Bus Eireann driver (should he stop where I'm standing..)

foggy_lad · 05-11-2011 10:53PM

lxflyer wrote: »

That frankly is disgraceful.

No one, and I mean no one, should have to accept verbal abuse from anyone be they customers or fellow staff members in the course of carrying out their jobs.

It is frankly unnacceptable and for you to be suggesting otherwise is disgraceful.

Anyone going for a job as a bus driver knows thay are going to come across people who for whatevewr reason are verbally or even physically abusive, it comes with the job much like treating drunks and other drug crazed teenagers and young adults is part of an A&E nurses duties and they are exposed to abuse but they know about this before they take on the job.

This abuse whether verbal or worse is never acceptible but it does happen and drivers know it comes with the job.

lucernarian · 06-11-2011 12:23PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

No need for the snaps tbc....the presence of a Pole is purely a faciilitation on the part of an operator to advertise its services and act as a marker.

There is no requirement for a pole at all,what constitutes the legality is that the location be approved by an Garda Siochana and that this approval have been notified to the relevant operator/s together with any restrictions on its use.

In the case of the OP's Newbridge Road (Inbound) location I would suggest the location has not been approved as a Stopping Place as it has an increased risk level due to the pattern of vehicle movements,the junction proximity and the road markings in the vicinity.....

I don't think it's fair to describe my responses here as being snappy. For example I made the evidence offer in good faith, I can produce such photos if anyone wishes. I don't question the idea that the location is ill-suited as a bus stop in the eyes of either Bus Eireann or the Gardaí. I'll object to sweeping remarks that this is "not a bus stop" unless they can offer some proof of that statement from people responsible for the approval and demarcation of bus stops in that area. It's fine for you to suggest that it's not a stop but as of yet we haven't seen any specific decision that's been made in this case. So in my eyes posters here are still criticising the OP and others on that aspect while there are insufficient grounds to do so. I think that's quite unfair.

AlekSmart · 06-11-2011 02:57PM

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to describe my responses here as being snappy. For example I made the evidence offer in good faith, I can produce such photos if anyone wishes. I don't question the idea that the location is ill-suited as a bus stop in the eyes of either Bus Eireann or the Gardaí. I'll object to sweeping remarks that this is "not a bus stop" unless they can offer some proof of that statement from people responsible for the approval and demarcation of bus stops in that area. It's fine for you to suggest that it's not a stop but as of yet we haven't seen any specific decision that's been made in this case. So in my eyes posters here are still criticising the OP and others on that aspect while there are insufficient grounds to do so. I think that's quite unfair.

I'd suggest that in the interest of a peaceful conclusion,a communication with the NTA re the actual Licencing Conditions attaching to the Route 126 will sort out this sudden "mystery".

The stopping points (which must be approved) will be listed on tyhe actual licence itself,which however might just be deemed commercially sensitive by the NTA :eek:

Taking to_be_confirmed's point to it's logical conclusion,is it now to be assumed that everywhere is now a Bus Stop ?

Although I'm not conncected with the route I would have to take a reasonable view of the situation as outlined by the OP and supported by the StreetView image,and that view is No Stopping point marked by either Statutory Markings or Bus Pole,General Traffic flow and associated Statutory Markings do not lend themselves to the safe operation of a Bus Stop at this point.

I am "suggesting" that a specific decision has been made in this case,and long ago at that,which explains the lack of a Bus Stop or Pole and the presence of the other two on the approach and departure from that location.

If this conclusion is taken to be "criticising" the OP,then I'm surprised,however I'M suggesting that it's somewhat unfair to suggest the existence of a Bus Stop when there is no sufficient grounds to support that at all ???

AlekSmart · 06-11-2011 03:23PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Next would be a driver who pays attention to the road and his job instead of the mobile phone or evening herald sitting in front of or beside him, Drivers should not be using their mobiles while driving! Next would be me the passenger telling the driver where I want to go and driver may reply "sorry this bus goes direct to Docklands Station with no stops at O'Connell Bridge or Busáras",(this should be said loud enough that most waiting can hear it) money or return ticket then changes hands and off I go on my way.

