they are declaring some churches as officially bankrupt so to stop further claims being sent down the line/chain of command to Rome.

    Expect the same tactics here if such a case is tried.

    Yea there is a good thread on politics,ie

    Catholic Churches in the US began declaring bankruptcy in 2004 - On July 6, 2004, the Archdiocese of Portland, Ore., became the first Catholic diocese in the history of the United States to seek the protection of the bankruptcy court. On Sept. 20, 2004, the Diocese of Tucson became the second. Both of these filings resulted from the wave of lawsuits brought against the church because of the sexual abuse of minors by members of the Catholic clergy.

    AIB loaned them $400 million to pay compensation!

    In 2007, just before several abuse cases were scheduled to begin, the Diocese of San Diego filed for bankruptcy. It sought this protection despite owning hundreds of millions of dollars worth of property - everything from commercial buildings, to open land, to parking lots. Only after it became clear that the bankruptcy judge was ready to dismiss the diocese's bankruptcy filing did the church seek to settle with victims. At the end of the bankruptcy proceedings, the judge, a Catholic, scolded the church for being "disingenuous." Dan Rather video report


  • #41
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,865 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    yutta wrote: »
    Especially since 99% of victims have already got their compo cheque. They can't go back for seconds once they've agreed to a settlement.

    99% of victims?

    What about some who may not have come forward yet? Or some who were abused recently? Or those abused in the future?

    I'm not saying these people do or will ever exist, but there is a chance, and this ruling has a great affect for any possible future cases


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  • #42
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Yea there is a good thread in politics

    Catholic Churches in the US began declaring bankruptcy in 2004 - On July 6, 2004, the Archdiocese of Portland, Ore., became the first Catholic diocese in the history of the United States to seek the protection of the bankruptcy court. On Sept. 20, 2004, the Diocese of Tucson became the second. Both of these filings resulted from the wave of lawsuits brought against the church because of the sexual abuse of minors by members of the Catholic clergy.

    AIB loaned them $400 million to pay compensation!

    In 2007, just before several abuse cases were scheduled to begin, the Diocese of San Diego filed for bankruptcy. It sought this protection despite owning hundreds of millions of dollars worth of property - everything from commercial buildings, to open land, to parking lots. Only after it became clear that the bankruptcy judge was ready to dismiss the diocese's bankruptcy filing did the church seek to settle with victims. At the end of the bankruptcy proceedings, the judge, a Catholic, scolded the church for being "disingenuous." Dan Rather video report

    Mmm. Is your motivation to compensate victims or see the Church bankrupt? I've a funny feeling it's the latter. (like most anti-Catholic bigots masquerading as champions for abuse victims - a most sickening phenomenon).


  • #43
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    yutta wrote: »
    Acceptable to who?

    The Church are meeting and have met all their legal obligations. I wonder could prove otherwise? Surely you can find some newspaper article (not based in hysteria) that spells out the figures involved?

    Thank God most judges are of religious inclination and of fair mind.


    TROLL


  • #44
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    yutta wrote: »
    Mmm. Is your motivation to compensate victims or see the Church bankrupt? I've a funny feeling it's the latter. (like most anti-Catholic bigots masquerading as champions for abuse victims - a most sickening phenomenon).

    <report instead of this carry on, mod>


  • #45
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Yea there is a good thread on politics,ie

    Catholic Churches in the US began declaring bankruptcy in 2004 - On July 6, 2004, the Archdiocese of Portland, Ore., became the first Catholic diocese in the history of the United States to seek the protection of the bankruptcy court. On Sept. 20, 2004, the Diocese of Tucson became the second. Both of these filings resulted from the wave of lawsuits brought against the church because of the sexual abuse of minors by members of the Catholic clergy.

    AIB loaned them $400 million to pay compensation!

