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David McWilliams: Unionists can share power with Sinn Féin - what's our problem?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    Irish west Brits such as those in RTE and Fine Gael are more loyalist then Ulster loyalists. I wouldn't even call them Irish. They are the remains of the occupation.
    Tiocfaidh ár lá, 26+6=1, huns are scum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Tiocfaidh ár lá, 26+6=1, huns are scum.
    Thanks. :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭Where To


    No.


    I'm an unrepentant west brit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Tiocfaidh ár lá, 26+6=1, huns are scum.
    They have'nt gone away, you know. ;)
    A bit funny all the same how someone from another jurisdiction, who never paid tax here in his life, and who is generally acknowledged ( inc by our ex minister for Justice ) to have been a leader of the terrorist organisation known for many outrages on both sides of the border, has the neck to accuse hard working law abiding citizens of this state of being "west brits" in a degrotatory tone of voice. Imagine having him as President:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    I'm an unrepentant west brit.

    Much better to be a west brit than someone who was a leader of the organisation who kidnapped Jean McColville, bombed Le Mons + Enniskillen + Belfast, shot Gerry McCabe in Limerick, another Guard in Leitrim etc etc etc. He killed + terrorised "west brits", still has not shown remorse or apologised for doing so, and still talks about "west brits" when risen. A leopard does not change his spots.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    No (explain in post)
    People seriously need to read his "west brit" comment. He said it was certain sections of the Dublin based media, ie, Myers, the usual suspects. He also referenced certain politicians who were "formally in political parties". That is clearly a reference to McDowell in response to his diatribe against MMG on the frontline.

    Martin was 100% correct too. There are "west brit elements" out there with a clear agenda against him, but thats not saying that EVERYONE who doesn't want him as president is a West Brit. He never said that.
    I certainly would not apply that description generally. I think there's a very tiny number of people who fit into that category


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    People seriously need to read his "west brit" comment. He said it was certain sections of the Dublin based media, ie, Myers, the usual suspects. He also referenced certain politicians who were "formally in political parties". That is clearly a reference to McDowell in response to his diatribe against MMG on the frontline.

    Martin was 100% correct too. There are "west brit elements" out there with a clear agenda against him, but thats not saying that EVERYONE who doesn't want him as president is a West Brit. He never said that.
    Why is being a west brit wrong? Can't an Irish person have a soft spot for the UK/Britain? It is the way he is saying it as if being British or liking anything British is wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    I'm neither a sinn fein nor am likely to vote for Martin McGuinness in the upcoming election but maybe it is time to move on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,844 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    There are "west brit elements" out there with a clear agenda against him

    with bloody good reason too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Tiocfaidh ár lá, 26+6=1, huns are scum.

    I hope you dont mean that:(


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭pow wow


    So he's married to a Belfast woman and presumably knows loadz about NI and then comes out with that oversimplified tripe?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭michael999999


    No (explain in post)
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Why is being a west brit wrong? Can't an Irish person have a soft spot for the UK/Britain? It is the way he is saying it as if being British or liking anything British is wrong.
    Maybe you could recommend some loyalist websites people could sign up to!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Why is being a west brit wrong? Can't an Irish person have a soft spot for the UK/Britain? It is the way he is saying it as if being British or liking anything British is wrong.

    I dont think someone who likes england or britian is a west brit. I have a soft spot for britian to a degree. Even look at the dubliner's songs, a lot of them are about england!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Dionysus wrote: »
    McWilliams wasn't saying he was supporting McGuinness (or any candidate), but he was making a valid point that there is now no moral objection to electing a Sinn Féin President when the unionist community's representatives are willing to share power with Sinn Féin.
    We have no moral obligation to share power with McGuinness when he was not born in this state or paid tax here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I dont think someone who likes england or britian is a west brit. I have a soft spot for britian to a degree. Even look at the dubliner's songs, a lot of them are about england!

    +1. We have close ties to our neighbouring island going back many hundreds of years. I know a lot of my friends and relations got work in England, and were treated well there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    No (explain in post)
    I wonder do many people even realise that McAlesse is not the democratically elected president of Ireland. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    No (explain in post)
    gigino wrote: »
    We have no moral obligation to share power with McGuinness when he was not born in this state or paid tax here.


    So are you saying that every potential Td or presidential candidate must have worked and paid taxes here first ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    No (explain in post)
    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I wonder do many people even realise that McAlesse is not the democratically elected president of Ireland. :rolleyes:


    Come on explain :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    No (explain in post)
    realies wrote: »
    Come on explain :)

    Well did you get to vote on her second term in office?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I wonder do many people even realise that McAlesse is not the democratically elected president of Ireland. :rolleyes:


    yes she is

    no one stood against her - she put herself forward for the post - she became president because of the fact - she has the seal of office - that my friend makes her president of the republic of Ireland

    because no one had the chance to vote on her second term, does not mean she is not " elected " to office , her first election took care of that

    hardly her fault if no one stood against her


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    realies wrote: »
    So are you saying that every potential Td or presidential candidate must have worked and paid taxes here first ?
    It would be a more beneficial prerequisite than being the leader of an organisation that murdered Gardai and robbed banks.;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    No (explain in post)
    dj jarvis wrote: »
    yes she is

    no one stood against her - she put herself forward for the post - she became president because of the fact - she has the seal of office - that my friend makes her president of the republic of Ireland

    because no one had the chance to vote on her second term, does not mean she is not " elected " to office , her first election took care of that

    hardly her fault if no one stood against her

    It was a stitch up by the political elite.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    No (explain in post)
    dj jarvis wrote: »
    yes she is

    no one stood against her - she put herself forward for the post - she became president because of the fact - she has the seal of office - that my friend makes her president of the republic of Ireland

    because no one had the chance to vote on her second term, does not mean she is not " elected " to office , her first election took care of that

    hardly her fault if no one stood against her


    Where were our seven candidates then ? ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    realies wrote: »
    Where were our seven candidates then ? ;)

    No-one could be arsed? I was never interested enough to find out whether that was the case or not.:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    While I am not going to vote for McGuinness (Higgins will get my #1), I feel that certain media figures in the Sindo and so on, will put votes his way with their articles.

