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davidpfitz · 05-10-2011 01:50PM

Sundy wrote: »

If i rightly recall Rob Kearney got a yellow for this against wales or somebody a year or two ago.

Edit: Maybe wasnt Kearney, deffo saw it happen though.

Twas Tommy Bowe, if I remember correctly. Penalty try, yellow card combo I think.

Reloc8 · 05-10-2011 07:35PM

It was Tommy Bowe against the All Blacks in Croke Park.

castie · 06-10-2011 03:57AM

Reloc8 wrote: »

It was Tommy Bowe against the All Blacks in Croke Park.

Yup!

http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/11/749/new-zealand-triumph-against-ireland-at-croke-park

Jawgap · 07-10-2011 07:39AM

One of the Boks got binned for a deliberate knock-on in the Tonga game - it offends the spirit of the game (the deliberate knock-on, not the binning!)

Ste_D · 07-10-2011 10:46AM

It was John Smit against Samoa.

it offends the spirit of the game

not in South Africa

fryup · 11-10-2011 09:41AM

when jamie o'connor was taking the conversion for australia in the quarter final a springbok player ran in front of him before he kicked the ball...surely this is against the rules??????

castie · 12-10-2011 04:53AM

fryup wrote: »

when jamie o'connor was taking the conversion for australia in the quarter final a springbok player ran in front of him before he kicked the ball...surely this is against the rules??????

For a conversion your entitled to charge the player kicking once he was begun his run up. (Not sure what the technical term for run up is)

Ste_D · 12-10-2011 08:13AM

castie wrote: »

For a conversion your entitled to charge the player kicking once he was begun his run up. (Not sure what the technical term for run up is)

Yeah, once the player has moved towards the ball you are entitled to charge them.

If there is an early charge, or if any of the players are touching the posts, I believe the ref can order the conversion retaken.

castie · 13-10-2011 03:59AM

Ste_D wrote: »

Yeah, once the player has moved towards the ball you are entitled to charge them.

If there is an early charge, or if any of the players are touching the posts, I believe the ref can order the conversion retaken.

I remember charging a guy because I thought he had started but he hadnt.
Seemed it rattled the guy as he shanked the kick very badly when he took it again. (first time was quite close)

fryup · 13-10-2011 08:02AM

fryup wrote: »

when jamie o'connor was taking the conversion for australia in the quarter final a springbok player ran in front of him before he kicked the ball...surely this is against the rules??????

castie wrote: »

For a conversion your entitled to charge the player kicking once he was begun his run up. (Not sure what the technical term for run up is)

but, o'connor didn't move...the springbok made no attempt to block it he just sauntered up in front of him, the crowd booed the ref did nothing..it was a strange scenario

castie · 13-10-2011 08:17AM

fryup wrote: »

but, o'connor didn't move...the springbok made no attempt to block it he just sauntered up in front of him, the crowd booed the ref did nothing..it was a strange scenario

Got a link to it?

Ste_D · 13-10-2011 08:22AM

fryup wrote: »

but, o'connor didn't move...the springbok made no attempt to block it he just sauntered up in front of him, the crowd booed the ref did nothing..it was a strange scenario

If you check it out again O'Connor did move, just not towards the ball. He does some silly waving of his hands before he starts his run up. They started the charge down when he did that.

Edit: Found this video - its not from the RWC - its from the tri nations, but watch his movements before he starts to run up to the ball, he does move his feet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtJavZm7U5E

fryup · 13-10-2011 08:57AM

Ste_D wrote: »

If you check it out again O'Connor did move, just not towards the ball. He does some silly waving of his hands before he starts his run up. They started the charge down when he did that.

so...can that be classed as a run up??

castie · 13-10-2011 09:13AM

fryup wrote: »

so...can that be classed as a run up??

He motions forward with his feet and then steps back.
That to me is start of a run up.

Kiwi_knock · 13-10-2011 11:12PM

In relation to the O'Connor kick, this article was posted on the official Wallabies website.

Wallaby wing James O’Connor is in no doubt that he will ask for a re-kick should an All Black break early in an attempt to charge down one of his conversion attempts in the semi-final against New Zealand on Sunday.

The Australians have reviewed an incident from their quarter-final win over South Africa where Springboks' wing JP Pietersen prematurely charged O’Connor as he prepared to attempt a conversion of James Horwill’s 11th-minute try.

After being told to retreat by referee Bryce Lawrence, Pietersen jogged out of the way, only for O’Connor to subsequently miss the kick.

“I didn’t notice it too much - my focus is clearly on the ball. But if it happens again, we’ve spoken about it, and I’ll be taking a re-kick,” the 21-year-old Wallaby said.

The incident would no doubt have attracted greater scrutiny if Australia’s two-point winning margin against South Africa had instead been the margin of defeat.

Distinctive routine

But the Wallabies managed to survive the match 11-9, so they can afford to live and learn from the experience.

The difficulty they face is that O’Connor’s distinctive pre-kick routine begins with a foot movement that could be easily mistaken as the start of his approach to the ball.

Tellingly, JP Pietersen is not the only opponent at Rugby World Cup 2011 to have been fooled.

A similar incident occurred in Australia’s Pool C clash with Russia, when a Bears’ player mistimed his attempted charge down and O’Connor suffered his only missed conversion from his 10 attempts for the match.

