Should there be a cap on social welfare payments?

thebman · 29-09-2011 09:54PM

gambiaman wrote: »

Lots of posts on here from some people who have not got the first clue about surviving on SW benefits. Every single one of the recent 'suggestions' are demeaning and dehumanising - as I've said repeatedly, looks like the media don't have their work cut out to persuade a lot of very ignorant people.

Who specifically are you accusing of that? Until recently I didn't have a job myself so I hope your not talking about me.

Giving someone a card to spend instead of cash is demeaning and dehumanising?

I think most people would find that offensive who have been subject to demeaning and dehumanising behavior TBH.

I just think it is ridiculous to expect money to be paid out to people out of work without any checks and balances to work out what it is being spent on and whether the money being paid out is in line with the actual cost of living.

donalg1 · 29-09-2011 10:02PM

noxqs wrote: »

when the PS get cut Greece style

I will have a heart attack from the glee or loose 10 pounds clapping my little hands in excitement. I hope they start from the highest paid and slash their way down.

Never gonna happen I'm afraid

Sir Oxman · 30-09-2011 01:06AM

thebman wrote: »

Who specifically are you accusing of that? Until recently I didn't have a job myself so I hope your not talking about me.

Giving someone a card to spend instead of cash is demeaning and dehumanising?

I think most people would find that offensive who have been subject to demeaning and dehumanising behavior TBH.

I just think it is ridiculous to expect money to be paid out to people out of work without any checks and balances to work out what it is being spent on and whether the money being paid out is in line with the actual cost of living.

You are one of the posters making ridiculous solutions up for problems that don't exist so yes, you're included.
Why the hell do you care what it's spent on? The vast majority goes straight back into the local economy.
Being out of work is dehumanising enough without some little upstart somewhere dictating when, where and what the recipient spends it on.
And I'll keep describing the irrational onslaught against unemployed workers as demonisation and dehumanising as long as it is exactly that.

It's uncovering all the big brother control freakery on the forums though, which can only be good.

fliball123 · 30-09-2011 10:18AM

donalg1 wrote: »

Never gonna happen I'm afraid

Really thats what they were saying in Greece this time last year....If Greece goes under Portugal is next and that will have a bad effect on Ireland IMO...continuing to tax people here is not acheiving what it is supposed to be achieving and to think that the CPA will remain in tact is deluded sure kenny has already gone back on 2 promises of not increasing income tax and not cutting the dole...watch out for the trifecta as the PS wage is cut and the CPA torn assunder

donalg1 · 30-09-2011 12:09PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Really thats what they were saying in Greece this time last year....If Greece goes under Portugal is next and that will have a bad effect on Ireland IMO...continuing to tax people here is not acheiving what it is supposed to be achieving and to think that the CPA will remain in tact is deluded sure kenny has already gone back on 2 promises of not increasing income tax and not cutting the dole...watch out for the trifecta as the PS wage is cut and the CPA torn assunder

They arent gonna be slashed here to the same extent as Greece, dont forget what this forum is about. The fact an unemployed person would have to be offered a job with a salary of 38k in order to be better off than they are on the dole means they cant slash ps pay as the majority of ps workers earn under the 38k. Alot of them earn well below the 38k and are closer to 28k.

But sure noxqs obviously works in the private sector and will be sitting their clapping her hands if the public sector wages are 'slashed', then nox will realise that her job is dependant on profit margins and cutting the wages of people spending money in the local communities will have to have an affect on private sector profit margins, meaning that noxqs' will have to take a pay cut or a cut in hours or may even be let go altogether, but sure then will sit at home moaning that the public service workers are horrible people getting paid too much and its time they were cut again. Love the way people like noxqs are calling for everyones wages / payments but their own to be cut. I mean lets not forget why we are in the mess, its people like nox that were working in the private sector 5 or 6 years ago laughing at the public service worker for being so dumb to work there for poor money when there is a load of money to be made in the private sector. these private sector workers are the ones who took out mortgages and loans they could never afford to repay all the while laughing at their public sector friends for living in a 3 bed semi d with average furnishings while they built their 2500sqft 5 bed house with top of the range finishings throughout. Now that they have realised they cant afford these mortgages as they took them out based on two years salary and not their normal salaries they received before the boom all of a sudden their public sector friends are demons who earn too much!!! Tis f***in ridiculous.

