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Irish embassy to the Vatican to be closed.

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135

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    #62
    D1stant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭D1stant


    Killer Pigeon wrote: »
    Why Iran? Aren't there any Irish citizens living in Iran?

    Just the 4 lads in the embassy. St Paddys day is a right riot


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    #63
    Alan b.
    Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭Alan b.


    Corsendonk wrote: »
    Australia and Canada were in discussion about sharing embassies around the world to cut costs which makes sense. Perhaps Ireland could do the same.


    the uk perhaps, imagine how many bowls of cornflakes youd have to piss in to irritate the same amount of people as doing that,

    makes sense though.

    no reason that one building full of offices couldnt be used in each country to house every embassey.


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    #64
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    the groutch wrote: »
    Can they please close all the churches while they're at it?
    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Yay to religious freedom :rolleyes:

    People can practice religion all they want as far as I'm concerned. That is of course as long as it:

    a. has no bearing on State decisions, policy or practice
    b. doesn't take money off people on a Sunday and then break the law by covering up SYSTEMIC abuse and protecting offenders

    If the Catholic Church was some other body that hasn't had a profound historic influence on Irish society, then the people who covered up such horrific crimes would be imprisoned and the CAB would be sent in to the seize assets from an organisation guilty of widespread brutality.

    Why the Catholic Church still gets special treatment is beyond me.

    It's sickening.


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    #65
    lmaopml
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    kraggy wrote: »
    People can practice religion all they want as far as I'm concerned. That is of course as long as it:

    a. has no bearing on State decisions, policy or practice
    b. doesn't take money off people on a Sunday and then break the law by covering up SYSTEMIC abuse and protecting offenders

    If the Catholic Church was some other body that hasn't had a profound historic influence on Irish society, then the people who covered up such horrific crimes would be imprisoned and the CAB would be sent in to the seize assets from an organisation guilty of widespread brutality.

    Why the Catholic Church still gets special treatment is beyond me.

    It's sickening.

    It is, and always was up to the State to legislate for criminal behaviour and to prosecute- and to initiate, discuss and ultimately introduce new legislation to protect for today, and also weigh up same with a nod to precedent...

    'IF' the State were interested in actually prosecuting then they would have done so, and if this is what the people want to see happening then they should voice it - but very many may fall as a result -

    A person is innocent until proven guilty. One person accuses another and an investigation takes place that ultimately ends up in a court of law, within the remit of the 'law'.

    The 'State' owns this challenge - Not tribunals, or inquests etc. who do little more than generalise an opinion, but have no actual material power - other than to say the result of their 'investigation'.

    Kind of like the proposed amendments to the Irish Constitution that gives the Oireachtas investigative powers....'limp' and populist.

    .... the State legislate to protect people from criminals, or are, at least supposed to, no matter whether they are Russian, Chinese, from the Vatican, or homegrown...It's not a conspiracy, it's a lack of will - why it's all so difficult, I don't know.

    Smoke and mirrors...


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    #66
    kieranfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭kieranfitz


    Now if only the vatican would only close down all their little (huge) embassies here we'd be set.


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    #67
    Badgermonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭Badgermonkey


    languagenerd wrote: »
    There were (possibly still are) a lot of Irish aid workers there at one point, there are Irish journalists/correspondents and probably a few tourists/backpackers too. Think about it, imagine an Irish person losing their passport in Iran... Or if there was any sort of disaster there (natural, political or otherwise), shouldn't we have an embassy to help Irish citizens and, where necessary, get them out of there?

    Diplomacy has and always will be fundamentally informed by an economic imperative. It's not really about helping folks out with passports or marriage certs, though they do undertake those functions. Under EU Treaties: Articles 20(2)(c) and 23 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU), we have the right to fall back on full consular protection from any other EU Member State, if our own country has no presence in that territory.

    http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/11/185&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en


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    #68
    Badgermonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭Badgermonkey


    lmaopml wrote: »
    The Swedes closed their embassy, but offered Ireland a bilateral loan with terms. This is only part of intra EU anachronism in difficult times....

    You'll have to elaborate on that I'm afraid.


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    #69
    HovaBaby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 301 ✭✭HovaBaby


    Atheism was succesfull in closing down Christianity in the Soviet Union for a while during Stalin's reign of terror, but Christianity won over in the end.


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    #70
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    HovaBaby wrote: »
    Atheism was succesfull in closing down Christianity in the Soviet Union for a while during Stalin's reign of terror, but Christianity won over in the end.

    And this is relevant because.......


