homeopathy/alternative medicine in pharmacies

Compak · 18-10-2011 08:49AM

skregs wrote: »

1: Add 1% Homeopathic mix of water to 99% dilutution of water.
2: Water gains the power of water, homeopathically, creating double water.
3: Repeat step 1 repatedly using double water mix to create super water.
4: One glass of super water is enough to irrigate an entire farm in Africa.
5: Economy is saved.

SCIENCE!

Nope, like cures like ie like cancels out like in homeopathy. Thus homeopathic water cancels out normal water. Thus you've created a drought.

Thus you evil b@stard have just destroyed the world we live in. And all because you were too ignorant to believe in homeopathic power!!!!!

The 'H-bomb', is that placebo too?????? I think its obvious the 'H' stands for homeopathic ...........;)

Akrasia · 18-10-2011 09:10AM

mellowdrama wrote: »

Gosh this thread really has it in for pharmacists today.

Just so you know, we tend to supply what the public demands. It's mostly harmless and makes for good business, as the customer is usually adamant they know what's best and are happy to pay for it, and the pharmacist gets money

However, any worthwhile pharmacist would tell you if asked that there is no evidence for homoeopathic remedies beyond the placebo effect. If the treatments actually worked, they would no longer be 'alternative' would they?

Ok, I'll take that as a challenge. This weekend I'm going to go to a few pharmacies in Ennis and pick up a box of nelsons teetha and ask the counter staff if it is effective.

We'll see how many pharmacies talk themselves out of a sale

Akrasia · 18-10-2011 09:13AM

ebixa82 wrote: »

I'm a pharmacist and we don't sell any homeopathic products at all. Some do, others don't.

As a concerned consumer simply don't go into the ones that sell them if it hurts you so much.

/Thread closed

If you're trading ethically then this thread isn't about you. i applaud your integrity.

ebixa82 · 18-10-2011 09:18AM

Akrasia wrote: »

Ok, I'll take that as a challenge. This weekend I'm going to go to a few pharmacies in Ennis and pick up a box of nelsons teetha and ask the counter staff if it is effective.

We'll see how many pharmacies talk themselves out of a sale

Dear God, you must really have a sad existence if that's how you plan to spend your weekend!:eek:

Anyways, to answer your question if you would ask me I would say "It's a homeopathic product so nobody knows how it works but it is very popular amongst mothers with teething babies".

Then you can think about it for a while, buy it, or fcuk off out of the shop and annoy someone else! I won't give too fcuks either way..

nozzferrahhtoo · 18-10-2011 09:29AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

What I find hilarious is that the 'remedy' is diluted so much that there is a greater than 99% chance that the pill is nothing but water

Actually even the figure of 99% does not do the comedy justice. Some dilutions used in homeopathy are so dilute that a mathematician friend of James Randi worked out that to reach any level of certainty that there is an atom of the original “active ingredient” left in the water you would require a spherical body of water the size and diameter of our solar system.

noxqs wrote: »

That's the entire point of homeopathy. The less there is the more effective.

I wish that were the "entire point". If only the comedy stopped with the dilution however. Alas the main "point" is worse than that again.

The base idea of homeopathy is not dilution but that if you want to cure something you administer something that causes similar symptoms. So if you have a rash I should rub you with nettles for example.

Homeopathy is worse than simple quackery. It is a cynical case of con and exploitation.

Sofaspud wrote: »

The whole philosphy of homeopathy is based on the dilution of whatever substance is the cause of the problem

Almost correct. You know more than most on the subject. However to be pedantic it is the dilution of whatever causes similar symptoms as the problem. So if you wanted to cure lead poisoning for example you would not prescribe diluted lead per se (though I imagine it is an option, not 100% sure).... but diluted something else which also happens to cause similar symptoms to lead poisoning.

fontanalis wrote: »

Going by their logic all you have ot do is throw an aspirin (or probably one thousandth of an aspirin) into a reservoir and anyone who drinks form teh supply will have their sore head cured.

