2% levy on most insurance policies to fund Quinn

14-09-2011 10:58AM

Guy was a sham. Everybody said that he was great for bringing jobs to a backwater like Cavan. The insurance company was the main driver of the jobs. But that was been run on gambling effectively (not in the mood for going through reserves etc.). Between this and the debts he owed Anglo - let's conservatively say €2 billion euro you could pay 6,000 people in Cavan to twiddle their thumbs for 11 years at 30k a pop. Same result... And he gets away with transferring 200 million or so to his kids - this is criminal.

another reason to get out of here indeed.

squod · 14-09-2011 12:41PM

If it wasn't bad enough that the tax payer had to front the bill for the Anglo bail-out fraud we're now expected to pay some €320m to cover Quinn insurance groups' losses in the UK.

According to an article on Newstalk (John Lowe: The Money Doctor) there's a shortfall of some €750m that Quinn is liable to pay for in it's UK operation. The attorney general here has ordered us (the Irish citizen) to pay a 2% levy on our home and car insurance to cover the outstanding balance of €320m. This will effect every company providing cover to Irish consumers.

FFS. What an abhorrent way to treat your paymasters.

smash · 14-09-2011 12:42PM

Already a thread about this

The Master · 14-09-2011 12:43PM

Multiple Threads Merged

starbelgrade · 14-09-2011 12:51PM

glasso wrote: »

Guy was a sham. Everybody said that he was great for bringing jobs to a backwater like Cavan.

He was great for bringing jobs to Cavan, but not great for this almighty fuck up.

I don't see what relevance Cavan has to do with it though, other than you making a jibe at it for being a "backwater".

It's not like you can't run a successful business outside of Dublin. Kingspan operates out of Cavan & is one of Ireland's biggest manufacturing firms.

Billy86 · 14-09-2011 12:53PM

I am surprised though, how many people are only hearing of this now? I probably took it for granted as public knowledge since I work in insurance, but it has been common-knowledge and I am quite sure mentioned in the papers since at least May.

I work in the sales end, and it would drive me nuts over the summer when people would give the line of "I would go with you guys, but Quinn have always been good to me" ... "they've always given me a fair price" ... "all the good he's done for this community/country" ... "he's a local, I have to support him" ... and so on, and so on.

Well, we're all supporting him now.

woodoo · 14-09-2011 12:55PM

Evaex wrote: »

What a modest house he owns though..

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00033/quinn_33672t.jpg

And he'll get to stay there as long as he wants. We will pick up the tab for his mistakes.

This is getting worse. Noonan should be told to clear off. He is a disgrace. Imagine asking us to pay for Sean Quinns mess while his family transfer assets to avoid paying up. Its beyond sickening.

Right now i hate FG as much as FF.

starbelgrade · 14-09-2011 01:11PM

woodoo wrote: »

Right now i hate FG as much as FF.

Why anyone ever thought that FG would be any different from FF is beyond me. Politically & economically they are & have always been two sides of the same coin.

mikemac · 14-09-2011 01:14PM

Ah but sure isn't Séan a grand man

The good people of Cavan won't hear a bad word about him

It's the Dublin meja again him....

squod · 14-09-2011 01:16PM

I thinks it's only now people are copping on to the kinds of things FF/FG are up to. Bit late n'all but at least some good might come of this in the following elections.

Sofiztikated · 14-09-2011 01:19PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

He was great for bringing jobs to Cavan, but not great for this almighty fuck up.

I don't see what relevance Cavan has to do with it though, other than you making a jibe at it for being a "backwater".

It's not like you can't run a successful business outside of Dublin. Kingspan operates out of Cavan & is one of Ireland's biggest manufacturing firms.

Once again, starbelgrade, it seems like you're the only one with a head on your shoulders.

Why call Cavan a backwater? Because it's not Dublin? If he had been based out of Dublin, then I'm sure the debt would have been higher, due to massive difference in the rents/wages, etc.

AeoNGriM · 14-09-2011 01:19PM

Silly question, but why is the taxpayer paying to bail out privately owned companies? How does the government have the power to force the average Joe to pay for these idiots mistakes?

Surely there's a case to be made that is is illegal through the court system? Perhaps through the European courts?

Sofiztikated · 14-09-2011 01:25PM

squod wrote: »

I thinks it's only now people are copping on to the kinds of things FF/FG are up to. Bit late n'all but at least some good might come of this in the following elections.

You'd think that. But due to the intelligence of the average Irish voter, because FG haven't brought us back to stellar highs, with champagne, BMW's and investment properties in Bulgaria for everyone, FF will probably get back in.

14-09-2011 01:35PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

He was great for bringing jobs to Cavan, but not great for this almighty fuck up.

I don't see what relevance Cavan has to do with it though, other than you making a jibe at it for being a "backwater".