So Foggy my lad..every Busdriver you encounter is on a mobile phone...all the time whilst driving ?
Then you,and thus every other boarding passenger has to do the shouted "Sorry (Why apologise) this bus does not go to etc etc" rigmarole every day...in both directions..
I can assure you my _Lad that many pasengers take serious offence at a Briver raising their voice to impart any information...even down to reporting the driver for it.. (2 A4 sheets of closely typed report)

You seem to think this normal interaction takes a few minutes per passenger but you fail to accept that most passengers are happily paying their correct fare and many even have the exact or close to exact fare. this is only an issue where a driver fails to have enough change for his journey.

Not "seem to think",but have found it to be the case almost universally,which is why I prefer to prioritize the needs of my compliant pasengers as outlined by your good self.
I'm uncertain as to why you attempt to (yet again) blame a Busdriver for not having enough change....I'm uncertain if you have operational experienceof this,but on my Bus Eireann operations a Driver might require an armoured car full of change to cater for the numbers presenting with large denomination notes...every day....I am,sadly, a Busdriver and thus detailed financial analysis of my customers cash carrying is somewhat beyond my remit,however I'll bear it in mind going forward...;)

Most people are too busy to be bothered holding up their bus to work and it is usually those who are not prepared who hold things up for everyone but as I have said before the driver can put them to the end of the que giving them more time to get their sh1t together or just refuse to take them and eject them from the bus as they cant produce a ticket or the correct fare when requested! searching through pockets or handbags should be done on the footpath while the same people are talking on theoir phones etc and not at the door of the bus while the driver and everyone else waits on them.

I See...quite an attractive proposition,Foggy_Lad,but one which will certainly result in unpleasantness and even aggression as "Your" friendly,courteous,customer focused Busdriver advises his customers to "Get their **** Together" (In a Loud Voice,I take it ?)....then EJECT these folks from the Bus ??..I see...now,don't get me wrong,but I do see a certain logic to your suggestions...but I fear it might be precieved by my employer or by those terminally unprepared as a tad OTT,and thus present a threat to my continued employment.
I would however suggest that you yourself might offer your services to Bus Éireann as a Customer Facilitator,who would "Work the Queue" in advance of the Bus's arrival and in retuirn be rewarded with a Free Journey..?

Thought this was the best part of the post, agree 120% but untill the dopes are actually put off the bus they are going to turn up every morning and hold everyone up while they try 10-20 old tickets in the machine trying to find the one they have just bought or search for that last 10cent coin in the depths of their bag or the lining of their jacket:)

Again,I concur with your Foggy observations and conclusions,however I am sadly precluded from referring to my customers as "Dopes" I would therefore really appreciate it if YOU would sit near the front and do the Loud Speaking of what I,the driver,am thinking.....That Foggy,is a win-win scenario !!!!!

lucernarian · 06-11-2011 11:52PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Taking to_be_confirmed's point to it's logical conclusion,is it now to be assumed that everywhere is now a Bus Stop ?

Ah hardly now. Saying that not everywhere which has no bus stop sign is not a bus stop is not the same as saying everywhere which has no bus stop sign is now also a bus stop. The double negative does not equal a positive in this case.

The unfair criticism I see levelled at the OP's point did not for the most part come from you, AlekSmart. Telling him to "get his facts in order first" is a bit much as you have also assumed "The Driver in this case is correct" when we have not seen the conclusive proof of this. The driver could still be correct from his point of view to ensure the safety of all passengers to not stop at this location but then the other Bus Eireann staff are at fault as you pointed. In the case if there is a legit stop which the driver does not want to use, she or he can stop at the nearest safe location to the official stop.

Yes it would be unfair to suggest it's a stop when evidence suggests otherwise. My own efforts to point out an example of a non-signposted stop were in response to a number of ill-informed posters explicitly overlooking this. Rather than a way to show that this was an official Route 126 stop.
The rest of my posts were to establish that the OP is not necessarily being unreasonable based on the facts presented so far. Call me pedantic but I like a presumption of innocence to exist even if it's on a minor or technical point involving a customer vs driver situation on the Commuting and Transport forum!:eek: And I'm certainly no state judge either.

foggy_lad · 07-11-2011 03:09AM

There are stops all over the country which are infinitely more dangerous than the one the op is talking about here, two stops at a place called Firmount Cross in Kildare spring to mind as particularly "interesting" as they are part of a very busy five way intersection between Clane and Prosperous on the 120, 121, 123 and 123b routes. The stop is not listed for every bus journey but drivers never have a problem stopping there if asked or if someone is waiting and sticks a hand out, even with the danger.

