Irish embassy to the Vatican to be closed.

Irish Steve · 03-11-2011 11:48PM

Responding to the decision, the Primate of Ireland said he wished to express his "profound disappointment" at the closure.
"This decision seems to show little regard for the important role played by the Holy See in international relations and of the historic ties between the Irish people and the Holy See over many centuries," said Cardinal Seán Brady.

This decision very accurately reflects the significantly changed circumstances of the historic ties between the Irish State and the Holy See.

The failure of the Holy See to adequately recognise it's manifest failings in the areas of sexual, physical and child abuse for generations has destroyed the faith of many people. Removing diplomatic relations at this level is doing nothing more than recognising the reality of the shameful way that Ireland was treated by the Vatican when information was requested from them, and recognising that the Holy See has by it's actions and failures to act done significant damage to the relationship with Ireland.

KeithAFC · 03-11-2011 11:49PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I hope not. I'd rather if the Queen visited again.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/papal-visit-for-2012-on-cards-but-protests-expected-2568362.html

Says in that article it could happen?

sock puppet · 03-11-2011 11:51PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

I couldn't give a blue ball!

It's in the middle of Rome, it's 110 acres of land. It's not a real country! i don't care what forms have been signed to say that it is!

Of course it's a real country. And if it's not a country then what is it? Unclaimed territory?

edit: though I'm actually not sure if there are differences between a country and a state

galwayrush · 03-11-2011 11:52PM

So, that top civil servant who retired with a massive golden hand shake and massive pension definitely won't be getting that cushy job now....:pac:

partyguinness · 03-11-2011 11:55PM

Good. The Vatican is not even a 'real' country. It has no economy, it has no economic trade with Ireland. It doesnt even have a place at the UN.

Hell, is it even a democracy??

The embassy in Rome is more than enough plus the Irish College at the Vatican.

My name is URL · 03-11-2011 11:55PM

What have East Timor ever done to us?

MrStuffins · 04-11-2011 12:02AM

My name is URL wrote: »

What have East Timor ever done to us?

As a great man once said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what the f*ck is a Timor Leste?"

efb · 04-11-2011 12:03AM

My name is URL wrote: »

What have East Timor ever done to us?

gave us that annoying "freedom fighter" from tallaghtmun that used visit religion classes...

Irish Steve · 04-11-2011 12:07AM

Hell,

Now there's an interesting thought. Hell on earth? Might be closer to the truth than a lot of people want to admit to.

is it even a democracy??

When the man at the top is infallible? I don't think so, not by a LONG way.

Without meaning to I think you've just very much hit the nail right on it's head with a sledgehammer.:D

Killer Pigeon · 04-11-2011 12:10AM

Why Iran? Aren't there any Irish citizens living in Iran?

carfiosaoorl · 04-11-2011 12:13AM

Nice one its about time. Now if only I could extradite myself from the church that would be great but I cant because apparently you cant leave the catholic church any more, once in always in SCUMBAGS. I dont want to be a part of your church so leave me out.

My name is URL · 04-11-2011 12:15AM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Why Iran? Aren't there any Irish citizens living in Iran?

For this alone, Ireland should keep its embassy in Iran open. Makes me laugh every time I think of it.

Following the death of Bobby Sands, President of Iran, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr sent a message of condolence to the mans family. The government renamed Winston Churchill Boulevard, the location of the Embassy of the United Kingdom in Tehran, to Bobby Sands Street, prompting the British embassy to move its entrance door to Ferdowsi Avenue to avoid using Bobby Sands Street on its letterhead.

charlemont · 04-11-2011 12:17AM

Good.

cocoshovel · 04-11-2011 12:18AM

My heart bleeds. Did we really need an embassy in East Timor and Iran (or was it Iraq they said?) either?

Pherekydes · 04-11-2011 12:23AM

My name is URL wrote: »

For this alone, Ireland should keep its embassy in Iran open. Makes me laugh every time I think of it.

I think Ireland should close it for the same reason. Britain are our closest neighbours, and not just geographically.

Killer Pigeon · 04-11-2011 12:28AM

My name is URL wrote: »

For this alone, Ireland should keep its embassy in Iran open. Makes me laugh every time I think of it.

Iran is a fairly big country anyway, I don't think the Irish embassy there should be closed, unless, of course, diplomatic relations are kept with Iran from an embassy in a neighbouring country.

lmaopml · 04-11-2011 12:30AM

Mr Gilmore said that the Government was obliged to implement cuts to meet targets set out in the EU/IMF rescue programme.
He said the closure of the three embassies would save around €1.25 million a year.

He said that while the embassy to the Holy See was one of Ireland's oldest missions, it yielded no economic return, and that Ireland's interests could be sufficiently represented by a non-resident ambassador.

While, despite current trends online, this doesn't exactly thrill me, that 'no economic return' is the guage of value, and I do 'like' economic return, and as an Irish citizen am feeling more than a little miffed by our friends indecision in Europe

...I think it's really a liberty that politicians are making, and a bad decision. Fickle, short sighted and not exactly a money saver - there are better things they could do to 'save' money.

Hey, it will lay to rest along with all the other 'non economic returns' that have had 'cuts', special needs assistants, education, health etc. etc. Historic relationships doesn't even compare really - even when the working person who is keeping the country going doesn't get consulted on such 'minor' details...and the decision makers are only interested in a hip hurrah - any hip hurrah will do...

It's non-sensical and silly, a coughed up hairball to 'saving' from a populist and very unimaginative out of ideas Politician who is desperate for notice of some sort.

...Irish people travel abroad to Italy and Vatican city, and they travel here to. What's to be gained by this? It's a mollycoddle - nothing more.

