Sweet Jesus, are we REALLY that strapped for cash?

Speak Now · 10-10-2011 11:39AM

I thought the free nappies for childen with special needs only kicks in a 3 years of age as it's only then the extra expense of not being toilet trained occurs. 62 per month i think.

danniemcq · 10-10-2011 11:39AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You'd have a big uproar about how the HSE are expecting these poor downtrodden people to live in inhumane dickensian conditions. The outrage commitee would be all over that.

How would that be inhumane? washing cloth nappies? thats the point of them.

and a quick google search reveals the savings:

Cost comparisons:

Real Nappies £300-£450 approx depending on the brands used. This includes the nappies plus washing costs (electricity, water, washing powder) up to potty training.
Disposable nappies £700 -£900 per child.

EDIT
or did you mean the sindo looking for stories

mconigol · 10-10-2011 11:42AM

danniemcq wrote: »

How would that be inhumane? washing cloth nappies? thats the point of them.

and a quick google search reveals the savings:

Cost comparisons:

Real Nappies £300-£450 approx depending on the brands used. This includes the nappies plus washing costs (electricity, water, washing powder) up to potty training.
Disposable nappies £700 -£900 per child.

I was born in the 80's and I'm pretty sure my parents used cloth nappies. Didn't do me a bit of harm.

although I do go through 4 or 5 pairs of boxers a day now...:pac:

dearg lady · 10-10-2011 11:43AM

mariaalice wrote: »

Why do you have the rights that you have, why do you get money every month just because you have children why don't you have to prove you need it! and be judged on how you spent you money.

Why do you have a RIGHT to Child benefit.

who has a right to child benefit?

ejmaztec · 10-10-2011 11:43AM

dearg lady wrote: »

well tbh, why are they ENTITLED? As I said above, I'm glad they get help but on earth are they entitled to anything?

They're entitled because of the bad press about what happened in the past, where kids with special needs probably got shoved in an institution and were treated like dogs for the rest of their lives.

dearg lady · 10-10-2011 11:46AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

They're entitled because of the bad press about what happened in the past, where kids with special needs probably got shoved in an institution and were treated like dogs for the rest of their lives.

I disagree. No one is entitled to any extra help from the state.

abouttobebanned · 10-10-2011 11:46AM

mconigol wrote: »

What about reusable nappies? How did people survive before disposable nappies?

FFS did you even read the thread? Every second person has suggested reusable nappies.

Lollipops23 · 10-10-2011 11:46AM

ejmaztec wrote: »

They're entitled because of the bad press about what happened in the past, where kids with special needs probably got shoved in an institution and were treated like dogs for the rest of their lives.

....? While that's awful and I'm glad we live in a more sane and humane country now, that has zero to do with this debate.

Joey the lips · 10-10-2011 11:48AM

With due respect to the poster. Its nice to highlight the post but its written by the papers and quoted incorrectly.

Anyone with a special needs child(Myself included) is assed to see how much they are using. If they are using more than 4-6 a day it must be signed off. This is a good procedure and it stops them being used for other kids or sold.

My child uses an adverage of 1 an hour so my allowence had to be increased. There was no problem with this.

I am happier they check.

Hobbes · 10-10-2011 11:54AM

dearg lady wrote: »

well tbh, why are they ENTITLED? As I said above, I'm glad they get help but on earth are they entitled to anything?

Well you see if you give children training/extra resources earlier in life they become less of a burden on the state as they get older (most of the time). Granted some will never get better, but they tend to be a smaller amount.

As to why is she entitled? Because it is in our laws. She would have been means tested and allocated resources based on the severity of the condition.

This normally requires getting reviewed by 4-5 professionals before any money is released.

dearg lady · 10-10-2011 11:58AM

Hobbes wrote: »

Well you see if you give children training/extra resources earlier in life they become less of a burden on the state as they get older (most of the time). Granted some will never get better, but they tend to be a smaller amount.