The op's main point seems to have been forgotten about here and that is that all drivers stop to pick up people at this place and continue on to Docklands station except for this one driver who seems to drive a different route. But then like in the Tayto adverts "there's always one!"

DeltaEightOne · 07-11-2011 09:56PM

The one thing I have very much picked up on here is the same old story with Bus Eireann in general... moving goalposts and the old chestnut, GREY AREAS!!!

There are 100's of questionable stops in the Leinster region that many Bus Eireann drivers are faced with every day. One of the worst of these is the 101 service from Dublin to Drogheda which must have unposted (possibly unofficial?) stops at almost every farm gate & telegraph pole once you get past the airport. I abseloutely hate travelling on the 101 and I certainly wouldnt be able to hack it as a driver on it. The 120 and the 123 are also routes with very questionable stops but these buses have been stopping at these points for years and they are most likely de-facto recognised stops

The 126 however isnt half as bad as the 101, the bus stops are more set out in black & white (i.e: stops in the ground) but I would not like to make a definite call regarding the disupted stop the OP refers to, and there has been enough raucus already on that one, so I'll keep my opinions to myself!! But the problem that keeps raising its head is the lack of consistency and the ever moving goalposts. If 9 out of 10 bus drivers will stop there, and 1 wont, there has to be a reason behind that. Perhaps the 'offending' driver has been discplined over stopping at other unposted stops, and is once bitten, twice shy? Maybe he is on a final warning for similar (unauthorised stop) issues?

In my own honest opinion, if I were driving the 126 bus, I would NOT stop at this location UNTIL such a time that I was informed by my boss/inspector to do so, that means that in the event of an accident/other complaint being made, I can pass the buck to someone else, and my arse is covered (Did I just see a pig fly past me?) But the problem is that no one is able (or willing?) to give a clear cut straight answer, and the responsibility falls firmly within the arms of the driver. Everythings great when its things are OK but when things go wrong, the trusty driver gets the blame, wether their right or wrong!

Regarding the Docklands issue, the driver should have a running board that specifies the last stop, if it says Docklands on the board, then Docklands is the last stop. That is a fairly clear cut case. There is also the question of wether the driver has been route trained on that leg of the route (sounds riduclous but same policy regarding blame game applies to this as it applies to unposted stops) - however, when timetables and running boards are called into arguments, that is a double edged sword that can go both ways. For example the timetable doesnt mention ANY drop off stops at O Connell Bridge etc, this particular chestnut could be "enforced" by the driver whenever pax want to alight at O Connell Bridge and every other bus stop on the way up the quays who would greatly inconvenience alot of people by travelling straight to Docklands, and if anyone has an issue with that, then take it up with Bus Eireann. Because the company is the one constantly moving the goalposts!

It will be very interesting to see what way this one turns out, I for one will be watching this one with great interest!

AlekSmart · 07-11-2011 10:11PM

DeltaEightOne wrote: »

The one thing I have very much picked up on here is the same old story with Bus Eireann in general... moving goalposts and the old chestnut, GREY AREAS!!!

In my own honest opinion, if I were driving the 126 bus, I would NOT stop at this location UNTIL such a time that I was informed by my boss/inspector to do so, that means that in the event of an accident/other complaint being made, I can pass the buck to someone else, and my arse is covered (Did I just see a pig fly past me?) But the problem is that no one is able (or willing?) to give a clear cut straight answer, and the responsibility falls firmly within the arms of the driver. Everythings great when its things are OK but when things go wrong, the trusty driver gets the blame, wether their right or wrong!

Best answer in this post so far

BuzzFish · 09-11-2011 10:17AM

All,

I have been talking with a customer service agent n Busaras as this is the controlling depot for the route.

