Man who committed minor offence seeks freedom from Mental Institution after 25 years

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 04:55AM #1

This dude was kept for quater of a ****ing century because some quack(s) decided he represented a "threat" to society. At least if you murder someone, you might have some idea of if/when you get out. Imagine being kept in a locked facility for such a long time under mere opinion.

A closed consensus does not represent justice, it represents oppression. This really is beyond criminal.

I am actually gobsmacked at this. Forensic psychiatrist? Don't make me laugh. What a farce. Science my balls.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/historic-hearing-begins-into-broadmoor-patient-seeking-his-freedom-2362090.html

im invisible · 05-10-2011 05:12AM

He was first brought to Broadmoor in 1986 after pleading guilty to two counts of attempted wounding.

"My clinical view is that Mr Haines is presenting with paranoid psychosis, in the sense that his preoccupation with the injustice he believes the psychiatric system has caused him is out of proportion with reality," Dr Romero-Urcelay said. "He believes that we are persecuting him".

fu(k sake...

Chuck Stone · 05-10-2011 05:28AM

"My clinical view is that Mr Haines is presenting with paranoid psychosis, in the sense that his preoccupation with the injustice he believes the psychiatric system has caused him is out of proportion with reality," Dr Romero-Urcelay said. "He believes that we are persecuting him".

In a statement given to the tribunal, Mr Haines explained: "I am labelled as having a mental disorder which I do not accept. So long as I am in a psychiatric setting I will be seen as a patient who needs treatment. Everything I do or say will be interpreted on this basis."

'If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail'.
Abraham Maslow

AlmightyCushion · 05-10-2011 06:08AM

"I am labelled as having a mental disorder which I do not accept. So long as I am in a psychiatric setting I will be seen as a patient who needs treatment. Everything I do or say will be interpreted on this basis." He said through his representative, Bob, a sock puppet who Mr Haines believes is the reincarnated spirit of Napoleon Bonaparte.

05-10-2011 06:18AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

"I am labelled as having a mental disorder which I do not accept. So long as I am in a psychiatric setting I will be seen as a patient who needs treatment. Everything I do or say will be interpreted on this basis." He said through his representative, Bob, a sock puppet who Mr Haines believes is the reincarnated spirit of Napoleon Bonaparte.

Spat coffee onto my laptop just there.

Bravo sir.

Oranage2 · 05-10-2011 06:27AM

Its good to hear a happy ending. It only took 27 years to cure the guy that must of took a lot of perseverance and patience from the fine doctors! Everything is possible these days.

Icyseanfitz · 05-10-2011 06:29AM

bit crazy alright, hope he gets out seeing as he has spent half his life in there (tbh that would nearly drive anyone a bit crazy)

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 06:41AM

In fairness they are at the forefront of "Discovery" and all that jazz that dwarfs the minds of mere simpletons like ourselves. Gotta love gems like:

Al Frances says something that seems to surprise even him. Just now, for instance, in the predawn darkness of his comfortable, rambling home in Carmel, California, he has broken off his exercise routine to declare that “there is no definition of a mental disorder. It’s bull****

"Allen Frances, lead editor of the fourth edition of the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (universally known as the DSM-IV), the guy who wrote the book on mental illness, confessing that “these concepts are virtually impossible to define precisely with bright lines at the boundaries.” For the first time in two days, the conversation comes to an awkward halt."

Lordy - http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/12/ff_dsmv/all/1

4leto · 05-10-2011 07:32AM

With the battery of observational evidence on psychopaths and deviants we will probably get more of this.

What do you do? just suppose you have 2 kids which have a high probability of committing a school mass murder. Or a person who wishes to martyr themselves. Or you diagnosed the paranoid narcissism of Anders Behring Breivik before he committed that act. Or you had in your care someone who may hurt a child.

But that is the problem you can't keep someone locked up because they might commit a crime. So I am sure there is more to this case then meets the eye. But I don't know, maybe it was just a case of someone trapped in a system.

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 08:09AM

4leto wrote: »

But that is the problem you can't keep someone locked up because they might commit a crime. So I am sure there is more to this case then meets the eye. But I don't know, maybe it was just a case of someone trapped in a system.

