Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 03-11-2011 01:04PM

padraig.od wrote: »

Munster will never move forward with McGahan. Is that pretty much the same team that limped out of the HC against Toulon?

Hayes Coghlan Wallace Stringer Tuitupou and Warwick all startedagainst Toulon

bamboozle · 03-11-2011 01:12PM

from a Leinster perspective Munster will have a solid scrum and a solid lineout, Mafi/Chambers combo should be exploited

padraig.od · 03-11-2011 01:13PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Hayes Coghlan Wallace Stringer Tuitupou and Warwick all startedagainst Toulon

Ah yes, Leamy started at 6 and Ryan came on in the second half.

Wallace, Warwick and maybe Tuitipou are arguably better than what has replaced them. A depressing selection.

pappyodaniel · 03-11-2011 01:15PM

People need to relax. McGahan picked his strongest side. I would take issue with a few of his selections but he is the coach and his neck is on the line. A Munster/Leinster match should never be taken lightly and he must believe that this team has the best opportunity in beating Leinster.

Can't wait for this match now!

wixfjord · 03-11-2011 01:17PM

pappyodaniel wrote: »

People need to relax. McGahan picked his strongest side. I would take issue with a few of his selections but he is the coach and his neck is on the line. A Munster/Leinster match should never be taken lightly and he must believe that this team has the best opportunity in beating Leinster.

Can't wait for this match now!

Did he?
A 6 at 8, a ML standard player ahead of "the new Richie McCaw" at 7, and a SR at 6? A mediocre winger at fb, and TOL on the bench?

Would Ryan at 4, Leamy at 6, POM at 7 and Coughlan not have been most people's choices?

padraig.od · 03-11-2011 01:18PM

pappyodaniel wrote: »

People need to relax. McGahan picked his strongest side. I would take issue with a few of his selections but he is the coach and his neck is on the line. A Munster/Leinster match should never be taken lightly and he must believe that this team has the best opportunity in beating Leinster.

Can't wait for this match now!

He's been picking his strongest side for 3 years now and consistently losing.

wixfjord · 03-11-2011 01:19PM

One place I am sure Munster believe they have the upper hand is at scrum time.
Hines is a huge loss for Leinster and a scrum with Toner in it is never as solid.
Botha and Healy will be a big battle.

pappyodaniel · 03-11-2011 01:29PM

wixfjord wrote: »

Did he?
A 6 at 8, a ML standard player ahead of "the new Richie McCaw" at 7, and a SR at 6? A mediocre winger at fb, and TOL on the bench?

Would Ryan at 4, Leamy at 6, POM at 7 and Coughlan not have been most people's choices?

He picked HIS strongest side, not mine or yours. MY strongest side would be closer to your one. I do think we are getting carried away with the adulation being bestowed on the young PO'M. Tbf to the lad he has been performing but I'd be more impressed with young Dom Ryan up at Leinster. This will be a bruising encounter so we will definately see a bit of PO'M, hopefully close to 30 mins gametime.

Who would you put in at fullback? Earls, Hurley, Keatley? I'd have more trust in Jonny Murphy to do the basics ahead of the other lads.

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 01:40PM

padraig.od wrote: »

He's been picking his strongest side for 3 years now and consistently losing.

Not really, McGahan's record with Munster is first year) won the ML, lost HEC semi-final, second year lost ML and HEC semi-finals, third year, won ML, lost Amlin semi-final. Objectively, he's got a better record than most coaches in Europe, subjectively, this period has co-incided with Leinster's (inevitable) rise so it seems worse than it is. Most coaches would love to have two league wins on their CV.

That being said, I don't see what's behind the team selection for tomorrow, particularly Ronan at 7. We know he can't cut it. I expect leinster to win easily enough.

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 01:43PM

wixfjord wrote: »

Did he?
A 6 at 8, a ML standard player ahead of "the new Richie McCaw" at 7, and a SR at 6? A mediocre winger at fb, and TOL on the bench?

Would Ryan at 4, Leamy at 6, POM at 7 and Coughlan not have been most people's choices?

Interestingly enough, Eric Miller said he rated Leamy as one of Ireland's best 7's. Now, I don't fully agree but who am I to argue with a Lion, how would a backrow of Ryan, Leamy and Coughlan have fared? Definite lack of pace to my mind but if the alternative is picking Ronan?

