Bankers!

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 10:50AM #1

After reading the bazillionth post giving out about 'bankers' and how they are screwing the plain people of Ireland, and we should rise up against them, and that they are evil and nasty - it occurred to me once more: who the hell are people referring to?

Who are 'the bankers'? What do people mean when they throw out this term?

Do they mean:

1. The senior management in the banks who actually make the decisions?
2. The owners of the banks?
3. The people sitting in the offices 9 to 5 doing the ordinary office work?
4. Someone else?

Who are these evil bankers? Or is it just a stupid cliche thrown out by folks on the left and those who don't have a clue how the world and the world of business work?

srsly78 · 16-10-2011 10:53AM

Most people are idiots and mean the tellers sitting at the counter.

suitseir · 16-10-2011 11:01AM

srsly78 wrote: »

Most people are idiots and mean the tellers sitting at the counter.

Don't understand your post?

Arthurdaly · 16-10-2011 11:01AM

Its a tiny percentage that make the kind of decisions that resulted in the recent carnage. I would think at best its about 1% of the workforce in a big bank that make the kind of decisions that could collapse a country so its definitely not anyone below senior management.

suitseir · 16-10-2011 11:09AM

Arthurdaly wrote: »

Its a tiny percentage that make the kind of decisions that resulted in the recent carnage. I would think at best its about 1% of the workforce in a big bank that make the kind of decisions that could collapse a country so its definitely not anyone below senior management.

Correct. You seem to know your stuff!!!

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 11:33AM

Arthurdaly wrote: »

Its a tiny percentage that make the kind of decisions that resulted in the recent carnage. I would think at best its about 1% of the workforce in a big bank that make the kind of decisions that could collapse a country so its definitely not anyone below senior management.

This is all very well and factual, but I was hoping to hear from the clowns who blame the 'bankers' for all society's ills without ever explaining who they are talking about.

Where are you, lads?

Fishooks12 · 16-10-2011 11:41AM

My father is middle management in AIB

Struggling to put me and my brothers through college and has had his wages cut severely in the last few years

Never has he had his golf membership paid for and hasn't gotten a christmas bonus in the last 3 years. The staff of the branch he used to manage before being promoted aren't even allowed a christmas party

It's the tiny minority at the top that made all the decisions that ****ed us up and as a result all bank employees are stigmatised

joshrogan · 16-10-2011 11:43AM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

My father is middle management in AIB

Struggling to put me and my brothers through college and has had his wages cut severely in the last few years

Never has he had his golf membership paid for and hasn't gotten a christmas bonus in the last 3 years. The staff of the branch he used to manage before being promoted aren't even allowed a christmas party

It's the tiny minority at the top that made all the decisions that ****ed us up and as a result all bank employees are stigmatised

IT UR DA'S FAULT I CANT GETTA JOBB!ONE1!! BLEEDIN BANKERS

Freddie59 · 16-10-2011 11:56AM

srsly78 wrote: »

Most people are idiots and mean the tellers sitting at the counter.

Of course they are.:rolleyes: "Most people are idiots".....lovely comment.:rolleyes: The problem most people have is actually with the ex-Government, the owners and management of the banks, and the developers.

They just want to see some justice, AKA treating them like any private enterprise - meaning close the majority of them.

Fishooks12 · 16-10-2011 11:59AM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Of course they are.:rolleyes: "Most people are idiots".....lovely comment.:rolleyes: The problem most people have is actually with the ex-Government, the owners and management of the banks, and the developers.

They just want to see some justice, AKA treating them like any private enterprise - meaning close the majority of them.

yep close the majority of the banks, real guaranteed way to get the economy going again:rolleyes:

Immaculate Pasta · 16-10-2011 12:00PM

srsly78 wrote: »

Most people are idiots and mean the tellers sitting at the counter.

This. Half the clowns who are out protesting against bankers at the moment don't know who they're protesting against.

When I left school at 18 I went to work as a cashier at a high street bank. Now as soon as I joined it was the start of the financial collapse. I had customers coming up to me saying "It's your fault why the country is in a mess!" and all this carry on. It made me laugh because I'd only been paying in cheques etc. for a couple of months and suddenly I'm at fault for a global financial crisis

.

