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English accents in historical films

  • 02-10-2011 06:52PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,897 ✭✭✭


    Why oh why are British accents lauded as the norm in American movies? I don't understand, it is the most irritating thing ever and I end up being distracted by the accents rather than enjoy the movie. Thor, for example. They all sound like the fecking Queen. Why?

    Any film with any type of historical theme has english accents. Gah!


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭MJ23


    miley Byrne in Alexander. Brilliant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Kimia wrote: »
    Why oh why are British accents lauded as the norm in American movies? I don't understand, it is the most irritating thing ever and I end up being distracted by the accents rather than enjoy the movie. Thor, for example. They all sound like the fecking Queen. Why?

    Any film with any type of historical theme has english accents. Gah!

    Not quite sure what your point is caller, except that in Hollywoodland its generally been considered that an "obvious" American drawl accent (and the attitude that evokes) just jars in films about the ancient world*. Peter Ustinov as Nero works, as would have Charles Lawton but even Orson Welles would somehow seem wrong (and he was a brilliant orator/actor when he could be arsed).



    *notable exception Charlton Heston for some reason. I think it was down to the way he carried himself and that his accent is quite clipped.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Afaik the reason for this is that traditionally British actors were always cast as the evil Romans in historical epics. Sometimes this would be contrasted by having the heroic lead actor have an American accent (Kirk Douglas in Spartacus, for example). But they tended to sound out of place, and given that all the really good Shakespearian stage actors who could pull these parts off tended to be from Britain, it was easier to just get the Americans in the cast to do a pseudo-English accent. I mean, how else should English-speaking Greek/Romans in historical epics sound? Good luck trying to get an American/British cast to do a Latin/Greek-sounding English accent.

    In Alexander, Oliver Stone tried to break the current tradition by having the Macedonians speak with Irish accents and was roundly savaged for it. Nearly everybody wanted to know why the Macedonians were speaking with Irish accents, but they had no problem with the Greeks in the films speaking with British accents.

    The only other film I can think of that really threw this "rule" to the wind was The Last Temptation of Christ where everyone speaks with a New York accent. That didn't go down too well either. So I think it’s fair to say it’s just something audiences have gotten used to and have come to expect in historical epics.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    You can go down the other road as well and do what Mel Gibson has done in The Passion of the Christ and in Apocalypto and have the characters actually speaking the language they would have spoken.

    However knowing the way cinemagoers are today it would probably result in far less people turning up to see these movies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭Isard


    You can go down the other road as well and do what Mel Gibson has done in The Passion of the Christ and in Apocalypto and have the characters actually speaking the language they would have spoken.
    However knowing the way cinemagoers are today it would probably result in far less people turning up to see these movies.
    It certainly would. People are forever crying "What, is it with subtitles? Go see it yourself!":( I like this road, though. It creates that national and ethnic colour that is always interesting.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭tony1kenobi


    I've just watched Thor and can't think of anyone but Rene Russo that put on an English accent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87 ✭✭CdeP


    Afaik the reason for this is that traditionally British actors were always cast as the evil Romans in historical epics. Sometimes this would be contrasted by having the heroic lead actor have an American accent (Kirk Douglas in Spartacus, for example). But they tended to sound out of place, and given that all the really good Shakespearian stage actors who could pull these parts off tended to be from Britain, it was easier to just get the Americans in the cast to do a pseudo-English accent. I mean, how else should English-speaking Greek/Romans in historical epics sound? Good luck trying to get an American/British cast to do a Latin/Greek-sounding English accent.

    In Alexander, Oliver Stone tried to break the current tradition by having the Macedonians speak with Irish accents and was roundly savaged for it. Nearly everybody wanted to know why the Macedonians were speaking with Irish accents, but they had no problem with the Greeks in the films speaking with British accents.

    The only other film I can think of that really threw this "rule" to the wind was The Last Temptation of Christ where everyone speaks with a New York accent. That didn't go down too well either. So I think it’s fair to say it’s just something audiences have gotten used to and have come to expect in historical epics.

    Did Oliver Stone ever reveal why he made that decision regarding the accents?

    Something to do with the fact the that the Macedonians were considered barbaric and uncivilized by the Greeks just as the Irish were (are?) by the British maybe?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    CdeP wrote: »
    Did Oliver Stone ever reveal why he made that decision regarding the accents?

    Something to do with the fact the that the Macedonians were considered barbaric and uncivilized by the Greeks just as the Irish were (are?) by the British maybe?

    This is exactly the reason why
    John Kavanagh was interviewed on the subject and the amount of Irish actors and Irish accents in the film


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Only Oliver Stone! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    So what? The Macedonians are the heroes of the film. And they aren't all Irish accents anyway. There's some Scottish accents as well. The Greeks are played by English actors for the same reason Romans were in old Hollywood epics - because they were "evil".


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Well its just so him!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    I've just watched Thor and can't think of anyone but Rene Russo that put on an English accent.

    the guy who played thor? i think it was supposed to be english anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭foxyboxer


    Sean Connery in well.....anything.

    Liked how they started out speaking subtitled russian in the hunt for red october but then segued into english mid-conversation. Very clever.