Sitting their clapping your hands because people have had their pay cut to cover your bad loans and debts noxqs, the arrogance and stupidity of your statement is unfathomable to most semi intelligent people.

You remind of the spokeswoman for small businesses, a year or so ago when the pension levy was being introduced she was in the times saying how small businesses had to cut staff numbers and hours because their businesses weren't making enough money and this wasnt fair so its only right ps workers have their wages cut!!!! Great Idea!!! And who did she think were the ones spending money in the small businesses, would love to hear from her now and ask her did the pay cuts she demanded have a positive or negative affect on the small shops and businesses that she was representing.

irishh_bob · 30-09-2011 12:22PM

donalg1 wrote: »

They arent gonna be slashed here to the same extent as Greece, dont forget what this forum is about. The fact an unemployed person would have to be offered a job with a salary of 38k in order to be better off than they are on the dole means they cant slash ps pay as the majority of ps workers earn under the 38k. Alot of them earn well below the 38k and are closer to 28k.

But sure noxqs obviously works in the private sector and will be sitting their clapping her hands if the public sector wages are 'slashed', then nox will realise that her job is dependant on profit margins and cutting the wages of people spending money in the local communities will have to have an affect on private sector profit margins, meaning that noxqs' will have to take a pay cut or a cut in hours or may even be let go altogether, but sure then will sit at home moaning that the public service workers are horrible people getting paid too much and its time they were cut again. Love the way people like noxqs are calling for everyones wages / payments but their own to be cut. I mean lets not forget why we are in the mess, its people like nox that were working in the private sector 5 or 6 years ago laughing at the public service worker for being so dumb to work there for poor money when there is a load of money to be made in the private sector. these private sector workers are the ones who took out mortgages and loans they could never afford to repay all the while laughing at their public sector friends for living in a 3 bed semi d with average furnishings while they built their 2500sqft 5 bed house with top of the range finishings throughout. Now that they have realised they cant afford these mortgages as they took them out based on two years salary and not their normal salaries they received before the boom all of a sudden their public sector friends are demons who earn too much!!! Tis f***in ridiculous.

Sitting their clapping your hands because people have had their pay cut to cover your bad loans and debts noxqs, the arrogance and stupidity of your statement is unfathomable to most semi intelligent people.

You remind of the spokeswoman for small businesses, a year or so ago when the pension levy was being introduced she was in the times saying how small businesses had to cut staff numbers and hours because their businesses weren't making enough money and this wasnt fair so its only right ps workers have their wages cut!!!! Great Idea!!! And who did she think were the ones spending money in the small businesses, would love to hear from her now and ask her did the pay cuts she demanded have a positive or negative affect on the small shops and businesses that she was representing.

hate to bust your bubble but your at least twelve months too late with your revisionism about public sector workers having been laughed at during the boom by private sector workers , that union concocted myth has been debunked long ago and isnt even trotted out by public sector workers or unions anymore for that matter , public sector workers earned more than private sector workers right throughout the boom and the gap had widenend in the past three to four years

donalg1 · 30-09-2011 12:38PM

irishh_bob wrote: »

hate to bust your bubble but your at least twelve months too late with your revisionism about public sector workers having been laughed at during the boom by private sector workers , that union concocted myth has been debunked long ago and isnt even trotted out by public sector workers or unions anymore for that matter , public sector workers earned more than private sector workers right throughout the boom and the gap had widenend in the past three to four years

:rolleyes:

Hate to bust your bubble but i actually saw my electrician friend laugh in the face of a lad who started a job in the ps five years ago, laughed in his face he did cause he was earning 750 per week before he even did any nixers when the other lads starting pay was 24k per annum so dont tell me it's a concocted story when i saw it with my own eyes.

