Average bike in Ireland only costs 190 euro

dayshah · 10-10-2011 11:28PM

kona wrote: »

I find that a awful word to describe people. Usually used as an excuse for people to hide behind to make themselves feel better. I can tell you I sold alot of expensive bikes to people who were FAR from "enthusiasts" , infact they hadnt ridden a bike in decades.

Your bike may work, but I can guarantee you for a hundred euros more at the beginning the bike would be exponentially better.
Sure it aint rocket science, but then again your brakes maybe rubbing off the rims somewhat, they may be not working as well as they should, your gears may not change correctley, your bottom bracket and headset maybe hanging out, theres a myriad of things.

By enthusiasts I mean people who identify themselves as cyclists. Rather than someone who is a student for example, and just so happens to use a bike rather than a bus or car.

Obviously if I spent more I would have gotten a better bike. The gear range is quite narrow, but that's fine for Dublin, which is fairly flat, not so great for Waterford where its hilly.

At the beginning my gears didn't change correctly, the cables just needed tightening. The bike is a simple one, no suspension, just 6 gears. Not much to go wrong. A €500 bike also needs maintenance.

As to something being exponentially better, I strongly disagree. As I said, I also have a bike that cost about €450. Its definitely a better bike, and I use it for longer journeys. But I would say my €199 bike is better than a fancy €1,000 bike for what I use it, which is short trips into town. Its far less likely to be stolen, so I can relax when I lock it up.

dayshah · 10-10-2011 11:31PM

kona wrote: »

Why drive a VW when you can have a Lotus?

I have a big dick, so I don't need a Lotus

kona · 10-10-2011 11:32PM

dayshah wrote: »

By enthusiasts I mean people who identify themselves as cyclists. Rather than someone who is a student for example, and just so happens to use a bike rather than a bus or car.

Obviously if I spent more I would have gotten a better bike. The gear range is quite narrow, but that's fine for Dublin, which is fairly flat, not so great for Waterford where its hilly.

At the beginning my gears didn't change correctly, the cables just needed tightening. The bike is a simple one, no suspension, just 6 gears. Not much to go wrong. A €500 bike also needs maintenance.

As to something being exponentially better, I strongly disagree. As I said, I also have a bike that cost about €450. Its definitely a better bike, and I use it for longer journeys. But I would say my €199 bike is better than a fancy €1,000 bike for what I use it, which is short trips into town. Its far less likely to be stolen, so I can relax when I lock it up.

:eek:

I.Dont.Know.What.To.Say.To.That.

kona · 10-10-2011 11:33PM

dayshah wrote: »

I have a big dick, so I don't need a Lotus

Poverty spec BMW so?:p

dayshah · 10-10-2011 11:36PM

kona wrote: »

:eek:

I.Dont.Know.What.To.Say.To.That.

If I bring a €1,000 bike into town there is less chance of it being their when I return than my €199 bike.

You have racing bikes for racing, touring bikes for touring, mountain bikes for mountain biking, and €199 bikes for cycling into the city centre.

kona · 10-10-2011 11:40PM

dayshah wrote: »

If I bring a €1,000 bike into town there is less chance of it being their when I return than my €199 bike.

You have racing bikes for racing, touring bikes for touring, mountain bikes for mountain biking, and €199 bikes for cycling into the city centre.

Ive cycled into city centre, locked the bike across the road from flats and it was still there.

You need a good lock and a good bike , not a good bike, a **** bike and a mediocre lock for both!

Why let scumbags dictate what you do?

tomasrojo · 10-10-2011 11:42PM

The funny thing about cheap bikes is that generally they aren't six-gear simple bikes that are stripped down to the basics. They usually have about twenty-one gears and derailleur systems made out of soft metal and plastic, and full suspension that doesn't work.

dave_o_brien · 10-10-2011 11:56PM

dayshah wrote: »

If I bring a €1,000 bike into town there is less chance of it being their when I return than my €199 bike.

You have racing bikes for racing, touring bikes for touring, mountain bikes for mountain biking, and €199 bikes for cycling into the city centre.

I'm tempted to bite, but I kinda know where you're coming from...

Like Kona, I've worked in bike shops for years, and totally agree with what he's saying about value, quality and perceived cost on a new bike. Now you're a bit of an odd one dayshah... A €199 bike that works well, and has done for a while? Surprising, but good to hear! You inferred no suspension, also good, but hard to find on cheap bikes these days; people seem to think that if a bike has suspension, it's probably a good thing until you explain to them how a fork works, and all the things that need to work in order to make it effective, and why the fork probably will not work on a bike that costs less than the fork itself should. SO what I'm getting at is that it sounds like you did actually get yourself a bargain; a cheap, functional, low stress bike that you don't worry about that much.