So sorry lads it's my fault. I took my eye off the ball for a second there :rolleyes:

Arthurdaly · 16-10-2011 12:01PM

Just to expand on that, its probably the top 20 people in a massive company who decide the strategy and this is communicated down to people at a lower level.

In the case of the subprime crisis the CEOs in the biggest investment banks could not explain exactly what had gone wrong, they themselves did not understand their own products.

Who are these CEOs answerable to? Nobody but investors, and when on the upside nobody asks questions and will live in ignorant bliss. When on the downside those same guys will walk away taking with them massive earnings and bonus.

Its all pretty disgusting but everyone plays their part.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 12:27PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Of course they are.:rolleyes: "Most people are idiots".....lovely comment.:rolleyes: The problem most people have is actually with the ex-Government, the owners and management of the banks, and the developers.

Well, the owners of the banks were your pension fund and mine, plus some private shareholders who would have held anything from millions down to a few hundred euros worth of shares. The owner of AIB, Anglo, BOI, PTSB, Irish Nationwide and EBS today is of course the Irish taxpayer.

Freddie59 wrote: »

They just want to see some justice, AKA treating them like any private enterprise - meaning close the majority of them.

For sure, they should have been let go bust instead of guaranteed a few years back, but you'd need a government with a lot more balls and a lot more integrity than Fianna Failure to let that happen. Once the guarantee was made, our course was more or less set.

Fishooks12 · 16-10-2011 12:30PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

For sure, they should have been let go bust instead of guaranteed a few years back, but you'd need a government with a lot more balls and a lot more integrity than Fianna Failure to let that happen. Once the guarantee was made, our course was more or less set.

Do you realise what would happen if the government "let the banks go"? Anyone basic knowledge of economics knows that it wasn't an option

My name is URL · 16-10-2011 12:30PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

For sure, they should have been let go bust instead of guaranteed a few years back, but you'd need a government with a lot more balls and a lot more integrity than Fianna Failure to let that happen. Once the guarantee was made, our course was more or less set.

FG & SF also both supported and voted in favor of the bank guarantees.

Fishooks12 · 16-10-2011 12:32PM

My name is URL wrote: »

FG & SF also both supported and voted in favor of the bank guarantees.

Because if it didn't happen we'd be all ten times more ****ed than we are now

jaffa20 · 16-10-2011 12:35PM

It's the people behind the scenes we don't see who made all the wrong decisions. The people working 9-5 are now paying for those decisions with pay cuts, severity measures to save money and job losses. They are also the ones who take the abuse on a daily basis.

The guys who made the deciisions are still sitting on big bonuses and are being rewarded for now making new decisions to attempt to get out of the mess they created in the first place.

It sucks to work in a bank right now.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 12:36PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Do you realise what would happen if the government "let the banks go"? Anyone basic knowledge of economics knows that it wasn't an option

I do. I've discussed it at some length on this very site. I've lived in Argentina in the years after their default, in addition to having a pretty solid third level/fourth level background in economics, so I've theoretical and practical knowledge about the subject that should stand up reasonably well...

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 12:38PM

jaffa20 wrote: »

The guys who made the deciisions are still sitting on big bonuses and are being rewarded for now making new decisions to attempt to get out of the mess they created in the first place.

I don't know how many members of the boards and how many of the chief execs are left from the bubble era, but I'm pretty sure most of the board members and all of the chief execs are gone (albeit with handsome golden parachutes :rolleyes:).

Duke Leonal Felmet · 16-10-2011 12:39PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Do you realise what would happen if the government "let the banks go"? Anyone basic knowledge of economics knows that it wasn't an option

I do. I've discussed it at some length on this very site. I've lived in Argentina in the years after their default, in addition to having a pretty solid third level/fourth level background in economics, so I've theoretical and practical knowledge about the subject that should stand up reasonably well...

Then you would know that the Argentine financial crisis (either one) was not directly comparable to Ireland.

Glad to see those degrees/life experience being put to use.

Mike 1972 · 16-10-2011 12:42PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Never has he had his golf membership paid for and hasn't gotten a christmas bonus in the last 3 years. The staff of the branch he used to manage before being promoted aren't even allowed a christmas party

First world problems ?

