Is Sean Gallagher telling lies

CDfm · 10-10-2011 10:15PM

K-9 wrote: »

Gilmore joined the Workers Party in 1975. Could you actually spit out what your problem is rather than waffling on?

I do not have a problem & I posted IT pieces on Gilmore as a type of comparison or benchmark i.e . what constitutes a political lie.

And I and others have asked for an objective standard without suggesting that when it comes to SG or anything vaguely connected with FF that Raymon may not be the most impartial person in the world.

I am not an SG fan or at least wasn't even thinking of even giving him a transfer.

raymon · 10-10-2011 10:40PM

CDfm wrote: »

I do not have a problem & I posted IT pieces on Gilmore as a type of comparison or benchmark i.e . what constitutes a political lie.

And I and others have asked for an objective standard without suggesting that when it comes to SG or anything vaguely connected with FF that Raymon may not be the most impartial person in the world.

I am not an SG fan or at least wasn't even thinking of even giving him a transfer.

You have me all wrong , I dislike liars. I do not know Gallagher so I've nothing personal against him

Also I don't dislike all FFers. Just the dishonest ones

Go ahead and vote for Gallagher . I don't care what you do really

I don't vote for liars

K-9 · 10-10-2011 10:49PM

CDfm wrote: »

I do not have a problem & I posted IT pieces on Gilmore as a type of comparison or benchmark i.e . what constitutes a political lie.

And I and others have asked for an objective standard without suggesting that when it comes to SG or anything vaguely connected with FF that Raymon may not be the most impartial person in the world.

I am not an SG fan or at least wasn't even thinking of even giving him a transfer.

Fair enough. It seems odd he'd say he left the party in 09 but actively canvassed for a FF candidate in the Donegal bye election in 2010. Maybe he felt he was the best candidate but he needs to clarify it.

irishdude11 · 10-10-2011 11:16PM

K-9 wrote: »

Fair enough. It seems odd he'd say he left the party in 09 but actively canvassed for a FF candidate in the Donegal bye election in 2010. Maybe he felt he was the best candidate but he needs to clarify it.

Eh, he also campaigned for three FF candidates for the general election in Feb 2011. He must have given some great speeches in support of them as this is what the FF mayor of Castleblaney tweeted from one campaign launch - "Sean gallagher rallying the troops the atmosphere is electric"
http://twitter.com/#!/dfuncheon/status/33263452738957312

Good man Sean, out there rallying the troops in their hour of need. Up and down the length of the country campaigning for FFers to try and get them elected in the 2011 General Election. So he has been proven to be a complete liar.

jonniebgood1 · 10-10-2011 11:29PM

raymon wrote: »

I don't vote for liars

Do you know of many politicians that don't tell lies? You could end up never voting if that is your stance.

Liam Byrne · 10-10-2011 11:45PM

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

raymon wrote: »

I don't vote for liars

Do you know of many politicians that don't tell lies? You could end up never voting if that is your stance.

It narrows the options alright, but until some people stop excusing lies and voting regardless we'll never get rid of the liars.

If people stop excusing liars and voting for them, they'll realise it's not tolerated.

I notice that you've gone from denying the lie to implying "they're all at it" - do we assume that there's a reason for your change of tack ?

raymon · 11-10-2011 12:08AM

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Do you know of many politicians that don't tell lies? You could end up never voting if that is your stance.

The president should not be a proven liar like Gallagher. Who else apart from mc Guinness is a liar????

CDfm · 11-10-2011 01:27AM

realies wrote: »

Not only is proinsias a sticky he was also convicted & imprisoned of IRA membership, he was also interned in the curragh after he got out, wonder if that's why labour are keeping quietish about MMG, People in glass houses etc etc.

No doubt about it.

Scofflaw · 11-10-2011 01:41AM

There is no point reporting posts by the OP claiming that the OP is 'back seat moderating' by calling for people to remain on topic. That's entirely acceptable behaviour for an OP.

You know who you are.

moderately,
Scofflaw

raymon · 11-10-2011 08:27AM

As I said this thread is about whether Sean Gallagher lied about his recent involvement in FF.

