Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Podge_irl wrote: »

I don't have the equivalent stats for the Pro12 this season, but even if Leinster are conceding as many penalties as Munster (which I doubt) they are doing it in the right area of the pitch. The points scored against them from penalties is a good bit less then the points scored against Munster from penalties.

That's pretty much it. Leinster do concede penalties but, when it matters, they can rely on their defence such as the last 10 minutes of the Saracens game last season. When they're conceding converted penalties, it's generally when Leinster are comfortable and ahead and not when the penalty will cost them. In the knock out games last season, Leinster conceded 12 points from penalties in 3 matches. That's a very stingy and disciplined defence.

GerM wrote: »

I'd certainly agree with that. People go on about unseen work. The thing about unseen work is that if you look for it, it is very easily seen. His tackle counts were once upon a time almost always the highest in the pack. Now they're average. He doesn't smash rucks. He doesn't carry ball. He doesn't offer a threat in the line out. I really cannot fathom why McGahan went with him at the expense of Coughlan.

Central contract?

The Irish Times - Thursday, November 3, 2011
McGahan looks for a lift in confidence

Munster coach Tony McGahan hopes tomorrow's game against Leinster will give his side a timely boost ahead of their Heineken Cup clash with Northampton. Photograph: Stu Forster/Getty Images
In this section »
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HEINEKEN CUP & RABODIRECT PRO12: Tuesday’s highlights package has sharpened the focus of Munster’s coach after a reminder of their minimal contribution to last season’s Heineken Cup, writes GERRY THORNLEY

THERE IT was in all its glory – musically accompanied, stylish images of last season’s Heineken Cup, shown on two large screens as well as a monitor in front of the four Irish provincial captains. Rarely can there have been so little footage of Munster from a Heineken Cup campaign.

Not once in the last 13 years have the two-time winners and four-time finalists had to wait so long, fully 10 months, for a game in the competition. Munster coach and captain alike probably didn’t need a highlights package at Tuesday’s launch in Dublin to remind them that their contribution was unusually minimal.

“It certainly sharpens the mind when you watch a highlights tape of last year and you’re nowhere to be seen,” admitted Tony McGahan. “You’re seeing the opposition holding up a trophy, so if you needed a reminder of where you’re at and what gets you going, it was brilliant to be honest.”

Timely too, given they’re playing the European champions this Friday, though Tuesday’s enforced reminder meant McGahan and Paul O’Connell missed Munster’s training sessions.

“It doesn’t help before the biggest game in the calendar on the domestic scene with a sell-out crowd at the Aviva Stadium,” he noted with typical dryness.

McGahan admits the sight of Northampton welcoming back their World Cup returnees over the last two weekends forced his hand to some extent against Aironi last Friday, when starting six of Munster’s seven-man contingent who played in the quarter-final against Wales – the exception being Donncha O’Callaghan.

With his front-liners limited to a certain number of appearances over this eight-game window, he resolved to take the hit later in order to have his team better primed for the visit of a Northampton side who he has rated as one of the very best in Europe since their three meetings two years ago.

Asked how close he was to finalising his starting XV to play Northampton, he admitted: “Not that close. I’ve got a few places sorted, but not a clear 15 at this stage.” Thus, if there had to be one game to fast-track their readiness for a return to Europe, then, he admitted “there’s none better in the calendar”, adding: “I think that every time you see the clubs meet, the intensity is unmatched. It’s final’s rugby in a league competition, so it’s going to be beneficial to both groups.”

The ripple effect of Leinster’s 13-9 win in the corresponding fixture last season were significant.

Whereas, after one win in four beforehand, it launched a six-match winning sequence for Leinster, it ended Munster’s four-match winning start and precipitated an even costlier 23-17 loss in London Irish a week later.

“They dogged it out,” reflected McGahan on that 13-9 loss.

“We had some really good opportunities and we couldn’t get the ball across the line in the first half and they scored a try at 70 minutes. And there’s turning points like that in seasons. So we’re hoping that can be a turning point for us this season, to give us that real lift in confidence from playing away from home against a really good side.”

The post-mortem on Munster’s ensuing exit at the pool stages was long, detailed and painful. The memory of the defeat in Toulon is freshest, but the losses away to London Irish and the Ospreys, where their lineout and scrum in turn faltered badly, had left them behind the cue ball when facing an on-fire Toulon.

“The key for us is converting our opportunities,” says McGahan with last season in mind. “We left tries behind at London Irish, we left tries behind at the Ospreys, and there’s probably six (match) points which (you’d need) to qualify and give yourselves an opportunity of going further.

“Set-piece without a doubt is another key area, in particular our scrum. That’s a big one. I think the other one is getting a really strong balance between playing and not playing. But those things are right across every side in every competition. You’ve seen it at the World Cup. But we need to get those three rugby areas right.”

Munster, he reflects, gave away 20 points to London Irish off their own possession and on foot of the loss away to the Ospreys Munster resolved to sign Springbok tighthead BJ Botha from Ulster.