As to why is she entitled? Because it is in our laws. She would have been means tested and allocated resources based on the severity of the condition.

This normally requires getting reviewed by 4-5 professionals before any money is released.

sorry, my point is that these laws can change at any time, currently they are getting a certain amount of helkp but this could change in any budget, therefore they're not 'entitled' to this indefinetely.

If you read my other posts, you'll see I'm glad that there is extra support for children with special needs, but I just get irritated by people thinking they are entitled to so much. the state will help as much as possible, but there will always be a lot for individuals to contribute.

Riddle101 · 10-10-2011 11:58AM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Well clearly you live in the real world :rolleyes:

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to supply everything a special needs child requires? This is money that just isn't there, plain and simple. You can bitch and moan and beat your chest, but it won't change that.

There's more to this world then money you know. I'm sure it may cost more, but let's rememeber that they are special needs. Are you seriously saying that this kid is not entitled to any of that. It's not exactly cheap for the family either you know. Especially since they have other kids in the house too.

Plus I think you'll find the bitching and moanining is going both ways here, so it's quite an irrelevant thing to say.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Of course some people are giving a counter arguement. It's ok to question stuff.Is there a credile reason why the state should automatically be responsible for providing the child with all the nappies they need? What about people without special needs kids, is it not possible some of them are struggling just as badly?

I'm not saying people with normal kids aren't struggling. But it's not like we can help it, if a kid with special needs, is a demanding task and get's preferential treatment over another kid who dosen't have Special needs. All I know is, there's a family who is asking for a few extra nappies for their kid, and I think it's not such a terrible thing for them to maybe add 2 more if it will help the child.

Exactly, including the people screaming disgrace. They could well be able to afford the nappies but choose to spend the money on other things. But it seems its ok to jump on something as long as your taking the side of the percieved victim.

Again, we don't know anything about the family's financial backround so we have no idea about the situation. That just leads to assumptions which aren't exactly credible.

As for taking the side of the percieved victim. It seems the only victim in this is the child, because while this is going down it can't be any easier for him. Are we that judgemental that we should be considering denying a kid with special needs? Maybe we should deny them other things, like schools for special needs children. I mean it costs a fortune to build those, and we have plenty of normal schools that could run special needs classes. It might be less costly. But anyway i've said my beef. It dosen't matter who the percieved victim is, it's still a very touchy topic to be judgmental about.

HellFireClub · 10-10-2011 12:03PM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Well clearly you live in the real world :rolleyes:

Do you have any idea how much it would cost to supply everything a special needs child requires? This is money that just isn't there, plain and simple. You can bitch and moan and beat your chest, but it won't change that.

Rubbish, the money is there all right, it's just being p*ssed about all over the place and used to pacify overpaid teachers, public sector paper pushers, politicians, those who work in quango's, Bertie Ahern's phone bills, and the likes...

That family quoted in the OP should write to Jack O' Connor in SIPTU and ask him to pay for the extra nappies that she needs. Because that's another place where the Irish taxpayers money is also being squandered and p*ssed about all around the place, into slush funds for SIPTU, MONEY THAT STILL HAS TO BE PROPERLY ACCOUNTED FOR AND RETURNED TO THE TAXPAYER I MIGHT ADD.

ejmaztec · 10-10-2011 12:07PM

dearg lady wrote: »

I disagree. No one is entitled to any extra help from the state.

Sorry to disappoint, but people are entitled, or they wouldn't get it.

Lollipops23 wrote: »

....? While that's awful and I'm glad we live in a more sane and humane country now, that has zero to do with this debate.

I disagree.

dearg lady · 10-10-2011 12:22PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint, but people are entitled, or they wouldn't get it.

well apparently not, since there's a newspaper article about their so called 'entitlements' being withdrawn. The point is they can be withdrawn or changed at any time, so they're not really entitlements

ejmaztec · 10-10-2011 12:28PM

dearg lady wrote: »

well apparently not, since there's a newspaper article about their so called 'entitlements' being withdrawn. The point is they can be withdrawn or changed at any time, so there not really entitlements

If they weren't entitled, they wouldn't get any at all.

dearg lady · 10-10-2011 12:32PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

If they weren't entitled, they wouldn't get any at all.