But you do realise that that's a really odd scenario, don't you?

Normally, if it's cheap (sub €300ish), alarm bells should be ringing loudly. Cheap transmission? Fork made of cardboard? Wheels that had a former career as gates? A frame made of either a swiss roll or solid lead? One or all the above is likely to be where the logic behind the "bargain" can be found. And what's frustrating is that then the bargain hunter says "f**king bike's a piece of crap, I'm just gonna drive/run/get a taxi/use my €80pogo stick instead".

By the time you get to €300, you normally have reliable, long lasting transmission, wheels that stay round and a frame that won't fold or start sinking into warm tarmac. This makes cycling a lot more predictable and enjoyable. Not hassle free, just lower hassle. And even when something does go wrong, it'll be of the your-tyres-are-bald-and-need-replacing sort, which people understand, not the your-chainset-snapped-cause-it's-crap variety, which just deepens the suspicion of bikes as being unreliable sources of pain...

Also, a lot of people will happily spend €100 on a pair of shoes, or jeans, or a few cd's, or whatever. Is a bike supposed to be expected to be reliable if it's the value of a pair of adidas f50 boots and a replica united jersey?

If someone answers yes to that, I'm not sure how to speak with people like you... It's not that I don't think you're a nice person, it's just... Oh, nevermind.

monument · 11-10-2011 12:07AM

dayshah wrote: »

If I bring a €1,000 bike into town there is less chance of it being their when I return than my €199 bike.

You have racing bikes for racing, touring bikes for touring, mountain bikes for mountain biking, and €199 bikes for cycling into the city centre.

I'm touching wood -- I use my €500+ bike in the city centre and spend a few wildish years parking it in town on Saturday and other nights for half the night or for the full night.

It's more about how, with what, and where you lock it.

dayshah wrote: »

I paid €199 for a new bike about 5 years ago. It came with mudguards, bottle-dynamo, rear rack, bell and has 6 gears.

Apart from the bell its still going well.

I rarely go more than 5km on that bike (I've another for long weekend journeys). Bikes are a 100 year technology. They are not complicated machines. It's the simplicity that I love.

It's perfectly possible to find a bike for 5km journeys, which is what the vast majority of normal people want. Bike enthusiasts are different.

I paid €199 for the bike, and it does the job of a bike for common journeys. Why pay more?

tomasrojo wrote: »

The funny thing about cheap bikes is that generally they aren't six-gear simple bikes that are stripped down to the basics. They usually have about twenty-one gears and derailleur systems made out of soft metal and plastic, and full suspension that doesn't work.

I've less of a problem with €200 bikes than kona does, but I as tomasrojo says most bikes for that price don't have what you got (unless they are nicked maybe). Most bikes sub €200 will supermarket bikes which are a discouragement even for sub 5km journeys.

11-10-2011 06:23AM

2 points.

1. Most people here are sports cyclists. It's a hobby. Therefore we'll pay magnitudes more for bicycles. It's about value. If you don't cycle much, spending €200 quid on a bike is fine. Would €700 get you a better bike, sure, but for many people the would get more value spending that €500 differently.

2. There's one factor that is perhaps skewing the dutch results. Cargo Bikes. They start at 4 figures.

Lumen · 11-10-2011 06:53AM

dave_o_brien wrote: »

Also, a lot of people will happily spend €100 on a pair of shoes, or jeans, or a few cd's, or whatever. Is a bike supposed to be expected to be reliable if it's the value of a pair of adidas f50 boots and a replica united jersey?

I have to spend €100 on a pair of jeans because cycling has made my legsarse a funny shape and none of the cheap ones fit me.

dave_o_brien · 11-10-2011 09:43AM

Lumen wrote: »

I have to spend €100 on a pair of jeans because cycling has made my legsarse a funny shape and none of the cheap ones fit me.

My legsarse is mad looking too.

