Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Blatter · 04-10-2011 02:19PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i would take him back anyway, i have absolutely no faith in Mike Phelan, i think he is a fraud...cant see how he has such a top class job.

What in God's name are you basing this on?

How the hell do you have any idea how good or bad a job Mike Phelan is doing?

Ridiculous accusation.

newballsplease · 04-10-2011 02:23PM

Id love to know how ye all distinguish between the Number 2's/ assistants? How ye see one did a great job ahead of another?

How was Carlos and McClaren great assistants? And Phelan isnt? as above poster says?

To me i only see an assistant manager sitting on the bench, doint the odd interview. Taking a few trainings, thats it.

Nalz · 04-10-2011 02:27PM

newballsplease wrote: »

Id love to know how ye all distinguish between the Number 2's/ assistants? How ye see one did a great job ahead of another?

How was Carlos and McClaren great assistants? And Phelan isnt? as above poster says?

To me i only see an assistant manager sitting on the bench, doint the odd interview. Taking a few trainings, thats it.

Good point. I suppose the best way the public can judge is on players opinions published in an autobiography or the likes. Gary Neville compares them a fair bit in his book. An interesting read, not fantastic but not the worse either.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would mcclaren goback to being a number 2?

i would take him back anyway, i have absolutely no faith in Mike Phelan, i think he is a fraud...cant see how he has such a top class job.

Harsh, bring back the tash I say!

The_Kew_Tour · 04-10-2011 02:30PM

Just to think McClearn could have been United manager very easily after Fergie was meant retire before:eek:

DM_7 · 04-10-2011 02:33PM

Keep Phelan.

when the today fm commentator/analyst talks about Mickey Phelan on the sideline I always have a giggle.

Mars Bar · 04-10-2011 02:33PM

The only judgement I could make on Phelan is that that beard he had was shocking and I'm glad he shaved it off.

flahavaj · 04-10-2011 02:38PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would mcclaren goback to being a number 2?

i would take him back anyway, i have absolutely no faith in Mike Phelan, i think he is a fraud...cant see how he has such a top class job.

Stupid thing to say tbh. Explain what faults he has that make him a fraud?

The_Kew_Tour · 04-10-2011 02:40PM

Always brought a chuckle to the tune of 'You've Lost that Lovin' Feeling':

You've lost your hairline Phelan
Whoa your hairline Phelan
You've lost your hairline Phelan
Now it's gone, gone, gone, whoa-oh-a

Panthro · 04-10-2011 02:56PM

"And when it comes to Mike Phelan,
He wants...sexual Regaine..."

homerjay2005 · 04-10-2011 03:37PM

let me explain and i am just basing it on my opinion. i just dont trust him, answer honestly, if god forbid anything happened to fergie for a few weeks, would ye trust Phelan to run the team? in 99, i would have trused Mclaren, same for carlos Q, but i just dont think Phelan is qualified enough to do the job.

would you be afraid that another club would poach him? no..would he have this job at another club? i dont think so....

united have made alot of poor tactical decisions over the past few seasons, last year was especially bad, last saturday was another example of it. if we had 2 good men on the sideline, i dont think these mistakes would be made and i would hope, that a better assistant would have helped to pick a different team for example in the CL final last year.

he seems as more of a yes man for fergie than anything else.

Kylo Ren · 04-10-2011 03:40PM

Fletcher has fecking tonsillitis! What is up with this chaps immune system??

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/scotland/8806523/Darren-Fletcher-doubtful-for-Scotlands-Euro-2012-qualifiers-with-tonsillitis.html

A short statement on the SFA's website read: "Darren Fletcher is suffering from tonsillitis in Manchester but will be assessed by club and Scotland medical staff on daily basis."

flahavaj · 04-10-2011 03:40PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

let me explain and i am just basing it on my opinion. i just dont trust him, answer honestly, if god forbid anything happened to fergie for a few weeks, would ye trust Phelan to run the team? in 99, i would have trused Mclaren, same for carlos Q, but i just dont think Phelan is qualified enough to do the job.

would you be afraid that another club would poach him? no..would he have this job at another club? i dont think so....

united have made alot of poor tactical decisions over the past few seasons, last year was especially bad, last saturday was another example of it. if we had 2 good men on the sideline, i dont think these mistakes would be made and i would hope, that a better assistant would have helped to pick a different team for example in the CL final last year.

he seems as more of a yes man for fergie than anything else.

I think McLaren and Queiroz's subsequent managerial records after leaving United show how spectacularly wrong you were there, so that line of reasoning isn't exactly sound.

Giggsy11 · 04-10-2011 03:45PM

Dont know whether it is posted:

Manchester United goalkeeper David de Gea has discussed his donut shocker on Radio Cope.