The same electrician lad then turned around two years ago and asked him if there was any way he could get a job in the ps and asked him to let him know if he hears of any positions coming up, needless to say my ps friend turned around and laughed in his face!!!

You wanna talk conspiracies there is a whole forum on here about them so off ya go, there is a right one going now about Nicholas Cage being a Vampire.

People like noxqs pi** me right off laughing because someone has had a pay cut, get a f***ing life loser, if thats what you are laughing at people for its obviously because they earn more than you because they are worth more than you and have achieved more than you. This isnt a private v public sector thread its a social welfare should be capped thread so noxqs can gtfo or better still have that heart attack and f.o.a.d.

murphaph · 30-09-2011 12:49PM

donalg1 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Hate to bust your bubble but i actually saw my electrician friend laugh in the face of a lad who worked started a job in the ps five years ago, laughed in his face so dont tell me it's a concocted story when i saw it with my own eyes. You wanna talk conspiracies there is a whole forum on here about them so off ya go, there is a right one going now about Nicholas Cage being a Vampire.

Lol, you think the entire private sector is/was made up of overpaid tradesmen? Don't forget the assembly line workers or the people in Spar who made your breakfast rolls. A minority of the private sector (almost exclusively related to construction) made a killing during the boom. The rest of us worked our jobs and had no fantasy pay rates and wer enot laughing at PS workers because the PS was and is relatively well paid.

Those laughing electricians etc. are mostly on the dole now btw.

fliball123 · 30-09-2011 12:50PM

donalg1 wrote: »

They arent gonna be slashed here to the same extent as Greece, dont forget what this forum is about. The fact an unemployed person would have to be offered a job with a salary of 38k in order to be better off than they are on the dole means they cant slash ps pay as the majority of ps workers earn under the 38k. Alot of them earn well below the 38k and are closer to 28k.

But sure noxqs obviously works in the private sector and will be sitting their clapping her hands if the public sector wages are 'slashed', then nox will realise that her job is dependant on profit margins and cutting the wages of people spending money in the local communities will have to have an affect on private sector profit margins, meaning that noxqs' will have to take a pay cut or a cut in hours or may even be let go altogether, but sure then will sit at home moaning that the public service workers are horrible people getting paid too much and its time they were cut again. Love the way people like noxqs are calling for everyones wages / payments but their own to be cut. I mean lets not forget why we are in the mess, its people like nox that were working in the private sector 5 or 6 years ago laughing at the public service worker for being so dumb to work there for poor money when there is a load of money to be made in the private sector. these private sector workers are the ones who took out mortgages and loans they could never afford to repay all the while laughing at their public sector friends for living in a 3 bed semi d with average furnishings while they built their 2500sqft 5 bed house with top of the range finishings throughout. Now that they have realised they cant afford these mortgages as they took them out based on two years salary and not their normal salaries they received before the boom all of a sudden their public sector friends are demons who earn too much!!! Tis f***in ridiculous.

Sitting their clapping your hands because people have had their pay cut to cover your bad loans and debts noxqs, the arrogance and stupidity of your statement is unfathomable to most semi intelligent people.

You remind of the spokeswoman for small businesses, a year or so ago when the pension levy was being introduced she was in the times saying how small businesses had to cut staff numbers and hours because their businesses weren't making enough money and this wasnt fair so its only right ps workers have their wages cut!!!! Great Idea!!! And who did she think were the ones spending money in the small businesses, would love to hear from her now and ask her did the pay cuts she demanded have a positive or negative affect on the small shops and businesses that she was representing.

I call bull on your last post firstly most PS are under 38k have you any links the average is 54k with 1/4 of a billion annual increments going on.