    Still had his accshent though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    English accents in American movies usually denotes the bad guy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Or a butler.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 31,417 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I never really get why people get so bothered by accents in movies. If it's made by an English language country, the funding usually won't be there for anything else. And with a lot of these big budget features, stars are required. Thus simple economics come into effect. The problem is that many of these stars don't have particular range as actors. TBH, I always thought with something like Alexander (which I haven't seen) the only 'artistic motive' was just to make Farrell look good :P I'd rather normal, American / British accents than bad Russian ones, for example.

    One must suspend disbelief when watching films - they're fiction, or mediated recreation that tend to take serious liberties with the narrative they're adapting. A foreign accent is usually the least of my concerns when it comes to these things. I always go back to the Valkyrie approach. It's merely an OK film (perhaps overly generous?) but having Cruise speaking German and then fading into his normal accent acknowledged the inherent problem with Hollywood accents. That, for me, was the perfect way to point out "OK, this is a Hollywood adaptation of a Germany set narrative, let's just get on with things".

    Was discussing Dangerous Liasons today, and while I'm not the biggest fan of the film, what I did like was how they kind of give a big '**** you' to the typical period picture stylings by having all the characters speak in their native accent. Particularly sly is the representation of peasants / servants as Scottish, where all the bourgeoisie are American. It's just a nice touch, and one which really helps distinguish it from your usual po-faced costume drama. Indeed, a contemporary period drama, if you will. Marie Antoinette had the same casual disregard for genre norms, but unfortunately that had problems elsewhere too. Still, makes a change from po-faced, clean and very British extravagance.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,900 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I never got all the bitching about the accents in Alexander, thought it was a pretty good idea to have one english speaking nationality play each of the different nationalities in the film, made more sense than making them all speak with american or faux shakspearean english accents. It was about the only thing I liked about the film actually.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    the guy who played thor? i think it was supposed to be english anyway.
    He was australian
    foxyboxer wrote: »
    Sean Connery in well.....anything.
    Sean Connery has an english accent now?


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,900 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Mellor wrote: »

    Sean Connery has an english accent now?

    I don't think thats what they said. They said they started speaking english not using english accents.

    THere's a bit in highlander that always made me laugh, mostly because of Connery's scottish twang and Lambert's french accent:

    Connor MacLeod: I cannot swim you Spanish peacock.
    Ramirez: I'm not Spanish, I'm Egyptian.
    Connor MacLeod: You said you were from Spain! You're a liar!
    Ramirez: You have the manners of a goat and you smell like a dung-heap. And you've no knowledge whatsoever of your potential. Now, get out!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Pink11


    Julia Roberts in Michael Collins!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,321 ✭✭✭the whole year inn


    Richard Gere in "The Jackal" o my!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭Ridley


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I don't think thats what they said. They said they started speaking english not using english accents.

    THere's a bit in highlander that always made me laugh, mostly because of Connery's scottish twang and Lambert's french accent:

    Connor MacLeod: I cannot swim you Spanish peacock.
    Ramirez: I'm not Spanish, I'm Egyptian.
    Connor MacLeod: You said you were from Spain! You're a liar!
    Ramirez: You have the manners of a goat and you smell like a dung-heap. And you've no knowledge whatsoever of your potential. Now, get out!

    "You talk funny, Nash. Where you from?"
    "Lots of different places."

    Suppose it could be worse:



    (Somewhere around Yorkshire)

    [Language warning]

    I'd rather the Valkyrie method or some passable attempt at the accent (unless it just doesn't work) was made more often.

    Wish the Asterix movies always had the Gauls with French accents to go with the whole stereotyping that countries get with the franchise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I don't think thats what they said. They said they started speaking english not using english accents.
    The OP was about people with english accents in american films. The poster gave "Sean Connery in everything" as an example.

    I was pointing out that Sean Connery doesn't have an english accent. He famously has a scottish accent, one that never changes. I've seen him play Scottish, English, Irish, American, Russian and Spanish with that accent.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,900 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Mellor wrote: »
    The OP was about people with english accents in american films. The poster gave "Sean Connery in everything" as an example.

    I was pointing out that Sean Connery doesn't have an english accent. He famously has a scottish accent, one that never changes. I've seen him play Scottish, English, Irish, American, Russian and Spanish with that accent.

    If you want to be specific the OP said British Accents not exclusively English :P :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    CdeP wrote: »
    Did Oliver Stone ever reveal why he made that decision regarding the accents?

    Something to do with the fact the that the Macedonians were considered barbaric and uncivilized by the Greeks just as the Irish were (are?) by the British maybe?

    I thought the reason he had different accents was to reflect the different regions of the growing empire. Seemed like a clever idea to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    the guy who played thor? i think it was supposed to be english anyway.
    The guy who played Thor in the recent cinema outing is Australian. His name is Chris hemsworth and he also played Kim Hyde in Home and Away.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    If you want to be specific the OP said British Accents not exclusively English :P :pac:

    Ah, ya got me there, strictly speaking - although I don't think "british accent" was intended to mean scottish, welsh etc. Plus the title did say English.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭hinault


    Yeah, Laurence Olivier's english accent playing Hamlet (1948 film) was a bit disappointing.

    Do Danes speak with english accents, byejove!:D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,198 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    hinault wrote: »
    Yeah, Laurence Olivier's english accent playing Hamlet (1948 film) was a bit disappointing.

    Do Danes speak with english accents, byejove!:D
    No, but actors in Shakepearean plays did


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