Fishooks12 · 16-10-2011 12:44PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

First world problems ?

just as an example of how every section of banking staff are vilified, that story about the golf membership was upper management for example but the way it was reported you'd think it applied to every manager

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 12:44PM

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Then you would know that the Argentine financial crisis (either one) was not directly comparable to Ireland.

It's not a mirror image, no. I don't think I claimed it was?

Do you think that living in post-default Argentina is hindering my understanding of the sort of problems that a bank collapse in Ireland would entail?

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Glad to see those degrees/life experience being put to use.

What?

Your posts are usually a lot better than that.

My name is URL · 16-10-2011 12:47PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Because if it didn't happen we'd be all ten times more ****ed than we are now

Maybe, but there's a good chance that we would have recovered much faster if insolvent banks were just allowed to go under. The recapitalized banks here are still broken despite the guarantees they were given. The country is now nothing more than a debt-servicing machine, and will be for decades to come.

Fishooks12 · 16-10-2011 12:50PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Maybe, but there's a good chance that we would have recovered much faster if insolvent banks were just allowed to go under. The recapitalized banks here are still broken despite the guarantees they were given. The country is now nothing more than a debt-servicing machine, and will be for decades to come.

we've already returned to growth so I think we can be a bit more optimistic than that

mikemac · 16-10-2011 12:56PM

"We own you now"
"You work for us now"

There are some right clowns out there, bitching at the porters and cashiers as if they managed to break a bank in between lodging cheques and locking doors

But then I suppose these are the same people who go to restaurants and bars and complain and intimidate the minimum wage students about the prices and it never occurs to them to go look for the manager or the owner

The golf membership was a non-story whipped up by the media with an agenda. And sure AIB does sports and social and you can get contributions towards certain clubs but the figures were inflated in the newspapers, I knew as I was working there before the story broke.
Can't believe what you read I suppose

It's dangerous the amount of power Tony O'Reilly has

squod · 16-10-2011 12:58PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Do you realise what would happen if the government "let the banks go"? Anyone basic knowledge of economics knows that it wasn't an option

Moar RTE guff peddled out randomly across the internet. There's no foundation to what you're saying. Some of the banks weren't suitable for bail-out agreements or guarantees that's for sure.

The fact is tat what we're left with is the worst case scenario. We owe people we don't know billions because of a bizarre guarantee handed out by a bad man. People across Europe are furious at this decision and rightly so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVXi-F6vZ-Q

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 01:00PM

mikemac wrote: »

But then I suppose these are the same people who go to restaurants and bars and complain and intimidate the minimum wage students about the prices and it never occurs to them to go look for the manager or the owner

I recall getting an earful from a McDonald's customer a long time ago about some corporate policy regarding Happy Meals. I'm not sure if she thought the teenager in front of her at the till was also on the board of McDonalds Corp., or had a direct line to the chief executive, but I'm pretty certain her rant didn't result in any changes in corporate policy.

4leto · 16-10-2011 01:08PM

When I talk about bankers I am talking about those that are investors the Gordon Gekko's of this world.

I wish I was one, they earn big, very big, so that attracts resentment.

Einhard · 16-10-2011 01:10PM

squod wrote: »

The fact is tat what we're left with is the worst case scenario. We owe people we don't know billions because of a bizarre guarantee handed out by a bad man. People across Europe are furious at this decision and rightly so.

I think it's very unfair to make a moral judgement against Brian lenihan in such a manner, and label him a "bad man". It may have been a poor decision, and he may have been incompetent, but that does not make him a bad man. The crisis facing the government was unprecedented in Irish history, and the choices stark. Nobody knew what exactly would happen either way. It's all very well to sit here a few years after the fact and, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, conemn the man in such harsh terms, whilst conveniently ignoring the fact that the bailout was supported by both SF and FG, and was welcomed by many economic commentators.

Monty Burnz · 16-10-2011 01:12PM

4leto wrote: »

When I talk about bankers I am talking about those that are investors the Gordon Gekko's of this world.

I wish I was one, they earn big, very big, so that attracts resentment.

I'm an investor (on a small scale). If you've a spare 1000 euro, you can be an investor. If you have a pension, then someone invests your money on your behalf.

The Gordon Gecko types didn't cause the property bubble here - we did that all by ourselves.

Bankers!

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