Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Amazotheamazing · 30-10-2011 10:35PM

ormond lad wrote: »

I wouldnt be surprised if it does at pro level
The A schools always take a few youths who are in and around the youths squad. 2 or 3 from the east munster 17s that comprehensively won their 3 regional games last feb couldnt go forward to munster youths in the summer as rockwell had "signed" them up after watching them in the games

But are they better off in Rockwell or Munchins?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 30-10-2011 10:57PM

My main concern about Con is that there are so many young contracted players that can't play because of the limits on provincially contracted players

Archer
Fogs
Ryan
O'Driscoll
Deasy
Dineen
Gleeson
Holland
Darragh Hurley
Denis Hurley
Leamy
Nagle
O'Callaghan
O'Gara
O'Mahony
Scanlon
Williams
Zebo

Of those Scanlon, Williams, Zebo, Nagle, Holland, Gleeson, Dineen, and Deasy, are not guaranteed gametime at Munster and should be playing a lot in the AIL. Only two of them can play in any game. (Well three cause I think Scanlon is only on a development deal.

profitius · 30-10-2011 11:12PM

Theres always politics involved in sport. You can be sure some players will get special treatment depending on where they're from and who they know.

Maybe Munster need to hold more trial games for players who might have been overlooked earlier in their careers.

Amazotheamazing · 30-10-2011 11:28PM

profitius wrote: »

Theres always politics involved in sport. You can be sure some players will get special treatment depending on where they're from and who they know.

Maybe Munster need to hold more trial games for players who might have been overlooked earlier in their careers.

I think Munster need to bring in a proper scouting system and limit the powers of schools to cup-tie players. There's a jobs for the boys culture in Munster that doesn't help matters.

Risteard · 30-10-2011 11:32PM

WRT props, it's been said numerous times by numerous posters on this site but our problem seems to be that we pick 'athletes' and try to teach them to scrummage rather than get scrummagers and get them up to scrath on fitness.

Now, I have never seen Cotter play save for the Con semi final last year where he was part of a front row that demolished a Con FR with 2 contracted players in it. But the reports I've been reading suggest that YM have one of the better scrums in the AIL. Why therefore has he not been given a chance ahead of an aging Hayes?

OL also makes a good point about the players from Garryowen,Shannon, Con etc. You can bet your arse Leinster couldn't give a fiddlers what club a player played for, if they're good enough they'll more than likely get a shot. Felix Jones as far as I'm aware was playing Junior rugby for Seapoint and didn't go to a big rugby school, didn't stop him getting into the Leinster academy.

It's really frustrating from my point of view to have NIQs in the same old positions every time and having 2 NIQs taking up props, centres etc. It suggests that problems aren't being addressed. You might hear the argument that there aren't any players there, but that doesn't wash tbh. Why are Leinster, Ulster, Connacht to lesser extent able to produce centres that are capable of playing ML level at least and we not? It's not like they're a different race with different physical characteristics, it points to problems in the system and unless they are sorted out we'll be left behind quickly.

Amazotheamazing · 31-10-2011 12:31AM

Risteard wrote: »

WRT props, it's been said numerous times by numerous posters on this site but our problem seems to be that we pick 'athletes' and try to teach them to scrummage rather than get scrummagers and get them up to scrath on fitness.

Now, I have never seen Cotter play save for the Con semi final last year where he was part of a front row that demolished a Con FR with 2 contracted players in it. But the reports I've been reading suggest that YM have one of the better scrums in the AIL. Why therefore has he not been given a chance ahead of an aging Hayes?

OL also makes a good point about the players from Garryowen,Shannon, Con etc. You can bet your arse Leinster couldn't give a fiddlers what club a player played for, if they're good enough they'll more than likely get a shot. Felix Jones as far as I'm aware was playing Junior rugby for Seapoint and didn't go to a big rugby school, didn't stop him getting into the Leinster academy.

It's really frustrating from my point of view to have NIQs in the same old positions every time and having 2 NIQs taking up props, centres etc. It suggests that problems aren't being addressed. You might hear the argument that there aren't any players there, but that doesn't wash tbh. Why are Leinster, Ulster, Connacht to lesser extent able to produce centres that are capable of playing ML level at least and we not? It's not like they're a different race with different physical characteristics, it points to problems in the system and unless they are sorted out we'll be left behind quickly.

