Bankers: "can I haz more money plz"

The Outside Agency · 27-09-2011 07:05AM #1

Is there really a catastrophe around the corner if the Europeans don't agree to print $5 trillion in order to "stabalise the market" or is this yet another example of bankers thinking about christmas around the corner and their big year end bonuses at the expense of tax paying imbeciles?

The media would have us believe that the end of the world is upon us unless the ECB agree to print out trillions of euro to help "restore confidence" in the markets

Are these bankers genuinely concerned about the welfare of the general population or just looking for more free money to gamble with?

When has creating more debt solved a debt problem?

If the credit we create is not interest free debt and the banks get most of it and spend most it, are we not merely suspending the inevitable credit crunch while allowing bankers to continue gambling on the world stage making the problem worse?

27-09-2011 07:11AM

See that new Intel facility everyone was happy about? That won't happen if the euro collapses. It is actually serious.

These aren't private banks we're talking about.. It's governments. You should really think about how destroyed Ireland will be if it goes up in smoke.

Chuck Stone · 27-09-2011 07:26AM

Does anyone else feel like were approaching the edge of a cliff sometimes?

Sometimes I
Fantasize
When the streets are cold and lonely
And the cars they burn below me
Don't these times
Fill your eyes

When the streets are cold and lonely
And the cars they burn below me
Are you all alone
Is anybody home

I'm standing warm against the cold
Now that the flames have taken hold
At least you left your life in style

And for as far as I can see
Tin twisted grills grin back at me
Bad money dies
I love the scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5W1KQflz-o&feature=related

Crazy Horse 6 · 27-09-2011 09:02AM

This is what happens when you don't get out and protest and stand up for yourselves the powerful elites just keep on buggering you. People are still under the illusion that the government run this country (or the world for that matter) they don't, it's the banks and finance companies that call the shots. It's like the whole president campaign we are hearing about at present 24/7 on the airwaves and on the TV it makes NO difference to the average Joe or Jane on the street yet it's all people are talking about whilst the real issues are hidden away from the worker bees glare.

listermint · 27-09-2011 09:06AM

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

This is what happens when you don't get out and protest and stand up for yourselves the powerful elites just keep on buggering you. People are still under the illusion that the government run this country (or the world for that matter) they don't, it's the banks and finance companies that call the shots. It's like the whole president campaign we are hearing about at present 24/7 on the airwaves and on the TV it makes NO difference to the average Joe or Jane on the street yet it's all people are talking about whilst the real issues are hidden away from the worker bees glare.

You appear to be under some insane illusion that this is an Irish issue. Every Country in the world is on the edge of the swaney. And unless some INTERNATIONAL hard and tough decisions are taken were all in the shiz.

Its ridiculous that they didnt resolve this 2 years ago but the ECB was quite happy to try let the markets stabilise and work it all out for them. That didnt happen and here we are now...

digme · 27-09-2011 09:30AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15059135

Crazy Horse 6 · 27-09-2011 01:10PM

listermint wrote: »

You appear to be under some insane illusion that this is an Irish issue. Every Country in the world is on the edge of the swaney. And unless some INTERNATIONAL hard and tough decisions are taken were all in the shiz.

Its ridiculous that they didnt resolve this 2 years ago but the ECB was quite happy to try let the markets stabilise and work it all out for them. That didnt happen and here we are now...

Emm that's the reason i put "every country in the world" in my post. Please read posts before jumping to conclusion thanks.

ScumLord · 27-09-2011 01:20PM

I think more and more this is all just one big land/wealth grab by the top banks and was all orchestrated for that purpose.

I don't think economies really will collapse as it would be like a farmer going out and poisoning all his livestock.

I would prefer to see the lot collapse at this stage so that people would see how futile and anti-people our economies really are. It could be the dawn of a new age.

Monty Burnz · 27-09-2011 01:29PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I think more and more this is all just one big land/wealth grab by the top banks and was all orchestrated for that purpose.

I don't think economies really will collapse as it would be like a farmer going out and poisoning all his livestock.

Nobody is orchestrating this, I can assure you. It couldn't be orchestrated if you tried: the world's most powerful governments have been trying to orchestrate a solution for 4 years or so at this stage, and you can see how well it has gone.

ScumLord wrote: »

I would prefer to see the lot collapse at this stage so that people would see how futile and anti-people our economies really are. It could be the dawn of a new age.

Yup. The new stone age.

4leto · 27-09-2011 01:29PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I think more and more this is all just one big land/wealth grab by the top banks and was all orchestrated for that purpose.

I don't think economies really will collapse as it would be like a farmer going out and poisoning all his livestock.

I would prefer to see the lot collapse at this stage so that people would see how futile and anti-people our economies really are. It could be the dawn of a new age.

Do you really believe that.

If our economy collapses you will see empty supermarkets and Irish people starving on the streets. There would be no fuel, no power and general chaos. That is how serious an economic collapse would be, think Zimbabwe.

Killer Pigeon · 27-09-2011 01:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

See that new Intel facility everyone was happy about? That won't happen if the euro collapses. It is actually serious.

