Irish rugby team represents a geographical entity, not a country ?

HellsAngel · 03-10-2011 06:50PM #1

I have noticed on discussions on radio and the odd article in the papers regarding Ireland and the Rugby World Cup, some journalists alluding to the usual sort of - isn't it great to see all traditions on the island of Ireland getting behind the team, blah, blah.

However here's what former Irish international and unionist councillor Davy Tweed had to say " The Irish rugby team represents a geographical entity, not a country and certainly not a nation. "

So folks, what do you think of Tweed's statement ?? Is it fooling ourselves yet again to pretend all unionists are behind the Irish team ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Tweed

strobe · 03-10-2011 06:56PM

Not sure what point he was trying to make but, well, technically he is correct, isn't he?

Oranage2 · 03-10-2011 06:58PM

My opinion on this is that biko will lock it

any other takers?

Bobby Baccala · 03-10-2011 06:59PM

I'd have to say Frisbee.

4leto · 03-10-2011 07:00PM

Yeah Rugby is more a unionist sport in Northern Ireland then catholic. Plus its true the rugby crowd are different.

I would love to see the same thing happen to our soccer team, there were times past that a combined north and south team would have Up there. But not now. But thats a dream.

HellsAngel · 03-10-2011 07:01PM

strobe wrote: »

Not sure what point he was trying to make but, well, technically he is correct, isn't he?

Does Ireland not compete as a single "country" in Rugby ?

BBDBB · 03-10-2011 07:01PM

Id say it represents more of the nation than Davy Tweed ever did

Chuck Stone · 03-10-2011 07:07PM

A nation may refer to a community of people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, descent, and/or history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

There are plenty of people in the north who consider themselves Irish and we have a shared history on this Island with people who consider themselves British, or at least part of the UK, whether we or they like it or not.

I'm not sure you'd get many people calling for a NI 6-county rugby team. Perhaps the most isolationist and embittered Unionists.

Regardless, I think we should just enjoy the success of the Irish Rugby team and get behind them no matter what political persuasion we are.

strobe · 03-10-2011 07:08PM

HellsAngel wrote: »

Does Ireland not compete as a single "country" in Rugby ?

Not a clue man. Do they?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-10-2011 07:08PM

The team's use of a neutral flag and anthem would have me incline to agree with Mr Tweed.

Nolanger · 03-10-2011 07:09PM

Let them have their own Northern Ireland rugby team and see how good they are?

InTheTrees · 03-10-2011 07:09PM

I think its great.

And thats an understatement... from small inauspicious beginings great things can happen.

I'd never seen anything like that before, my first surprise was the song they sang instead of a national anthem. Not the best of tunes it has to be said. Then I realised it was an all-ireland team.

You could have knocked me down with a feather...

Imagine. A united island...

Chuck Stone · 03-10-2011 07:12PM

HellsAngel wrote: »

Does Ireland not compete as a single "country" in Rugby ?

Not really a country in the regular sense no. I think it's better to sideline politics when it comes to some things.

I was born in Norn Iron and I live in the south so it's nice for me personally to see people from the part of this island I was born playing in a team with people from where I live now.

Kevin Duffy · 03-10-2011 07:13PM

This would suggest nothing more to me than that Davy Tweed is a fúcking hypocrite who has no clue what a nation is.

knird evol · 03-10-2011 07:14PM

What I think of tweeds statement is that he can't sit down and enjoy a rugby match. Or maybe enjoy anything in life. But has to shite on about union-partition-tribal bigotry crap that no one wants to hear.

MungBean · 03-10-2011 07:15PM

Irish rugby team represents Irish people.

Bluefoam · 03-10-2011 07:17PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The team's use of a neutral flag and anthem would have me incline to agree with Mr Tweed.

They have been using an Irish flag alongside an Ulster flag (the original yellow flag) I was very proud to see the two flags side by side and think its great that the team play as the island of Ireland.

HellsAngel · 03-10-2011 07:18PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The team's use of a neutral flag and anthem would have me incline to agree with Mr Tweed.

Well 13 out of the starting 15 are Irish nationalists ( Ferris and Best are from unionist backgrounds). It would be a bit like expecting the Swedes not to fly their national flag in respect to the Lapplanders or something.

TheZohanS · 03-10-2011 07:18PM

I don't really care, all I know is that this team actually have a chance of winning the Rugby World Cup, that's fecking brilliant. They're doing the whole country proud. Our soccer team can't even qualify for a European Championship and already the rugby boys are in the QF of the RWC.