Not entirely. They have an excuse for why that does not work. They have a process that "must" be performed in order for the dilution to "work". It is what they call "succussion".

Basically after putting the active ingredient into the water the water must then be shaken back and forth 10 time (dont ask me, no idea why 10) in all three planes sequentially. So you would have to take your reservoir above and shake it left to right 10 times. Forward and backward 10 times. Then up and down 10 times.

Only then will the "magic" work. However it is clear that the dilution process was only created because the guy who "invented" homeopathy was killing more patients than he was curing and so the dilution process protected him while adding another level of "woo" to the procedure.

However as pointed out above it would be something that causes headaches, not cures them, that you would throw into your reservoir.

For example the homeopathy pills for helping you sleep are based on caffeine. The idea being caffeine causes wakefullness and since that is what you want to cure you administer caffeine.

Don't look at me, this is their idea not mine

Heartening however is that threads on this subject a couple of years ago would have had quite a number of people defending homeopathy. Thus far there appears to be few to none. Progress of a sort.

Akrasia wrote: »

We'll see how many pharmacies talk themselves out of a sale

Would be very interested to hear the results of this. Offering the products is one thing... a bad thing but defensible on some levels. Actually talking up the product when asked for medical advice however is another and I would be curious to see how many of your results do so.

Compak · 18-10-2011 09:40AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Would be very interested to hear the results of this. Offering the products is one thing... a bad thing but defensible on some levels. Actually talking up the product when asked for medical advice however is another and I would be curious to see how many of your results do so.

I'd actually disagree here. When it comes to infant care really there's very little that works/recommended. Just a few weeks ago we got told cold remedies have no effect in young children.

It seems now the only thing effective is placebo. How can placebo work in children when they are so young to not even know its a medicine? Exactly. It's the parent's confidence in the product and comfort from application that seemingly the child picks up upon. Thus the only thing that might work is a placebo the parent believes in also.

What else is the alternative for teething, remembering they all use calpol etc anyway?

Thus though I condemn homeopathy, teetha is fine under the sales guise of, 'its not actually a medicine but an awful lot of parents swear by it, saying it brought dramatic relief to their children.' Which is true. In certain cases ignorance is bliss. We just want our children feeling better

Akrasia · 18-10-2011 09:40AM

ebixa82 wrote: »

Dear God, you must really have a sad existence if that's how you plan to spend your weekend!:eek:

Anyways, to answer your question if you would ask me I would say "It's a homeopathic product so nobody knows how it works but it is very popular amongst mothers with teething babies".

Then you can think about it for a while, buy it, or fcuk off out of the shop and annoy someone else! I won't give too fcuks either way..

'Nobody knows how it works?'

Hold on a minute, is that your professional opinion?

Or are you just framing your response so that you are not committing to promoting the product, but also not costing yourself a sale.

Anyone who has studied pharmacology ought to know that Homeopathy doesn't have any effect beyond placebo. Stating that 'nobody knows how it works' implies that it does work and is extremely misleading to someone who has not looked into what homeopathy actually is (ie, the vast majority of people, including many of those who use homeopathy regularly)

ebixa82 · 18-10-2011 09:47AM

Akrasia wrote: »

'Nobody knows how it works?'

Hold on a minute, is that your professional opinion?

Or are you just framing your response so that you are not committing to promoting the product, but also not costing yourself a sale.

Anyone who has studied pharmacology ought to know that Homeopathy doesn't have any effect beyond placebo. Stating that 'nobody knows how it works' implies that it does work and is extremely misleading to someone who has not looked into what homeopathy actually is (ie, the vast majority of people, including many of those who use homeopathy regularly)

This one.

Look loads of ugly women come in buying fake tan and make up.
They buy it thinking that it makes them more attractive.
But it doesn't. It doesn't actually work!
But they still buy it, and pharmacies continue to sell it as a result.
Same for homeopathy!!

Akrasia · 18-10-2011 09:52AM

Compak wrote: »

I'd actually disagree here. When it comes to infant care really there's very little that works/recommended. Just a few weeks ago we got told cold remedies have no effect in young children.