McGahan maintains their own stats have shown an improvement in the scrum both last season and again so far in this campaign. “More importantly on our own ball but in particular in putting pressure on opposition ball, and giving ourselves a platform to play off. It’s one thing about winning ball off set-piece but it’s another in getting quality ball to actually play off. That was the key for us.”

Botha has, he admits, been integral to that improvement, not only in his actual scrummaging but in providing leadership “as a figurehead in that position and also educating the other young props coming through. Stephen Archer has got a fantastic future at tighthead and it’s going to be of huge benefit (to him) having someone like BJ around.”

McGahan has something of a moral dilemma in that John Hayes, on 99, is one appearance away from becoming the first player in the Heineken Cup’s history to reach a century (with Ronan O’Gara another game behind). Put another way, he wouldn’t like to leave the Bull marooned on 99.

“No, I wouldn’t like to make that decision,” McGahan admitted with another wry smile. Hayes is on a short-term contract in the continuing absence of the injured Peter Borlase, and McGahan observed: “We’ve got four weeks of intense scrummaging, so certainly someone of John’s experience is going to be of huge benefit to us.” The inference clearly is that Hayes will reach the landmark next weekend against Northampton.

Munster’s successes through the noughties was in large part founded on a rich seam of backrowers from the AIL era, but with the retirements of Eddie Halvey, Anthony Foley and Alan Quinlan compounded by David Wallace’s long-term absence, the conveyor belt is now being tested like never before.

The late-developing James Coughlan, last season’s player of the year, has become a standard-bearer, and the cognoscenti expect great things of Peter O’Mahony, with much now falling on Denis Leamy to have a stellar campaign.

“It’s certainly a major part of the game with regard to presence within the game itself in the contact area, whether through carry, breakdown and clean,” admits McGahan. “But look, the players that you’ve just listed had to learn their trade and they were there for a long period of time to get to that point. They didn’t arrive there at that level, they learned that off each other and they learned that at the highest level, both winning and losing at home and away in big games.”

“We’re really confident with what we’ve got there. There’s certainly not the name player there, but it’s about getting the job done and we believe they can.”

At any rate, this campaign marks something of a watershed.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Not sure really.

If he is holding back, why didn't he do it last week?!

Hard to know, more comments on youth development here.

Red storm rising

By Hugh Farrelly


Friday November 04 2011

THE adjectives tell the story. Gnarled, grizzly, gruesome -- words readily associated with Munster over the years, a province whose image has always revolved around a hard core of 'been-there, done-that' merchants taking no prisoners in pursuit of victory.

At the moment, those roles are filled by the likes of Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callaghan, Denis Leamy and Ronan O'Gara, men who inherited the mantle from players like Mick Galwey, John Langford, Jim Williams and Peter Clohessy a decade ago.

But this is a phenomenon that pre-dates professionalism, from Terry Kingston and Ger Earls through Moss Keane, Colm Tucker, Donal Lenihan and back to the eras of Jerry Walsh and Tom Clifford.

Those entrenched perceptions are hard to shake, but there is a fresh energy around the Munster camp these days, founded on a clutch of youngsters who are not merely content to draw a wage and make the Munster squad but are driven by the desire to make their own names -- even if that means forcing iconic Munster players out of the picture.

Munster coaches in the professional era will always be judged on their Heineken Cup exploits. Alan Gaffney did good work between 2002 and 2005 but could not lead Munster to European glory and that is something that has also eluded Tony McGahan in his three seasons at the helm.

However, even though last season brought the ignominy of a Heineken Cup pool exit for the first time since the late 1990s, McGahan's developing of younger players meant 2010/11 was still a productive campaign -- for Munster and Irish rugby -- with an excellent Celtic League triumph providing fitting validation.

There has been a lot of talk of Munster falling behind in the underage game and there are, undoubtedly, issues to be resolved when it comes to forging a successful relationship with the schools. However, the emergence of youngsters such as Conor Murray, Mike Sherry, Peter O'Mahony and Danny Barnes is testament to a progressive policy under McGahan and (while adopting a Declan Kidney-style reluctance to accept personal plaudits) the Australian is encouraged by the progress being made on the regeneration front.

"It is gratifying," concedes McGahan. "With any coach in any environment, in any sport, you are there to teach. And there is a group of young players who are not just coming in to be part of the squad but are coming in with an expectation to play and an expectation to be successful and win.

"That's a really important process and one that needs to be handled carefully, to decide when to give them an opportunity, which they may take and go on to be successful."

Opportunities abounded when Munster's Ireland players were away on World Cup duty and McGahan admits it was hard leaving out the likes of Barnes and O'Mahony for tonight's encounter.

"Learning how to deal with disappointment is part of it," says McGahan. "And there are different factors to consider, whether it's experience or performance, as well as the make-up of the group, who you are playing, the style you want to play and the style the opposition is going to play.