Tell that to the godlike Psychiatric profession. The people that put him there should be locked up instead to be honest. This is a miscarriage of justice for sure. No wonder people put such little faith into the mental health system with cases like the above coming to light. I feel sick.

4leto · 05-10-2011 08:25AM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Tell that to the godlike Psychiatric profession. The people that put him there should be locked up instead to be honest. This is a miscarriage of justice for sure. No wonder people put such little faith into the mental health system with cases like the above coming to light. I feel sick.

Godlike maybe but also responsible and perhaps liable.

What if he was a potential mass murderer, what then?

I am not condoning what happened, the physciatric industry is quackery most the time, but they can only work with what they know.

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 08:30AM

4leto wrote: »

Godlike maybe but also responsible and perhaps liable.

What if he was a potential mass murderer, what then?

I am not condoning what happened, the physciatric industry is quackery most the time, but they can only work with what they know.

Being held indefinitely without any sort of due process available to non psychiatric criminals is the criminal part of this case.

4leto · 05-10-2011 08:41AM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Being held indefinitely without any sort of due process available to non psychiatric criminals is the criminal part of this case.

I agree, but I have no idea how you would fix it. The russians use to do this all the time, lock up their dissidents in "mental institutions" and not very nice ones. There were also abuses in America with mental health institutions right up to the 70s. So its easy to abuse and a threat to our liberties somewhere down the road.

You could give them a court proceeding but the opinions of the court would be influenced by the doctors treating the patient who of course could be easily corrupted.

There was a good film based on a true story staring Angelina Jolie "Changeling" which depicts well how bad things could get and in a democracy.

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 08:53AM

"You will conform"

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 10:16AM

Is belief in religion a mental illness yet? It should not be. Every person has a fundamental right to believe what they want. This should not be compromised.

reprazant · 05-10-2011 10:22AM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Tell that to the godlike Psychiatric profession. The people that put him there should be locked up instead to be honest. This is a miscarriage of justice for sure. No wonder people put such little faith into the mental health system with cases like the above coming to light. I feel sick.

So if gets released and then promptly kills 10 kids, who is at fault then?

Just because he believes he is not a danger to himself or others, does not mean that he is not.

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 10:34AM

reprazant wrote: »

So if gets released and then promptly kills 10 kids, who is at fault then?

Just because he believes he is not a danger to himself or others, does not mean that he is not.

Last time I checked, he didn't kill anybody. The decision as to whether he represents a danger to society is a criminal matter, not a Psychiatric one. Hitler knew what he was doing.

US psychiatrist Daniel Carlat of Tufts University in Boston says: “There is no question that among the medical professions, psychiatry is the most scientifically primitive. We have no more than a rudimentary understanding of the pathophysiology of mental illness and we have resorted to tenuous and ever-shifting theories of how our treatments work.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sciencetoday/2011/0811/1224302221300.html

What the above in mind, do you not think that maybe, just maybe, these "Doctors" could be wrong?

Statistician · 05-10-2011 10:41AM

I'm aware of someone who was put into a mental institution in Ireland in their early teens for petty theft. They are still there now (50-60 years later), and will probably die there.
They've long become institutionalised.

StephenHendry · 05-10-2011 10:49AM

reminds me of the film one flew over the cuckoo's nest where jack nicholsons characters pretends to be crazy to stay in there

Son Of A Vidic · 05-10-2011 10:50AM

"My clinical view is that Mr Haines is presenting with paranoid psychosis, in the sense that his preoccupation with the injustice he believes the psychiatric system has caused him is out of proportion with reality," Dr Romero-Urcelay said. "He believes that we are persecuting him".

His preoccupation with the injustice? That has got to be one of the craziest things I have ever read. Maybe his 'preoccupation' is merely a reactive symptom of the disgraceful injustice he has suffered? What a complete idiot!

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 10:58AM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

His preoccupation with the injustice? That has got to be one of the craziest things I have ever read. Maybe his 'preoccupation' is merely a reactive symptom of the disgraceful injustice he has suffered? What a complete idiot!