There is no cure for the common cold. Cough drops and cold medicine do not reduce the effects or duration of the common cold other than to dull the pain (most adult cold medicines contain pain killers)
For childrens cough medicine, they are almost all completely useless as the only useful ingredients for reducing the symptoms of cold are not allowed in childrens medicine
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cold-remedies/ID00036

It seems now the only thing effective is placebo. How can placebo work in children when they are so young to not even know its a medicine?

Placebo works extremely well on children. Mommy can kiss the pain away most of the time. Distracting the child from the pain or unpleasentness of illness is effective on most minor ailments. (an icepop can cure most cuts and scrapes, a plaster can even make bruises feel better)

What else is the alternative for teething, remembering they all use calpol etc anyway?

Bonjella is a child safe local anesthetic that helps to reduce the pain, but teething is horrible for small children so they're going to be cranky regardless of what your give them (some children suffer more than others)

Thus though I condemn homeopathy, teetha is fine under the sales guise of, 'its not actually a medicine but an awful lot of parents swear by it, saying it brought dramatic relief to their children.' Which is true. In certain cases ignorance is bliss. We just want our children feeling better

If you read the box of teetha, it doesn't state anywhere that it's not a medicine, it makes claims that it can relieve the pain of teething.

It's only if you already know what homeopathy is that you would recognise that you have just been spectacularly ripped off (teetha is very expensive for what it is, dehydrated water (for the granules that don't do anything)

Compak · 18-10-2011 09:56AM

Akrasia wrote: »

There is no cure for the common cold. Cough drops and cold medicine do not reduce the effects or duration of the common cold other than to dull the pain (most adult cold medicines contain pain killers)
For childrens cough medicine, they are almost all completely useless as the only useful ingredients for reducing the symptoms of cold are not allowed in childrens medicine
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cold-remedies/ID00036

Placebo works extremely well on children. Mommy can kiss the pain away most of the time. Distracting the child from the pain or unpleasentness of illness is effective on most minor ailments. (an icepop can cure most cuts and scrapes, a plaster can even make bruises feel better)

Bonjella is a child safe local anesthetic that helps to reduce the pain, but teething is horrible for small children so they're going to be cranky regardless of what your give them (some children suffer more than others)

If you read the box of teetha, it doesn't state anywhere that it's not a medicine, it makes claims that it can relieve the pain of teething.

It's only if you already know what homeopathy is that you would recognise that you have just been spectacularly ripped off (teetha is very expensive for what it is, dehydrated water (for the granules that don't do anything)

You restate my whole point while missing my whole point

spdmrphy · 18-10-2011 09:57AM

Compak wrote: »

Not quite true, " it had a modest but consistent effect in reducing the duration and severity of common cold symptoms.

In five trials with participants exposed to short periods of extreme physical stress (including marathon runners and skiers) vitamin C halved the common cold risk." Cochrane review http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab000980.html

From the same source:

Authors' conclusions
The failure of vitamin C supplementation to reduce the incidence of colds in the general population indicates that routine prophylaxis is not justified.

artvanderlay · 18-10-2011 09:58AM

God, what a bunch of opinionated a**holes. Makes me sick. If you don't like homeopathy, then don't use it. Ignore it! Nobody is forcing you to take it. If people want to use it, let them. Did anyone ever hear of live and let live? Bunch of fascists. From the sounds of it, there are a lot of saddos walking around pharmacies getting into a rage about nothing. God, they sell contraception in their too you know...Grrrrr, it's terrible Father!

I have used some homeopathy in the past and it has usually worked for me, when other solutions didn't. Now whether that is due to coincidence or some kind of placebo effect, i honestly don't give a ****. I'm not a doctor but if something works then ding dang doo it'll do for me. I eat raw garlic every day and haven't had a cold in years - is there a medical basis for this? I don't know. I heard it might work, tried it and it did, so I'll stick with it. My point is try something before you take a hammer to it. If it doesn't work for you, fair enough but that doesn't mean it won't work for everyone. Let everyone make their own choices!

p.s. a glass of wark milk with turmeric, honey and some pepper is good for keeping the colds at bay as well. Got that one in India!