Cpt_Blackbeard · 03-11-2011 01:48PM

Our only chance of winning was by playing our strongest backrow. Leinster's backrow is beastly but, we could gain parity with Leamy, POM and Coughlan, were they up for the occasion. McGahan has just handed the game to Leinster with that team selection.

Just when I thought we had turned a corner at the end of last season with regards to trusting youth, they are all jettisoned at the first opportunity. Of the team picked:
2. Varley is our best available Hooker
4. Ryan is a better 4 than DOC
6. Leamy is a better BS than Ryan
7. Anyone is a better OS than the Leinster reject, POM is miles better.
8. Coughlan is a better 8 than Leamy
12/13. Barnes shouldn't have been dropped.
11. Zebo/Hurley/Murphy should be on the wing.
15. Earls should be ahead of the other Leinster reject.
20. Why the fúck is TOL ahead of Stringer/Williams?

Leinster by 8points

Fireball07 · 03-11-2011 01:53PM

Not good. Not good at all.

Coughlan is a fine player, the form Munster player of last year...no way he should be dropped. POM has been impressive so far, there's no way he should be dropped for Ronan. I don't mind Ryan/Leamy playing but not both of them in the backrow. DOC is very strong in defence imo, I don't mind him starting. I'd prefer Stringer on the bench too...

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 02:01PM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Our only chance of winning was by playing our strongest backrow. Leinster's backrow is beastly but, we could gain parity with Leamy, POM and Coughlan, were they up for the occasion. McGahan has just handed the game to Leinster with that team selection.

Just when I thought we had turned a corner at the end of last season with regards to trusting youth, they are all jettisoned at the first opportunity. Of the team picked:
2. Varley is our best available Hooker
4. Ryan is a better 4 than DOC
6. Leamy is a better BS than Ryan
7. Anyone is a better OS than the Leinster reject, POM is miles better.
8. Coughlan is a better 8 than Leamy
12/13. Barnes shouldn't have been dropped.
11. Zebo/Hurley/Murphy should be on the wing.
15. Earls should be ahead of the other Leinster reject.
20. Why the fúck is TOL ahead of Stringer/Williams?

Leinster by 8points

I don't know, POM gets seriously knocked around every game, maybe bringing him off the bench is best?

Wrt to Barnes and Zebo, both are still very raw. Zebo in particular could go either way atm, I can see why neither are starting.

profitius · 03-11-2011 02:07PM

POM has been playing every week and captaining the side but the first big match comes and hes dropped. Big decision from McGahan. Backward decision IMO.

Dropping Barnes is a shocker too.

Moving Leamy to 8 is the right call. Not sure if Coughlan is 100% but in the big intense games Leamy is better suited. Ryan at 6 adds some physicality too but its needed if Ronan is playing at 7.

ed7890 · 03-11-2011 02:10PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I don't know, POM gets seriously knocked around every game, maybe bringing him off the bench is best?

Wrt to Barnes and Zebo, both are still very raw. Zebo in particular could go either way atm, I can see why neither are starting.

Zebo yes, but Barnes has been playing regularly and overall has been as good as anybody in the backs. He played the ML playoffs last year, so he's capable of playing big games, but he needs more of them to keep developing.

Its fine if it's just to give Chambers a chance to settle, and Barnes played last week so Mafi is playing here. But I just hope this isn't a sign of things to come and young guys sit on the sidelines for big games while we play NIQs.

03-11-2011 02:14PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Interestingly enough, Eric Miller said he rated Leamy as one of Ireland's best 7's. Now, I don't fully agree but who am I to argue with a Lion, how would a backrow of Ryan, Leamy and Coughlan have fared? Definite lack of pace to my mind but if the alternative is picking Ronan?

A backrow which manages to get Coughlan in at 8, and still contain lineout option in Ryan, and bruising play in Leamy is certainly preferable to playing Leamy in his worst position on the back-row, and having Niall Ronan at 7. Even though you'd almost completely ignore the idea of having an openside, at least they'd have 3 players who can do something on the pitch.

Coughlan has been Munster's best back rower for the past 11 months. Leamy hasn't had form at 8 in a little over 2 years now, and Ronan hasn't really cut it at any stage in his career. Volumes spoken that POM has been miles better than him without really excelling in recent weeks.