It's not like you can't run a successful business outside of Dublin. Kingspan operates out of Cavan & is one of Ireland's biggest manufacturing firms.

well it is relevant in the sense that he was lauded for bringing jobs to an area deprived of same and as a result probably had greater leeway than otherwise to cut corners in the insurance casino operation that was being run up there.

starbelgrade · 15-09-2011 12:17AM

glasso wrote: »

well it is relevant in the sense that he was lauded for bringing jobs to an area deprived of same and as a result probably had greater leeway than otherwise to cut corners in the insurance casino operation that was being run up there.

What the hell are you on about?

Are you seriously suggesting that just because Quinn insurance was set up in Cavan that they were allowed leeway to cut corners on how they operated?

What about the fuck ups of the major banks in Ireland & their seriously dodgy lending practices that have the country in the shitter? All their head offices are in Dublin.

What difference does that make? None.

I don't know what the hell you are on about & I seriously doubt that you do either.

seanybiker · 15-09-2011 12:18AM

Meh to be honest 2% doesn't bother at all. I know it should but my insurance was shag all when I was with them so 2% is nothing.

woodoo · 15-09-2011 12:23AM

seanybiker wrote: »

Meh to be honest 2% doesn't bother at all. I know it should but my insurance was shag all when I was with them so 2% is nothing.

Sadly that is the attitude that has allowed the Government and the EU/IMF to take the complete piss out of the Irish and make us pay for all that bank debt. And now Sean Quinn's debt and God knows what next.

seanybiker · 15-09-2011 12:26AM

woodoo wrote: »

Sadly that is the attitude that has allowed the Government and the EU/IMF to take the complete piss out of the Irish and make us pay for all that bank debt. And now Sean Quinn's debt and God knows what next.

I'm only one person. They won't be making much off me

starbelgrade · 15-09-2011 12:42AM

seanybiker wrote: »

I'm only one person. They won't be making much off me

For every health insurance plan, the government already charge a premium of €160. So you'll be paying another 2% not just on that but on the balance of what you pay to your insurer.

That may not seem like much to you, but when you consider that 2,227,000 people in Ireland have health insurance, they already take in €365 million before your even start to calculate the 2% additional charge on the entire total of what the insurers take in, which is a massive amount of money.

And then add to that the universal social charge you pay every month & how much a trip to the doctor or dentist costs & the VAT you pay on that.

They may not be making much of you, but they are making billions alone from us for health costs & providing the utterly shit service that is the HSE in return for all that money.

Stuff like that may not bother you, but it certainly bothers anyone who gives a toss about what goes on in this country.

Not everybody belongs to the Me Fein school of politics.

jazyguy · 29-09-2011 11:24PM

How is Quinn not locked up already along with the rest of his cronies. I understand the complexity of theses cases but the Irish people really need to see some justice soon.

oppenheimer1 · 29-09-2011 11:49PM

I suppose this is a good time to post how we got here. The reason for the 2% levy is that for all intents and purposes Quinn insurance went bust, it lost control of the required capital reserves in order to be a licensed insurer and was in effect paying out claims wholly from premiums collected and was vulnerable to a shock - like say a major unexpected flood. It was in effect a ponzi scheme. Had this state of affairs been allowed to continue and a disaster struck, many people could have lost everything despite being insured, as Quinn wouldn't have the cash on hand to pay out. However Quinn was a licensed insurer so that offers the public some protection in case the above arises but the fund for this was inadequate to deal with the collapse of Quinn - so therefore it has to be increased. Its insurance for the insurer and as quinn was licensed (or in other words - held a policy) they are entitled to make a claim.

More important though is how Quinn lost its capital reserves when it was the cash cow of the quinn group. Sean Quinn wanted to take over anglo irish bank but without anyone knowing he was building up his share holding. He used "contracts for difference" and Quinns capital to finance it (or rather loans backed by Quinns capital to finance this). However as the property market began to unravel the share price of Anglo went into free fall and Quinn needed to get out or be destroyed. Enter the golden circle, who borrowed from anglo, with loans backed by anglo, to hoover up the Anglo shares that would have otherwise totally collapsed the market had Quinn dumped his entire holding onto the market. In the end Quinn lost a fortune on his gamble to take over the bank and thus the insurance companies capital was lost.

My take on it - may not be completely correct.

The Left Hand Of God · 29-09-2011 11:59PM

I remember years ago hearing a radio program about him and some one saying that he didn't have or own a mobile phone, like that is how good he was.

I remember thinking do they not realise he has about four saps around him with "his" mobiles.

He was a greedy prick. Like hundreds of millions were not enough.

He was trying to buy/take over Anglo for the record. he didn't just want the water from the fountain...he wanted the fountain.

General General · 30-09-2011 12:02AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I suppose this is a good time to post how we got here. The reason for the 2% levy is that for all intents and purposes Quinn insurance went bust, it lost control of the required capital reserves in order to be a licensed insurer and was in effect paying out claims wholly from premiums collected and was vulnerable to a shock - like say a major unexpected flood. It was in effect a ponzi scheme. Had this state of affairs been allowed to continue and a disaster struck, many people could have lost everything despite being insured, as Quinn wouldn't have the cash on hand to pay out. However Quinn was a licensed insurer so that offers the public some protection in case the above arises but the fund for this was inadequate to deal with the collapse of Quinn - so therefore it has to be increased. Its insurance for the insurer and as quinn was licensed (or in other words - held a policy) they are entitled to make a claim.