    In 2007, just before several abuse cases were scheduled to begin, the Diocese of San Diego filed for bankruptcy. It sought this protection despite owning hundreds of millions of dollars worth of property - everything from commercial buildings, to open land, to parking lots. Only after it became clear that the bankruptcy judge was ready to dismiss the diocese's bankruptcy filing did the church seek to settle with victims. At the end of the bankruptcy proceedings, the judge, a Catholic, scolded the church for being "disingenuous." Dan Rather video report

    Yep, thats what your up against.
    An organisation that will use every trick in the book not to live up to its moral and legal responsibilities
    ...And they lecture the public on morals and doing the right thing?

    I think what they are doing instead, is called "Taking the piss!"


  • #46
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    yutta wrote: »
    It would be interesting to hear how you address the meaning of life questions.

    I'd say it's very shallow and il-thought-out. Now what is it they say about empty vessels?

    Let me guess: A bit of debonair nihilism and whatever you're having yourself is it?

    Not everybody needs to.What does the question even mean in the first place?
    Ps. The answer is 42. !:p


  • #47
    UglyBolloxFace
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭UglyBolloxFace


    yutta wrote: »
    It would be interesting to hear how you address the meaning of life questions.

    I'd say it's very shallow and il-thought-out. Now what is it they say about empty vessels?

    Let me guess: A bit of debonair nihilism and whatever you're having yourself is it?

    There is no meaning of life. We are a species who has adapted to our environments and created new technologies etc in order to advance our time on this rock floating through space.

    That's all there is to it. Anyone who says an imaginary bearded lad in the sky has anything to do with us being here...well frankly they are deluded.

    I find it amazing that if a person was rambling down the street spouting crap about aliens or some other being following them and whom has conversed with them, they would be sectioned and placed in a mental instituation, whereas those who talk of this soi-disant 'god' get away with it all.

    Deluded sheep.


  • #48
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    UglyBolloxFace wrote: »
    This may or may not be relevant but I just want to say this:

    I despise and am disgusted by religion and deluded people who fall for it.

    That is all.

    The fact is Religion still provides hope and comfort to people the world over. While I'm not religious myself I would never despise or look down my nose at any individual who continues to follow their chosen faith.

    In regard to the UK H.C decision I welcome that such a precedent has been set. It will force the Vatican to confront these issues head on instead of waiving their culpability.


  • #49
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,865 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    UglyBolloxFace wrote: »
    I find it amazing that if a person was rambling down the street spouting crap about aliens or some other being following them and whom has conversed with them, they would be sectioned and placed in a mental instituation, whereas those who talk of this soi-disant 'god' get away with it all.

    Deluded sheep.

    Same with Christmas. People making jokes about Santa Claus "Santa must have bought you that tie", the little nods and smiles to each other when a child talks about Santa etc. This of course all happening when they've returned from Mass where they listened to a story about a virgin giving birth to the Son of God, three men following a star and finding them and just giving the child gold (whatever about the frankenscense and myhrr, f*cking gold!), and having to stay in a stable because all the inns were full, probably due to some music festival being on in Bethlehem or something. This child who would grow up, cure people of any illness, magically produce food out of nowhere, bring people back from the dead, come back from the dead himself, walk on water, turn water into wine, presumably walk on wine because why the f*ck not, die for our sins even though we still have sins so he died for people sins who were alive then so what the f*ck did he ever do for us....etc etc

    And they laugh at the notion of Santa?

    Same. F*cking. Thing.


  • #50
    drdeadlift
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    MetalDog wrote: »
    Maybe if you pray hard enough your imaginary god will smite me

    Its seems to be cool to be an atheist around here.


    Im surprised this hasn't happened earlier,the coppers get thrown out of the force before being done why cant these do the same


  • #51
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    drdeadlift wrote: »
    Its seems to be cool to be an atheist around here.

    atheist_before_atheism_was_cool_womens_t_shirt-p235606995472465220qdh1_328.jpg


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  • #52
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    yutta wrote: »
    atheist_before_atheism_was_cool_womens_t_shirt-p235606995472465220qdh1_328.jpg

    The word 'cool' on that T shirt should be replaced with "socially acceptable and not likely to make you a pariah in the community".
    Were gonna need a bigger t shirt.



    Oh and BTW. Thats a sh1te arguments but trolls do as trolls must.


