Are Irish people too soft or just gullible?

K-9 · 04-11-2011 12:40AM

profitius wrote: »

David McWilliams is the one Irish economist who understands whats going on. There might be others but hes the most high profile.

The "maverick" economist that called on Lenihan to guarantee the bondholders and banks?

That guy?

uch · 04-11-2011 12:45AM

But I like Beer!, think of the Children

MungBean · 04-11-2011 01:13AM

K-9 wrote: »

The "maverick" economist that called on Lenihan to guarantee the bondholders and banks?

That guy?

In fairness he never called for what actually happened. Lenihan took his advice and turned it into a disaster of a plan that somewhat resembled what McWilliams had said.

McWilliams was in favour of a guarantee of future bonds and deposits (if I remember correctly) while the extent of the problem was investigated and a proper plan could be drawn up to address it. What Lenihan did was guarantee everything without knowing the extent or formulating a proper plan.

Thrill · 04-11-2011 01:21AM

profitius wrote: »

-The USA was at war with international bankers for hundreds of years.

Hundreds of years. You don't say.

K-9 · 04-11-2011 01:30AM

MungBean wrote: »

In fairness he never called for what actually happened. Lenihan took his advice and turned it into a disaster of a plan that somewhat resembled what McWilliams had said.

McWilliams was in favour of a guarantee of future bonds and deposits (if I remember correctly) while the extent of the problem was investigated and a proper plan could be drawn up to address it. What Lenihan did was guarantee everything without knowing the extent or formulating a proper plan.

Indeed. That's a different context though.

This context is the poster mentioning him as some "argument to authority" as to knowing what's going on in the system, the same David McWilliams that wanted the said system guaranteed, and said we'd be rolling in it within a year or 2.

profitius · 04-11-2011 01:37AM

Thrill wrote: »

Hundreds of years. You don't say.

Good reading skills!

Dudess · 04-11-2011 01:49AM

Sacred_git wrote: »

no, we are spineless greedy idiots, sure what can we do boy....lets go to the pub!!

What's this "we" tripe about?

Lol at these threads - bitching and moaning about Irish people sitting there doing nothing... by Irish people sitting at their keyboards. And all those like flies to sh1t to thank the super ironic sentiments: well? What are you going to do so, since "we" Irish are so useless? Oh yeah that's right, nothing - just more putting down the Irish, i.e. yourselves. I guess you're proving your point all right... Unless you're arrogant enough to view yourselves as somehow exempt from criticism despite also being Irish?

bradlente · 04-11-2011 06:09AM

Dudess wrote: »

What's this "we" tripe about?

Lol at these threads - bitching and moaning about Irish people sitting there doing nothing... by Irish people sitting at their keyboards. And all those like flies to sh1t to thank the super ironic sentiments: well? What are you going to do so, since "we" Irish are so useless? Oh yeah that's right, nothing - just more putting down the Irish, i.e. yourselves. I guess you're proving your point all right... Unless you're arrogant enough to view yourselves as somehow exempt from criticism despite also being Irish?

glutton for punishment:rolleyes:

Blisterman · 04-11-2011 10:30AM

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Many people are'nt "getting on with things". Many people are choosing to take their own life. Suicide is an epidemic in this country and i'll bet the British press are'nt talking about that.

You really believe protesting does'nt achieve much?

I never said protesting doesn't achieve much. It certainly can do. So long as there's a clear message and achievable aim.

The point I was making was that, in the current financial crisis,
most of these protests seem hugely unfocused, and frankly delusional.

There are steps that could be taken to prevent another crisis of this sort, such as tighter financial regulation and requiring a balanced budget and I'd be first out to protest to ensure they're in place.

But no amount of protest is going to make money and prosperity suddenly appear out of nowhere.

profitius · 04-11-2011 03:26PM

Blisterman wrote: »

I never said protesting doesn't achieve much. It certainly can do. So long as there's a clear message and achievable aim.

The point I was making was that, in the current financial crisis,
most of these protests seem hugely unfocused, and frankly delusional.

There are steps that could be taken to prevent another crisis of this sort, such as tighter financial regulation and requiring a balanced budget and I'd be first out to protest to ensure they're in place.