Icyseanfitz · 11-10-2011 10:00AM

problem with a normal person looking to buy a bike is that they see a €200 bike and a €2000 bike and the only difference they will notice is that the expensive bike looks nicer, so from that basis they will just buy the €200 bike and be done with it.

my friend is a great example of this, i took him out mtbing, first with his around the town bso, the thing broke within the first 20 minutes, i then let him use my lapierre race pro, he is now looking at buying a new bike and is looking for my help, ive told him that anything less than 500 for an actual mtb is a fools errand but he just cant see the difference between a pos and a half decent bike its like talking to a wall.

a bso will "generally" be a cheap heavy slow pos, and there isnt a massive difference between a €200 bike and €450 bike lads....just saying

smacl · 11-10-2011 10:07AM

I bought the first bike I owned in over 20 years about two years ago, €150 second hand at my LBS, purely just to see if I'd take too cycling again. Basically a cheap old mountain bike, that I got great pleasure out of for a number of months, including up and down the local hills (not tracks!) such as Kilmashougue, Ticknock, etc... Great value, and enough to let me know I needed a better bike, €700 hybrid this time with the older bike passed on to a very grateful nephew.

I think it's good to start with a bike that you don't have to feel too precious about, and nice to know that your next bike will be better. I also enjoyed taking the bike apart and putting it back together, which I would've been nervous doing with something I'd spent more money on. I reckon for ~ €200 you can get a serviceable 2nd hand commuter, but wouldn't buy any new bike for this. Made that mistake with my daughters last bike which is more POS than BSO.

Just got a second hand road bike last night, €300 and loving the look and feel of it already. Absolutely delighted, tbh. If it gets me over the transition from hybrid to drop bar over the coming year, it'll also work out as great value.

IMHO, value is something you derive from your purchase, which goes beyond the intrinsic quality of the object, or the price paid.

smacl · 11-10-2011 10:11AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

haha thats gas we should do a bso downhill event, it would be hilarious with all the forks snapping in half and what not, body Armour mandatory

Uphill could be interesting too, the Wall anyone?

daithimacgroin · 11-10-2011 10:41AM

bought a 200e in china that would be worth 450 here
and the missus paid 100e for a bike, u'd easily pay 400 for here

bikes seem a bit overpriced in europe imo

tomasrojo · 11-10-2011 10:42AM

p wrote: »

2 points.

1. Most people here are sports cyclists. It's a hobby. Therefore we'll pay magnitudes more for bicycles. It's about value. If you don't cycle much, spending €200 quid on a bike is fine. Would €700 get you a better bike, sure, but for many people the would get more value spending that €500 differently.

2. There's one factor that is perhaps skewing the dutch results. Cargo Bikes. They start at 4 figures.

Funnily enough, I'm not a sports cyclist, and it's not a hobby. It's just my main way of getting around, and has been for a very long time. I have cycled quite a few very modest bikes, and only recently spent more than €500 on a bike (I still haven't crossed the one-thousand mark, as my most expensive bike was €999). However, I never went all the way down to the supermarket mountain bike stage -- more out of habit of buying from bike shops than out of any philosophy or prejudice. I've looked at some of these supermarket bikes since, having had to help out work colleagues with repairs, and they never would have been able to put up with daily use. They really are dreadful. Bottom-of-the-range Raleigh was as cheap as I went, and I suggest that that is as cheap as anyone should go: bottom-of-the-range of a respectable manufacturer.

I suspect you're right about the cargo bikes skewing the figure somewhat for the Netherlands. Perhaps the number of ancient hand-me-downs there also skews the figures, as I imagine they don't figure in the data at all.

seamus · 11-10-2011 10:46AM

p wrote: »

1. Most people here are sports cyclists. It's a hobby. Therefore we'll pay magnitudes more for bicycles. It's about value. If you don't cycle much, spending €200 quid on a bike is fine. Would €700 get you a better bike, sure, but for many people the would get more value spending that €500 differently.

The point is though that if you spend €200 on a bike, you won't cycle much. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Part of the problem is that to a certain extent we've become accustomed to things which "just work". If you buy an electronic product which breaks, you send it back and get a replacement. When it stops working after a few years, you just replace it. Even small mechanical items, like a toaster, are disposable. When's the last time you heard of anyone bothering to try fix their toaster?

Even cars have been designed to be more fault-tolerant. If something starts rattling, you send it into a garage, they fix everything up and you're on the trouble-free road for another 12,000 km.

Bikes are still that little bit more manual. Motorbikes are actually quite similar. They need attention. In everyday use, a bike will need to be looked at a couple of times per year at least. A BSO in constant use will start developing clicks and rattles after 200 KM and will need weekly attention after that, if the owner doesn't know how to look after it themselves.
This creates an impression that bikes are unreliable and troublesome, whereas cars aren't. When their €200 BSO breaks, it goes into the shed and rusts.

