Is blacking up for Halloween Racist?

wobbles · 30-10-2011 10:05PM

Know a bunch of lads who went to a fancy dress party (granted it wasnt halloween) dressed as the KKK. They got some funny looks alright, and were stopped going into the club where the party was as the bouncers thought it inappropriate. Little did they know 2 of the group were black so when they showed the bouncers this, they let them in.

If its done in good fun, it shouldnt matter at all what you dress as

busyliving · 30-10-2011 10:08PM

I wonder would anyone think twice about a black person dressing up as a white person...which I wouldn't have any issues with, and I don't see why dressing up as a black person is wrong...as long as your not dressed up as a black cotton picker, now that would be over the line I'd reckon

hawkelady · 30-10-2011 10:11PM

deep voice,,,,,,Oh Lordy pick a bale........ and Born on a Sunday when the sun didnt shine.....

Both classics!!!

woodoo · 30-10-2011 10:16PM

No way

Be||e · 30-10-2011 10:21PM

People dress up as Mr T because they think he's cool as fcuk... :cool:

Not because they are trying to mock his race/skin colour.

Killer Wench · 30-10-2011 10:23PM

MyKeyG wrote: »

I think you're being a little bit extreme. In the examples you state there was an attempt by unenlightened people to use stereotypes to blatantly offend a particular race. People dressing as black characters for Halloween is not done out of malice or in order to resurrect a period of oppression. Nobody is dressing as a lazy/raping/singing/dancing black.

Who are you to second guess peoples motives? If I choose to dress as Snoop Dog because he's my favourite artist who are you to say I'm doing it to mock the black race for the purposes of entertainment?

The only person here empowering stereotype from my point of view my friend is you!

Yep, I think it is mockery, my new best friend forever. First, if Snoop Dogg was your favorite artist, I would highly doubt that you would misspell his name. Secondly, I can't fathom a rational adult choosing to dress like Snoop Dogg unless they wanted to emulate particular illegal activities that he happens to embrace. Snoop Dogg is an artist who has developed a following because of his own outlandish behavior. So, you are saying that you'd like to be a Black pimp? Or, perhaps a Black drug dealer? Or, a Black gangsta rapper? Hmm... they seem to be stereotypes to me, and he has openly embraced these stereotypes for his own economic end. Frankly, most people who think Snoop is the greatest thing since pre-sliced bread tend to not be Black.

There is a difference between intent and impact. It may have been that your intent was innocent but it does not mean that it did not offend or harm another person. I mention the minstrel show because this is the primary reason that Blackface is a taboo art form in the US; we have had centuries of racially oppressing Black folk.

So, this may be a cultural difference that I won't dismiss, and you should not dismiss either, but if an Englishman dressed up as a drunken Irishman for Halloween, would it be offensive or not?

pickarooney · 30-10-2011 10:27PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Yep, I think it is mockery, my new best friend forever. First, if Snoop Dogg was your favorite artist, I would highly doubt that you would misspell his name. Secondly, I can't fathom a rational adult choosing to dress like Snoop Dogg unless they wanted to emulate particular illegal activities that he happens to embrace. Snoop Dogg is an artist who has developed a following because of his own outlandish behavior. So, you are saying that you'd like to be a Black pimp? Or, perhaps a Black drug dealer? Or, a Black gangsta rapper? Hmm... they seem to be stereotypes to me, and he has openly embraced these stereotypes for his own economic end. Frankly, most people who think Snoop is the greatest thing since pre-sliced bread tend to not be Black.

There is a difference between intent and impact. It may have been that your intent was innocent but it does not mean that it did not offend or harm another person. I mention the minstrel show because this is the primary reason that Blackface is a taboo art form in the US; we have had centuries of racially oppressing Black folk.

So, this may be a cultural difference that I won't dismiss, and you should not dismiss either, but if an Englishman dressed up as a drunken Irishman for Halloween, would it be offensive or not?

You're either too obtuse to grasp the fundamental difference between dressing up as a person who has black skin and dressing up as a stereotype for the purpose of mockery... or you're just ****ing with us.

mikemac · 30-10-2011 10:30PM

Yep, those Minstrel shows were incredibly racist

Lyons Tea turned generations of Irish people into racists

OutlawPete · 30-10-2011 10:31PM

Yes and so are car batteries as it is has black down as being a minus and when playing pool, does every colour really have to dominated and controlled by the 'white' ball. Angels have to wear white, witches black. White for wedding, black for a funeral. Then there's blackmail, blackballed, black market, black magic, black listed, black sheep etc etc - wake up people!