These aren't private banks we're talking about.. It's governments. You should really think about how destroyed Ireland will be if it goes up in smoke.

The €uro crash is inevitable at this stage. The best thing our government can do now is to pull out of the €uro, ECB and the European Monetary Union, introduce a Gold/Silver standard Punt that isn't control by a Central Bank and implement a free-market economy with reduced taxes so that multinationals like Intel will still be interested in Ireland.

4leto · 27-09-2011 01:43PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

The €uro crash is inevitable at this stage. The best thing our government can do now is to pull out of the €uro, ECB and the European Monetary Union, introduce a Gold/Silver standard Punt that isn't control by a Central Bank and implement a free-market economy with reduced taxes so that multinationals like Intel will still be interested in Ireland.

No
You make the massive assumption that the new punt would be worth the same as the Euro.

It wont be, it would be probably worth a third of what the Euro is. So with the massive inflation and the industrial unrest that that will cause Intel and the others would pull out.

Killer Pigeon · 27-09-2011 01:46PM

4leto wrote: »

No
You make the massive assumption that the new punt would be worth the same as the Euro.

Did I say anything to that effect? However you could say that my proposal for a new punt would actually incur less inflation and therefore be worth more that the €uro. Almost on par with the Pound Sterling.

4leto wrote: »

It wont be, it would be probably worth a third of what the Euro is. So with the massive inflation and the industrial unrest that that will cause Intel and the others would pull out.

You assume that there would be inflation but how?

ScumLord · 27-09-2011 01:48PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Nobody is orchestrating this, I can assure you. It couldn't be orchestrated if you tried: the world's most powerful governments have been trying to orchestrate a solution for 4 years or so at this stage, and you can see how well it has gone.

I'm sure it would be possible for the top banks/"the man" to orchestrate a collapse for their own benefit. Even if they didn't it is surely possible. There seems to be a big consolidation of assets by banks. Governments are fairly limp these days, their either in the pockets of large business or too obsessed with public image to do anything so it's not surprising they're failing.

Yup. The new stone age.

I don't see how? It would be impossible to forget everything we know and start living that way again.

No physical part of the world has changed, this is simply a database based problem. We haven't ran out of oil, food, water, the climate hasn't changed and people haven't forgotten how to work. This problem was manufactured and the only reason it continues is because it suits a minority for it to continue.

Mickey H · 27-09-2011 01:54PM

nivekd wrote: »

Is there really a catastrophe around the corner if the Europeans don't agree to print $5 trillion in order to "stabalise the market" or is this yet another example of bankers thinking about christmas around the corner and their big year end bonuses at the expense of tax paying imbeciles?

You can't just print more money to get you out of debt. That would make the money worthless.

4leto · 27-09-2011 01:55PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Did I say anything to that effect? However you could say that my proposal for a new punt would actually incur less inflation and therefore be worth more that the €uro. Almost on par with the Pound Sterling.

You assume that there will be inflation but how?

There will definitely be massive inflation because you could not peg it to sterling.

All we have to back a new currency is 121 pound of gold, fkuc/all really.

So to back the currency we would have to borrow hard currency like the dollar or sterling, BUT, even now, we are frozen out of the financial markets. Also we have a massive fiscal deficit.

So they would first peg the new currency to the old Euro it would be one for one, but when it floats it would collapse in value.

So things we import like petrol, oranges, Samsung teles, cornflakes, wheat would triple (or worse) in price, but our wages would not follow as quickly.

We really do not want the Euro to collapse.

Killer Pigeon · 27-09-2011 02:01PM

4leto wrote: »

There will definitely be massive inflation because you could not peg it to sterling.

All we have to back a new currency is 121 pound of gold, fkuc/all really.

So to back the currency we would have to borrow hard currency like the dollar or sterling, BUT, even now, we are frozen out of the financial markets. Also we have a massive fiscal deficit.

So they would first peg the new currency to the old Euro it would be one for one, but when it floats it would collapse in value.

So things we import like petrol, oranges, Samsung teles, cornflakes, wheat would triple (or worse) in price, but our wages would not follow as quickly.

We really do not want the Euro to collapse.

Fixing currencies to units of real value (like gold, though that restricted to gold) protects economies from high levels of inflation. The point is, I think that an economy should be consistent rather than employing central banks, who kick the can down the road.

Phill Ewinn · 27-09-2011 02:01PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Did I say anything to that effect? However you could say that my proposal for a new punt would actually incur less inflation and therefore be worth more that the €uro. Almost on par with the Pound Sterling.

You assume that there would be inflation but how?

What would you base thee new punt on? We're broke. There's no money in the country. We don't have any gold reserve. Not enough natural resourses to base a currency on either.

We'd still have massive debts and litterally nothing to trade for them. No body would want a worthless punt.

I could be wrong. Seems to me we'd be begging England for sterling. Falling back on the punt would have worked if we hadn't blown everthing we had.

4leto · 27-09-2011 02:12PM

Then there is worse if the euro fails we would not be the only ones looking toward the IMF.