Baffling selection to be honest. Can't wrap my head around it.

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 02:15PM

ed7890 wrote: »

Zebo yes, but Barnes has been playing regularly and overall has been as good as anybody in the backs. He played the ML playoffs last year, so he's capable of playing big games, but he needs more of them to keep developing.

Its fine if it's just to give Chambers a chance to settle, and Barnes played last week so Mafi is playing here. But I just hope this isn't a sign of things to come and young guys sit on the sidelines for big games while we play NIQs.

It's worrying from Barnes pov that Chambers is clearly seen as a 13 alright. I'd much rather see him at 12 and Barnes at 13, with Mafi either on the wing, bench, stands, wherever.

Fishooks12 · 03-11-2011 02:15PM

Really disappointing selection and I fear that back-row may be put to the sword

What does POM have to do to get his place!

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 02:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A backrow which manages to get Coughlan in at 8, and still contain lineout option in Ryan, and bruising play in Leamy is certainly preferable to playing Leamy in his worst position on the back-row, and having Niall Ronan at 7. Even though you'd almost completely ignore the idea of having an openside, at least they'd have 3 players who can do something on the pitch.

Coughlan has been Munster's best back rower for the past 11 months. Leamy hasn't had form at 8 in a little over 2 years now, and Ronan hasn't really cut it at any stage in his career. Volumes spoken that POM has been miles better than him without really excelling in recent weeks.

Baffling selection to be honest. Can't wrap my head around it.

Can only assume we'll make a raft of changes early in the second half and this game is just being used as a warm-up to the HEC. Dangerous gambit from mcgahan if so because he's really losing the pr battle with the fans.

GerM · 03-11-2011 02:17PM

Not too shocked about the selection. The Ronan inclusion was heavily rumoured yesterday. Think POM is the right man for it but he has shown some poor judgement and hot headedness recently. That said, Ronan has been more than willing to come up with his fair share of silly penalties too. Munster have gone for what is, overall, a very big and physical pack. I expect to see them play it very tight, going through their set piece and looking to maul Leinster. Back row is the big disparity. There's very little between the front five but I don't think there's anyone that would take any of the Munster trio ahead of SOB, Heaslip and Jennings. Reckon that's where the game will be won and lost.

wixfjord · 03-11-2011 02:32PM

THOMOND where is that match thread?!!

Need something to get me through the afternoon!

Riskymove · 03-11-2011 02:33PM

wixfjord wrote: »

THOMOND where is that match thread?!!

Need something to get me through the afternoon!

I think its been banned

profitius · 03-11-2011 02:40PM

Just going over the team. McGahan has been there 3 years now and this is what he has come up with.

J Murphy - Couldn't make the Leinster squad. A decent player and on form this season but limited. A stop gap player in reality.
W Chambers - Reds squad player in super rugby. Looked alright so we'll give him more time to judge.
L Mafi - Decent squad player from the Kidney era. Prone to making defensive errors and being too one dimensional. First choice player now.
Earls - On the wing for Munster but maybe he is better at 15?
C Murray - Class players who was 4th choice last season who needed luck to break through as others got injured.
W du Preez - Decent in the scrum but offers nothing around the field. Poor signing.
D Varley - Poor player at this level because he can't throw.
BJ Botha - Excellent prop but Munster had to break the bank to sign him.
D O'Callaghan - Turns up every once in a while. His place is guaranteed though so its no problem.
D Ryan - Relegated to fourth choice last season for no reason. Outplaying DOC but still has to wait in the queue.
N Ronan - Leinster rejected this player years ago when they were struggling in the forwards! Hes still starting for Munster in the big games ahead of bette players. He lacks physicality for anything above average Rabo games.

Barnes, POM, Keatley automatically gets dropped. Ryan has to move to the backrow position when DOC is about.

TOL gets on the bench ahead of Stringer.

Hayes and Fogarty have no business being in the Munster squad at all at this stage.

There are also players floating around the squad for years now with nothing happening.

All in all you can see why some people are underwhelmed with this selection. It hints at more of the same for the coming season. I've been willing to give McGahan the benefit of the doubt in the past few seasons but not anymore. If Munster do not take a step forward this season I think he should be left go. He is in a position other coaches would give their right hand for and has had plenty of time to move Munster forward.

thomond2006 · 03-11-2011 02:41PM

wixfjord wrote: »

THOMOND where is that match thread?!!