We're told that God said in John 3:17: "I say unto you, you are what you are!"

Course, I heard that the truth was that what God really said was: ""I say unto you, you is what you is!"

pacquiao · 30-10-2011 10:33PM

RichieC wrote: »

I'm being told on another forum it is. A mate dressed up as a hilarious Mr T and according to the sickeningly liberal American forumites my mate is basically Hitler!

what say you!

eta mr t outfit

The very fact that you have to ask such a question makes me cringe and proves people really are afraid of being individuals.

phasers · 30-10-2011 10:33PM

I dressed as Obama a couple of years ago and my black friends thought it was cool.

I think as long as you're not doing the golliwog thing then you're grand

Killer Wench · 30-10-2011 10:37PM

pickarooney wrote: »

You're either too obtuse to grasp the fundamental difference between dressing up as a person who has black skin and dressing up as a stereotype for the purpose of mockery... or you're just ****ing with us.

The OP asked whether it was racist to "blacken up" for Halloween and from this Black person's experience and perspective, hell yes it is. Now, I also have a different cultural and historical context than most members on this board. I grew up in the Black American community, have been the subject of Black jokes, and I have been in the uncomfortable situation where a White person has dressed up as someone liked me, but their only cultural context has been what they have seen on the television. If what you only know about Black folk is what you have observed through music and television, than your good hearted intentions will have a negative impact because it is based upon a) ignorance and b) arrogance.

Do not be insulting or condescending because you fail to understand where I am coming from or because you refuse to want to look at your actions and see how they may have a negative impact in spite of your best intentions. You want to have a productive dialogue, then keep this **** civil.

take everything · 30-10-2011 10:42PM

phasers wrote: »

I dressed as Obama a couple of years ago and my black friends thought it was cool.

Why.
There's nothing scary about Obama.
Going as OJ (the year of his trial), for example, would be more apt for Halloween.

pickarooney · 30-10-2011 10:51PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

The OP asked whether it was racist to "blacken up" for Halloween and from this Black person's experience and perspective, hell yes it is. Now, I also have a different cultural and historical context than most members on this board. I grew up in the Black American community, have been the subject of Black jokes, and I have been in the uncomfortable situation where a White person has dressed up as someone liked me, but their only cultural context has been what they have seen on the television. If what you only know about Black folk is what you have observed through music and television, than your good hearted intentions will have a negative impact because it is based upon a) ignorance and b) arrogance.

Do not be insulting or condescending because you fail to understand where I am coming from or because you refuse to want to look at your actions and see how they may have a negative impact in spite of your best intentions. You want to have a productive dialogue, then keep this **** civil.

The OP asked about dressing as Mr. T; you built the tar-baby straw-man and lit it. People who seek out opportunities to get offended on behalf of others do nothing to promote racial harmony.

enfant terrible · 30-10-2011 10:55PM

What's wrong with being racy?

Cianos · 30-10-2011 10:55PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

The OP asked whether it was racist to "blacken up" for Halloween and from this Black person's experience and perspective, hell yes it is. Now, I also have a different cultural and historical context than most members on this board. I grew up in the Black American community, have been the subject of Black jokes, and I have been in the uncomfortable situation where a White person has dressed up as someone liked me, but their only cultural context has been what they have seen on the television. If what you only know about Black folk is what you have observed through music and television, than your good hearted intentions will have a negative impact because it is based upon a) ignorance and b) arrogance.

Do not be insulting or condescending because you fail to understand where I am coming from or because you refuse to want to look at your actions and see how they may have a negative impact in spite of your best intentions. You want to have a productive dialogue, then keep this **** civil.

Is it racist for a black person to dress up as a white person, and why/why not?

MyKeyG · 30-10-2011 11:01PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Yep, I think it is mockery, my new best friend forever. First, if Snoop Dogg was your favorite artist, I would highly doubt that you would misspell his name. Secondly, I can't fathom a rational adult choosing to dress like Snoop Dogg unless they wanted to emulate particular illegal activities that he happens to embrace. Snoop Dogg is an artist who has developed a following because of his own outlandish behavior. So, you are saying that you'd like to be a Black pimp? Or, perhaps a Black drug dealer? Or, a Black gangsta rapper?

The word obtuse has been used to describe you already and I think it's very apt! I was using him as an example to describe the difference between dressing up as a character and intentionally trying to offend a race FFS:rolleyes:

There is a difference between intent and impact. It may have been that your intent was innocent but it does not mean that it did not offend or harm another person.

Taking offence in an otherwise innocent act has more to do with you I think than the person responsible for the alleged offence.