But no amount of protest is going to make money and prosperity suddenly appear out of nowhere.

Protests do work. The more people protest the more they get the message out there.

Leftist · 04-11-2011 03:41PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

We turned 4, and now we are exactly where we started again!!!!

But OT

The Dame street occupiers are heckled by many for what they are doing.

If people took to the streets there would be some violence and the whole country would condemn it. Same as any rally that happens really

This.

Some guy parks a protest cement truck at the gates of the Dail. He stopped the truck at the gates, and got out.

It is reported in the news media that the man drove the truck at the gates, and at least one garda dove out of the way last minute and could have been seriously injured.

It was a lie, but the government and rte know the paddies will be outraged at some lunatic runaway truck driver. And the case in point is undermined.

We are a nation of unorganised morons that are easily led.

Dudess · 04-11-2011 03:52PM

Can only imagine the amount of people who jeer the Occupy protesters also moaning about Fianna Fail and the Irish people for just putting up and shutting up.

Leftist · 04-11-2011 03:56PM

Dudess wrote: »

Can only imagine the amount of people who jeer the Occupy protesters also moaning about Fianna Fail and the Irish people for just putting up and shutting up.

Can you really? why?

On another thread you say teh same people sympathetic to a non-national who was tortured, are probably the same people who complain about foreigners on other threads.

Probably.

Ironic.

Dudess · 04-11-2011 04:04PM

People calling for the guy to have his fingers chopped off in retaliation... you can be sure many of these folks don't like foreigners getting medical treatment.

And yeah, there are people here who do nothing but mock initiatives like Occupy, yet would at the same time bitch about the state things are in this country. You'll become familiar with these inconsistencies if you stick around After Hours...

Leftist · 04-11-2011 04:17PM

Dudess wrote: »

People calling for the guy to have his fingers chopped off in retaliation... you can be sure many of these folks don't like foreigners getting medical treatment.

And yeah, there are people here who do nothing but mock initiatives like Occupy, yet would at the same time bitch about the state things are in this country. You'll become familiar with these inconsistencies if you stick around After Hours...

Is that a pass?

Chucky the tree · 04-11-2011 04:37PM

profitius wrote: »

Protests do work. The more people protest the more they get the message out there.

If the message is simply stupid and unworkable though it won't work.

trixyben · 04-11-2011 04:47PM

Would a new party that would be completely for the people of Ireland and not the banks be a better way forward for us all?

Just something thats been in my head for a while, is it not just a complete waste of time electing new parties? what do they ever do for the people of this country really? all these promises to get into power and then fade into the back ground again, i personally think its all a pure act letting people think they have control over who is in power when they are really all singing of the 1 sheet.

so would a new party be the answer? i would be in favour of one

Chucky the tree · 04-11-2011 04:58PM

trixyben wrote: »

Would a new party that would be completely for the people of Ireland and not the banks be a better way forward for us all?

Just something thats been in my head for a while, is it not just a complete waste of time electing new parties? what do they ever do for the people of this country really? all these promises to get into power and then fade into the back ground again, i personally think its all a pure act letting people think they have control over who is in power when they are really all singing of the 1 sheet.

so would a new party be the answer? i would be in favour of one

Well they need a lot more of a plan then "being for the Irish people" for people to vote for them.

trixyben · 04-11-2011 05:06PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well they need a lot more of a plan then "being for the Irish people" for people to vote for them.

Ah right sorry just havent finished off my "5 point plan" just yet, will upload when its completed!

its an only an idea i put out there, is there anyone else thinking along the same lines?

Scruffles · 04-11-2011 06:03PM

its not the general public that gets to make those decisions, its the utter muppets in charge of government,people dont have much of a choice to start with when they vote either so they feel they shoud vote for one rather than waste.

all the family [living in ireland,or irish natives living over here] are very vocal about how crap the irish government is,but hey- snap,we got one of those to,politicians are legal thieves-it was better off when that monster raving loony party was around and they had a cat as their MP,cats have a lot more sense and logic in one whisker than the current leading english and irish governments put together.