Need something to get me through the afternoon!

Riskymove wrote: »

I think its been banned

College work is setting it back, it will be up by 7pm. Promise.

I actually have a life outside boards you know!

Otacon · 03-11-2011 03:05PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I actually have a life outside boards you know!

Pfft! Don't lie.

Being serious for a minute, Munster's performances recently hadn't exactly filled me with confidence but that team selection simply depresses me.

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 03:15PM

GerM wrote: »

Not too shocked about the selection. The Ronan inclusion was heavily rumoured yesterday. Think POM is the right man for it but he has shown some poor judgement and hot headedness recently. That said, Ronan has been more than willing to come up with his fair share of silly penalties too. Munster have gone for what is, overall, a very big and physical pack. I expect to see them play it very tight, going through their set piece and looking to maul Leinster. Back row is the big disparity. There's very little between the front five but I don't think there's anyone that would take any of the Munster trio ahead of SOB, Heaslip and Jennings. Reckon that's where the game will be won and lost.

Munster haven't played it tight in a long time though, we're too lateral for our own good these days.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 03-11-2011 03:16PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I actually have a life outside boards you know!

Yes going to Munster matches. I don't think Munster are playing this afternoon

No excuse thomond

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 06:12PM

profitius wrote: »

Just going over the team. McGahan has been there 3 years now and this is what he has come up with.

J Murphy - Couldn't make the Leinster squad. A decent player and on form this season but limited. A stop gap player in reality.
W Chambers - Reds squad player in super rugby. Looked alright so we'll give him more time to judge.
L Mafi - Decent squad player from the Kidney era. Prone to making defensive errors and being too one dimensional. First choice player now.
Earls - On the wing for Munster but maybe he is better at 15?
C Murray - Class players who was 4th choice last season who needed luck to break through as others got injured.
W du Preez - Decent in the scrum but offers nothing around the field. Poor signing.
D Varley - Poor player at this level because he can't throw.
BJ Botha - Excellent prop but Munster had to break the bank to sign him.
D O'Callaghan - Turns up every once in a while. His place is guaranteed though so its no problem.
D Ryan - Relegated to fourth choice last season for no reason. Outplaying DOC but still has to wait in the queue.
N Ronan - Leinster rejected this player years ago when they were struggling in the forwards! Hes still starting for Munster in the big games ahead of bette players. He lacks physicality for anything above average Rabo games.

Barnes, POM, Keatley automatically gets dropped. Ryan has to move to the backrow position when DOC is about.

TOL gets on the bench ahead of Stringer.

Hayes and Fogarty have no business being in the Munster squad at all at this stage.

There are also players floating around the squad for years now with nothing happening.

All in all you can see why some people are underwhelmed with this selection. It hints at more of the same for the coming season. I've been willing to give McGahan the benefit of the doubt in the past few seasons but not anymore. If Munster do not take a step forward this season I think he should be left go. He is in a position other coaches would give their right hand for and has had plenty of time to move Munster forward.

All well and good bemoaning the lack of players brought through but are the players there to be brought through? Our Academy made a misjudgment with what props to promote, the Ryans and buckley but the way the game was going it did look like the scrum was being depowered. It's an understandable mistake.

I'm also surprised at the criticism DOC gets, he's a workhorse who allows POC play well, yes it'd be great if he could/would carry the ball, but he's hardly slacking in what he already does.

phog · 03-11-2011 06:40PM

Some people are looking at this game a must win game when in fact it's an away league game that leads us into two H/C games that could probably define our year, maybe he's testing some and resting others in his team selection.

Amazotheamazing · 03-11-2011 07:30PM

phog wrote: »

Some people are looking at this game a must win game when in fact it's an away league game that leads us into two H/C games that could probably define our year, maybe he's testing some and resting others in his team selection.

Like I said though, McGahan is losing or has lost the pr battle. Objectively his results are quite good. Two leagues in three years, a fair amount of young players brought in (I reckon Sherry and Jones would be first choice players for us now but for injury). It's strange. I understand the HEC is the be-all and end all but still.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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