Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

HSE to axe all overtime, and increase normal working hours to justify it.

«1

Comments

  • #2
    imported_guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭imported_guy


    HSE doesnt really care about what you think or how everyone would protest, protesting short of a violent revolution never works (even the violent revolution bit is arguable), in HSE's opinion this tactic could work if they bring in a few more of those pakistani and indian doctors, and from now on even nurses and other healthcare staff as well, but even the doctors they bought in earlier this year are being meldoramatic these days.


  • #3
    mossyc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    A lot of Organisations have increased Working Hours in order to save Labour costs over the last few years.

    It's well known that Nurses are encouraged to take all Sick Leave entitlements in order to make that generous entitlement look necessary.

    No reason that HSE workers should be treated any differently to other employees in this country.

    Savings need to be made and reform will hopefully bring these about.


  • #4
    foreverandever
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 207 ✭✭foreverandever


    I can see where the hse is coming from because the overtime bill is huge but i think increasing normal working hours is a bit of a joke. People have to be able to have a life and especially when you've children you'd rather get home in the evening to them. But i guess at the moment people are working extra hours and in some places not for any money so there has to be a balance.


  • #5
    mossyc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    What are standard hours for Nurses these days?

    Am I right in saying it is 3 12 Hour Shifts a week plus and extra day a month?

    That's what I heard on RTE News yesterday.


  • #6
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    How can they increase "normal" working hours without going over 40 hours and pushing them into overtime again? How many (few) hours are these people working? Are they part time or what? Why would part time staff get overtime?


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    lonestargirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭lonestargirl


    It depends on what they are asking for. I work a 35 hour week, I would have no problem being asked to work a little more. It would be just people coming more in line with the hours worked in the private sector. I do know people who have 32.5 hour contracts - that's no really on anymore.


  • #8
    Andrew33
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭Andrew33


    WOW! apart from frontline staff who deserve every penny they're paid the rest of the HSE (and public service in general) is just a massively bloated, under achieving moribund juggernaut that think the tax payer can continue to pay for their extended morning coffee, hour and a half lunch break and afternoon break while they moan about not getting paid overtime to do the job they've already been paid to do during their normal hours. It makes me f-ucking sick to see my collegues working 65-70 hrs a week just to keep their heads above water while the public service continues to suck this country dry. Get off your holes and start pulling your weight:mad:


  • #9
    Spacedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Spacedog


    HSE is a bureaucratic quango set up do deflect attention from the Minister for Health. If you do strike, negotiate only directly with the minister, and if they want to gut jobs, HSE-do-nothings should be the first to go.

    HSE are a relic from the Progressive Domocrats era. they're job is to cook the numbers to make a run down health system look good on paper and to deflect criticism from the minister. They absorb scandals (minister: "it's not my fault, ask the HSE!"), and if they could they would break the wheels off trollys so they can call them beds.

    If i get sick, I don't want a nurse of doctor seeing me after being working for 18 hours straight.

    If the minister for health has a problem paying overtime, then the answer to to hire more staff, drop the points for studying medicine, by adding more courses in parallel (keep same standards for becoming a doctor).

    The government or the IMF don't care because they have their own hospitals with no waiting lines, with well paid staff with half the hours.

    If some kiddy noob user starts spouting about you being compared to other private business. I suggest you compare yourself to the private sector of your own profession. The truth is most of us have never steped in the door of any of these hotel hospitals.


  • #10
    mossyc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    lonestargirl wrote: »
    It depends on what they are asking for. I work a 35 hour week, I would have no problem being asked to work a little more. It would be just people coming more in line with the hours worked in the private sector. I do know people who have 32.5 hour contracts - that's no really on anymore.

    As in every Hour worked after 32.5 is paid at Overtime Rates (time and a half?,Double Time?)

    If so, that really isn't acceptable.


  • #11
    lonestargirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭lonestargirl


    mossyc123 wrote: »
    As in every Hour worked after 32.5 is paid at Overtime Rates (time and a half?,Double Time?)