As for this noxq person..I think everyone knows that they will be paying more tax...If you look at cuts to private and public sector there is no comparison...Private sector has been obliterated...either by cuts in jobs, hours or pay...And sorry but you are paid too much time for round 3 of benchmarking....if it worked for increasing wage this mechanism should be used to do the same. It will also sort out those at the lower end saying they are not paid enough well if its proven in another bout of benchmarking bring them up but Id hazard a guess that about 90 to 95% of people working the PS if they got benchmarked on the same criteria as before would face at least a 10% pay decrease. Sorry didnt public sector workers take out mortgages too..I seem to remember a certain Joe Duffy episode when you guys got your pension levy and this fecker of a teacher who was on strike ..was up the north shopping not striking at all and crying that she may not be able to afford her 2nd holiday home in Bulgaria...The Public sector minted it just as much as the Private sector my friend. Remember we owe at present 149 billion out of that 50 billiion is because of bank...so nearly double that is to pay ridiculous dole and PS triple Ps and while we get a further degradation in our public service as thats what the gov think prudent to cut we will be asked to bend over that little bit further and lub ourselves up for more income tax and property tax and water charges...

As for fairness...do you think its fair that over 400k private sector workers have joined the dole queue in the last 4 years...??? How many full time PS employees have been forced onto the dole queue? Answer is none even if someone in there is sitting there scratching their holes they will not get sacked...So you had a 7% pay cut and ye poor lambs the gov made you pay 7% for you pensions...oh the fcuking shock..Will you wake up and live in the real world...4 businesses a week are going to the wall..Unemployment has yet again increased this month...Emigration (of working people) is on the up meaning less tax take..The people on the dole face a really big cut this year...and although the tax payer has had their effective rate of tax increased from 46 to 59% they will have to fork out more in water charges, toll roads, USC and income tax...and you see it right that everything is hit but the 18 odd billion we pay on the Public sectors triple Ps (pension/pay and perks) should be untouched...What needs to happen is dole needs to be slashed as well as the ps numbers and wage...sorry but we can no longer pay it...As for not slashing like Greece maybe not a 50% cut but if things deteriorate like say our Export led recovery falls on its face...What other choice will the gov have

donalg1 · 30-09-2011 01:03PM

fliball123 wrote: »

I call bull on your last post firstly most PS are under 38k have you any links the average is 54k with 1/4 of a billion annual increments going on.

As for this noxq person..I think everyone knows that they will be paying more tax...If you look at cuts to private and public sector there is no comparison...Private sector has been obliterated...either by cuts in jobs, hours or pay...And sorry but you are paid too much time for round 3 of benchmarking....if it worked for increasing wage this mechanism should be used to do the same. It will also sort out those at the lower end saying they are not paid enough well if its proven in another bout of benchmarking bring them up but Id hazard a guess that about 90 to 95% of people working the PS if they got benchmarked on the same criteria as before would face at least a 10% pay decrease. Sorry didnt public sector workers take out mortgages too..I seem to remember a certain Joe Duffy episode when you guys got your pension levy and this fecker of a teacher who was on strike ..was up the north shopping not striking at all and crying that she may not be able to afford her 2nd holiday home in Bulgaria...The Public sector minted it just as much as the Private sector my friend. Remember we owe at present 149 billion out of that 50 billiion is because of bank...so nearly double that is to pay ridiculous dole and PS triple Ps and while we get a further degradation in our public service as thats what the gov think prudent to cut we will be asked to bend over that little bit further and lub ourselves up for more income tax and property tax and water charges...