The lack of props is somewhat fictional though, Ulster and Leinster both have Munster props that Munster didn't want. I see guys like Cotter falling into the same situation. I really hope Botha can change the culture.

Centres, and backs in general, comes down to how the schools play. We've a lot of scrumhalves because we play ten man rugby, I just don't know what's happened all the Limerick backrowers.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 31-10-2011 12:36AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Centres, and backs in general, comes down to how the schools play. We've a lot of scrumhalves because we play ten man rugby

Whats the name of that English chap that played 9 in schools and underage but plays on the wing now. Usefull to have that in the team means you have less of a chance of Best POC DOC and other idiots filling in at 9 when someone is under a ruck

Convert them well some of them anyway could be converted

CatFromHue · 31-10-2011 01:06AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Whats the name of that English chap that played 9 in schools and underage but plays on the wing now. Usefull to have that in the team means you have less of a chance of Best POC DOC and other idiots filling in at 9 when someone is under a ruck

Convert them well some of them anyway could be converted

I'm not sure of the English guy but Derek Hougaard of SA plays both wing and scrum half, and yeah it is a very handy thing to have in a team.

Amazotheamazing · 31-10-2011 02:25AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure of the English guy but Derek Hougaard of SA plays both wing and scrum half, and yeah it is a very handy thing to have in a team.

All more the reason to try to TOL there. Murray is the future.

castie · 31-10-2011 02:46AM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

All more the reason to try to TOL there. Murray is the future.

TOL's first few starts for munster were on the wing if I remember correctly.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 31-10-2011 03:12AM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Whats the name of that English chap that played 9 in schools and underage but plays on the wing now.

Wasn't a winger. A fullback ie Foden

At underage or schools levels the lads on the team with the best skill set often play a 9 or 10 (according to some the most important positions) even if they would be better at another position. It has the benefit of developing a level of skill in the players. Problem is that its often not their best position.

Amazotheamazing · 31-10-2011 03:19AM

castie wrote: »

TOL's first few starts for munster were on the wing if I remember correctly.

Yep, and he's fairly fast. Mind you, it's hard to know how fast any of our backs are, with Holland coaching.

thomond2006 · 31-10-2011 03:29PM

Other than the well documented cases, Munster coach Tony McGahan will be dealing from a full deck when he sits down to select his side for the RaboDirect PRO12 clash with Leinster in Dublin on Friday night.

Tomas O'Leary and Peter O'Mahony were both forced to retire in Friday's game against Aironi, but both will train tomorrow and will be in consideration when McGahan decides on his squad for Friday's game. O'Mahony's was a blood injury whilst O'Leary shipped a heavy tackle and considering the type of schedule facing Munster, management took the prudent step of replacing him immediately.

Meanwhile, Jerry Flannery had a positive diagnosis following his trip to see a specialist in Germany last week although as yet there is no definite timeframe for a return to full training. David Wallace, Felix Jones, Mike Sherry, Peter Borlase & Troy Smith are the others who remain unavailable through injury.

Next Friday's game will be just the second of Munster's season for many of the players including Paul O'Connell, who looked particularly sharp on Friday night. " I enjoyed the game, " he said after training this morning. "Or scrum was excellent against Aironi. On nights like that a strong scrum is of massive importance."

"All things considered I think it was a good performance," he continued." We really need to start building relationships with each other again, and getting used to playing with each other.

"I've rarely if every played with Peter (O'Mahony), obviously never played with BJ. That was Will's (Chambers) first game with the senior side. First time Danny Barnes played at inside centre. There are a lot of combinations there that are new.

"So we really need to get to know each other quickly. To get all the guys off the bench and finish the game in their half pummeling them was good for us."

And looking forward to the Leinster game ? "Its probably the highest level you can go in Europe at the moment. Leinster, with their record, with the playing squad they have, It's going to be a massive step up for us and again the following week against Northampton.

So it's really good preparation for us but we really need to learn fast and hit the ground running next weekend."