    No, we have a complete overtime ban. Any hours worked over your contract can be carried as time-in-lieu. There aren't many on those 32.5 hour contracts, they are a bit of a relic. It's also unfair on newer staff to have discrepencies in the contract hours across a department.

    @Andrew33, these are frontline staff. I'm not saying we should be doing 70 hours a week but I don't think an increase to 40 is unreasonable (or perhaps loosing a day or two holidays a year).


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    QuiteInterestin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭QuiteInterestin


    lonestargirl wrote: »
    It depends on what they are asking for. I work a 35 hour week, I would have no problem being asked to work a little more. It would be just people coming more in line with the hours worked in the private sector. I do know people who have 32.5 hour contracts - that's no really on anymore.

    +1, I'm the same, work a 35 hour week but wouldn't mind being asked to work a 39 hour week/have annual leave reduced to help balance the books. As long as it would apply to everyone, not only certain people who started after a certain date etc. I know some on 33hour weeks with flexitime so anything extra is taken as time in lieu, others on 35 hour weeks who started before a certain date and so have longer breaks then others who started later etc. There's so many different type of contracts/different conditions across the HSE that any changes would have to apply to everyone, no exceptions!


  • #13
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Yes but even if you guys want to do that your unions will never agree to it.


  • #14
    lonestargirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭lonestargirl


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Yes but even if you guys want to do that your unions will never agree to it.
    I know :mad:, the health unions don't seem to be in touch with the reality of life and opinions on the ground.


  • #15
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Breezer


    In the hospital I work in, there is one computer available for junior doctors to do their admin work on in the evenings. Instead of investing €300-€400 for a second computer, which would have itself paid for within a week, the HSE pays us all overtime every evening while we queue to use this machine. What do we do on this machine? A lot of the time we copy figures from blood results down onto flow sheets for ward rounds, because the software isn't capable of printing them in a format that will show a trend of results over time. Just one small example of the madness that exists within the HSE.


  • #16
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    lonestargirl wrote: »
    I know :mad:, the health unions don't seem to be in touch with the reality of life and opinions on the ground.

    The unions have their own interests.
    Question is - what can you do about it ?


  • #17
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    imported_guy wrote: »
    HSE doesnt really care about what you think or how everyone would protest, protesting short of a violent revolution never works (even the violent revolution bit is arguable), in HSE's opinion this tactic could work if they bring in a few more of those pakistani and indian doctors, and from now on even nurses and other healthcare staff as well, but even the doctors they bought in earlier this year are being meldoramatic these days.

    I think "melodramatic" is a bit of an insult, these doctors have been kept here for 4 months now , some still without pay.
    The way they have been treated to keep the folly of reconfiguration going is shocking.


  • #18
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    I think "melodramatic" is a bit of an insult, these doctors have been kept here for 4 months now , some still without pay.
    The way they have been treated to keep the folly of reconfiguration going is shocking.

    Indeed.
    I missed this melodramatic crack . Imported guy what are on? Melodramatic ? They've been treated really badly. Disgraceful stuff!


  • #19
    Biologic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭Biologic


    Another reason to leave Ireland once I qualify, not that I needed one.


  • #20
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Biologic wrote: »
    Another reason to leave Ireland once I qualify, not that I needed one.

    :(


  • #21
    imported_guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭imported_guy


    opinion guy wrote: »
    Indeed.
    I missed this melodramatic crack . Imported guy what are on? Melodramatic ? They've been treated really badly. Disgraceful stuff!
    im from one of the aforementioned countries, trust me, this is a five star treatment compared to what they're used to.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    Does not make it acceptable. Bringing professionals over here with inflated promises of pay. Then leaving them isolated in B+Bs for months - Meals provided in the hospitals- as long as you did not want to fast during ramadam, Some weekends the resturant was closed.

    Oh you will be caught in a turf war between the HSE and the IMC.

    I am sure you are from one of those countries but I do not believe you are aware of the differences between how doctors are treated in these countries.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61511435&postcount=1


  • #23
    imported_guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭imported_guy


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    Does not make it acceptable. Bringing professionals over here with inflated promises of pay. Then leaving them isolated in B+Bs for months - Meals provided in the hospitals- as long as you did not want to fast during ramadam, Some weekends the resturant was closed.