"Like all strong clubs, whether it's Manchester United or whoever, if you want come in and take a spot off an established player, you are going to have to have a real point of difference there and make sure you are outperforming them."

One of the new breed who does start tonight is scrum-half Murray, a player who, like Keith Earls before him, has flourished under McGahan since being given his opportunity last season. The Munster coach was delighted, but not surprised, by Murray's success at the World Cup, and pays tribute to the time put in at club level with the scrum-half and to the player's own attitude and work ethic.

"Conor was tremendous at the World Cup but you need to look at his club stuff, through Garryowen. Conor has been training with us for a while but I think Greg Oliver's role has been really significant. More importantly, there is Conor himself, his own personality and his own drive.

"It's a bit of maturity, a bit of reality, it's about being humble, not thinking you know it all and having a really strong work ethic and a real desire to seek improvement. Those qualities sum up Conor."

Bringing through the next generation is a constant, fluid process for McGahan, but he admits it is easier in some positions than others, citing the example of Ian Nagle -- Man of the Match in the second-row against Australia last year, courted by Northampton, but short on game time since.

"Lock is one position where we are extremely fortunate. We have Donncha and Paul who have been stalwarts of the national side for a long period of time, we have Mick O'Driscoll, a superb player, and Donnacha Ryan making a big impact at domestic and national levels.

"Then you have the likes of Ian and Dave Foley pushing through, who in other clubs would be close to starting. Two tremendous young players who we believe have got a huge future and you don't know what possibilities can open up -- you saw Conor and Mike Sherry push their way through this year.

"But what a wonderful way to learn your craft off so many good players and to be ready so that when the opportunity does come, you nail it down."

The youth factor is one reason why McGahan believes Ireland can take a lot of encouragement from their World Cup performance, claiming that the talent is coming through at the right rate of development for England 2015.

"Irish rugby can take a lot of heart from the World Cup -- beating Australia in the southern hemisphere, topping the group for the first time. It's not often you get to split the Tri-Nations sides down the middle and have them all on one side. That was a wonderful pathway to have and that is why all the players are saying that it was a wasted opportunity.

"But the quality of the (Ireland) squad that is being developed and the quality of young player on show in the provinces is massive, and it is about creating those timelines to engage with that. You look at that Australian side and maybe they were a bit too early in some respects with regards to maturity and how they play the game at different points. It is about getting the process right."

Something McGahan is doing successfully at Munster as is Joe Schmidt at Leinster. The cream of Irish rugby talent will run out tonight in Lansdowne Road but, in the long term, it is the respective benches containing names like Hagan, Ruddock, Madigan, O'Malley, O'Mahony and Barnes pointing the way forward.

- Hugh Farrelly

Irish Independent

GerM wrote: »

I'm impressed that Farrelly can type so well with only one hand.

You disagree that guys like Murray, Nagle, Sherry and POM are good players?

pajunior wrote: »

I doubt anyone would disagree that they are all players with potential but only one of them will be playing tonight.

True, but hopefully POM will come on at some point. Sherry's injured, otherwise I reckon he might have a chance at starting.

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

You disagree that guys like Murray, Nagle, Sherry and POM are good players?

Not at all but Farrelly is a sycophant. He's well regarded as someone that will never speak ill of his beloved Munster and the first several paragraphs are awful. When all around him are criticising the dropping of POM for a far inferior Ronan, he throws out an article lauding Munster's development and the ethos that prevails through the generations of Munster rugby. It's fawning in the extreme.

If he wanted to praise the players, why isn't he asking why these players are discarded as soon as a high profile game arrives? McGahan says a player needs to be really outperforming the other option to make the team. Surely the question needs to be asked does he really think Ronan is outperforming POM? Niall Ronan is hardly an established first team player.

porterbelly wrote: »

Farrelly has a bee in his bonnet about opensides. O'Mahony may have potential but he's built up to be world class, same with Dom Ryan, yet neither are starting tomorrow. Ryan doesn't make the squad. Fair enough, both deserve a chance but if they're not seen as integral to their teams tonight then how are they supposed to be the next Irish openside? Also, he absoloutely adores Willie Faloon. Faloon showed glimpses at times last season of a very good player but Farrelly sees fit to ignore glaring deficiencies in his game, such as being too light and having shag all impact at the breakdown and continuosly builds him to be at ireland's solution to the problem at 7. He ignores the fact that the best option at 7 we have if you want a pure bread dog of war openside is Johnny O Connor. he basically has a fetish for Faloon especially, O'Mahony and Ryan as well despite the fact that they've proved very little. Ya they have potential but the column inches he gives them day in day out are undeserved and he's built them up to levels they haven't come near reaching

You need a maddog at 7 alright, but despite being one, O'Connor isn't good enough, he's all heart but he could do with more ability. I hope Grace has that level of craziness (POM and Ryan don't, imo).

GerM wrote: »

I'm impressed that Farrelly can type so well with only one hand.

Pot. Kettle. Black. I've listened to your podcast!

You guys will have to be mindful now as to how you criticise the critics.