Attempts to derail the thread by talking about workers party , IRA commanders , gilmore , Martin mc Guinness, labour party etc. are off topic

Zubeneschamali · 11-10-2011 08:37AM

CDfm wrote: »

that is hardly the Parlimentary Party.

Are you actually suggesting that Gallagher could only be described as an active member of Fianna Fáil if he was in the Parliamentary party?

From the Fianna Fáil website:

ARD CHOMHAIRLE
The senior unit within Fianna Fáil is the Ard Chomhairle (National Executive) It meets every month and is responsible for dealing with all matters not provided for in the Corú. When the Ard Fheis is not in session the Ard Chomhairle is the supreme governing body of the Party. The Ard Chomhairle consists of a representative from every CDC (48 people) as well as 5 Councillor Representatives, 5 Parliamentary Party members, 3 Government (front bench) representatives 6 Ógra representative and group known as the committee of 20 which is elected at the Ard Fheis.

Séan Gallagher was one of those 48 people in January.

CDfm · 11-10-2011 08:47AM

raymon wrote: »

As I said this thread is about whether Sean Gallagher lied about his recent involvement in FF.

Attempts to derail the thread by talking about workers party , IRA commanders , gilmore , Martin mc Guinness, labour party etc. are off topic

If you say so raymon but it was you who just laid into MMG, so you opened the door for comment and I quoted another poster..

raymon wrote: »

The president should not be a proven liar like Gallagher. Who else apart from mc Guinness is a liar????

raymon · 11-10-2011 09:06AM

CDfm wrote: »

If you say so raymon but it was you who just laid into MMG, so you opened the door for comment and I quoted another poster..

I was answering a direct question from another poster .

Please stop trying to derail the thread .

If you have something useful to say regarding Sean Gallagher lying or not please do so.
If you want to talk about the workers party you should open another discussion elsewhere

CDfm · 11-10-2011 09:09AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Are you actually suggesting that Gallagher could only be described as an active member of Fianna Fáil if he was in the Parliamentary party?

Merely suggesting for balance that that was where the real power was.

The OP takes swipes at MMG but ignores the Labour Party's own Sinn Fein genepool.

If SG is enfranchising youth, from a maybe defunct organisation for all I know, in democratic politics it is a good thing.

Thats me out of this stiffling debate.

Zubeneschamali · 11-10-2011 09:15AM

CDfm wrote: »

Merely suggesting for balance that that was where the real power was.

Pointing at something irrelevant is not "balance", it is an attempt to distract from the plain fact that Gallagher lied, deliberately and with the intent of misleading people who would not vote for him if they knew the truth.

edanto · 11-10-2011 09:49AM

If there is anyone here from the SG campaign team, do you think you might be able to answer the question?

What are the start and end dates of his FF membership?

Again, he has the right to be a member of any party he wants, I just don't like being lied to about it.

jonniebgood1 · 11-10-2011 10:13AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Pointing at something irrelevant is not "balance", it is an attempt to distract from the plain fact that Gallagher lied, deliberately and with the intent of misleading people who would not vote for him if they knew the truth.

I know I said I was withdrawing from this nonsense but I must point out that if this is such a plain fact then why can noone here clearly and unequivocally show it? To claim:

plain fact that Gallagher lied, deliberately and with the intent of misleading people

without clearly showing it is a joke.

edanto · 11-10-2011 10:25AM

Personally, for me, it's already proven that he deceived.

The facts are that he said "I left any involvement in Fianna Fáil in terms of being a member of the party or being active back in 2009."

Also facts are that he was at the Ogra conferenence in 2010, he was a member of National Executive until 2011 and he was campaigning for FF in 2011, 'rallying the troops' in the words of another FFer.

At this point it comes down to judgement - NOT SEMANTICS. I judge that his quote above is misleading and deceptive in the context of the facts above. You are obviously free to draw whatever conclusion you prefer.

I would like to add more information to this debate, but unfortunately the SG office will not answer my questions about the dates his FF membership began and lapsed on.

I have a gut feeling he is still a member, which is why he is avoiding the question.

irishdude11 · 11-10-2011 11:24AM

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

I know I said I was withdrawing from this nonsense but I must point out that if this is such a plain fact then why can noone here clearly and unequivocally show it? To claim: without clearly showing it is a joke.