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/9614.php

Amazotheamazing · 31-10-2011 07:29PM

Will be interesting to see who starts next week. For me the Saints game is far more important so I'd be going with Horan, Varley, Archer, Ryan, POC, Leamy, POM, Coughlan, Murray, O'Gara, Zebo, Chambers, Barnes, Howlett, Earls.

Fireball07 · 31-10-2011 07:49PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Will be interesting to see who starts next week. For me the Saints game is far more important so I'd be going with Horan, Varley, Archer, Ryan, POC, Leamy, POM, Coughlan, Murray, O'Gara, Zebo, Chambers, Barnes, Howlett, Earls.

It is more important, really. But it'd still be nice to win it...

Resting Botha for the Leinster game could be huge though, their scrum is very strong and I don't know if Archer is up to it. And while I'd like to see Zebo get some gametime, I don't think he will because if he wasn't in the squad for Aironi, I can't see him being included V Leinster.

thomond2006 · 31-10-2011 08:11PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Will be interesting to see who starts next week. For me the Saints game is far more important so I'd be going with Horan, Varley, Archer, Ryan, POC, Leamy, POM, Coughlan, Murray, O'Gara, Zebo, Chambers, Barnes, Howlett, Earls.

I think the firsts need another run together tbh. I wouldn't mind Earls being tried at fullback though, Murphy is decent but doesn't carry the same attacking threat. We need someone like Earls on the ball as much as possible and running lines off Chambers who has a creative touch about him.

du Preez, Varley, Botha, Ryan, Paulie, Leamy, Wallace 2.0, Cawlin;
Murray, O'Gara, Murphy, Barnes, Chambers, Dougie, Earls

Bench: Fogarty, Horan, Archer, Donners, Ronan, Strings, Keatley, Zebo

Fireball07 · 31-10-2011 10:34PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I think the firsts need another run together tbh. I wouldn't mind Earls being tried at fullback though, Murphy is decent but doesn't carry the same attacking threat. We need someone like Earls on the ball as much as possible and running lines off Chambers who has a creative touch about him.

du Preez, Varley, Botha, Ryan, Paulie, Leamy, Wallace 2.0, Cawlin;
Murray, O'Gara, Murphy, Barnes, Chambers, Dougie, Earls

Bench: Fogarty, Horan, Archer, Donners, Ronan, Strings, Keatley, Zebo

POM is Wallace2.0?

He definitely reminds me more of Quinlan than Wallace though.

I wouldn't mind trying Keatley at full-back...not in this game, obviously but I think he could be decent there. He's good enough with ball in hand and he might be a better counter-attacking option than Murphy.

thomond2006 · 01-11-2011 03:03PM

I was watching a Munster training session today. They were playing a practice game with George Clancy as a ref, first teamers vs seconds. Hayes was with the firsts, Archer was in a bib with all the academy/dev contract players. Strings was also with the seconds.

There was a seperate first team backs session afterwards where the backline was:

Murray, ROG, Earls, Mafi, Chambers, Howlett, Murphy

with TOL, Keatley and Barnes watching on from the sidelines.

budhabob · 01-11-2011 04:00PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I was watching a Munster training session today. They were playing a practice game with George Clancy as a ref, first teamers vs seconds. Hayes was with the firsts, Archer was in a bib with all the academy/dev contract players. Strings was also with the seconds.

There was a seperate first team backs session afterwards where the backline was:

Murray, ROG, Earls, Mafi, Chambers, Howlett, Murphy
with TOL, Keatley and Barnes watching on from the sidelines.

Thats the backline so.

Was Botha not in the firsts?

thomond2006 · 01-11-2011 04:11PM

budhabob wrote: »

Thats the backline so.

Was Botha not in the firsts?

