Sunday Times has new revelations on you know who....NOT letter related!

Biggins · 02-10-2011 02:20AM

BQQ wrote: »

I don't think it's fair to single out Dana. Everyone has strong personal views. Just because hers stem from a religious belief doesn't make her any different from the others.

For example, if the majority wanted to make homosexuality illegal, would Norris refuse to sign it?

He already said I think, a number of times that he would abide by the wishes of the people - as have a number of others.

Everyone does has strong personal views - but not everyone will allow them to interfear with the running of a state and override a possible voted for issue, one considered and voted for by an Irish majority in a democratic held referendum!
Dana said she would!

Spread · 02-10-2011 02:41AM

Biggins wrote: »

Just to let ye all know - The so called The Times (England) story is up.
Won't repeat word for word (copyright issues) but basically they have dug up an old story that Ezra Nawi assisted a sick man that was dying (in pain filled terminal stages) of AIDS, to take his own life.

Norris stated in a speech to the Seanad (on June 3, 1993) apparently:

The Times once again is just focusing on Norris and no one else.
After all there is no one else in this presidents race that has questions to answer!

Again, Norris is sailing close to the wind. In this case, so close that there could be a whiff of wills, insurance payments etc. Does his humongous ego rule out clear thinking? Can he not keep his trap shut on any issue? Do we need a President like that? If euthanasia was then banned ...... it was a criminal offence. Norris consorting with crims? He himself said,"that I'm already acting in a Presidential way". Goodnight!

finbarrk · 02-10-2011 02:49AM

nice_very wrote: »

so................. who does "the media" want as our next president? obviously not DN or MMG (2 of the front runners, following recent polls)

also, why are the media allowed to hound and analyse everything about these 2 candidates, and barely anything said about the rest?

Kind of obvious?

Biggins · 02-10-2011 02:49AM

Spread wrote: »

Again, Norris is sailing close to the wind. In this case, so close that there could be a whiff of wills, insurance payments etc. Does his humongous ego rule out clear thinking? Can he not keep his trap shut on any issue? Do we need a President like that? If euthanasia was then banned ...... it was a criminal offence. Norris consorting with crims? He himself said,"that I'm already acting in a Presidential way". Goodnight!

In fairness, we have other runners sailing close to the wind too - but is the Times regurgitating up stories about them?
Now resorting to having to try dig up old stuff in order to have a go!

* After all we only have one candidate that stated she won't sign things into law that she don't agree with personally! That stated on one hand "I want to work with everyone" but then won't work with the EU!

* Another that stated he wants a British head of state to run Ireland - and other apparently 'out-there' notions!

* A third (and the previous too) that has switched from one load of committees to others for years - with their MASSIVE wages to boot and perks/expenses/junkets!

* Another that outright LIED on national TV (The Late Late Show) saying "I do not come from a political background" but has!

* Another that is very anti-American and is so far left in some ideas, he'll take us over the cliffs of Donegal like lemmings!

Acting in a presidential way? Would the first person that is actually decent or supposedly snow white, please stand up for gawds sake!
...In the meantime - is The Times hounding them?

Spread · 02-10-2011 02:55AM

This is from Ireland.com

One of the most intriguing partnerships in the campaign is Mary Davis and her media-savvy husband Julian. He is an executive with PR and marketing firm Fleishman-Hillard and is well versed in political image-making. Speaking yesterday, he said he would be out on the hustings with his wife and their four children.
A spokesperson for Sean Gallagher said: "Yes, his wife will be with him. They are only just married a year or so and she has been canvassing for Sean a lot.''
So far, the most high-profile partner has been Michael D Higgins's wife, Sabrina, who is regularly seen in the background at media briefings, particularly during television appearances.
Dana Rosemary Scallon's husband, Damian, has also been very much in the public eye in recent days as she battled to get a last-minute nomination from various local authorities.
David Norris yesterday indicated he will not have a partner living with him in the Aras, should he be elected.
And indications are that the wife of Fine Gael nominee Gay Mitchell will not be taking a frontline role on the hustings.

Good God, I hope he'll not have a coven of pretty boys gambolling around in the undergrowth

Biggins · 02-10-2011 03:01AM

Spread wrote: »

..David Norris yesterday indicated he will not have a partner living with him in the Aras, should he be elected.

That was said two days ago (here)
Frankly, its a non-issue with me anyway. Its none of my business what he does relationship-wise.