Dudess · 04-11-2011 06:06PM

And the "we voted them in" sh1t. As if everyone voted for one party.

texidub · 04-11-2011 06:22PM

There can't be 'a party for the people' since 'the people' have different ideas about society... unless you're thinking along North Korean or Chinese lines. We have parties. They are made up people. They have different ideas about how society should be run.

I think the reason nothing changes is that Irish society is fractured, divided on itself, clannish, kinda selfish and materialistic, conservative, and has little or no sense of common purpose.

Also, I think the size of the place doesn't help since everything you do is some form of sh*tting on your own doorstop, so that makes people keep the head down/appear cowardly.

MungBean · 04-11-2011 06:24PM

Dudess wrote: »

And the "we voted them in" sh1t. As if everyone voted for one party.

If everyone who thinks "We" voted them in and "We" are to blame fcuked off maybe "We" might be better off.

Da_Doc · 04-11-2011 09:06PM

MungBean wrote: »

If everyone who thinks "We" voted them in and "We" are to blame fcuked off maybe "We" might be better off.

Fine I voted them in and I think they are doing ok (not good or great) with the situation they were landed in. They shouldnt have promised as much at election time but in some respects they may not have realised the extent to which their hands were tied by agreements with the EU and IMF.

Both or banking sector and our public expenditure are largely being supported by the trioka, therefore without bowing to their whims, the government has to bring expenditure in line with income in the timeframe laid out. Imo this timeframe makes sense as it is better to bring national debt under control before it goes too high above 100% of GDP.

Two areas they should address are paying unsecured senior anglo and INBS bond holders, and addressing the mortgage crisis. The bond issue is one area where we should stand up to the ECB, anglo is no longer operating as a bank and therefore the argument that contagion would spread to our other working banks is not valid.

The mortgage issue is one of the most serious problems facing the country and it has to be addressed quickly as it is causing untold hardship on many families, particularly young families where one or both partners is unemployed. The government has been lacking in this respect. Unfortunately I dont have any ideas to offer.

These are opinions but I am happy to discuss them.

Blisterman · 05-11-2011 04:56PM

profitius wrote: »

Protests do work. The more people protest the more they get the message out there.

But the problem is the message is often confused, and not at all clear. I visited the Occupy the LSE camp last week, and the number of different and conflicting messages amazed me.

Destroy Capitalism
Save the environment
Don't bail out the bankers
Stop war
Stop the cuts
Abolish government
Get rid of taxes.

I believe the original message of these occupy protests was to keep big corporations out of politics. What's actually happened is, that the more people attracted to these protests, the more muddied and diluted this message has become.

Solnskaya · 05-11-2011 05:08PM

I wonder do most people realise that we are only at the start of the process of cutbacks and austerity?? To pay from the public purse the losses of a private sector??? This is not "as bad as it gets", this is the start of a very sh1tty time for joe soap. Come back in Nov 2012 and I reckon the whole conversation will be very different. The sh1t is only in the process of hitting the fan, it has not started to spatter back yet.:)

jamiecoins · 05-11-2011 05:15PM

if you say gulible slowly
it sounds like pineapple :eek:

Solnskaya · 05-11-2011 05:18PM

jamiecoins wrote: »

if you say gulible slowly
it sounds like pineapple :eek:

And if you say "pineapple" slowly, it sounds like "ar5e":)

Einhard · 05-11-2011 05:21PM

MungBean wrote: »

Nobody cares what the banks got, they only care what they have and how to protect it like pointing the finger at public expenditure in the hope its people on welfare or in the public sector who suffer and not themselves.

LOL yeah. Generalise much? I was on social welfare and thought it should be cut, and now I'm training to be a teacher, and agree that teachers' salaries were too high and should have been reduced. i would have thought that I was just stating the obvious, but patently not!

tweedledee · 05-11-2011 05:25PM

""Also we have just been ranked the 7th most developed country in the world by the UN.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...306978325.html

That's not to say Ireland doesn't have lots of problems but it's not all doom and gloom.""

Who wrote this????How gullible are you?? these "statistics" are controlled and "released" when needed. The UN stats are as reliable as the ones from the CSO. All manipulated by those trying to create an image or pacify a weak nation. And Ireland is a very weak nation.:mad:

Are Irish people too soft or just gullible?

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