As for fairness...do you think its fair that over 400k private sector workers have joined the dole queue in the last 4 years...??? How many full time PS employees have been forced onto the dole queue? Answer is none even if someone in there is sitting there scratching their holes they will not get sacked...So you had a 7% pay cut and ye poor lambs the gov made you pay 7% for you pensions...oh the fcuking shock..Will you wake up and live in the real world...4 businesses a week are going to the wall..Unemployment has yet again increased this month...Emigration (of working people) is on the up meaning less tax take..The people on the dole face a really big cut this year...and although the tax payer has had their effective rate of tax increased from 46 to 59% they will have to fork out more in water charges, toll roads, USC and income tax...and you see it right that everything is hit but the 18 odd billion we pay on the Public sectors triple Ps (pension/pay and perks) should be untouched...What needs to happen is dole needs to be slashed as well as the ps numbers and wage...sorry but we can no longer pay it...As for not slashing like Greece maybe not a 50% cut but if things deteriorate like say our Export led recovery falls on its face...What other choice will the gov have

PS Workers will have to pay water charges toll road Usc and income tax too wont they?????????

Where did i say they shouldnt be cut???? Please quote my posts and show me where i directly said no ps worker should be cut.

I think i showed what happens when you cut wages (businesses go to the wall and people become unemployed)

Every employed person in this country needs to contribute best way is an increase in income tax, and social welfare needs to be reduced that way everyone pays and no more of this crap of 'ireland is screwed so you should take a pay cut but i shouldnt......blah blah blah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blah.

If you dont want to contribute then you know where the airport is.

fliball123 · 30-09-2011 01:10PM

donalg1 wrote: »

PS Workers will have to pay water charges toll road Usc and income tax too wont they?????????

Where did i say they shouldnt be cut???? Please quote my posts and show me where i directly said no ps worker should be cut.

I think i showed what happens when you cut wages (businesses go to the wall and people become unemployed)

Every employed person in this country needs to contribute best way is an increase in income tax, and social welfare needs to be reduced that way everyone pays and no more of this crap of 'ireland is screwed so you should take a pay cut but i shouldnt......blah blah blah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blahblah blah.

If you dont want to contribute then you know where the airport is.

Yeah but do you deem it correct that what we spend 18billion of it is protected under the CPA why cant we have benchmarking 3? I aggree welfare should be (important part in bold) and will be reduced ..As for your increase in tax we already pay nearly 60% of what we earn on taxes.more and more people are leaving the tax net due to joining the dole or emigrating...Look at the point of diminishing returns with tax take in Ireland it was reached and surpassed in the last budget and your answer is to hit them again...Will you go read Economic for dummys and stop attacking the poster attack the post..I think I have asked you a fair few questions such as the one above about benchmarking 3 aswell as what happens if our export led recovery (which sector is that again

) falls on its hole what do we do...You can spout more taxes which is failing ...All I am looking for is for fairness in whats cut...Its no longer appropriate to be spending 18 billion on Public sector tripple ps its over half what we take in with tax.

thebman · 30-09-2011 01:48PM

gambiaman wrote: »

You are one of the posters making ridiculous solutions up for problems that don't exist so yes, you're included.
Why the hell do you care what it's spent on? The vast majority goes straight back into the local economy.
Being out of work is dehumanising enough without some little upstart somewhere dictating when, where and what the recipient spends it on.
And I'll keep describing the irrational onslaught against unemployed workers as demonisation and dehumanising as long as it is exactly that.

It's uncovering all the big brother control freakery on the forums though, which can only be good.

No actually I'm just saying things you don't like to hear...

There are obvious benefits to knowing what welfare is being spent on and being able to track what it is being spent on.

Half of what you are saying actually is completely irrelevant to what I proposed and is something my idea is mostly designed to ensure doesn't happen while allowing the advantages of getting data.

But sure don't let stop you trying to shout it down with lies. Saying when you get money from the state that it has no right to know what it is being spent on is childish at best TBH.

donalg1 · 30-09-2011 02:02PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Yeah but do you deem it correct that what we spend 18billion of it is protected under the CPA why cant we have benchmarking 3? I aggree welfare should be (important part in bold) and will be reduced ..As for your increase in tax we already pay nearly 60% of what we earn on taxes.more and more people are leaving the tax net due to joining the dole or emigrating...Look at the point of diminishing returns with tax take in Ireland it was reached and surpassed in the last budget and your answer is to hit them again...Will you go read Economic for dummys and stop attacking the poster attack the post..I think I have asked you a fair few questions such as the one above about benchmarking 3 aswell as what happens if our export led recovery (which sector is that again ) falls on its hole what do we do...You can spout more taxes which is failing ...All I am looking for is for fairness in whats cut...Its no longer appropriate to be spending 18 billion on Public sector tripple ps its over half what we take in with tax.