Interesting to read John Nash's account: Memoir

*Edit - fair use applies for this material*

reprazant · 05-10-2011 11:03AM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

What the above in mind, do you not think that maybe, just maybe, these "Doctors" could be wrong?

Maybe they were wrong, maybe there we correct. I don't know enough about the case or about psychiatry to make that call. How much of this case do you know, other then that article you have posted?

I do know that I have a friend who has been diagnosed as suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, who has admitted to hearing voices in the past and has attacked his parents on two occasions when he went off his meds. He has claimed that there is nothing wrong with him so I am a bit wary when it comes to people who say they are perfectly healthy.

The man in question has attacked only himself, no others. What form of attack did he use? What weapon did he use to attack himself? What was the build up to him attacking himself?

Seachmall · 05-10-2011 11:10AM

Anyone sympathising with this man clearly has a preoccupation with the injustice ye believe the psychiatric system has caused this man and it is out of proportion with reality.

Ye should all be locked up for life imo.

Seachmall · 05-10-2011 11:11AM

reprazant wrote: »

He has claimed that there is nothing wrong with him so I am a bit wary when it comes to people who say they are perfectly healthy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieK1PTXmopE

Son Of A Vidic · 05-10-2011 11:22AM

Seachmall wrote: »

Anyone sympathising with this man clearly has a preoccupation with the injustice ye believe the psychiatric system has caused this man and it is out of proportion with reality.

Ye should all be locked up for life imo.

To use the famous quote from General McAuliffe, commander of the 101st US Airborne Division during The Battle of the Bulge. When asked to surrender by the Germans, his reply was simply "Nuts"!.

Such a reply is also appropriate for the above post.

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 11:24AM

Seachmall wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieK1PTXmopE

This isn't funny. You are comparing apples and oranges here. I hope you don't ever have to put up with what the guy in the OP has. Putting someone away for a quater of a century under the guise of hostilic "care" is dodgy.

Seachmall · 05-10-2011 11:28AM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

This isn't funny. You are comparing apples and oranges here.

The point being a crazy man won't believe he's crazy.

Of course the point the doctor made is batshit insane itself.

Either way we don't know enough about the case to pass an opinion or criticize anyone.

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 11:35AM

Seachmall wrote: »

Either way we don't know enough about the case to pass an opinion or criticize anyone.

I think the material contained within the article at least raises the question: Do Psychiatrists have the implicit god given right to lock people away based on mere opinion? There is enough information in the article to infer the decisions are at least somewhat rigged from the outset.

Closed voting? I smell a rat...

Seachmall · 05-10-2011 11:42AM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

There is enough information in the article to infer the decisions are at least somewhat rigged from the outset.

No there's not, we don't know how they came to their conclusion. For all we know he's told his psychiatrists about fantasies of rape or murder.

Maybe they are full of ****, maybe they aren't but we don't know enough to even speculate intelligently.

reprazant · 05-10-2011 11:43AM

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I think the material contained within the article at least raises the question: Do Psychiatrists have the implicit god given right to lock people away based on mere opinion? There is enough information in the article to infer the decisions are at least somewhat rigged from the outset.

Closed voting? I smell a rat...

What? Where in the article does it infer the decisions are at least somewhat rigged from the outset?

You seem to know nothing of this case other then what is in that article yet have decided, based on minimum information, that the guy is complete sane and that the doctors were incorrect in their original diagnosis. You don't even know what he did to get locked up in the first place. Now, the guy might well be sane and a major miscarriage of justice may have taken place but I would prefer to know a lot more details before making that sort of judgement.

TheyKnowMyIP · 05-10-2011 11:45AM

Seachmall wrote: »

No there's not, we don't know how they came to their conclusion. For all we know he's told his psychiatrists about fantasies of rape or murder.

Maybe they are full of ****, maybe they aren't but we don't know enough to even speculate intelligently.

We will know for certain once the hearing is carried out publically. Should be interesting. I do accept your point though.

Man who committed minor offence seeks freedom from Mental Institution after 25 years

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