In other words, it's a false economy. In real terms, a €200 bike is the equivalent of a brand new car produced and sold for €4,000.
There are no cars sold at that price level. For good reason; They'd be **** and constantly breaking down.

2. There's one factor that is perhaps skewing the dutch results. Cargo Bikes. They start at 4 figures.

"Skewing" implies that cargo bikes shouldn't be included in the figures. But they should, which comes back to one of my points. Dutch people in cities see a cargo bike as a legitimate option to compare with a car. There is no reason why this should not be the case elsewhere, except for people's attitudes.

So this higher average is indicative of a total difference in attitude to bikes. It's not a "skewing" of the results at all, rather it's an accurate reflection of the value placed on bikes as a means of transportation. The lower the average price of the bike, the less a bike is considered seriously as a transport option in that country.

DirkVoodoo · 11-10-2011 11:01AM

seamus wrote: »

Even cars have been designed to be more fault-tolerant. If something starts rattling, you send it into a garage, they fix everything up and you're on the trouble-free road for another 12,000 km.

Interesting points Seamus. Did you know that BMW have removed the dipstick from their newer cars because the majority of owners wouldn't have a clue how to check their oil level. It's been replaced with a dashboard warning light that sends the customer to their local garage. Amazing!

Bikes are the same really, or at least the people who ride supermarket specials. Which is surprising to me, because my Dad bought one and he put himself through college by fixing cars. He picked up some God-awful POS that is sitting in a garage in the west of ireland. It's badly corroded, weighs a tonne and nothing on it works properly. The "suspension" is a cheap imitation of what a front for should look like. I couldn't believe he bought it, but in his mind it was cheap and it was only a bike for getting around on. No, it's a bike for rusting in the garage and it was a waste of 90 euro. Like Seamus said, these bikes are so bad, how can you possibly have a good impression of cycling after having been on one (I got as far as the end of the road before I gave up and started walking, and I hate to walk).

You can see it around town any day of the week: Barely functioning brakes, corroded frame and parts, wheels running almost flat. A lot of people who "just want something cheap to get around on" or not only riding something that must feel awful, but it probably a danger to themselves as well.

Like Murphy's law of combat states: Always keep in mind, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder.

Funsterdelux · 11-10-2011 11:15AM

I remember buying a "Malboro" oversized frame mountain bike with no suspension with my confirmation money(and a lot of begging) for £150 punt back in 1996.

I used to cycle it home from secondary school, 6 miles. For most of 1st year and sporadically until 5th year and then rear axle broke, luckily enough only a mile from home and pedal's came off half way home once too. They were to worst two incidents.

Now 150 punt I made a rough calculation is around €300, but that was back when there wasn't as much competition or choice. And it was one of if not the cheapest I could get at the time. So I can only imagine how bad a €190 bike is now. Like when you think about it and brake it down, it would be extremely difficult to buy really cheap parts to build your own bike for less than 190.

And like others have said here, there is probably something wrong with that bike. It pains me every day when I hear and see people with squeaky chains, rubbing brakes etc, they're rarely a decent brand. What happens if someone walks out in front of you and you brake but its not responsive enough and you do some damage!

I'm a kind-of "bike enthusiast" with a grá for old High Nellys and Raleighs. Now they were quality!

DirkVoodoo · 11-10-2011 11:29AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnMlxWL8ttQ

CramCycle · 11-10-2011 11:40AM

The first bike I bought in Dublin cost me 100euro, it was a 2nd hand racer with DT shifters. The wheels were worth about 90 and that was all the guy in the shop wanted money for. It went like a dream until some scummer put a hammer through the frame. You can get good bikes for cheap, they are just second hand. Had a BSO as well for a year for a 15km round trip, cost me 130euro, it done the job, saved me the cost of bus fare for a year. I then moved up to a BH racer for about 700(on sale), the difference was incredible, cut my commute in half.

If it does the job and it doesn't put you off cycling, then who cares. I agree with other posters in that I think you will find it cheaper and less stress in the long run but if your happy as is, then stay happy and ignore the negativity.

In relation to the thread, I presume the price of bikes includes all those cheap ones bought for 3 to 5 yo from Argos/Halfords etc which would explain part of the low price.

Tonyandthewhale · 11-10-2011 11:47AM

Cheap bikes put people off cycling in subtle ways. My housemate recently brought up a cheapo racing bike from home (a secura sequence), alloy frame, steel fork, quando hubs, 'bronx' 36 hole rims and a shimano tourney drivetrain with indexed downtube shifters. It's not great but it doesn't have off-road tyres or faux suspension so that's something.