I will attack a poster lick nox all day especially when they make such stupid comments. I will again stress the point everyone in this country needs to be cut end of story.

It needs to start with SW and more importantly Rent Allowance.

The reason i attacked noxqs was because of the way she laughs about peoples pay being cut obviously displaying a pretty horrible attitude and showing the world how disgusting a person they are.

And why should someone working in the local spar shop be paid more than a ps worker. When you consider they stand at a till all day saying "hi, how are you, that's €1 please, thanks have a nice day" (and even that much is a stretch for most of them these days, given that you might just about get a grunt outta half them), compare that job to someone in the ps who needs even a basic knowledge of computer systems, who needs to be able to remember the ins and outs of over 60 social welfare payments, why shouldnt that ps worker be paid more than the spar worker. What qualification does someone need to work in spar?

And you say all you are looking for is fairness in cuts, well thats exactly what i have said too.

30-09-2011 02:03PM

donalg1 banned for personal abuse.

Everyone else take a deep breath and calm down before posting, thanks

Sir Oxman · 30-09-2011 05:22PM

thebman wrote: »

No actually I'm just saying things you don't like to hear...

There are obvious benefits to knowing what welfare is being spent on and being able to track what it is being spent on.

Half of what you are saying actually is completely irrelevant to what I proposed and is something my idea is mostly designed to ensure doesn't happen while allowing the advantages of getting data.

But sure don't let stop you trying to shout it down with lies. Saying when you get money from the state that it has no right to know what it is being spent on is childish at best TBH.

Point out where I have lied?
Thank you.

Where exactly do you think JSB/A goes?
Sun holidays? Trips to Las Vegas perhaps? Paddy Power? The boozer? Tobacco? Other drugs? Gucci handbags?
Or is it ESB/Gas/Oil/Solid fuel bills? Internet access? Food? Stamps? Printing CVs? Busfares? Phonecalls? Petrol? School 'contributions'?

You're right, I don't like hearing OTT schemes designed to track approx 5% of claimants who are spongers and lazy gets who'd piss their money up against the nearest wall which ends up boxing in and demeaning the other 95% just so a few outraged Indo readers can breathe more easily after reading, swallowing and extrapolating the latest BS being spun.

Anyway, you may get your way eventually because who'd ever have thought the government would raid private pensions to fund the devaluation of paid labour and call it a jobs initiative?

thebman · 30-09-2011 06:43PM

gambiaman wrote: »

Point out where I have lied?
Thank you.

dictating when, where and what the recipient spends it on.

I didn't propose dictating when, where and what the recipient spends their money on.

irrational onslaught against unemployed workers as demonisation and dehumanising as long as it is exactly that.

It is not an irrational onslaught against unemployed workers or demonisation or dehumanising. To describe using a card instead of cash using such words is ridiculous TBH.

It's uncovering all the big brother control freakery on the forums though, which can only be good.

It is not big brother freakery :rolleyes:

It is merely changing cash for a card to collect data which can be analysed for any number of purposes. One is fraud, the other is working out if the amounts paid out in general match the cost of living etc... and if it needs to go up or down.

It would allow a much better case for working out the general cost of living than at present. And if you have a credit card or debit card, it is likely your bank already collects this information about you so I don't see the issue with expanding to social welfare recipients.

Your simply throwing generally abusive words at my post with no actual point being made as far as I can see.

Sir Oxman · 30-09-2011 08:59PM

thebman wrote: »

I didn't propose dictating when, where and what the recipient spends their money on.

It is not an irrational onslaught against unemployed workers or demonisation or dehumanising. To describe using a card instead of cash using such words is ridiculous TBH.

