Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

David McWilliams: Unionists can share power with Sinn Féin - what's our problem?

  • 02-10-2011 03:27PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭


    I'm not a fan of McWilliams but he made one good point on the radio today.


    McWilliams, as many know, is married to a Belfast woman but in between talking about "the North is such a different place, such a totally different country" and "most people in the south don't know who Peter Robinson is", he came up with something with which I agree:

    "if the Northern unionists have got over Sinn Féin as a partner in government, which they have, I think it's about time that we said this is a political party, this guy is number 2 in that political party, he's going to go out and as George said in the next four weeks he's going to be scrutinised, and let him go and see what happens." (starts @ 29.00 here)

    McWilliams wasn't saying he was supporting McGuinness (or any candidate), but he was making a valid point that there is now no moral objection to electing a Sinn Féin President when the unionist community's representatives are willing to share power with Sinn Féin.

    I'm not voting for McGuinness for the reasons I gave here, but if the election comes down to something like the 1997 Presidential election where the right of Irish people in the north to be President of Ireland is challenged by Sunday Independent journalists and Fine Gael politicians like John Bruton, then I will shift my preferences. Ideally, though, I want a President who will be inclusive enough to speak Irish as well as English to Irish citizens, and that gives Michael D. the edge in my value system.


    So, why are some people in the 26 counties feigning moral objections to McGuinness when the representatives of the very community who were his victims (as McGuinness's community were their victims, of course), can get over it and elect their representatives to share power with him? It sounds like a deeply feigned "moral outrage" on the part of these people in the Republic given the reality of the compromise which unionists have made. Last night I discussed this issue with somebody and after about a half an hour of talking about political violence (I made sure to mention how the British government used violence to fulfil political aims in Iraq and other countries) and morality his real reason for opposing McGuinness's candidacy was enunciated: Sinn Féin was, apparently, a "radical socialist party". I have to say, though, I respect that reason more than I respect these supposed "moral" objections to McGuinness.

    Question: Is it hypocritical for some people in the Republic to have moral objections to McGuinness when unionists in the North can get over them and share power?

    Is it hypocritical for people in the Republic to have moral objections to McGuinness? 110 votes

    Yes; if unionists can get over McGuinness's past, so can people here
    0%
    No (explain in post)
    100%
    ManachSlydiceTazz TSeanehjhegartyPete M.Red AlertdlofnepSir OxmanR0otstorkerfred funk }{sdanseoAndy-PandyZebra3humbertchapod21MRPRO03guinnessdrinkeraidan24326 110 votes


«134567

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭johngalway


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Question: Is it hypocritical for some people in the Republic to have moral objections to McGuinness when unionists in the North can get over them and share power?

    No.

    The likes of MMG were necessary in NI because it was pretty much a warzone.

    The Republic of Ireland, while feeling the some of the effects of the conflict in NI, was not in conflict with itself.

    The two situations are different.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    So rule out any candidate without a good grasp of the Irish language who would be unable to communicate to the very few Irish only speaking electorate?

    Time to start installing more streetlamps in the bogs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    No (explain in post)
    Dionysus wrote: »

    Question: Is it hypocritical for some people in the Republic to have moral objections to McGuinness when unionists in the North can get over them and share power?


    What is hypocritical is to call for unionists and republicans to powershare, put the past behind them and work together inclusively,(broadly speaking they have), then throw the toys out of the pram at the prospect of SF or a republican, having electoral success in the south.

    Some people in the southern establishment and media are increasingly starting to sound like Jim Allister and the likes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    No (explain in post)
    So rule out any candidate without a good grasp of the Irish language who would be unable to communicate to the very few Irish only speaking electorate?

    Time to start installing more streetlamps in the bogs.

    :rolleyes: You have so many chips on your shoulder that every day it's like a new, even more unhappy person appears here using your user name.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    No (explain in post)
    Dionysus do you know how much of a grasp MMG has on the Irish language? I imagine it is decent enough, he certainly would have studied it in Portlaoise.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    What is hypocritical is to call for unionists and republicans to powershare, put the past behind them and work together inclusively,(broadly speaking they have), then throw the toys out of the pram at the prospect of SF or a republican, having electoral success in the south.

    Some people in the southern establishment and media are increasingly starting to sound like Jim Allister and the likes.

    So nothing to do with the murdering of Gardai, the robbing of banks, not recognising our Republic or Armed Forces and the belief that whilst most candidates lie, McGuinness takes it to a whole new level and maybe that does not appeal to people as our head of state?

    But no, we must be hypocritical and west brits, that is the only possible reason.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    No (explain in post)
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Dionysus do you know how much of a grasp MMG has on the Irish language? I imagine it is decent enough, he certainly would have studied it in Portlaoise.

    I've never heard McGuinness speak it, and it was Michael D. who established TG4 back in 1996. That was a far cry from the time in the 1980s when Irish speakers were imprisoned for refusing to pay their tv license for English language television. There was a poignant documentary on TG4 about that once; a quick Google and this is part of the documentary I'm thinking of.

    Michael D. broke the mould when he set up TG4, despite the rantings of Myers and the like. For that courage he's getting my vote.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭RachaelVO


    NO!