De Gea was reportedly detained by security staff at Tesco for scoffing down a donut in the aisles without paying.
But he explained: "It was a minor story. In the end the shop ended up asking for forgiveness.
"My cousin and a friend came to visit me from Spain and we went shopping. We took some donuts, but I realised I didn't have my wallet and went to the car to get it. They thought I was leaving without paying.
"I tried to explain but my English is still not very good. At last we found a Spanish girl, we fixed everything and they ended up asking for forgiveness."

keane2097 · 04-10-2011 03:45PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

let me explain and i am just basing it on my opinion. i just dont trust him, answer honestly, if god forbid anything happened to fergie for a few weeks, would ye trust Phelan to run the team? in 99, i would have trused Mclaren, same for carlos Q, but i just dont think Phelan is qualified enough to do the job.

would you be afraid that another club would poach him? no..would he have this job at another club? i dont think so....

united have made alot of poor tactical decisions over the past few seasons, last year was especially bad, last saturday was another example of it. if we had 2 good men on the sideline, i dont think these mistakes would be made and i would hope, that a better assistant would have helped to pick a different team for example in the CL final last year.

he seems as more of a yes man for fergie than anything else.

The Asst Manager isn't necessarily supposed to be the "Manager-In-Waiting" either, at least to my mind, although I have no problem at all with your suspicions about our current sideline's ineffectiveness at in-running tactical adjustments.

jaykay74 · 04-10-2011 03:54PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Dont know whether it is posted:

Manchester United goalkeeper David de Gea has discussed his donut shocker on Radio Cope.

Funny how Bamboozling chose to take The Suns word for it in the donut thread rather than wait for the truth to come out. Kinda ironic for a liverpool fan

Pro. F · 04-10-2011 04:26PM

flahavaj wrote: »

I think McLaren and Queiroz's subsequent managerial records after leaving United show how spectacularly wrong you were there, so that line of reasoning isn't exactly sound.

This is so true. We used to hear so much about how tactically astute Quieroz was and how Fergie was lacking in that department, but I never believed it for a moment. Fergie didn't get all this success without knowing his tactics inside out.

keane2097 · 04-10-2011 04:31PM

Pro. F wrote: »

This is so true. We used to hear so much about how tactically astute Quieroz was and how Fergie was lacking in that department, but I never believed it for a moment. Fergie didn't get all this success without knowing his tactics inside out.

Can't overestimate attitude at the same time.

Ferguson took a long time come around to the idea of adjusting from the traditional gung-ho style in Europe, and probably wouldn't have been the world's greatest expert at using it even when he did.

It may or may not be a coincidence that United only really became effective at it roughly around the time Quieroz turned up.

Pro. F · 04-10-2011 04:46PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Can't overestimate attitude at the same time.

Ferguson took a long time come around to the idea of adjusting from the traditional gung-ho style in Europe, and probably wouldn't have been the world's greatest expert at using it even when he did.

It may or may not be a coincidence that United only really became effective at it roughly around the time Quieroz turned up.

It was coincidence imo anyway. If it is even true, which I'm not sure it is. For me, the fact that we didn't do anything particularly clever tactically makes the fact that we had the best defenders in the world and Ronaldo in the team seem like a far more likely explanation for whatever success we had.

But it's true that it is possible that Quieroz is strong on tactics and it's only his other flaws that make him a shìt manager. And that Fergie is weak on the tactics. But I just don't believe either is likely.

bucketybuck · 04-10-2011 05:15PM

Its amazing how history gets revised over time.

In the lead up to Fergusons first European cup final in 1999, much was made of the effect Steve McClaren had had on the squad. He was at the time regarded as one of the brightest young coaches in the game, and almost to a man, united fans were disappointed when he left.

It was widely known at the time that Ferguson did not take training, and that many of the developments in play at United were coming from Steve McClaren. His effect cannot be underestimated. Talk of his record since is not really relevant. Just as Ferguson is a better manager than a coach, why can it not be that McClaren is a much better coach than a manager, there are different qualities involved.

Queiroz also, was frequently derided by Utd fans at a time when certain areas of the team (midfield, not for the last time) were underperforming. That our play again developed to a point where we again won a european cup had a lot to do with Querioz, regardless of his subsequent record as a manager.

I remember both McClaren and Querioz as assistant managers, they had a noticeable input into team selection and performance and were visible no.2's. This is why Phelen is regarded poorly, because he does not seem to have any visible impact, rightly or wrongly. He is just there, and so it is easy to imagine him as just a yes man.

McClaren and Queiroz certainly were not yes men, and it is very inaccurate to try and portray them as anything but very successful in their times as assistant managers at Utd.

bucketybuck · 04-10-2011 05:16PM

flahavaj wrote: »

I think McLaren and Queiroz's subsequent managerial records after leaving United show how spectacularly wrong you were there, so that line of reasoning isn't exactly sound.

I am sorry, but thats a complete logical fallacy. One does not equal the other.

keane2097 · 04-10-2011 05:23PM

Pro. F wrote: »

It was coincidence imo anyway. If it is even true, which I'm not sure it is. For me, the fact that we didn't do anything particularly clever tactically makes the fact that we had the best defenders in the world and Ronaldo in the team seem like a far more likely explanation for whatever success we had.