Compak · 18-10-2011 10:00AM

spdmrphy wrote: »

From the same source:

Authors' conclusions
The failure of vitamin C supplementation to reduce the incidence of colds in the general population indicates that routine prophylaxis is not justified.

prophylaxis is different to treatment, we dont take any 'treatment' routinely as prophlaxis. 'Gonna take some solpadeine now, think I could get aheadache tomorrow and want to stop it'

Compak · 18-10-2011 10:02AM

artvanderlay wrote: »

p.s. a glass of wark milk with turmeric, honey and some pepper is good for keeping the colds at bay as well. Got that one in India!

You know we cant actually absorb the active in turmeric....................quickly runs for the door......:)

Akrasia · 18-10-2011 10:05AM

artvanderlay wrote: »

I eat raw garlic every day and haven't had a cold in years - is there a medical basis for this? I don't know.

The cold is transmitted from person to person contact. You might be using garlic as an aroma therapy which helps to reduce your exposure to the cold virus

Compak · 18-10-2011 10:09AM

Akrasia wrote: »

The cold is transmitted from person to person contact. You might be using garlic as an aroma therapy which helps to reduce your exposure to the cold virus

What?? garlic has anti-viral and immuno-modulatory properties, the smell only turns people away not viruses

nozzferrahhtoo · 18-10-2011 10:10AM

Compak wrote: »

I'd actually disagree here. When it comes to infant care really there's very little that works/recommended.

That is one of the reasons why I differentiated between offering the product and actually talking up its efficacy.

When asking a pharmacist for medical advice one wants to be told what a product actually does and why he thinks that. It is not really up to them to lie to us on the off chance that the placebo effect might kick in. Not his call.

The placebo effect is not justification enough for outright lying to sell over priced water on the off chance it might work if the parent believes the lie. Especially given the placebo effect is often over rated and in fact what "cures" the patient is actually "return to the mean" effects.... or put simply... they would have gotten just as better, in just the same amount of time, without any "intervention".

Teething is your example and is actually a very good example of this. Teething is not a constant pain it seems but comes in waves and recedes in waves. You could "blame" placebo for why you give kids water pills and they get "better" but the fact is if they sat there and gave the kid nothing the kid may have recovered in the exact same period of time anyway because that is just what was going to happen.

Nothing to do with pills, lies, water or placebo at all except if you wanted to comically call it "retrospective placebo" where when the child gets better any way the parent can pretend to themselves they did something to help. Of course teething pain comes back, the parent gives the pill again, and teething pain naturally passes again. The parent of course then has their retrospective placebo confirmed in their mind.

In other words when you say "We just want our children feeling better" what you essentially say in the light of "return to the mean" is that "We just want to feel like our children feeling better has something to do with us, and that we did not essentially just sit there and wait it out but we felt proactive in the process".

"Return to the mean" is often misconstrued deliberately as "placebo" for the very goal of justifying lies and selling products that do nothing because they find it easier to act like "placebo" is a justifiable ends in itself.

Compak wrote: »

What else is the alternative for teething, remembering they all use calpol etc anyway?

Anything at all that numbs the gums is an alternative for teething and quite a few options are out there. To name but two random examples: Chewing on cold things for example such as teething rings containing gels from the fridge.

A second one is quite a few mothers recommend chewing on lemon which also has the effect of numbing gums (though some people worry about the effect of acid on the teeth as a side effect).

At the end of the day however teething is a natural part of life and as much as we might hate feeling helpless really the "cure" for it is to wait it out and be there and be understanding for your child as much as you can to help them through the process.