Spread · 02-10-2011 03:08AM

Had not seen that Biggins. Surely with his mellifluous tones he should be able to pull a nice Irish boy. But his tastes seem more exotic. Parsimony doesn't help!

sdanseo · 02-10-2011 04:12AM

A view I don't agree with, but nonetheless it's on public record and despite my support in another thread which quickly turned to a retraction of my support for Norris, I still think there's a bit of an unfair witch-hunt. Nothing underhand about this in that it was as noted at the time, not in a letter.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/1993/06/03/00005.asp wrote:

I was very moved when a close friend of mine in Israel, who is a most fastidious person, gave up his job when one of our friends, called Rafi, developed AIDS. [960] Rafi's friend was in the airforce and could not look after him. My friend looked after him for six weeks in situations of considerable discomfort and uncleanliness. The man became incontinent and so on and died. A second friend of ours became ill with AIDS. He believed he was in a monogamous relationship, but unfortunately his partner was not monogamous and both of them contracted AIDS. This man died on his own, apart from the assistance which my friend Ezra gave to him. In the terminal stages, when he was no longer physically capable of administering whatever poisons he had accumulated with the intention of giving himself a dignified exit, he asked my friend to assist him to die, which he did. I found that an act of extraordinary courage and moral nobility.

I do not believe that I would have the courage to assist at a suicide, although I have never been placed in that situation. I believe it was the right thing to do in that case. If somebody whom one really cares about is in extraordinary distress, pain and discomfort, and if they know clearly what they are doing and they beg one to help them to end their life in dignity, which may be just a matter of 24, 36 or 48 hours, I believe it is a moral act to do so and I do not believe that it should be punished. I accept that there are arguments in this matter but on balance I would come down on that side.

lynski · 02-10-2011 09:13AM

you know what the more i see of Norris the more i like him. I have examined my conscience again and again in the past few weeks, but i cannot find in me to withdraw my support and i think i know why. like him or dislike him he actually is an open book, what he says can be taken at face value and he is honest. I cannot take anything said by any of the others on any such level of trust.
MMG - i am not sure he even knows when he is lying anymore
Dana - probably the only other one tellign the truth, but mad as a box of communion wafers
MD - know nothing about her but so far not inspiring trust
SG - do like him but he is trying to be a 'cute hoor'
GM and MDH - too long in the party political game no idea, no trust either.

SeaFields · 02-10-2011 09:31AM

It has come to the point that with much of the media in Ireland not wanting me to vote for Norris it is inclined to make me vote for Norris.

Min · 02-10-2011 10:34AM

Dana said the Irish constitution allows for religious freedom and it is her view that the seal of the confessional comes under religious freedom.
A lot of misinformation being spread about what Dana actually said.

Here is an Irish Times articles, which shows it is not a black and white issue.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0722/1224301127590.html

However, for the proposed legislation to enjoy the protection of this proviso to the guarantee of freedom of religion, it may be necessary to show, inter alia, that the legislative interference with the seal of the confessional is necessary in order to prevent the concealment of child abuse and that the proposed interference impairs the right of free practice of religion as little as possible.
I am far from suggesting that such legislation would be unconstitutional. However, the matter is a bit more complicated than simply ensuring the applicability of State law to the members of a private club.

Dana is more knowledgeable than some here who simply dismiss her.

For one to say they would sign it without consideration is to show they are not going to do a good job.
It could be unconstitutional and it is the job of the President to uphold the constitution.

dvpower · 02-10-2011 10:39AM

Spread wrote: »

Again, Norris is sailing close to the wind. In this case, so close that there could be a whiff of wills, insurance payments etc. Does his humongous ego rule out clear thinking? Can he not keep his trap shut on any issue? Do we need a President like that? If euthanasia was then banned ...... it was a criminal offence. Norris consorting with crims? He himself said,"that I'm already acting in a Presidential way". Goodnight!

Whiff of wills, insurance payments"???

The only whiff is that of your own excrement you are attempting to smear on this story.

Min · 02-10-2011 10:43AM

As for David Norris and the story, I don't think anyone could be surprised his former lover/convicted rapist friend, helped murder someone, sorry kill someone, sorry assist their death.

Sonnenblumen · 02-10-2011 10:49AM

darkman2 wrote: »

This has just been tweeted.

Should have the story before midnight. What could it be? Joe Jackson, Norris biographer, claims there are 3 "scandals" not letter related to come. Maybe this is the first of them.

Ah yes, The Sunday Times doing its best to become The Sunday Sun replacement for The News of the World?:eek:

Sam Vimes · 02-10-2011 10:52AM

Min wrote: »

As for David Norris and the story, I don't think anyone could be surprised his former lover/convicted rapist friend, helped murder someone, sorry kill someone, sorry assist their death.

Honestly now, you don't think that sentence is a little bit misleading no?

02-10-2011 10:52AM

These threads are becoming pathetic. Half of it speculating something based on a tweet just designed to get more readership. How about next time just wait for the actual article to be published?

Biggins · 02-10-2011 10:52AM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Ah yes, The Sunday Times doing its best to become The Sunday Sun replacement for The News of the World?:eek:

I think they are trying to fill in the gossip/back-stabbing gap till the stink dies down a bit more over the phone hacking scandal and a lot knowing the Sunday Sun will be the NOTW replacement.

rc28 · 02-10-2011 10:52AM

Min wrote: »

As for David Norris and the story, I don't think anyone could be surprised his former lover/convicted rapist friend, helped murder someone, sorry kill someone, sorry assist their death.

Wow :rolleyes:

Lord TSC · 02-10-2011 10:54AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Honestly now, you don't think that sentence is a little bit misleading no?