    Oh you will be caught in a turf war between the HSE and the IMC.

    I am sure you are from one of those countries but I do not believe you are aware of the differences between how doctors are treated in these countries.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61511435&postcount=1

    white people call a good belting child abuse, eastern people call it parenting... see how it works?


  • #24
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Ok I'm officially ignoring the troll now


  • #25
    CB1989
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭CB1989


    The way I see it, its the perfect way for the HSE and the government to completely half all doctor's salaries in a number of years. Removing overtime and increasing working hours is so ridiculous it makes sense. Any newly qualified Irish educated doctor knows they can earn much better but also just earn money for the hours that they've actually worked (instead of this time in lieu nonsense) in countries like australia new zealand canada and the states. There is already a large emigration of junior doctors to these countries, if these new wages come in, it will lead to a mass exodus of 90%+ of junior doctors. But, this massive brain drain in ireland will be filled by doctors from countries like pakistan and india like what we're seeing already, who are more than happy to work these hours for this wage as, what i can only presume, is a better wage then in their home countries. And in a few years these foreign junior doctors will be in senior posts and won't be looking for the same inflated wage that senior doctors of a few years ago were getting so I see this as a whole move to edge out expensive home bred doctors for their cheaper foreign counterparts.
    P.S. i in no way want to belittle any foreign doctor, I feel they are as competent and as well trained and educated as any Irish doctor, but as they're coming from lower wage countries, i feel their willingness to work for lower wages will force many irish doctors abroad. I would also like to remind people in the private sector that to be a doctor is a huge investment. For me personally I gave up a social life from the age of 16 for two years to study for the leaving cert, and then worked my ass off for 6 years for an undergraduate medical degree. Not looking for any sympathy whatsoever for my life choices, this is the life I chose, but if I work an 80 hour week, then I expect to get paid for an 80 hour week in cash, not time in lieu!


  • #26
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    imported_guy wrote: »
    white people call a good belting child abuse, eastern people call it parenting... see how it works?

    Thats why when people are trafficked here it is illegal, even though the traffickers say "it is much worse for them in their own country"

    We should not and do not accept people being treated like this.
    For years the HSE and the department of health carried on like this. Refusing to pay over time, then refusing to pay after 65 hours, then paying only half time over 65 hours. Eventually paying for the work done but refusing to comply with EU legislation.

    I cannot believe the way these doctors have been treated.
    I know of one doctor who has been unpaid for 3 months, while his wife and kids are in India.
    I cannot believe you think that they are being melodramatic.


  • #27
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Meanwhile in Scotland doc dies driving home after night shift:

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2011/10/16/worked-to-death-exhausted-young-doctor-veers-off-road-and-dies-after-gruelling-nightshift-86908-23492372/#.TpxQ7SZGHDh.facebook


  • #28
    ThatDrGuy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 325 ✭✭ThatDrGuy


    Again I say it. Just leave. Ireland has no future as a country and medicine in Ireland is done for. Im starting in NZ soon. Im contracted for 40 hours a week and I may occasionally be asked to do 46. All OT is paid for, training actually happens and the career has a future. I think there are 3 out of my graduating class of 100+ left in Irish medicine and all of them are leaving this year. Stop complaining - its not going to improve, the country is bankrupt and you guys are the easiest targets. Its tragic if you cant leave because of family etc but there are still much better jobs out there in big pharma, public health etc than hospital med/surgery. Get out before its too late.


  • #29
    4Sheets
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭4Sheets


    Ireland is rapidly becoming a 3rd world nation..once again


  • #30
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    To the guys who are leaving, where did you get your training? Who paid for it?


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    imported_guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭imported_guy


    CiaranC wrote: »
    To the guys who are leaving, where did you get your training? Who paid for it?
    probably ireland, probably the tax payer, and yes they arguably got shafted sicne they're not getting the dividends of what they invested into :rolleyes:


Advertisement