Akrasia · 18-10-2011 10:12AM

Compak wrote: »

What?? garlic has anti-viral and immuno-modulatory properties, the smell only turns people away not viruses

I was being facetious.
Garlic smell turns away people, people carry the virus, therefore, less exposure to people = less exposure to the virus

was just kidding

Compak · 18-10-2011 10:14AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

When asking a pharmacist for medical advice one wants to be told what a product actually does and why he thinks that. It is not really up to them to lie to us on the off chance that the placebo effect might kick in. Not his call.

'its not actually a medicine but an awful lot of parents swear by it, saying it brought dramatic relief to their children.'

No lie there, pharmacist has every right to say it

Ever hear of an 'ABT' prescription form a DR every right to prescribe it, and the dr can request also a patient is not informed of the drug name, and he also has every right to.

btw your two suggestions for teething are a disaster, have you got children? you give them ice to chew on ice or an acidic lemon and see if they appreciate it

PS placebo in children is more effective when parent is also a believer, they pick up on it

Compak · 18-10-2011 10:15AM

Akrasia wrote: »

I was being facetious.
Garlic smell turns away people, people carry the virus, therefore, less exposure to people = less exposure to the virus

was just kidding

Sorry, you see some ridiculous posts that sarcasm recognition becomes lost

nozzferrahhtoo · 18-10-2011 10:17AM

artvanderlay wrote: »

God, what a bunch of opinionated a**holes. Makes me sick. If you don't like homeopathy, then don't use it. Ignore it! Nobody is forcing you to take it.

A disappointing attitude. We as a society often work to work against con men and exploitation. Morally most of us are against exploitation. So it is not simply a case of "If you do not like it do not use it".

The fact is that people producing and promoting such products are engaged in exploitation. They are profiting from that part of us as humans that thinks "Well nothing else has worked so why not try this......" which many of us are susceptible to, especially when under duress of hard times.

Sellers of such products have recognised that people under the duress of illness are easy prey and they can bottle water at high prices and exploit their desperation to try anything rather that trying nothing.

Cons, lies, exploitation are things worth fighting against and a "If you do not like it do not use it" attitude really does not address that need. We also have laws on advertising where boards are MEANT to be out there forcing products off the shelves if they do not achieve what they claim to achieve. Homeopathy is clearly in violation of those regulations. Why should they get away with it when other products do not?

artvanderlay wrote: »

they sell contraception in their too you know...

What has that got to do with anything here? Contraception does what it claims to do, with the level of success/failure it claims to do it with. Homeopathy does not.

nozzferrahhtoo · 18-10-2011 10:18AM

Compak wrote: »

What?? garlic has anti-viral and immuno-modulatory properties, the smell only turns people away not viruses

I think that was his point

he was being sarcastic... suggesting that maybe the effect of keeping people at bay explains the apparent "cold fighting" effects of the "drug"

Monty Burnz · 18-10-2011 10:22AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

What I find hilarious is that the 'remedy' is diluted so much that there is a greater than 99% chance that the pill is nothing but water

Nope, it's a helluva lot less than that. It's something along the lines where you get to the point where there's only one single molecule of whatever the 'active ingredient is' and then you make it a million times more dilute again. Statistically speaking, there are more atoms from Julius Caeser's pubic hair in the mixture than 'active ingredient' by the time they are done.

nozzferrahhtoo · 18-10-2011 10:23AM

Compak wrote: »

'its not actually a medicine but an awful lot of parents swear by it, saying it brought dramatic relief to their children.'

No lie there, pharmacist has every right to say it

Indeed, that I would not disagree with. I am not talking about what "rights" he has at all. This simply is not the point I am making and if you want to go off on a tangent about his "rights" then you have left my point completely.

I am not talking about what right he has to say things. But a lie of omission is still a lie and I would hope.... not expect or suggest it has anything to do with "rights" but just "hope"..... that when I ask a pharmacist a question I would get an honest answer.

However I am directing my ire not just at people who say lines like you do above, but the people who actually do talk up its efficacy... outright lie in other words.... and as pointed out by other users on the thread many of the products do not say on the box "Can be used as a placebo against pain" but actually do claim to cure the pain.