:rolleyes: perhaps we have a different understanding of the word.
Anyway, I'm out, this debate, like so many, goes in circles.

martic · 10-10-2011 12:35PM

As a parent of a child with a severe disability I can't help but comment on this thread. For starters I expect nothing from anyone, we were the people that decided to have our son so in my eyes we are the people who should supply for him, but that's all good in the perfect world, the simple fact is if I was to pay for everything that my son needs I would need to be earning the same pay as a hard working politician or banker. My son is nearly in his teens and is still using pull up pants and will be for the rest of his life, the ones that are provided by the HSE are no good at bed time as they leak so any morning if as a last resort we have to put them on him after running out of the special ones we buy ourselves his bed is soaked and so far we have had to replace his mattress on a number of occasions. As was stated before anything that we get of the HSE is means tested. We have also heard that the provision of free nappies to children with special needs could be stopping in the future so that may come as good news to some of the posters on here.

Just a note on me as I don't want people to think I'm a sponger for availing of free nappies, I've worked since I was 16 years of age and have always paid my taxes as has my wife. We have both been involved in raising money for charities involving children with special needs and so far between the 2 of us we have raised ten's of thousands of euro which goes to equipment that the HSE can't afford to buy but will make helping these children a lot easier for people that works with them.

10-10-2011 12:36PM

Look I am not a fan of the type of welfare provision we have in Ireland, yes there has to be checks and balances in every system.

Yes the story is presented in a sensationalist way.

I am responding to the people who come on here and are outraged that the parent is asking for more nappies and I feel it is further evidence of the emergence of a sort of nasty undercurrent in Irish society.

ejmaztec · 10-10-2011 12:49PM

dearg lady wrote: »

:rolleyes: perhaps we have a different understanding of the word.
Anyway, I'm out, this debate, like so many, goes in circles.

It still seems to mean the same as it did when I first saw the word:

1. Distribution or exercise of an absolute privilege or right to an economic benefit (such as old age pension, social security, unemployment stipend) granted by contract or law, automatically upon meeting the required qualification

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/entitlement.html

10-10-2011 12:54PM

I have just though of something else, if you live in the UK and you are Joe blogs and are on benefits or if you are sir Bumbly Fumbly multi millionaire you are entitled to free G.P. care they don't ask you to prove you need it, you are entitled to it, but the idea of someone being entitled to anything seems to enrage people here.

Temptamperu · 10-10-2011 01:00PM

mariaalice wrote: »

I have just though of something else, if you live in the UK and you are Joe blogs and are on benefits or if you are sir bumbly fumbly multi millionaire you are entitled to free G.P. care they don't ask you to prove you need it, you are entitled to it, but the idea of someone being entitled to anything seems to enrage people here.

But they have a socialist health care system, we in Ireland do not.

wolfmoon87 · 10-10-2011 01:13PM

martic wrote: »

My son is nearly in his teens and is still using pull up pants and will be for the rest of his life, the ones that are provided by the HSE are no good at bed time as they leak so any morning if as a last resort we have to put them on him after running out of the special ones we buy ourselves his bed is soaked and so far we have had to replace his mattress on a number of occasions.

Thanks for the input martic. It's good to hear from someone who this issue actually has an effect on.

Can I make a suggestion that you buy a rubber sheet to go over the mattress. It will save you the cost of a new mattress. My mum used to use one for the bed-wetters at home.

Lollipops23 · 10-10-2011 01:27PM

martic wrote: »

As a parent of a child with a severe disability I can't help but comment on this.

Great post from someone dealing with this on a daily basis. We can debate the ethics/morals/theories of this topic til the cows come home, but none of us can understand it til we've been there.