It is not big brother freakery :rolleyes:

It is merely changing cash for a card to collect data which can be analysed for any number of purposes. One is fraud, the other is working out if the amounts paid out in general match the cost of living etc... and if it needs to go up or down.

It would allow a much better case for working out the general cost of living than at present. And if you have a credit card or debit card, it is likely your bank already collects this information about you so I don't see the issue with expanding to social welfare recipients.

Your simply throwing generally abusive words at my post with no actual point being made as far as I can see.

They aren't 'lies', they are my opinions!
And I haven't thrown abuse at you or your posts - I've opposed it and others who think along your lines.

Finnbar01 · 03-10-2011 04:42PM

Yes, there should be.

woodoo · 18-10-2011 07:31PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Really thats what they were saying in Greece this time last year....If Greece goes under Portugal is next and that will have a bad effect on Ireland IMO...continuing to tax people here is not acheiving what it is supposed to be achieving and to think that the CPA will remain in tact is deluded sure kenny has already gone back on 2 promises of not increasing income tax and not cutting the dole...watch out for the trifecta as the PS wage is cut and the CPA torn assunder

Filiball i think you have become so tunnel visioned and obsessed with a cut to the PS. That you have convinced yourself that cutting them will cure Ireland of its ills. It won't not by a long shot.

Degsy · 19-10-2011 12:05AM

woodoo wrote: »

Filiball i think you have become so tunnel visioned and obsessed with a cut to the PS. That you have convinced yourself that cutting them will cure Ireland of its ills. It won't not by a long shot.

I honestly dont know how he gets away with his almost insane gibbering and baffling antipathy towards the PS.

If you were to substitute the word "Nigerians" for "PS" everytime he makes a sweeping and ill-informed generalisation he would have been perma-banned years ago.

fliball123 · 20-10-2011 11:18AM

woodoo wrote: »

Filiball i think you have become so tunnel visioned and obsessed with a cut to the PS. That you have convinced yourself that cutting them will cure Ireland of its ills. It won't not by a long shot.

Whats tunnel visioned about it..its actually very simple maths..

We make 30 billion
We Pay 48 billion
Deficit to make up each year 18 billion

out of the 48 we pay 22 on dole 18 on PS tripple and the rest on Public services..

now 2 out of these 3 will be cut ...why not PS tripple ..For every Euro not cut in PS pay means it will be taken from my wage in tax..Simple maths there for you...No tunnel and no obsession just pure fact

fliball123 · 20-10-2011 11:20AM

Degsy wrote: »

I honestly dont know how he gets away with his almost insane gibbering and baffling antipathy towards the PS.

If you were to substitute the word "Nigerians" for "PS" everytime he makes a sweeping and ill-informed generalisation he would have been perma-banned years ago.

I get away with it because the only people who think its ill informed are people within the ps

liammur · 20-10-2011 11:55AM

fliball123 wrote: »

I get away with it because the only people who think its ill informed are people within the ps

I don't work in the PS and I think you are way off. I believe cuts need to be made there, but as someone said, that alone won't solve our problems.

fliball123 · 20-10-2011 11:58AM

liammur wrote: »

I don't work in the PS and I think you are way off. I believe cuts need to be made there, but as someone said, that alone won't solve our problems.

No it wont but why should it immune from cuts...I would like to see cuts implemented in a fair way such as benchmarking 3 using the same mechanism which was used to increase the PS wage during the boom ..This would be the fairest way as it would take into account the cuts they already had and the pension levy

liammur · 20-10-2011 12:00PM

fliball123 wrote: »

No it wont but why should it immune from cuts...I would like to see cuts implemented in a fair way such as benchmarking 3 using the same mechanism which was used to increase the PS wage during the boom ..This would be the fairest way as it would take into account the cuts they already had and the pension levy

I would like to see the €14K subsidy to the MNC sector scrapped. This is unfair on some Irish companies. Everything won't always be fair.

fliball123 · 20-10-2011 12:01PM

liammur wrote: »

I would like to see the €14K subsidy to the MNC sector scrapped. This is unfair on some Irish companies. Everything won't always be fair.