Wat?

I'm talking about tactics from the early 90s!

The_Kew_Tour · 04-10-2011 05:24PM

When I played with Forest youths as a kid our Coach was excellent and was well known to have blossomed some fine players. But put him as manager and he could not do it for love nor money.

Big difference between coach and manager.

Personally I dont think Kidd, Mclaren and Queiroz made great choices becoming managers its a different ball game completely.

Blatter · 04-10-2011 05:28PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its amazing how history gets revised over time.

In the lead up to Fergusons first European cup final in 1999, much was made of the effect Steve McClaren had had on the squad. He was at the time regarded as one of the brightest young coaches in the game, and almost to a man, united fans were disappointed when he left.

It was widely known at the time that Ferguson did not take training, and that many of the developments in play at United were coming from Steve McClaren. His effect cannot be underestimated. Talk of his record since is not really relevant. Just as Ferguson is a better manager than a coach, why can it not be that McClaren is a much better coach than a manager, there are different qualities involved.

Queiroz also, was frequently derided by Utd fans at a time when certain areas of the team (midfield, not for the last time) were underperforming. That our play again developed to a point where we again won a european cup had a lot to do with Querioz, regardless of his subsequent record as a manager.

I remember both McClaren and Querioz as assistant managers, they had a noticeable input into team selection and performance and were visible no.2's. This is why Phelen is regarded poorly, because he does not seem to have any visible impact, rightly or wrongly. He is just there, and so it is easy to imagine him as just a yes man.

McClaren and Queiroz certainly were not yes men, and it is very inaccurate to try and portray them as anything but very successful in their times as assistant managers at Utd.

You say that McClaren and Querioz 'had a noticeable input into team selection and performance'

How do you know that they did? And how do you know that Phelan doesn't?

VW 1 · 04-10-2011 05:30PM

Blatter wrote: »

You say that McClaren and Querioz 'had a noticeable input into team selection and performance'

How do you know that they did? And how do you know that Phelan doesn't?

Exactly the question I would ask.

Perhaps Phelan totally disagrees at times, but they present a united front nonetheless. Would do no good to have the media/fans believing there is a backroom rift/disagreement.

Son Of A Vidic · 04-10-2011 05:41PM

mars bar wrote: »

The only judgement I could make on Phelan is that that beard he had was shocking and I'm glad he shaved it off.

I thought it suited him, it gave him a look of wisdom I felt. Ah but each to their own I suppose.

eugeneious · 04-10-2011 06:08PM

Blatter wrote: »

You say that McClaren and Querioz 'had a noticeable input into team selection and performance'

How do you know that they did? And how do you know that Phelan doesn't?

I think Neville mentions in his autobiography about how Querioz was one of the main reasons Utd beat Barca in the CL semi and played a big part in overcoming Chelsea in the final. Regards Phelan, I can't understand why anyone would want rid of him if he's done nothing wrong.

homerjay2005 · 04-10-2011 06:14PM

flahavaj wrote: »

I think McLaren and Queiroz's subsequent managerial records after leaving United show how spectacularly wrong you were there, so that line of reasoning isn't exactly sound.

so you would trust phelan to take temp charge before those 2?

just cos the england job didnt work well for mcclaren and real for carlos, doesnt mean they are bad managers, they have lots of good traits also and have some results also and achievemments....

they are both only young and relatively inexperienced, but still 2 of the best assistants/coachs in the game. phelan is well off that level.

MagicMarker · 04-10-2011 06:15PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

phelan is well off that level.

How?

flahavaj · 04-10-2011 06:24PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

so you would trust phelan to take temp charge before those 2?

Why not? They've proven themselves pretty rubbish when put in charge of leser jobs than the United job.

You seem to think that whether an assistant would be a good manager is a good criterion with which to judge them - in reality it has little relevance. The point most of us is making is that none of us would have any clue as to how good or bad an assistant any of these guys are - their job is done behind closed doors for the most part.

just cos the england job didnt work well for mcclaren and real for carlos, doesnt mean they are bad managers, they have lots of good traits also and have some results also and achievemments....

Again them being good or bad managers is irrelevant. A bad manager can be a goos assistant and vice versa. It mnakes no difference. (Though I'd desagree strongly wbout them not being bad managers,both their track records in the hot seat are mediocre at best).

they are both only young and relatively inexperienced, but still 2 of the best assistants/coachs in the game. phelan is well off that level

Based on what? What are they good at that Phelan is isn't and how the hell do you know this? I'm not puttinhg down McLaren or Queiroz as coaches, but equally I see no need to do the same to Phelan. I'd be stunned if Fergie tolerated a fraud as his assistant. It would go contrary to a quarter of a century of demanding the absolute best people in their roles at the club at all levels.

flahavaj · 04-10-2011 06:25PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I am sorry, but thats a complete logical fallacy. One does not equal the other.

It shows that the criteria he is using to judge the ability of United's various assistant managers was flawed from the very start.

Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

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