The entire media campaign against Norris has been based on taking a true story and sensationalising it anyway. Which I think is funny cause most of the stuff doesn't need to be sensationalised to be damamging anyway....

weldoninhio · 02-10-2011 11:02AM

sdeire wrote: »

A view I don't agree with, but nonetheless it's on public record and despite my support in another thread which quickly turned to a retraction of my support for Norris, I still think there's a bit of an unfair witch-hunt. Nothing underhand about this in that it was as noted at the time, not in a letter.

Is assisted death legal in Israel?? If not, did Senator Norris report this to the relevant authorities in Israel?? If not, why??

Sam Vimes · 02-10-2011 11:05AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Is assisted death legal in Israel?? If not, did Senator Norris report this to the relevant authorities in Israel?? If not, why??

Norris was also a gay man when being gay was illegal in Ireland. Should he have turned himself in to the authorities for violating an unjust law?

gbee · 02-10-2011 11:13AM

I am appalled at the roll out of allegation against Norris. If there is a constitutional reason that he should not proceed then the election must be halted and this processed in a court of law.

I work in the newspaper business, though laid off at the moment so not active, but I do have an inkling as to how they work.

They amass 'evidence' be that real or substantial, their readers will believe it anyway, they threaten to write if the candidate or subject does not to what they ask, like resign or make a statement.

they then 'go public' with the story but keep back some more 'evidence' just in case what they have is not strong enough ~

After a while is just becomes persecution and character assassination ~ if there is a case, make it, put it to the judge.

Otherwise I WILL vote Norris even if it's sympathy vote.

prinz · 02-10-2011 11:17AM

Min wrote: »

Dana said the Irish constitution allows for religious freedom and it is her view that the seal of the confessional comes under religious freedom. A lot of misinformation being spread about what Dana actually said..

+1, not to mention of course the little fact that laws requiring breaking the seal of confession were suggested in a number of US states (Maryland and New Hampshire IIRC) in recent years and have been rejected at state level as it was deemed to break the freedom of religion guarantee in the States. Won't stop plenty of gob****es still clamouring for the same thing to be done here, what Dana actually said (on that issue) has been supported in the US court.

As for the presidency where is the none of the above option. Currently I'm tiering the candidates..
Tier 1: M D Higgins, S Gallagher, M Davis, G Mitchell
Tier 2: D Norris, Dana
Non-runner: M McGuiness

Preferred option: None of the above.

Biggins · 02-10-2011 11:22AM

prinz wrote: »

+1, not to mention of course the little fact that laws requiring breaking the seal of confession were suggested in a number of US states (Maryland and New Hampshire IIRC) in recent years and have been rejected at state level as it was deemed to break the freedom of religion guarantee in the States. Won't stop plenty of gob****es still clamouring for the same thing to be done here, what Dana actually said (on that issue) has been supported in the US court.

Question: Why does it matter, what the hell what America does/thinks?
Whats that got to do with our state and constitution?
America can reject all the fcuk it wants - it makes no blind bit of difference or effect to Ireland!

prinz · 02-10-2011 11:23AM

Biggins wrote: »

Question: Why does it matter, what the hell what America does/thinks?
Whats that got to do with our state and constitution?
America can reject all the fcuk it wants - it makes no blind bit of difference or effect to Ireland!

Whatever you say...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0124/1224288161789.html

amacachi · 02-10-2011 11:27AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Norris was also a gay man when being gay was illegal in Ireland.

I wasn't aware of that.

Biggins · 02-10-2011 11:27AM

prinz wrote: »

Whatever you say...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0124/1224288161789.html

I think we need new judges if a few of our own lot can't think and assess our own laws/constitution for themselves - but thats a subject for another thread isn't it?

prinz · 02-10-2011 11:28AM

Biggins wrote: »

I think we need new judges if a few of our own lot can't think and assess our own laws/constitution for themselves - but thats a subject for another thread isn't it?

Don't you mean we need new judges if they don't do whatever you agree with?

Interestingly for the Eight Amendment to the Bunreacht people were arguing that the Irish Supreme Court should have adhered more closely to the American decision on Roe v Wade. Can never win apparently.

Biggins · 02-10-2011 11:30AM

prinz wrote: »

Don't you mean we need new judges if they don't do whatever you agree with?

No, we need new judges if a few of our own lot can't think and assess our own laws/constitution for themselves.

Read as its written above - not as you like to spin it.

Our own laws are so far out of date in a number of areas that there are MANY backed-up policy documents submitted, suggesting appropriate changes and and where to exactly, to the legal authorities of Ireland for assessment.
Its a damn sad day that they ignore them all so far and look instead to the states for some reason!

Sam Vimes · 02-10-2011 11:32AM

amacachi wrote: »

I wasn't aware of that.

I'm confused. Is my sarcasm detector broken or were you genuinely not aware that Norris was gay before 1993 when homosexuality was made legal in Ireland?

Sunday Times has new revelations on you know who....NOT letter related!

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