Compak wrote: »

btw your two suggestions for teething are a disaster, have you got children? you give them ice to chew on ice or an acidic lemon and see if they appreciate it

I have indeed tried both of these things and I can report that my daughter in fact loves ice cubes and chewing on lemon slices. Anything that causes numbing during teething is a valid "treatment" for teething and cold items and lemon do have the effect of numbing the gum.

Of course, as I pointed out, one has to be aware of things like the effect of acid on teeth but I am discussing effects here, not side effects.

busyliving · 18-10-2011 10:26AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RstwLzikmvA

artvanderlay · 18-10-2011 10:31AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

A disappointing attitude. We as a society often work to work against con men and exploitation. Morally most of us are against exploitation. So it is not simply a case of "If you do not like it do not use it".

The fact is that people producing and promoting such products are engaged in exploitation. They are profiting from that part of us as humans that thinks "Well nothing else has worked so why not try this......" which many of us are susceptible to, especially when under duress of hard times.

Sellers of such products have recognised that people under the duress of illness are easy prey and they can bottle water at high prices and exploit their desperation to try anything rather that trying nothing.

Cons, lies, exploitation are things worth fighting against and a "If you do not like it do not use it" attitude really does not address that need. We also have laws on advertising where boards are MEANT to be out there forcing products off the shelves if they do not achieve what they claim to achieve. Homeopathy is clearly in violation of those regulations. Why should they get away with it when other products do not?

What has that got to do with anything here? Contraception does what it claims to do, with the level of success/failure it claims to do it with. Homeopathy does not.

Is it a con if someone willingly goes into a pharmacy or health store and chooses to buy something that is advertised in there of their own free will? God, shut all the shops, they are all conmen! Homeopathy has been around a while so it's not like it's some new fad that has just come out recently and needs the promotion. If ever I am interested in a homeopathic remedy, I have to go and find it, it's not waiting to pounce on my weakness. There are no apis dealers on my street corner. And in the past homeopathy has had the desired effect for me, so why should they take it off the shelves if it does work for me and possibly others?

Compak · 18-10-2011 10:31AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Indeed, that I would not disagree with. I am not talking about what "rights" he has at all. This simply is not the point I am making and if you want to go off on a tangent about his "rights" then you have left my point completely.

I am not talking about what right he has to say things. But a lie of omission is still a lie and I would hope.... not expect or suggest it has anything to do with "rights" but just "hope"..... that when I ask a pharmacist a question I would get an honest answer.

However I am directing my ire not just at people who say lines like you do above, but the people who actually do talk up its efficacy... outright lie in other words.... and as pointed out by other users on the thread many of the products do not say on the box "Can be used as a placebo against pain" but actually do claim to cure the pain.

I have indeed tried both of these things and I can report that my daughter in fact loves ice cubes and chewing on lemon slices. Anything that causes numbing during teething is a valid "treatment" for teething and cold items and lemon do have the effect of numbing the gum.

Of course, as I pointed out, one has to be aware of things like the effect of acid on teeth but I am discussing effects here, not side effects.

Fair enough and good points.

I think though people just realise its not a purposeful con by pharmacists. Firstly they get taught very little on homeopathy, why should they its not valid medicine.

Second all they see is people coming in proclaiming how great it is, and I mean parents by that.

Third, people come in and dont want home remedies, they want 'medicines'. Sometimes the parents need more comfort than the child

Fourth, I think its sick that Nelsons are the ones that cash in on this, I wonder if I could make my 'homeopathy'. Put sugar in bags, sell it and challenge anyone to prove its different to the brand homeopaths. Id then give the money to charity, that to me would be a win win and screw the real conmen.

Fifth, how many people slagging homeopathy then go to dr for an antibiotic for a cold. In the case of the better evil, an inert substance for say teething, no tru benefit and no risk. Or antibiotic for a cold, once again no true benefit but plenty of risk.

nozzferrahhtoo · 18-10-2011 10:36AM

artvanderlay wrote: »

Is it a con if someone willingly goes into a pharmacy or health store and chooses to buy something that is advertised in there of their own free will?