He got it off his brother who doesn't use it much, and I can see why. So far I've had to sand down some nicks on the rims which were causing persistend punctures, the brakes also needed a lot of adjustment, the saddle is uncomfortable and was originally set way too low and at a crazy angle.
Most annoyingly, the handlebars are completely out of proportion to the frame with huge with and reach. This, combined with fairly poor bearings in the headset means the bike steers like a boat.
To a newbie there is no obvious sign that this bike is in any way less of a bike than one that might have cost twice or three times as much. Nothing has broken but the bike brings with it a sense that cycling must be something clumsy and uncomfortable with vague braking and constant punctures.

If the bike catastrophically failed it could be put down to a freak occurence, a bad buy and a lesson in thinking twice about 'bargains.' However, since the bike quietly ticks away most days (albeit uncomfortably) and does what it's supposed to do (so long as I keep an eye on it) then the impression is created that bikes work but they don't work great and aren't a serious alternative to cars.

scotty_irish · 11-10-2011 12:45PM

i bring this average waaaay down, £15 for a 90s raleigh off gumtree, works like a charm. And with the funky colour scheme, i probably don't even need to lock it around glasgow.

In my opinion the main purpose of a cheap bike is that it doesn't matter if it gets nicked. But, IMO and experience, the likes of aldi/halfords bikes are crap and will only give trouble. Second hand is the way to go, spend 200 on a second hand bike and you'll likely get something very decent for your money as older bikes are built to a much higher quality than any of the cheap crap sold in large stores.

Icyseanfitz · 11-10-2011 12:56PM

scotty_irish wrote: »

i bring this average waaaay down, £15 for a 90s raleigh off gumtree, works like a charm. And with the funky colour scheme, i probably don't even need to lock it around glasgow.

In my opinion the main purpose of a cheap bike is that it doesn't matter if it gets nicked. But, IMO and experience, the likes of aldi/halfords bikes are crap and will only give trouble. Second hand is the way to go, spend 200 on a second hand bike and you'll likely get something very decent for your money as older bikes are built to a much higher quality than any of the cheap crap sold in large stores.

:eek: one of my handlebar grips costs more than that

Undercover Elephant · 11-10-2011 01:01PM

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I couldn't believe he bought it, but in his mind it was cheap and it was only a bike for getting around on. No, it's a bike for rusting in the garage and it was a waste of 90 euro. Like Seamus said, these bikes are so bad, how can you possibly have a good impression of cycling after having been on one (I got as far as the end of the road before I gave up and started walking, and I hate to walk).

This. ^^^

Most people own bikes but most people don't use them. Why not? Lots of reasons, I think, but one of them is that it's simply not a pleasant experience riding a BSO.

A bike has around a thousand components. It's absurd to think that you can source decent parts, put it together properly, make a profit and pay your VAT for €200. The ones that don't turn to cheese are exceptions, as kona said about 4 pages back.

€350 is not expensive. It's about a year's motor tax for a 1.5l car. And with a bit of care it should last 10 years. That's €3 a month, no CTW scheme. OK, that's a bit misleading because it also needs some maintenance and occasional replacement parts - but a BSO will be worse. For €350 you can get a bike that's pleasant enough to ride 3000km a year, half of it with a child on the back, 8 years later - as long as you can ignore the aesthetics. I know because I do it.

OTOH, €200 is an expensive way not to cycle.

BostonB · 11-10-2011 01:04PM

My bicycle tyres were more expensive than my bike. My old 1990's MTB that I set up for commuting.

scotty_irish · 11-10-2011 01:06PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

:eek: one of my handlebar grips costs more than that

my previous £20 bike lasted a year of reasonably heavy use until it died by fire.

dave_o_brien · 11-10-2011 01:24PM

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

OTOH, €200 is an expensive way not to cycle.

I also agree with what DirkVoodoo said and Undercover Elephant quoted DirkVoodoo saying...

But also, to people who are talking about their €200 second hand bikes, that's very, very different to a €200 new bike. €200 second hand should get you something decent IF you know what you're looking for.

BostonB · 11-10-2011 02:15PM

scotty_irish wrote: »

my previous £20 bike lasted a year of reasonably heavy use until it died by fire.

Let hope Danny MacAskill isn't reading that, you'll give him idea's...

Average bike in Ireland only costs 190 euro

Comments