Brilliant.

Caraville · 03-10-2011 07:19PM

I'd say David Tweed might consider himself British, but he has a grand Irish begrudging air about him.

He may be technically correct, but he's totally missing the point. It's sport, not politics. Nobody is saying that it's all about one country- I mean, they stand to attention for the muck that is "Ireland's Call" instead of Amhrán na bhFiann so that it includes both sides of the border*. It's like a GAA club that has two parishes/areas in it- if that club wins, it should be seen as a victory for both areas. Same with Ireland's rugby team- both North and South should be celebrating its success.

*Edit: I don't think they should all have to stand for Amhrán an bhFiann by the way, because it's not the national anthem of some of the players... but Ireland's Call is just cringe. Then again, most anthems are...

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-10-2011 07:21PM

Bluefoam wrote: »

They have been using an Irish flag alongside an Ulster flag (the original yellow flag) I was very proud to see the two flags side by side and think its great that the team play as the island of Ireland.

Oh right I didn't notice that. I thought they were using the flag they had during the 07 tournament, the one with the four provincial emblems on a green base.

Cool_CM · 03-10-2011 07:22PM

HellsAngel wrote:

Well 13 out of the starting 15 are Irish nationalists ( Ferris and Best are from unionist backgrounds).

I take it you mean nationals and not nationalists? Otherwise I think you may be jumping to conclusions!

Chuck Stone · 03-10-2011 07:23PM

Most of the lads on the team probably couldn't give a shite about politics, borders, flags etc at the moment.

ANXIOUS · 03-10-2011 07:23PM

I personally think its a great format. However I've a few questions. Do the British government contribute to the costs of the team?

My personal understanding is that a few players hate Irelands call. Why can't we have both anthem?

Wonder what will happen when we win the world cup, will they have an open top bus tour in northern Ireland as well?

Kevin Duffy · 03-10-2011 07:24PM

HellsAngel wrote: »

Well 13 out of the starting 15 are Irish nationalists ( Ferris and Best are from unionist backgrounds). It would be a bit like expecting the Swedes not to fly their national flag in respect to the Lapplanders or something.

Eh, just because two of them are from a Unionist background doesn't mean the remainder are nationalists.

Oranage2 · 03-10-2011 07:24PM

TheZohan wrote: »

I don't really care, all I know is that this team actually have a chance of winning the Rugby World Cup, that's fecking brilliant. They're doing the whole country proud. Our soccer team can't even qualify for a European Championship and already the rugby boys are in the QF of the RWC.

Brilliant.

Only 8 teams play rudgy and by golly they're all in the QF -

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-10-2011 07:25PM

TheZohan wrote: »

I don't really care, all I know is that this team actually have a chance of winning the Rugby World Cup, that's fecking brilliant. They're doing the whole country proud. Our soccer team can't even qualify for a European Championship and already the rugby boys are in the QF of the RWC.

Brilliant.

Different game to soccer in fairness. You'd expect a team like Ireland to be making the last 8 in a RWC at the very least.

spider guardian · 03-10-2011 07:25PM

It's great to see sport transcend politics. Some unionists mightn't be happy at the notion of an all-ireland anything but never mind them. As if people put pride in 'Geographical entities' as opposed to community

TheZohanS · 03-10-2011 07:26PM

ANXIOUS wrote: »

I personally think its a great format. However I've a few questions. Do the British government contribute to the costs of the team?

My personal understanding is that a few players hate Irelands call. Why can't we have both anthem?

Wonder what will happen when we win the world cup, will they have an open top bus tour in northern Ireland as well?

They play the national anthem at most matches along with Irelands Call. I'd say they'd probably have a party in Belfast and Dublin if we won.

ANXIOUS · 03-10-2011 07:26PM

HellsAngel wrote: »

Well 13 out of the starting 15 are Irish nationalists ( Ferris and Best are from unionist backgrounds). It would be a bit like expecting the Swedes not to fly their national flag in respect to the Lapplanders or something.

what about trimble?

ANXIOUS · 03-10-2011 07:29PM

TheZohan wrote: »

They play the national anthem at most matches along with Irelands Call. I'd say they'd probably have a party in Belfast and Dublin if we won.

Thanks, however i was referring to god save the queen. If the lads are unionist, that's their anthem.

Irish rugby team represents a geographical entity, not a country ?

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