    In as much as I have watched and listened to MMcG in interviews, and I have found myself warming to him personally, and I've found him quiet funny, and I'd think about going for a pint with him, I don't think we're ready to have him as President. When he says he was in the IRA, but he never committed murder, ordered a murder (or shooting or knee capping), I just don't believe him!

    He worked great for peace in NI, but that's because he was part of the group that was part of the troubles. That's not the case here.

    It just doesn't feel right to me!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 57,077 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    No (explain in post)
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    What is hypocritical is to call for unionists and republicans to powershare, put the past behind them and work together inclusively,(broadly speaking they have), then throw the toys out of the pram at the prospect of SF or a republican, having electoral success in the south.

    Some people in the southern establishment and media are increasingly starting to sound like Jim Allister and the likes.

    For once i agree WT. While i have not voted for SF previously i have to say that F.G.'s Phil Hogan's comments really bugged me. Himself and his party need to be brought back down to earth. However if SF are now a party of peace they need to distance themselves from some of their hangers-on and be seen to do so. There are still some lads around my way throwing their weight about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    No (explain in post)
    If people can't get over MMG's and SF's past, will they get over the past of the mainstream parties and their candidates collaboration with the terrorist practises of the Roman Catholic church in the RoI?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    So nothing to do with the murdering of Gardai, the robbing of banks, not recognising our Republic or Armed Forces and the belief that whilst most candidates lie, McGuinness takes it to a whole new level and maybe that does not appeal to people as our head of state?

    But no, we must be hypocritical and west brits, that is the only possible reason.

    Stupid is as stupid does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    There I was thinking power sharing was part of the Good Friday Agreement and not that Unionists actually really wanted to go into government with Sinn Fein.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    No (explain in post)
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    There I was thinking power sharing was part of the Good Friday Agreement and not that Unionists actually really wanted to go into government with Sinn Fein.

    Ah yez did really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,351 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    If people can't get over MMG and SFs past, was there any point in them going down the peaceful, political route at all?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Dionysus wrote: »
    Is it hypocritical for some people in the Republic to have moral objections to McGuinness when unionists in the North can get over them and share power?

    I couldn't care less what they do up the north.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭Superbus


    David McWilliams is in a Bulmer's ad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    NIMAN wrote: »
    If people can't get over MMG and SFs past, was there any point in them going down the peaceful, political route at all?

    :confused: Yeah, they are gonna think "it is so hurtful to be slagged and reminded of what we did that it may be better to go back blowing up people"

    Sticks and stones Niman.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    No (explain in post)
    Superbus wrote: »
    David McWilliams is in a Bulmer's ad.

    Bulmers is gassy ****e in a flagon. Merrydown was great stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    Dionysus wrote: »
    :rolleyes: You have so many chips on your shoulder that every day it's like a new, even more unhappy person appears here using your user name.

    And I've got full use of all of my faculties. Mind where you go in the dark.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Kevin Duffy


    The reason all parties in the North share power is because if they didn't there would be no assembly and nothing to share. To imagine it's based on love and forgiveness and moving on is laughable. Someday it'll be hearts and flowers, but for now it's just pragmatism. It's not a bad start, but that's still all it is for now.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭whubee


    imho mcguinness knows he wont win, this is a way of easing in the idea of a SF president in future elections, acclimatizing the electorate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    No (explain in post)
    Paparazzo wrote: »
    I couldn't care less what they do up the north.


    Well 90% plus of the Republics population do. they voted yes to the Good Friday agreement in the full knowledge that McGinnis and Paisley would share power.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭2 stroke


    MMG was democratically elected in the north, and so entitled to be part of the powersharing government. As yet he is not democratically elected down here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,311 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    McGuinness has had the decency to start dealing with loyalists and unionists without demeaning their positions. He hasn't acclimatised to the state he wants to head up if he's going on about 'west brits'.

    Between that and the big lie about his involvement in a long series of activities that people here find unacceptable, he's making himself unelectable. I'm happy to have him run like any other candidate all the same


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Kevin Duffy


    washman3 wrote: »
    Well 90% plus of the Republics population do. they voted yes to the Good Friday agreement in the full knowledge that McGinnis and Paisley would share power.

    A rather cavalier approach to stats there. Turnout was 56% for that referendum, so your 90% is a bit makey-uppy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    No (explain in post)
    Yes it's hypocritical. It's BS to suggest people shouldn't vote for him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 884 ✭✭✭spider guardian


    Hypocritical yes. Martin McGuinness should be judged on whether he will make a good president or not. Moral outrage should not decide, nor should people pay any heed to the idiotic statements made by Phil Hogan.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    No (explain in post)
    And I've got full use of all of my faculties. Mind where you go in the dark.

    Threats now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    No (explain in post)
    Irish west Brits such as those in RTE and Fine Gael are more loyalist then Ulster loyalists. I wouldn't even call them Irish. They are the remains of the occupation.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    No (explain in post)
    A rather cavalier approach to stats there. Turnout was 56% for that referendum, so your 90% is a bit makey-uppy.


    90% plus of the 56% that turned out to vote. thats all that matters.
    if the other 44% didnt cast their vote thats their business, they just have to go along with the result of the majority afterwards.
    And that my friend is whats called Democracy...;)


Advertisement
Advertisement