For example I could claim your Boards id uses a very sexist expression used to degrade women but I realise I have no idea why you chose it therefore I don't judge!

So, this may be a cultural difference that I won't dismiss, and you should not dismiss either, but if an Englishman dressed up as a drunken Irishman for Halloween, would it be offensive or not?

Honest answer, and I hope it explains my point. For me there's a great difference between having fun and making fun. If an English person dressed up as a drunken Irish eejit I would like to think I had the good grace, maturity and sense to appreciate the comedy since I know that not all Irish are drunks as often portrayed no more than blacks are any of the characterisations you've said have been used to describe them.

The only person linking dressing up as any given black character to oppression and stereotype is you.

Don't you agree there's enough racism in the world without looking for it in every nook and cranny?

crazygeryy · 30-10-2011 11:04PM

If it is racist it's pc gone absolutely mad.

Logical Fallacy · 30-10-2011 11:14PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Black Hitler would be a good costume.

Blitler.

phasers · 30-10-2011 11:14PM

take everything wrote: »

Why.
There's nothing scary about Obama.
Going as OJ (the year of his trial), for example, would be more apt for Halloween.

There's nothing scary about a slutty cat either but I don't hear men bitching then.

RichieC · 30-10-2011 11:15PM

Perhaps my thread title wasn't clear enough.

Apologies. I did not mean to black up as in minstrels or other negative racial stereotypes.

take everything · 30-10-2011 11:28PM

phasers wrote: »

There's nothing scary about a slutty cat either but I don't hear men bitching then.

Who's bitching.
I'm just talking about aptness to Halloween.

kumate_champ07 · 30-10-2011 11:35PM

ball wrote: »

There's an Asian guy that dresses up as a leprechaun in Temple Bar and on Grafton St. That's not racist is it?

as far as I know no leprechauns have put in a complaint so it must be ok

tfitzgerald · 30-10-2011 11:41PM

Dressing up as mr t is not racist if anything it's a complement to him. Now if you went with a bone thru your nose carrying a spear dressed in a bit of fur I can see where people might have a problem

4zn76tysfajdxp · 30-10-2011 11:47PM

phasers wrote: »

There's nothing scary about a slutty cat either but I don't hear men bitching then.

So long as you're not racistly going as a black cat I don't care.

skregs · 30-10-2011 11:50PM

Dressing up as a stereotypical black man is racist. Like blacking up, drawing on a pair of big fat lips and walking around with a watermelon and a bucket of KFC is racist.

Dressing up as a person who is black is not racist, or dressing up like a specific subculture (rapper/old jazz singer etc).

Victor · 31-10-2011 12:24AM

I agree with skregs. It is one thing to exploit and abuse a negative stereotype, but another to endorse a positive roll model. Both Mr. T and Obama are positive roll models, perhaps Cosby also, but less obvious. I suspect Snoop Dogg is a negative one. However, this raises the question as to why we discuss so few black role models.

Facetiously, what of the people who dress up as Smurfs or Umpa Loompas?

Badgermonkey · 31-10-2011 12:32AM

Killer Wench wrote: »

So, this may be a cultural difference that I won't dismiss, and you should not dismiss either, but if an Englishman dressed up as a drunken Irishman for Halloween, would it be offensive or not?

If the person dressed as Shane McGowan or Brendan Behan for instance, then no.

If a black man wishes to masquerade as the Pogues lead singer for Halloween, then bad teeth, slurred speech and a pasty pallor (white face paint) would help in carrying it off successfully. To attend a party as Mr.T would require a similar change of skin tone and an adherence to behaviours and catchphrases associated with that characters persona. Were someone to dress as a generic black man and act out an ill-judged series of traits and characteristics which they believe captures the essence of an entire race, that would be cause for taking exception.

As an aside, it's interesting to note nowhere have the Irish as a nation been more branded, packaged and sold as ginger-mystic, boozin' and brawlin' folk, with a glint in the eye, jaysus and begorrah etc than in the United States.

phasers · 31-10-2011 12:54AM

Leilani Salty Oak wrote: »

So long as you're not racistly going as a black cat I don't care.

One of those freaky bald cats seems the logical choice.

RichieC · 31-10-2011 12:58AM

pacquiao wrote: »

The very fact that you have to ask such a question makes me cringe and proves people really are afraid of being individuals.

I was asking for opinions on the topic, I already thought it wasn't racist prior to my posting this thread.

seems to be a pretty unanimous "no" on Boards, on the American site they started digging up things I said about Israel and travellers in the past to prove I was just a racist..pretty crazy difference all in all.

Is blacking up for Halloween Racist?

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