Alan b. · 04-11-2011 12:32AM

to be fair, having a foreign embassy is hardly as much of a nessessity now as it was in the past, considering how easy it is to traval to all corners of the world and video link confrencing etc etc.

the vatican is as much a country as sealand is.

32_4_1 · 04-11-2011 12:34AM

this government is a cowardly joke. so when is the british embassy getting closed down?

its easy for enda and the rest of the irish conservative party to stand up to the vatican when they know everyone is behind them, internationally too. but when being faced with the british government, the cowardly british apologists (fine gael) roll over, just as fianna fail did. its like acting hard with all your mates behind you, not so tough on your own. where was endas scathing verbal attacks on the british government, just as happened on the church? no instead, he licks their arse.

i dont condone any of the abuse that went over here throughout the decades which involved the church, but the hypocrisy is a joke. look what the brits did, but the attitude is the past is the past. yet, when it comes to the church and vatican wheres all the past is the past rubbish?

Bannasidhe · 04-11-2011 12:36AM

John Doe1 wrote: »

In many cases, you remove the embassy from the country before you start wars with them,

We could so take Leste Timor!

df1985 · 04-11-2011 12:41AM

I dont think its any coincidence we're getting out of Iran.....hello US/UK air strikes.

Erinfan · 04-11-2011 12:44AM

Are the signs of the times?
Personally I was moved by this information and I guess it was a time of great wrench for Taoish.
It's like an old couple divorce.

I'm not Irish and I am aware of the scandals pedoph....surrounding the Catholic clergy but is it enough to cut off diplomatic relations.

If Ireland is sovereign enough to cut diplomatic relations with the Vatican ,it must be able to apprehend, judge and condemn its citizens or not who commit such acts.

Does ireland is not doing the policy of the ostrich that is hiding its head in the sand?

mikemac · 04-11-2011 12:51AM

Erinfan wrote: »

I'm not Irish

Erinfan wrote: »

Does ireland is not doing the policy of the ostrich that is hiding its head in the sand?

How about you worry over your own country?

MrStuffins · 04-11-2011 01:05AM

32_4_1 wrote: »

this government is a cowardly joke. so when is the british embassy getting closed down?

its easy for enda and the rest of the irish conservative party to stand up to the vatican when they know everyone is behind them, internationally too. but when being faced with the british government, the cowardly british apologists (fine gael) roll over, just as fianna fail did. its like acting hard with all your mates behind you, not so tough on your own. where was endas scathing verbal attacks on the british government, just as happened on the church? no instead, he licks their arse.

i dont condone any of the abuse that went over here throughout the decades which involved the church, but the hypocrisy is a joke. look what the brits did, but the attitude is the past is the past. yet, when it comes to the church and vatican wheres all the past is the past rubbish?

Yawn.......

Alan b. · 04-11-2011 01:07AM

Erinfan wrote: »

Are the signs of the times?
Personally I was moved by this information and I guess it was a time of great wrench for Taoish.
It's like an old couple divorce.

I'm not Irish and I am aware of the scandals pedoph....surrounding the Catholic clergy but is it enough to cut off diplomatic relations.

If Ireland is sovereign enough to cut diplomatic relations with the Vatican ,it must be able to apprehend, judge and condemn its citizens or not who commit such acts.

Does ireland is not doing the policy of the ostrich that is hiding its head in the sand?

what in the name of f**K does that lot mean????

Haelium · 04-11-2011 01:14AM

€1.25 million doesn't seem like a big deal. If we fired a few top RTE employees we could save more and improve RTE at the same time.

Or just not bailing out bondholders.

Pulling out of the Vatican makes sense, but Iran and East Timor are real countries, we should seek good relations with all countries if possible.

Badgermonkey · 04-11-2011 01:30AM

Irish Steve wrote: »

Removing diplomatic relations at this level is doing nothing more than recognising the reality of the shameful way that Ireland was treated by the Vatican when information was requested from them....

Relations are strained but intact and will remain so. Timing isn't great and it could of course be construed as a snub, but that would be a surprisingly short-sighted act if it were shown to be the case.

The Swedes recently closed their Embassy in Dublin and while there was some regret at the move, the need for high-level diplomatic representation intra-EU is a bit of an anachronism. Given our current difficulties, a tightening of the belt at the profligate DoFA is a welcome development methinks.

languagenerd · 04-11-2011 01:40AM

Agent Smith wrote: »

Iran, can't imagine there being a big Irish community there.
Same with east Timor.

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Iran is a fairly big country anyway, I don't think the Irish embassy there should be closed, unless, of course, diplomatic relations are kept with Iran from an embassy in a neighbouring country.

Whatever about the Vatican, I don't think they should close the one in Iran! There were (possibly still are) a lot of Irish aid workers there at one point, there are Irish journalists/correspondents and probably a few tourists/backpackers too. Think about it, imagine an Irish person losing their passport in Iran... Or if there was any sort of disaster there (natural, political or otherwise), shouldn't we have an embassy to help Irish citizens and, where necessary, get them out of there?

I haven't heard anything about East Timor in years, so I won't comment on it.

Corsendonk · 04-11-2011 01:42AM

Australia and Canada were in discussion about sharing embassies around the world to cut costs which makes sense. Perhaps Ireland could do the same.

lmaopml · 04-11-2011 01:44AM

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Relations are strained but intact and will remain so. Timing isn't great and it could of course be construed as a snub, but that would be a surprisingly short-sighted act if it were shown to be the case.

The Swedes recently closed their Embassy in Dublin and while there was some regret at the move, the need for high-level diplomatic representation intra-EU is a bit of an anachronism. Given our current difficulties, a tightening of the belt at the profligate DoFA is a welcome development methinks.

The Swedes closed their embassy, but offered Ireland a bilateral loan with terms. This is only part of intra EU anachronism in difficult times....

Irish embassy to the Vatican to be closed.

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