More important though is how Quinn lost its capital reserves when it was the cash cow of the quinn group. Sean Quinn wanted to take over anglo irish bank but without anyone knowing he was building up his share holding. He used "contracts for difference" and Quinns capital to finance it (or rather loans backed by Quinns capital to finance this). However as the property market began to unravel the share price of Anglo went into free fall and Quinn needed to get out or be destroyed. Enter the golden circle, who borrowed from anglo, with loans backed by anglo, to hoover up the Anglo shares that would have otherwise totally collapsed the market had Quinn dumped his entire holding onto the market. In the end Quinn lost a fortune on his gamble to take over the bank and thus the insurance companies capital was lost.

My take on it - may not be completely correct.

Well, you left out a lot of "stupid f.u.ck"s, "total c.un.t"s, "complete ars.eh.ole"s, "almighty sh!.thead"s & "utter pr!ck"s... but otherwise it was aok.

General General · 30-09-2011 12:08AM

The Left Hand Of God wrote: »

I remember years ago hearing a radio program about him and some one saying that he didn't have or own a mobile phone, like that is how good he was.

I remember thinking do they not realise he has about four saps around him with "his" mobiles.

He was a greedy prick. Like hundreds of millions were not enough.

He was trying to buy/take over Anglo for the record. he didn't just want the water from the fountain...he wanted the fountain.

Exactly... I always got the feeling that he & his fans thought of him as some kind of Irish Warren Buffett... & in a way he was, given that he was the closest the Celtic Tiger produced (I mean the low key homespun 'plays a game of poker for a dollar' bull).

Demonstrating how full of sh!t the Irish *big* business scene is...

squod · 30-09-2011 12:10AM

Can't blame Quinn for doing it if they're getting away with it. Any member of the government, judiciary, gardai or a citizen with a few bob could have blocked this. AFAIK this goes against the Irish constitution as we're bailing out Quinn's UK operation.

Another victory for FF/FG. Another loss for the citizen.

Liam Byrne · 30-09-2011 12:27AM

What is the story with taking this to the European Court ?

Because I'm sick to death of bailing out and paying off con-men, from Ahern to Callely to Quinn to Fitzpatrick to Ronan to a whole host of others.

I'll pay for health insurance, but I won't pay extra just to bail out those ****s.

In fact, the way Ireland is going, I'd nearly cancel the health insurance completely and take my chances.......other people have died for what they believe in, so if I get sick for what I believe in, it shouldn't be an issue.

Besides, knowing that I was paying more money out to bail out ****wits like this would make me more stressed out and ill, making it a catch 22.

Yup, I reckon that when this comes in I'll cancel the insurance.

Everyone else should do likewise.

It's time to call a halt to this crap.

Liam Byrne · 30-09-2011 12:45AM

Just sent this to taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie

Mr Kenny

I have just read with disgust your latest episode of forcing people to pay for the mistakes of others

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0928/quinn.html

This is about the 5th or 6th decision which is the exact opposite to the reasons why I voted for your party in the most recent election; the unguaranteed bondholders being the most recent disgusting decision.

I have no idea why you are continuing FF policies re making the majority pay for the sins of the few, but if you keep this up I will be making a decision to relocate myself and my company in another country which at least acts fairly and without this sickening thievery of what little we can earn in the current climate.

I can also guarantee you that your party will not be receiving another vote from me.

At the time that I voted for FG, a number of people were claiming that FG was no better than FF and would continue the policies re screwing innocent people. I chose to believe otherwise, and I am now regretfully forced to acknowledge that they were indeed correct.

Absolutely disgusted.

If my taxes were going somewhere worthwhile and improving services I would say one thing, but paying off the debts of idiots is absolutely despicable.

I am absolutely and utterly disillusioned as to where this country is going, and sickened that your party has betrayed me and disrespected my vote.

Liam Byrne
Limerick

squod · 30-09-2011 12:51AM

Voting for FF/FG and expecting things to change. No sympathy.

Liam Byrne · 30-09-2011 12:59AM

squod wrote: »

Voting for FF/FG and expecting things to change. No sympathy.

There is unfortunately not much choice in this country.......who would you suggest, leaving out independents who can't get anything done and terrorist sympathisers and apologists, what else is there ?

I like the concept of People Before Profit but they didn't run anyone in my area in order for me to look into them further.

Zebra3 · 30-09-2011 01:06AM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

There is unfortunately not much choice in this country.......who would you suggest, leaving out independents who can't get anything done and terrorist sympathisers and apologists, what else is there ?

I like the concept of People Before Profit but they didn't run anyone in my area in order for me to look into them further.

FG are part of the financial terrorist system.

Just look back at their bailout stealing of taxpayers' money to give to AIB in the 80s and their support for FF's bailout stealing of taxpayers' money a couple of years ago.

2% levy on most insurance policies to fund Quinn

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