Someone has already asked you to break that down with regards to payment and benefits of this 14k...What is it I never heard of it??

liammur · 20-10-2011 12:06PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Someone has already asked you to break that down with regards to payment and benefits of this 14k...What is it I never heard of it??

It's not just the PS where there's waste.
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That’s in comparison with a cost of €14,287 for each job created by IDA Ireland and €12,254 for any job created by Enterprise Ireland. The official figures were supplied to the Dáil Committee on Jobs, Social Protection and Education
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Anita M. · 20-10-2011 12:07PM

The problem is that people who do not really need it get the most. The money handed out is devided into little bits and spread over a wide range of entitlements and for each euro or so a new form has to be filled out and send up. Backdating does not usually occur. People who really need it usually have not got the energy left at the end of the day to go for all these little amounts as they have to spend the day fending for what little they have and trying to keep on going. It would be better if the people who are entitled to one thing with the same requirements as another payment were to automatically receive that payment as well. Also disabled people should not receive a lower basic amount compared to the other categories, and they should be allowed to work and not told to give up their jobs (often only a few hours a week).

harr · 20-10-2011 12:38PM

Hi
well my situation is that i am on carers allowance,i get 170 euro a week my wife works full time,we have 2 cars, which we need because our young lad has so many hospital appointments i need a car and my wife needs to get to work so she needs a car.
My wife's wages cover the cost of her car and the mortgage every month so that leaves my 170 to cover the cost of my car all bills and all food shopping for the week,twice last month we had to go without a proper dinner so the kids could have a good dinner and twice last month i ran out of fuel for the car and had to borrow money so i could get the child to his appointments.
If we ask the social for help they refuse because my wife has a full time job so we don't qualify for any extra help.Would i like to work dame right i would, i had been working since i was 15 and was never out of work till the young lad was born.So when people start labelling everybody on social payments as lazy god for nothing it pisses me off,have a child with special needs is a full time job 24 hours a day so i dont get much of a chance to be lazy and sit on my hole all day.
The worst thing is i live be side a unmarried mother,who gets her rent paid,dole and money from the childs father,now she sits on her hole all day drives a decent car and gets a holiday every year and is still able to go out every weekend.
So folks before you label all of us on social payments good for nothings think about us that are barely able to survive from week to week.
I have had my payments cut 3 times in the last 3 years and another cut would probable send us under.

liammur · 20-10-2011 12:52PM

harr wrote: »

Hi
well my situation is that i am on carers allowance,i get 170 euro a week my wife works full time,we have 2 cars, which we need because our young lad has so many hospital appointments i need a car and my wife needs to get to work so she needs a car.
My wife's wages cover the cost of her car and the mortgage every month so that leaves my 170 to cover the cost of my car all bills and all food shopping for the week,twice last month we had to go without a proper dinner so the kids could have a good dinner and twice last month i ran out of fuel for the car and had to borrow money so i could get the child to his appointments.
If we ask the social for help they refuse because my wife has a full time job so we don't qualify for any extra help.Would i like to work dame right i would, i had been working since i was 15 and was never out of work till the young lad was born.So when people start labelling everybody on social payments as lazy god for nothing it pisses me off,have a child with special needs is a full time job 24 hours a day so i dont get much of a chance to be lazy and sit on my hole all day.
The worst thing is i live be side a unmarried mother,who gets her rent paid,dole and money from the childs father,now she sits on her hole all day drives a decent car and gets a holiday every year and is still able to go out every weekend.
So folks before you label all of us on social payments good for nothings think about us that are barely able to survive from week to week.
I have had my payments cut 3 times in the last 3 years and another cut would probable send us under.

That's why most wouldn't rate fliball123's analysis.

Should there be a cap on social welfare payments?

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