I have been informed by them that they have spoken with the inspector (he does not take calls directly) and that this driver has been told to pick up at this point in future and that he should be running the full route to the docklands as timetabled.

I hope this is the end of it.

lucernarian · 09-11-2011 12:32PM

BuzzFish wrote: »

All,

I have been talking with a customer service agent n Busaras as this is the controlling depot for the route.

I have been informed by them that they have spoken with the inspector (he does not take calls directly) and that this driver has been told to pick up at this point in future and that he should be running the full route to the docklands as timetabled.

I hope this is the end of it.

I'm glad to see my repeated requests to get in touch with the inspector paid dividends! Though it's not quite the answer I expected. It's definitely not the answer some of the posters here expected!:eek:

dowlingm · 09-11-2011 04:36PM

BuzzFish wrote: »

I have been talking with a customer service agent n Busaras as this is the controlling depot for the route.

Buzzfish - did you have a chance to contact the local Garda station as suggested upthread?

Does anyone know how private companies insurance covers stops? Would an Aircoach, Gobus, Kavanaghs bus involved in an injury or other accident be covered by their insurer if they conducted stop operations at a place not Garda-approved, I wonder?

BuzzFish · 09-11-2011 05:20PM

I'm happy that this seems to be sorted (time will tell) but for those who think that the stop was in an unsafe place, what do you make of this JJ Kavanagh Stop? (btw I walk past this on my way to the next "safe" Bus Eireann stop each morning).

JJK Sign on Newbridge Road

dowlingm · 09-11-2011 05:24PM

BuzzFish wrote: »

I'm happy that this seems to be sorted (time will tell) but for those who think that the stop was in an unsafe place, what do you make of this JJ Kavanagh Stop? (btw I walk past this on my way to the next "safe" Bus Eireann stop each morning).

JJK Sign on Newbridge Road

that's alarming, but I hope you're not then implying by showing this that if JJK can be cowboys so can BE?

BuzzFish · 09-11-2011 05:33PM

dowlingm wrote: »

that's alarming, but I hope you're not then implying by showing this that if JJK can be cowboys so can BE?

Of course not, I just don't believe that the stop I disputed (even if pushed back 50 meters) is a patch on this.

AlekSmart · 09-11-2011 07:47PM

BuzzFish wrote: »

All,

I have been talking with a customer service agent n Busaras as this is the controlling depot for the route.

I have been informed by them that they have spoken with the inspector (he does not take calls directly) and that this driver has been told to pick up at this point in future and that he should be running the full route to the docklands as timetabled.

I hope this is the end of it.

I would very much doubt it.

Although I'm not a Bus Eireann employee,I would doubt very much that this will be solved by the Inspectors dictat.

The Inspector will,if push comes to shove,most certainly not take responsibility for instructing a Driver to stop in a non-approved location.

The original question thus remains unanswered..Is the location an approved stopping point or not..?

I'm assuming that BuzzFish was dealing via the phone with Busaras (Which incidentally is NOT the "controlling" depot,which is in fact,Broadstone).

I would expect that the District Inspector will attempt to force the issue and that the Driver concerned may well decide to take it further or to seek official clarification as to the status of this location.

I would not invest the Busaras line with much credibility TBH.

I reckon it's still only ther NTA and/or the Local Garda Traffic Corps Sergeant who will come up trumps here.

However the Docklands element is a no-contest.....The Driver either operates the Full Route or is placed on a disciplinary charge.

The second BuzzFish post re the JJK Stop really IS in the realms of Fr Teddism......

I'm happy that this seems to be sorted (time will tell) but for those who think that the stop was in an unsafe place, what do you make of this JJ Kavanagh Stop? (btw I walk past this on my way to the next "safe" Bus Eireann stop each morning).

JJK Sign on Newbridge Road

Absolutely No Question about it...I'd suggest that the Pole Men simply plonked it down without any reference to reality....If JJ Himself see's this I fully expect it to be yanked out of the ground tout-suite and perhaps even a Garda Traffic Sergeant vacancy to suddenly occur in the district...:eek:

AlekSmart · 24-11-2011 06:55PM

Any updates from Buzzfish on the status of the OP ??

Bus Eireann driver (should he stop where I'm standing..)

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