Not every time, but often yes it is. Taking my specific point and extrapolating it into a ridiculous generalization does not negate my point.

If a product does not even remotely do what it says it does (I am not talking about products that do not do things as well as they claim, but ones that do not even remotely do what they claim) then it SHOULD be help in violation of the regulations we have on such matters. Alas some products get away with it and homeopathy is one of them.

But it is worse than simply not doing what it claims. It is not doing what it claims in a context of people who are under such duress that they are often willing to try anything. It is very cynically offering products that do nothing to people they know are easy prey for exploitation and that is much worse than simply offering a product that does nothing. It is the height of exploitation and manipulation.

artvanderlay · 18-10-2011 10:42AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Not every time, but often yes it is. Taking my specific point and extrapolating it into a ridiculous generalization does not negate my point.

If a product does not even remotely do what it says it does (I am not talking about products that do not do things as well as they claim, but ones that do not even remotely do what they claim) then it SHOULD be help in violation of the regulations we have on such matters. Alas some products get away with it and homeopathy is one of them.

But it is worse than simply not doing what it claims. It is not doing what it claims in a context of people who are under such duress that they are often willing to try anything. It is very cynically offering products that do nothing to people they know are easy prey for exploitation and that is much worse than simply offering a product that does nothing. It is the height of exploitation and manipulation.

Ah, there's worse things in the world. Lighten up a bit

nozzferrahhtoo · 18-10-2011 10:46AM

Compak wrote: »

I think though people just realise its not a purposeful con by pharmacists. Firstly they get taught very little on homeopathy, why should they its not valid medicine.

Again I would not disagree with this. However again I am talking in just "hopes" and "ideals" and I would hope that a professional in any area would make a point of learning about something before offering it as a product or service.

They might not get taught much about homeopathy but they get taught a HELL of a lot on clinical trials, double blind experiments, the scientific method and all the other procedures involved in verifying the efficacy of a drug. It is the onus of such people to keep abreast of developments so when a product comes into their store they know nothing about they should be looking to read up on the results of the trials on which the product is based.

Pleading ignorance is a point therefore yes, but not a terribly powerful or useful one. If I randomly started suggesting medical procedures to a doctor I would expect him to check how and why and if they work before proceeding to take my word for it and starting sticking things into patients in the manner I described. I would not expect him to say "Well he thinks it works so I may as well offer it given I know very little about it myself".

Compak wrote: »

Second all they see is people coming in proclaiming how great it is, and I mean parents by that.

Indeed but again I have to talk of what I would "hope" for in situations like that. People who know better than me in areas such as that are the ideal people to stem my false conclusions and expectations on such matters. Rather than just listening to me harp on about how "great" the product was it would serve me better to have explained why I would think in that way and the things like "return to the mean" that likely led me to my error.

Compak wrote: »

Fifth, how many people slagging homeopathy then go to dr for an antibiotic for a cold.

All too many but rather than using that to justify homeopathy I would use that to highlight the reasons why homeopathy is ALSO the wrong solution. The thing is they both have EXACTLY the same effect because people get better any way. This "return to the mean" I mentioned. So give them homeopathy or antibiotics and you will get the same effect.... they will get better anyway then come in espousing the virtues of whichever product you plied them with because in their head their recovery is connected to whatever intervention you threw at them.

That is why I think it is up to our medical professionals, whether doctors or pharmacies, to explain to us not only why these products likely will do nothing at all, but why we are likely to think they do.

Again this is all just hopes and ideals however. I simply hold the highly educated to a higher standard in my head and I think a certain onus of "with power comes responsibility" falls on them to help fights the biases that people are prone to in such matters.

And I do not think "placebo" effect is something we can hide behind to justify such things because often there IS no placebo effect but in fact the "return to the mean" effect which people are all too willing to dress up as placebo in order to justify what they do.

homeopathy/alternative medicine in pharmacies

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