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    #71
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    HovaBaby wrote: »
    Atheism was succesfull in closing down Christianity in the Soviet Union for a while during Stalin's reign of terror, but Christianity won over in the end.

    Since we're on random acts about Russia, Joe Dolan was the first Western-based performer to perform in communist Russia. He played in Moscow and St Petersburg in 1978. His bootleg albums sold like hotcakes on the streets.

    He played in front of thousands over several nights.


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    #72
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    kraggy wrote: »
    HovaBaby wrote: »
    Atheism was succesfull in closing down Christianity in the Soviet Union for a while during Stalin's reign of terror, but Christianity won over in the end.

    Since we're on random acts about Russia, Joe Dolan was the first Western-based performer to perform in communist Russia. He played in Moscow and St Petersburg in 1978. His bootleg albums sold like hotcakes on the streets.

    He played in front of thousands over several nights.

    So Atheism made Joe Dolan popular eh?

    Bloody heathens!


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    #73
    chucken1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭chucken1


    mikemac wrote: »
    How about you worry over your own country?

    What? Why are you so angry with him?


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    #74
    Irish Musician
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Irish Musician


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    This decision very accurately reflects the significantly changed circumstances of the historic ties between the Irish State and the Holy See.

    The failure of the Holy See to adequately recognise it's manifest failings in the areas of sexual, physical and child abuse for generations has destroyed the faith of many people. Removing diplomatic relations at this level is doing nothing more than recognising the reality of the shameful way that Ireland was treated by the Vatican when information was requested from them, and recognising that the Holy See has by it's actions and failures to act done significant damage to the relationship with Ireland.

    Well said.It's time they realised that saying sorry is just not good enough.


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    #75
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    The Vatican isn't a bloody country anyway!

    I don't care what the official word is and what papers were signed to make sure that The Pope could have as many coke parties in his gaff without worrying about falling under the laws of Italy.

    It's still not a country.


    The Vatican state was created by one Benito Mussolini in the 1920s. I'm not sure what the then Protector of Paedophiles Everywhere gave him in return. :rolleyes:

    Closing that embassy is a good idea. We don't have embassies in Andorra, San Marino, Monaco or Liechtenstein, either, and all of them are bigger than the Vatican.:cool:

    The Vatican has abused its diplomatic status to show contempt for our laws and courts, as when the Papal Nonce refused to cooperate with the Murphy Commission. There is no reason why it shouldn't have a representative in Ireland to liaise with its witch doctors here, but one who is fully accountable to our authorities under our laws.:D


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    #76
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    I hope they leave a poo on the rug too!


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    #77
    AeoNGriM
    Registered Users Posts: 712 ✭✭✭AeoNGriM


    MrStuffins wrote: »
    I couldn't give a blue ball!

    It's in the middle of Rome, it's 110 acres of land. It's not a real country! i don't care what forms have been signed to say that it is!

    It's a city state, like ancient Greece with it's multitude of independents ie Athens, Sparta etc

    *stretches*

    Ok, daily wind up is complete, I can now return to my planet.........

    *Star Trek transporter noises*

    ..............................


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    #78
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    This is a step in the right direction. I think we all know (unless you're some sort of apologist like David Quinn) what the "special postion" of the RCC in Ireland led to over the years.

    I hope the days of cosy, too close relations between the govt here and the Vatican will be thing of the past.


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    #79
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Eamon Gilmore, an atheist closing it down, the man who told the Americans we would have another vote on the Lisbon treaty while telling the irish people we wouldn't, then today he claims it has nothing to do with the government's anti-catholic views.
    The government said they wanted to work with the Vatican when it came to child protection, then they move the ambassador to Dublin and assigned to a top civil servant.
    Gilmore claimed we needed an embassy in the other member states of the EU and we couldn't close any of them, yet Sweden can save money by having no embassy here.
    I don't mind there being one embassy in Rome, but I do not believe the liar named Eamon Gilmore when he gives the reasons for the not closing other more expensive embassies in Europe.


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    #80
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Min wrote: »
    Eamon Gilmore, an atheist closing it down, the man who told the Americans we would have another vote on the Lisbon treaty while telling the irish people we wouldn't, then today he claims it has nothing to do with the government's anti-catholic views.
    The government said they wanted to work with the Vatican when it came to child protection, then they move the ambassador to Dublin and assigned to a top civil servant.
    Gilmore claimed we needed an embassy in the other member states of the EU and we couldn't close any of them, yet Sweden can save money by having no embassy here.
    I don't mind there being one embassy in Rome, but I do not believe the liar named Eamon Gilmore when he gives the reasons for the not closing other more expensive embassies in Europe.