Can I just say, to the posters harping on and on and on about the money being spent on bankers/politicians/trade unionists, we all know this is an issue. It doesn't help the OP for you to go on about it, unless you've been living under a rock everyone is aware of it.

Even if the HSE wasn't in such a shambles I'd be questioning whether they should supply absolutely everything, just because there's nowhere to draw the line.

Asssitence= absolutely, parents of special needs kids need something to take the pressure off.
Every piece of equipment needed= no, it's just not realistic.

Half of these posters don't live in the real world at all.

Wompa1 · 10-10-2011 01:31PM

mariaalice wrote: »

I have just though of something else, if you live in the UK and you are Joe blogs and are on benefits or if you are sir Bumbly Fumbly multi millionaire you are entitled to free G.P. care they don't ask you to prove you need it, you are entitled to it, but the idea of someone being entitled to anything seems to enrage people here.

It's not so much the idea of someone being entitled to something. She is entitled to 4 nappies a day as is anyone else with a child with disabilities. If you read the language and way the story is written e.g.

"It's shameful the way he and other children like Sean are being treated. We feel that the HSE feels that our child is not worth more than four nappies a day.

"As Sean's mother I'm not taking that. It's a basic human right.

"Some pen pusher within the HSE has made a decision that they need to make cutbacks and the most vulnerable have been affected. It's not right.

They are entitled to 4 nappies a day. If you complain on the grounds about being entitled to such and such and that's basic human rights..why? You are entitled to the oppurtunity of living here and trying to make a living for yourself, everything else. Social Welfare is an additional service being paid for and provided to you via public funding, it's not an entitlement.

Tayla · 10-10-2011 01:35PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

So it was the single mothers fault last week and now back to the disabled this week

All the while the ones who caused this disaster walk away into the sunset with pockets full of gold

I am developing a real hatred for this state:mad:

I feel the same, I love Ireland and wanted my kids to grow up here but now I really am starting to hate it.

Some of the comments here are disgraceful, Life is often extremely difficult for families of kids with disabilities and you want to deny them basic hygiene items. Families rely on help with these items for all sorts of reasons. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

As someone else mentioned already, the state finds the money to pay Bertie's phone bills..... the government need to get their priorities straight.

Wompa1 · 10-10-2011 01:38PM

Tayla wrote: »

I feel the same, I love Ireland and wanted my kids to grow up here but now I really am starting to hate it.

Some of the comments here are disgraceful, Life is often extremely difficult for families of kids with disabilities and you want to deny them basic hygiene items. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

As someone else mentioned already, the state finds the money to pay Bertie's phone bills..... the government need to get their priorities straight.

Nobody is denying them basic hygiene items. Come on!...28 nappies a week. If the child needs more the parents can buy them. It's as though these nappies are the only welfare assistance the family is getting. Which I'd bet a steak dinner they are getting more.

Plazaman · 10-10-2011 01:38PM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Can I just say, to the posters harping on and on and on about the money being spent on bankers/politicians/trade unionists, we all know this is an issue. It doesn't help the OP for you to go on about it, unless you've been living under a rock everyone is aware of it.

Hard to ignore it and not talk about it when you see shít like THIS

Wompa1 · 10-10-2011 01:40PM

Plazaman wrote: »

Hard to ignore it and not talk about it when you see shít like THIS

That's a good case to scrutinize public spending more.

Lollipops23 · 10-10-2011 01:42PM

Tayla wrote: »

I feel the same, I love Ireland and wanted my kids to grow up here but now I really am starting to hate it.

Some of the comments here are disgraceful, Life is often extremely difficult for families of kids with disabilities and you want to deny them basic hygiene items. Families rely on help with these items for all sorts of reasons. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

As someone else mentioned already, the state finds the money to pay Bertie's phone bills..... the government need to get their priorities straight.

for goodness sake, nobody wants them DENIED the items, just that they should be able to contribute towards them!!

Sweet Jesus, are we REALLY that strapped for cash?

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