I have shown it multiple times and it is clear as day. You can try and muddy the waters and act as if there is some confusion on the issue all you like, but I will just post up the facts everytime.

Here is evidence of his lies -

1. Gallagher said - I left any involvement in Fianna Fáil in terms of being a member of the party or being active back in 2009.
2. Gallagher threw his weight behind several FF candidates to try and get them elected by officially launching their campaigns in February 2011. So that means he was active.

Those statements cant be reconciled. He is liar, there is no confusion over this. He was up and down the length of the country campaigning for at least 3 FF candidates at the last election.

Why has no journalist put these facts to him yet? There is no room for manouever on this one. If there are any journalists reading this please show his true colors to the nation by highlighting these facts in the national media.

Zubeneschamali · 11-10-2011 11:31AM

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

why can noone here clearly and unequivocally show it?

We have shown the lies in black and white. How can someone who "left any involvement in Fianna Fáil in terms of being a member of the party or being active back in 2009" be a member of that party's Executive Council in 2011?

How, in resigning from the council (but not the party) can he express his continued support for the party in 2011? How can he launch the general election campaigns of three of that party's candidates in 2011?

KELTICKNIGHTT · 11-10-2011 11:46AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

We have shown the lies in black and white. How can someone who "left any involvement in Fianna Fáil in terms of being a member of the party or being active back in 2009" be a member of that party's Executive Council in 2011?

How, in resigning from the council (but not the party) can he express his continued support for the party in 2011? How can he launch the general election campaigns of three of that party's candidates in 2011?

show facts please and show us if anyone of canidates didn't lie about something

Zubeneschamali · 11-10-2011 12:07PM

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

show facts please

Fact 1) Gallagher clearly said that he left FF in 2009. He even gave reasons why he left, claiming that he thought the party had lost touch with the people. The verbatim quotes are upthread.

Fact 2) He was a member of FF in January. In fact, he was one of just 48 local cumann reps on the Ard Comhairle, the supreme governing body of the party, in January.

Fact 2 means Gallagher was lying in Fact 1.

I love this statement from a campaign spokesman:

"Any suggestion that Sean has got his dates mixed up is completely false."

We're not saying he got mixed up, dude, we're saying he deliberately lied to fool people into thinking he was an independent.

hoorsmelt · 11-10-2011 12:14PM

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Where has he been dishonest. I have heard him on many occasions say that he has supported FF.
Do you think he is denying that he supported FF?

He has been dishonest in his inferrals that he was a casual member who drifted in and out, and that he is now an independent. You don't get to the National Exec by being a drifter, you need serious contacts at the very highest level and a well documented history of commitment and devotion,to the party that goes above and beyond what is expected of your average card carrying member. His ties to FF run extraordinarily deep, his attempt to muddy this and subsequent statements that he has cut his ties (with no evidence to prove that he is no longer a FF member), along with reports from different parts of the country (Limerick, Louth among others) that the local FF cumainn have mobilised in his support, I would be very wary of believing anything he says about being an independent. He is nothing of the sort.

edanto · 11-10-2011 12:14PM

Sean Gallagher's Facebook wrote:

I joined Ogra FF in my native Cavan when I was a teenager. I have been a member of the party on and off over succeeding years but was effectively not involved between about 1993 and 2007.
I helped Seamus Kirk in his campaign in Louth in 2007. I was appointed to the FF National Executive in 2009, attended two meetings (June and December 2009) and then verbally informed the party headquarters I was stepping down (September 2010). I formally wrote resigning in January 2011.
I was a member for a period of Ravensdale FF Cumann outside Dundalk but resigned from the Cumann on March 1st, 2010. Best wishes, Seán

Well now - I am very grateful to have gotten this answer from SG. He clarifies things about his FF membership and involvement, and to my mind clears up many questions that I had.

I see now that his quote of last week about leaving FF in 2009 was wrong, he didn't. But at least he is being forthcoming now and giving all the details.

I've also had a look at his current and previous directorships and he doesn't seem to have anything particularly dodgy or seedy.

I like him and hope that he stays in politics for many years.