There would be Spain, Portugal, Italy and even France looking for a dig out. The IMF does not have that money. Then there is the knock on to the loss of these markets to places like Germany, USA and even China.

A Euro collapse would be unimaginatively bad, so bad, I am thinking it wont be allowed fail, but they don't seem to be doing anything about the problems it is having at the moment.

A Euro collapse would make 1929 look like a walk in the park. It would be a depression like the world has never seen.

fontanalis · 27-09-2011 02:15PM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

What would you base thee new punt on? We're broke. There's no money in the country. We don't have any gold reserve. Not enough natural resourses to base a currency on either.

We'd still have massive debts and litterally nothing to trade for them. No body would want a worthless punt.

I could be wrong. Seems to me we'd be begging England for sterling. Falling back on the punt would have worked if we hadn't blown everthing we had.

Yeah but people seem to think: punt = no aftermath of property bubble and no debt, euro = aftermath of property bubble and debt so lets go back to the punt and it will all dissappear.

27-09-2011 02:16PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

The €uro crash is inevitable at this stage. The best thing our government can do now is to pull out of the €uro, ECB and the European Monetary Union, introduce a Gold/Silver standard Punt that isn't control by a Central Bank and implement a free-market economy with reduced taxes so that multinationals like Intel will still be interested in Ireland.

Who do their multinationals sell to then? We need access to Europe. Corporation tax means nothing compared to a free market. Once we have to pay import/export duties, the game's over. You can't argue that.

fontanalis · 27-09-2011 02:18PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Did I say anything to that effect? However you could say that my proposal for a new punt would actually incur less inflation and therefore be worth more that the €uro. Almost on par with the Pound Sterling.

You assume that there would be inflation but how?

So the new punt will magically increase in value?

ScumLord · 27-09-2011 02:25PM

4leto wrote: »

Do you really believe that.

If our economy collapses you will see empty supermarkets and Irish people starving on the streets. There would be no fuel, no power and general chaos. That is how serious an economic collapse would be, think Zimbabwe.

Ireland can feed 55 million people, there would be no need for people to starve. Ireland is full of intelligent able bodied people, if the economy did collapse and we all just sat around starving then we would really deserve to be wiped off the planet.

Phill Ewinn · 27-09-2011 02:30PM

fontanalis wrote: »

Yeah but people seem to think: punt = no aftermath of property bubble and no debt, euro = aftermath of property bubble and debt so lets go back to the punt and it will all dissappear.

Ah. A magic silver bullet for our worries. A silverless bullet more like.

Haelium · 27-09-2011 03:03PM

The time for moving to the punt passed a long time ago. If we went back now we would have a worthless currency that I for one, would have zero confidence in.

The Euro collapse is not inevitable, the only people who will gain from it are traders and speculators, so everybody will do what they can to prevent it from happening. People need to get a grip and stop going crazy about this.

Zebra3 · 27-09-2011 03:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Corporation tax means nothing compared to a free market.

Probably cos free markets don't actually exist.

Son Of A Vidic · 27-09-2011 04:06PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Nobody is orchestrating this, I can assure you. It couldn't be orchestrated if you tried: the world's most powerful governments have been trying to orchestrate a solution for 4 years or so at this stage

Such naivety, but I suppose it's a blessing really. If you think governments have any control over this, then think again.

4leto · 27-09-2011 04:17PM

Absolutely not for the simple reason, traders have a **** lot more money.

But they could bolster confidence in the currency, by certain measures which will be hugely unpopular in the countries who are not indebted.

What I think we are looking at in Europe and it has to be the the US is a failure and inherent flaw in democracy.

No one wants to make the difficult unpopular decisions that need to be made promptly.

Ireland is another example, we know what needs to be done and its happening but to slowly. I think the government want the IMF to enforce the difficult decisions, and even then as in Greece that might not work either.

But on the grounds that a euro collapse would be to catastrophic to the world economy I think they wont allow it to happen.

Celly Smunt · 27-09-2011 04:46PM

lads,we should have ****ed off when iceland did,or even better bought sterling.

4leto · 27-09-2011 04:52PM

pmcmahon wrote: »

lads,we should have ****ed off when iceland did,or even better bought sterling.

In hindsight yes and just let the banks go bankrupt, it would have been hard, but not as hard as this could get.

The thing is Ireland is doing OK, if the rest of the world stays out of recession we will recover, better then Iceland.

But there is always unsurety in economics, its more astrology then a science.

I know this sounds weird but the only time economics can predict the future is after the event happens. Then we all know how it happened.

kincsem · 27-09-2011 05:02PM

Mickey H wrote: »

You can't just print more money to get you out of debt. That would make the money worthless.

If you have money assets you lose. If you have money debt you gain. Gold has been high for a while probably because printing money will be the way out of this crisis, and in a "money printing" era it is best to hold tangible assets.

Germany will be for a "no printing" policy. Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Spain will be happy with a bit of inflation as it will effectively write off their debt. Of course imports will become more expensive but exports will get a boost. But it might not be that simple as many industries might go under in price turmoil. Business works better when things are steady, lees boom and less bust.

Bankers: "can I haz more money plz"

Comments