    The very same media figures that (probably) wish the GFA never happened and that there was still violence every day. The same people who don't like Michael D for scrapping Section 31 and setting up TG4.

    These hacks thrive on butting outdated ideologies - Imperialism, Unionism and Republicanism against each other, long after they've passed their sell - by date.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Dionysus wrote: »
    So, why are some people in the 26 counties feigning moral objections to McGuinness when the representatives of the very community who were his victims (as McGuinness's community were their victims, of course), can get over it and elect their representatives to share power with him?
    Actually the Nationalist community were the biggest victims of the IRA.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0920/1224304412076.html?fb_ref=.TnimyXSyWxI.like&fb_source=profile_multiline
    The IRA’s “armed struggle” was what the fourth Geneva Convention defines as an “armed conflict not of an international character”. Under the convention, the parties to such a conflict are bound to respect certain standards in their treatment of “persons taking no active part in the hostilities”, including former or non-active members of opposing forces. Such people must not be subjected to violence, “in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; taking of hostages; outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognised as indispensable by civilized peoples”.

    It should go without saying that the IRA, partly under the leadership of Martin McGuinness, consistently breached every one of these provisions. But apparently, it does not, so let’s put it on record again. The IRA killed 644 civilians, by far the largest category of its victims (by contrast, and contradicting its self-image as defender of the Catholic community, it killed just 28 loyalist paramilitaries). It incinerated, for example, the members of the Irish Collie Club at the La Mon Hotel. It killed children, including Nicholas Knatchbull, Jonathan Ball, Tim Parry and Paul Maxwell. It practised kidnapping, torture, and acts of naked sadism, such as forcing Patsy Gillespie to drive a van loaded with explosives at an army checkpoint. (Widespread revulsion did not stop the IRA from trying this tactic again.) It held kangaroo courts and imposed arbitrary sentences that included mutilation through so-called “knee-capping”. All of these are war crimes for which there is no statute of limitations. I don’t know what personal role McGuinness may have played in any incident. However, what is clear is that he was, for almost the entire period of the conflict, in a position of authority within the IRA. Legally and morally, this makes him responsible.

    He actively denied this responsibility. His line was consistent – where civilians were killed by the IRA, it was the fault of the British. For example, on August 31st, 1988, an IRA booby-trap bomb in Derry killed two civilians, Seán Dalton and Sheila Lewis. McGuinness’s reaction was that, while the IRA should try not to inflict civilian casualties, “sadly . . . civilians will continue to suffer and die as long as Britain refuses to accept its fundamental responsibility for what is happening in our country.” He continued to portray himself and his comrades, not as perpetrators, but as victims of the conflict: “We are not the cause of this conflict; we are the victims of it. We are the product of decades of British tyranny and misrule.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭dj jarvis


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    It was a stitch up by the political elite.

    that is very funny :D

    it was a money and face saving excise for intelligent politicians ( a oxymoron i know but stick with me :D )
    WHY would you enter a race where you know 100% you will lose and possibly bankrupt yourself?

    and this would also explain why so many candidates are running now because the conclusion is far from a safe bet for any of the magnificent 7 , but it was a different story when Mary mac was minding the big house for us - she was NOT going to lose any election against her office - she knew it, the politicians new it and the public knew it, that is why very few objected to a walk over


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    No (explain in post)
    gigino wrote: »
    It would be a more beneficial prerequisite than being the leader of an organisation that murdered Gardai and robbed banks.;)


    He is not the first Gunman that has gone down the political route and certainly wont be the last (I hope)

    francis ross was an active IRA man in the fifties,he was caught training other men to become IRA members and was sent to prison to mountjoy he then got interned in the curragh camp,when he got out he turned to politics and was first elected in 1982 he then went on to become an mep where he is to this day you can read more about him here if you wish or maybe you wont,http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FProinsias_De_Rossa&ei=YbuITu_1BaHL0QWEpeXuDw&usg=AFQjCNFELhgQ_VAxAhT68L-xUV16d9zckA Our history is full of people like MMG its nothing new and imo he would make a great president.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    The very same media figures that (probably) wish the GFA never happened and that there was still violence every day.
    Rubbish. I do not accept that leading people in the media wish there was "still violence every day".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭PK2008


    I think a lot of people in the North (both sides) and people in the South make the mistake of believing that all people in the Republic of Ireland want a United Ireland or even care about what happens in Northern Ireland.

    I dont consider MMG, or anyone from Northern Ireland to be part of the Republic of Ireland, I consider them Northern Irish.

    I don't care how Northern Irelanders run their country, I dont care about their past, their future or how they treat each other........................any more than any other foreigners.

    MMG and his kind attempted to destroy the Republic of Ireland and built power through, fear, intimidation and brutality- I consider him and his kind as enemies of this state.

    I have no problem with Northern Irish people- either side of the divide, but I dont consider either side as being 'my people' ie people of the Republic of Ireland.


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