  • #53
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    drdeadlift wrote: »
    Its seems to be cool to be an atheist around here.HURRAH!!!!!!!!!! SURPRISED THAT OLD CHESTNUT TOOK SO LONG TO POP IN!!


    Im surprised this hasn't happened earlier,the coppers get thrown out of the force before being done why cant these do the same
    And your last sentence makes no sense. Coppers done what?


  • #54
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    drdeadlift wrote: »
    Its seems to be cool to be an atheist around here.


    Im surprised this hasn't happened earlier,the coppers get thrown out of the force before being done why cant these do the same

    That's a really crappy post.
    I mean, seriously, I don't know where to begin criticising it. I don't know how you thought that pressing 'submit' for that post was a good idea. It's the worst post that I've seen all day and I've been lurking in the CT and Paranormal forums.

    You do know that the boards.ie hard-drive that stores all our posts is getting heavy with the weight of bits, right? Zeroes weigh more than ones, surprisingly, but that's irrelevant. All bits have weight and the shelf in the server room is starting to warp.

    For that reason, you should only post when you have a good post. You should never overburden the boards.ie Western Digital 1.5 TB drive with such rubbish. If you want to reduce weight in your posts, you could replace words with smileys, for example.

    I mean, really, what were you thinking? The first part of that post is unoriginal, untrue and pathetic. In fact, it may be the single worst start to a post since that guy who doesn't like to use verbs tried to describe his trip to Eurodisney. The server on that forum burst into flames when other users tried in vain to work out what was going on and tripled the weight of the disk every 30 seconds.

    Did you smugly think to yourself "Hahaa, I know just the remark to make those atheists reconsider their position. They'll have never heard it before and I'll get loads of thanks. This'll be great. Heeheehee". You might have mis-spelt it in your head but I think that that must have been the general gist of it. I mean, a remark that dumb must have come from some faulty thinking.

    The second part makes no sense at all. I'm really not sure what you were trying to say. You may have been thinking of two things at once and combined them into a single sentence but somehow made a balls of it by the time the words reached your fingertips. I'm really not in a position to speculate so I won't.

    While the second part was crap, thankfully, it didn't reach the same depths of crapness as your first. In a way, you could say that your post improved as it went on but it wasn't enough to prevent your post being such a pile of rubbish.


  • #55
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Penn wrote: »
    three men following a star and finding them and just giving the child gold ...

    music festival being on in Bethlehem or something.

    How could anyone believe that by Following a star it would lead you to a place on the planet, was the star 100 feet off the ground.

    Bethlehem didn't exist back then anyway either.
    mcmoustache wrote: »
    That's a really crappy post.
    I mean, seriously, I don't know where to begin criticising it. I don't know how you thought that pressing 'submit' for that post was a good idea.

    Boards seems to be full of these trolls.


  • #56
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    ohk77k.jpg


  • #57
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    yutta wrote: »
    Ooh look. An anti-Catholic bigot in After Hours. Whatever next...

    To address the OP: the payouts have already been made. You can't go back for second helpings if you've already accepted a compensation pay-out.

    Pity nobody told that to the abusers


  • #58
    yutta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭yutta


    old hippy wrote: »
    Pity nobody told that to the abusers

    So do you believe abuse victims should get as many cheques as they fancy? If the Church was bankrupt, they'd find someone else to get money out of. We all have to bear our cross and move on. Money doesn't undo wrong, it's only a part of just restitution.


  • #59
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    yutta wrote: »
    ohk77k.jpg

    Atheism is simply related to belief in God. What in the bejaysas does children and love have to do with anything?
    Even your trolling is crap.


  • #60
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    yutta wrote: »
    So do you believe abuse victims should get as many cheques as they fancy? If the Church was bankrupt, they'd find someone else to get money out of. We all have to bear our cross and move on. Money doesn't undo wrong, it's only a part of just restitution.

    Disgusting sentiment.

    How do you move on from rape?


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  • #61
    Lucy8080
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Lucy8080


    ^^^^^^^^^

    apparently you get quietly moved to another parish. fingers crossed you wont do it again. not mentioning anything to the guards helps too.


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