The Laws of Rugby state that no player of the team that has conceded a try may cross their own try-line to prevent the conversion attempt until the kicker begins their approach to the ball.

If there is an infringement of this rule and the kick misses, the referee is obliged to allow another conversion attempt.

In neither match did the Australians approach the referee to request a re-take of the kick but this is now set to change.

“Obviously James (O’Connor) is closer to the action, so he'll ask. But if that doesn't work then I'll ask the question,” captain Horwill said.

“It is stated in the rules that he is allowed if he wants it."

Ste_D · 14-10-2011 08:40AM

castie wrote: »

He motions forward with his feet and then steps back.
That to me is start of a run up.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Although I'm sure he would argue that he hasnt actually moved forward.

The fact that defences on several different teams have been confused by it would indicate that they think hes moved towards the ball too.

Samich · 15-10-2011 01:29PM

touch judging my first game tomorrow.
Just wanna make sure of a few rules

If a player touches the in goal flag and touches down a try it is a try, he would have to hit the bottom of the flag yes?

also if the ball is kicked out of play but swerves back in is that out or in?

15-10-2011 01:31PM

the flag is in play these days, only the lines are out of play.

If the ball hits the ground out of play, it is out, but if it swerves across the line in mid-air and re-enters the pitch without hitting the ground it is still in play.

daniels.ducks · 15-10-2011 06:34PM

When dos an uncontested scrum happen?
Was playing a few years ago and one of these happened. Wasn't sure why at the time... just curious now.

castie · 15-10-2011 06:47PM

daniels.ducks wrote: »

When dos an uncontested scrum happen?
Was playing a few years ago and one of these happened. Wasn't sure why at the time... just curious now.

Theres a few reasons.
Most common would be when one of the teams does not have a trained front row whether it be injury or one of the front three being carded.

17-10-2011 12:04AM

Sorry if this is a digression, but what exactly is an uncontested scrum? I mean, what happens? Does it mean one side just start with ball in hand?

MungBean · 17-10-2011 12:50AM

19543261 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a digression, but what exactly is an uncontested scrum? I mean, what happens? Does it mean one side just start with ball in hand?

You still go through the motions of the scrum but theres no drive from either side. Theres no attempt made to win the ball and the feeding team retain possession.

castie · 17-10-2011 01:51AM

MungBean wrote: »

You still go through the motions of the scrum but theres no drive from either side. Theres no attempt made to win the ball and the feeding team retain possession.

Scrum infringements can still be pinged though like not feeding straight or props not binding.

Shelflife · 17-10-2011 12:51PM

castie wrote: »

Scrum infringements can still be pinged though like not feeding straight or props not binding.

technically yes , but you wouldnt really bother castie , well i wouldnt , would you?

castie · 18-10-2011 02:50AM

Shelflife wrote: »

technically yes , but you wouldnt really bother castie , well i wouldnt , would you?

Only mentioned as I saw a guy doing it in a J5 game a year or two ago in Dublin.
Was pretty hilarious at everyones reaction at penalty for not binding.

Jawgap · 18-10-2011 08:31AM

castie wrote: »

Only mentioned as I saw a guy doing it in a J5 game a year or two ago in Dublin.
Was pretty hilarious at everyones reaction at penalty for not binding.

Not binding can be dangerous because it disrupts the structural integrity of the scrum........saying that, if there's no pushing 'n' shoving that hardly matters:)

Maybe the ref wanted to practice giving penalties:D

Ste_D · 18-10-2011 08:32AM

There is one small differences as far as I know. At any regular scrum the back row can break off as long as they retreat 5 yards. They cant do this from an uncontested scrum.

** Heard this off a J2 ref so it could well be complete bullsh*t

Downtime · 18-10-2011 08:57AM

Ste_D wrote: »

There is one small differences as far as I know. At any regular scrum the back row can break off as long as they retreat 5 yards. They cant do this from an uncontested scrum.

** Heard this off a J2 ref so it could well be complete bullsh*t

He was wrong. The 8 cannot break from the 'regular' scrum. There was a rule that the 8 couldn't pick and go in an uncontested scrum but this is gone.

daveharnett · 19-10-2011 10:54AM

fryup wrote: »

but, o'connor didn't move...the springbok made no attempt to block it he just sauntered up in front of him, the crowd booed the ref did nothing..it was a strange scenario

I've seen this a few times where kickers do an excessive amount of shuffling/fidgeting. IF the would-be charging player is acting in good faith, it seems harsh to penalize him by giving the kicker with two bites at the cherry. Seems reasonable for the ref to let it go and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Mind you, at the level you're talking about, very little happens by accident.

daveharnett · 19-10-2011 11:10AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Not binding can be dangerous because it disrupts the structural integrity of the scrum........saying that, if there's no pushing 'n' shoving that hardly matters:)

Bear in mind that you have now got a player in the front row who has (in all probability) never played there before, and who could be totally the wrong shape for the job. Add in the fact that there is always the possibility of a second row having a brain fart and engaging normally, a prop taking it into his head to have a little go at the newbie etc...

Binding also keeps the players stuck to the scrum that bit longer, giving the pretty boys a chance to do their thing. A loosehead can pop out the side almost as fast as a flanker if there is no bind/pressure from the lock.

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