    Damn athiests. Closing down pointless expenditure in a time of recession. What will they do next, Stab a panda!


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    #81
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users Posts: 4,466 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    sensibleken wrote: »
    I hope they leave a poo on the rug too!

    If you do a poo in the cistern of the toilet, it becomes a nightmarish exercise in human misery on the next flush. It's known as an upper decker.


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    #82
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    sensibleken wrote: »
    Damn athiests. Closing down pointless expenditure in a time of recession. What will they do next, Stab a panda!

    Probably pay back the €1.5 billion of unguaranteed bonds that a bank that no longer banks and is being closed down, we shouldn't have to pay back since people gambled and lost, and we the people of Ireland have to pay gamblers.
    Earlier this week the government paid €700 million on unguaranteed Anglo Irish bank bonds, these bonds had being sold on at 60% of their original value, the Irish government paid back the original 100% giving the buyers a 40% profit of €280 million all paid for by the people of Ireland.
    Then you talk about pointless expenditure.


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    #83
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Min wrote: »
    Probably pay back the €1.5 billion of unguaranteed bonds that a bank that no longer banks and is being closed down, we shouldn't have to pay back since people gambled and lost, and we the people of Ireland have to pay gamblers.
    Earlier this week the government paid €700 million on unguaranteed Anglo Irish bank bonds, these bonds had being sold on at 60% of their original value, the Irish government paid back the original 100% giving the buyers a 40% profit of €280 million all paid for by the people of Ireland.
    Then you talk about pointless expenditure.

    So this is an arguement for keeping open an embasy in a country less than 600 citizens. Logic, thy name is Min!


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    #84
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Snakeblood wrote: »
    If you do a poo in the cistern of the toilet, it becomes a nightmarish exercise in human misery on the next flush. It's known as an upper decker.

    whereas if you do it in the cistern chapel its a hate crime


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    #85
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    sensibleken wrote: »
    I hope they leave a poo on the rug too!

    For who? The Irish ambassador to the Holy See as a present to the Irish ambassador to Italy who will be moving into the building.


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    #86
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    sensibleken wrote: »
    So this is an arguement for keeping open an embasy in a country less than 600 citizens. Logic, thy name is Min!

    The Holy See or the Vatican is one of the most influential states around. The UK is not closing it's embassy to the Holy See and have stated the need for it when working to improve the lives of the poor as the Catholic church plays a large role in the health and education in countries where the state do not provide these basic requirements for taking people out of poverty.
    It is a country with a small population but the Vatican is the head of a church that has over 1,200,000,000 people as members and it has great influence. This is why when a Pope dies you have Kings and Queens, Presidents and prime ministers at the funeral.
    When the last Pope died thay had to be careful with seating arrangement so not to have the president of Iran seated close to the president of the USA.
    There are not many world leaders who would get so many heads of state attending their funeral, this shows the influence of this tiny state.


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    #87
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Min wrote: »
    The Holy See or the Vatican is one of the most influential states around. The UK is not closing it's embassy to the Holy See and have stated the need for it when working to improve the lives of the poor as the Catholic church plays a large role in the health and education in countries where the state do not provide these basic requirements for taking people out of poverty.
    It is a country with a small population but the Vatican is the head of a church that has over 1,200,000,000 people as members and it has great influence. This is why when a Pope dies you have Kings and Queens, Presidents and prime ministers at the funeral.
    When the last Pope died thay had to be careful with seating arrangement so not to have the president of Iran seated close to the president of the USA.
    There are not many world leaders who would get so many heads of state attending their funeral, this shows the influence of this tiny state.

    So? what use is having an embassy there. whatever about the cost of it, closing it on principle after how theyve behaved on this island is reason enough


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    #88
    Badgermonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭Badgermonkey


    Min wrote: »
    Catholic church plays a large role in the health and education in countries where the state do not provide these basic requirements for taking people out of poverty.

    By far the most effective instrument for breaking the hold of poverty on those in third-world nations is to provide women with the means to take control of their own reproductive cycle.


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    #89
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    NinjaK wrote: »
    including protestant, jewish and muslim churches?

    :confused::confused::confused:


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    #90
    smokingman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭smokingman


    How much money does the catholic church still owe the state in reparation for the abuse scandal?

    If we're on a spend review, shouldn't we be chasing those scum for that money too?


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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    According to Gilmore its closed because there is no direct trade agreement between the countries which makes sense I suppose.


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