Zubeneschamali · 11-10-2011 12:35PM

From his January letter:

It has, in recent times, proved increasingly difficult for me to attend CDC meetings, and so, in the interest of allowing someone else to take up the position, I am regrettably resigning as constituency delegate"

But according to Gallagher's latest story, he resigned from his local cumann in 2010. So here he is, no longer even a member of the party in January, and he writes that the reason he's stepping down from the Ard Chomhairle is that he doesn't have time to attend meetings? He also expresses "continued support to you and your colleagues in this challenging period for the party’", and gets out to launch the campaigns of 3 FF candidates in the general election after those dates.

In this article, it's stated that the CDC of Louth formally inquired last summer about having him removed for being a bad representative on the Ard Chomhairle and attending only 2 meetings. Why on earth would they do that if he had already formally left the party? They would certainly mention that fact in trying to arrange a new representative!

Sorry Sean, it doesn't add up. What that January letter tells me is that you were still a member (and probably still are), and that you didn't have time for that particular executive council position.

New question for Sean: when did you last pay membership dues to Fianna Fáil. My guess: you are still a paid up member.

Sean: "Oops, I forgot to cancel the Direct Debit!"

jonniebgood1 · 11-10-2011 12:54PM

edanto wrote: »

Well now - I am very grateful to have gotten this answer from SG. He clarifies things about his FF membership and involvement, and to my mind clears up many questions that I had.

I see now that his quote of last week about leaving FF in 2009 was wrong, he didn't. But at least he is being forthcoming now and giving all the details.

I've also had a look at his current and previous directorships and he doesn't seem to have anything particularly dodgy or seedy.

I like him and hope that he stays in politics for many years.

Well done for some actual proper research into this.
Thanks.

irishdude11 · 11-10-2011 01:07PM

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Well done for some actual proper research into this.
Thanks.

Here is some research I did, no need to thank me -

1. Gallagher said - I left any involvement in Fianna Fáil in terms of being a member of the party or being active back in 2009.
2. Gallagher threw his weight behind several FF candidates to try and get them elected by officially launching their campaigns in February 2011. So that means he was active. He gave such a stirring Pro-FF speech at one campaign that the FF mayor of Castleblaney tweeted "Sean gallagher rallying the troops the atmosphere is electric." - http://twitter.com/#!/dfuncheon/status/33263452738957312

Those statements cant be reconciled. He is liar, there is no confusion over this. He was up and down the length of the country campaigning for at least 3 FF candidates at the last election. So cut the bull, it has been proven days ago that he was lying about his FF activity since 2009. Every single time someone tries to muddy the waters by acting as if there is any confusion on this I will repost these FACTS.

raymon · 11-10-2011 01:10PM

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

Well done for some actual proper research into this.
Thanks.

None of this adds up ,

irishdude11 · 11-10-2011 01:18PM

By the way, seeing as how he was no longer a FF member, why was he 'considering it' when questioned about running in the general election for FF? - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1011/1224305578336.html

Also, from the same article in today's Irish Times -

Mr Gallagher appeared on platforms in support of Fianna Fáil candidates and the new leader of the party Micheál Martin during the general election campaign. He launched the campaign of Mayo TD Dara Calleary in Ballina and also appeared at campaign rallies for Donegal North East TD Charlie McConalogue and for the former TD Margaret Conlon in Co Monaghan. He also made an appearance with Mr Martin on the campaign trail.

And now we know that not only he was campaigning for the previously mentioned FF candidates, he was actually out on the campaign trail with Mehole Martin. This is the final disgrace. There can absolutely zero confusion now that he was 'active' or 'involved', when the guy was out with the frigging party leader campaigning for votes.

irishdude11 · 11-10-2011 01:28PM

By the way guys, does anyone know if Bertie Ahern was ever actually a member of Fianna Fail? I know he was leader for 14 years and was Finance Minister, etc.. before that, but does anyone know if he actually was a member of Fianna Fail? Same with Brian Cowen, does anyone actually know for sure if he was ever actually a part of the Fianna Fail party? Or did he just happen to find himself in the position of Taoiseach one day?

This Sean Gallagher situation has me questioning whether anyone has ever actually been a member of FF or was the whole thing just a figment of our imagination?

Is Sean Gallagher telling lies

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