Sorry I should have been clearer. The firsts refers to the first choice 23. Botha and Hayes were both in that group as was du Preez and Horan. Hayes would play a few minutes, then Botha would come on for him and vice versa. Paulie wasn't there at all because he was in Dublin for a Heineken Cup promotion along with Tony McGahan (see munster site)

David Wallace was at the session watching, no crutches or bandage. Felix was there too.

totallegend · 01-11-2011 04:38PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sorry I should have been clearer. The firsts refers to the first choice 23. Botha and Hayes were both in that group as was du Preez and Horan. Hayes would play a few minutes, then Botha would come on for him and vice versa. Paulie wasn't there at all because he was in Dublin for a Heineken Cup promotion along with Tony McGahan (see munster site)

David Wallace was at the session watching, no crutches or bandage. Felix was there too.

So are we looking at those four to be the props on Friday and, presumably, in the Heineken Cup? Two South Africans and two Irish guys aged 34 and 38?

thomond2006 · 01-11-2011 04:39PM

totallegend wrote: »

So are we looking at those four to be the props on Friday and, presumably, in the Heineken Cup? Two South Africans and two Irish guys aged 34 and 38?

Yup. It's fairly depressing isn't it? Thank the lord that Botha looks like a good buy at the moment *touchwood*.

profitius · 01-11-2011 04:44PM

totallegend wrote: »

So are we looking at those four to be the props on Friday and, presumably, in the Heineken Cup? Two South Africans and two Irish guys aged 34 and 38?

It shows that they really have not got a clue what they're doing regarding props. I can't understand why Alan Cotter has not been tried out a few times.

Flincher · 01-11-2011 07:46PM

Just saw this on Johne Murphy's twitter, mycharity.ie/event/munstermos

Seems the squad are doing Movember for the Blue September Charity. Hope Dougie goes for the Fu Manchu

Amazotheamazing · 01-11-2011 08:44PM

profitius wrote: »

It shows that they really have not got a clue what they're doing regarding props. I can't understand why Alan Cotter has not been tried out a few times.

How often have you seen him play?

profitius · 01-11-2011 09:18PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

How often have you seen him play?

I saw him destroy Cork Cons scrum last season. Con had 2 Munster players playing.

Maybe they want to improve other parts of his game but they signed WDP....

Amazotheamazing · 01-11-2011 09:39PM

profitius wrote: »

I saw him destroy Cork Cons scrum last season. Con had 2 Munster players playing.

Maybe they want to improve other parts of his game but they signed WDP....

I haven't seen enough of him to know eitherway but it'd be wrong to make him into some sort of cause celebre on the back of that game. I know the Munsters team generally skull-****s the opposition in the scrum but at what standard?

It'll be interesting to see if he or Ryan starts in the B and I Cup.

Flincher · 01-11-2011 09:45PM

I've very rarely seen that Young Munster pack under pressure at the scrum. More often than not they have the dominant set piece, and that was even the case at the weekend when they were missing Slattery to a red card (Feckin touch judge missed the Shannon man who started it!).

I don't see how Munster would have lost out by having Cotter in the bench a couple of times this year. I'll try and keep faith in the judgment of the experts, but it must be frustrating when the props that YM front row would eat for breakfast seem to be getting the breaks.

Amazotheamazing · 01-11-2011 09:54PM

Flincher wrote: »

I've very rarely seen that Young Munster pack under pressure at the scrum. More often than not they have the dominant set piece, and that was even the case at the weekend when they were missing Slattery to a red card (Feckin touch judge missed the Shannon man who started it!).

I don't see how Munster would have lost out by having Cotter in the bench a couple of times this year. I'll try and keep faith in the judgment of the experts, but it must be frustrating when the props that YM front row would eat for breakfast seem to be getting the breaks.

Age old story for Young Munster, how did Burke and Kelleher go in the centres, two players I'd have ahead of Deasy and Gleeson.

phog · 01-11-2011 10:03PM

Flincher wrote: »

I've very rarely seen that Young Munster pack under pressure at the scrum. More often than not they have the dominant set piece, and that was even the case at the weekend when they were missing Slattery to a red card (Feckin touch judge missed the Shannon man who started it!).

I don't see how Munster would have lost out by having Cotter in the bench a couple of times this year. I'll try and keep faith in the judgment of the experts, but it must be frustrating when the props that YM front row would eat for breakfast seem to be getting the breaks.

I've no idea how good or bad Cotter is but I' imagine if he's as good as some say he is POC would surely be whispering in someones ears, wouldnt he? would he?

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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