Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish Delegates walk out of Ahmadinejad UN Speech

13

Comments

  • #62
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Every other one of his points referred to the USA.
    Even this one?

    "Who imposed colonialism for over four centuries upon this world. Who occupied lands and massively plundered resources of other nations, destroyed talents, and alienated languages, cultures and identities of nations?"


  • #63
    who the fug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Overheal wrote: »
    Even this one?

    "Who imposed colonialism for over four centuries upon this world. Who occupied lands and massively plundered resources of other nations, destroyed talents, and alienated languages, cultures and identities of nations?"


    Persia


  • #64
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I did not see that one coming.


  • #65
    evercloserunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭evercloserunion


    The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »
    The two world wars caused by the US? Nuclear bomb against defenseless people? His conspiracy notions about 9/11. He said European countries were paying a fine or ransom to the Zionists because of the Holocaust. He said NATO sanctioned drug trafficking. He said the US and allies threaten Iran because they question the holocaust.

    :pac: yeah, it is really accurate.

    The US *did* use the bomb against defenseless people. The vast majority of victims of the bomb were not armoured, gun-carrying soldiers, they were unarmed civilian inhabitants of the cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. And they met a truly horrific end.

    As for the US starting the two world wars, I'm not sure that's what he was actually saying. It seems to me that he was making a general criticism of the West, not just the US.

    He's still a nutter though.


  • #66
    evercloserunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭evercloserunion


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Every other one of his points referred to the USA.

    It's clear you haven't read the speech, he also makes reference to four hundred years of slavery and colonialism in Africa dating back to medieval times.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    People calm down please.
    The man is as nuts as Michael O'Leary. No more no less. He is playing the stage brilliantly. You mustn't forget he is playing to a different audience, he is not playing to you and me who are as much brainwashed by our media than we claim his audience to be.
    There is a lot of rhetorics in there but most of it is actually true and in fairness the USA are a manipulative, imperialistic we come first and who gives a sh1t about the rest power with a very mixed record in history. Most if what he said is not actually false.

    The whole Iran story over the last 20 years is just another example of how propaganda works and how even the most outrageous lies become gospel if you keep repeating them enough


  • #68
    regi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭regi


    There are a lot of stories told about Iran that illustrate the barbarity inherent in their current system, but I'm not sure they are all lies, as you refer to them.

    Most recently, they took a 17 year old boy, put a nylon rope around his neck and winched him up in the air until he was dead.


  • #69
    Jonny7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Boskowski wrote: »
    he is not playing to you and me who are as much brainwashed by our media than we claim his audience to be.

    Dude, so like *inhales*.. if we are brainwashed one way, and they are brainwashed the other way... who's right?


  • #70
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    I dont think its been pointed out that all the delegates from countries in the EU walked out of the speech. So i imagine it was an agreement between all EU countries rather than the Irish delegates doing so independently.
    Diplomats from more than 30 countries, including the US and EU nations, left the hall as he attacked the West, denounced Israel and questioned the Holocaust.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15028776

    I can understand the reason for walking out. Ahmadinejad just uses his speeches at the UN to try and provoke the Western nations and Israel. You'd hardly expect the delegates to sit through a speech that is only intent on insulting their countries in an outrageous manner.


  • #71
    edanto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    regi wrote: »
    There are a lot of stories told about Iran that illustrate the barbarity inherent in their current system, but I'm not sure they are all lies, as you refer to them.

    Most recently, they took a 17 year old boy, put a nylon rope around his neck and winched him up in the air until he was dead.

    Iran execute the highest number of minors in the world. They disgust me.

    Yet, the Irish envoys should not be walking out on speeches. If you have something to say, stand up and say it.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    edanto wrote: »
    Iran execute the highest number of minors in the world. They disgust me.

    Yet, the Irish envoys should not be walking out on speeches. If you have something to say, stand up and say it.

    Are the delegates allowed question a speaker during their speech though?


  • #73
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    View wrote: »
    Even diplomats should have the right to say "Okay, enough sh*te, we're out of here".

    Who said they shouldn't? But since we joined the Americans and French ect, you couldn't quiet say it was the act of a neutral nation now could you? Which is not a problem providing we treat other deserving countries similarly. I refer to Israel of course and perhaps when we walk past their delegation, we might ask if they could return our stolen Irish passports. And perhaps not murder under the cover of our flag in future, to avoid sullying our international reputation with their primitive standards.


  • #74
    edanto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Are the delegates allowed question a speaker during their speech though?

    Probably not. But every now and again, we get the chance to stand up and make our speech. It's during those times that we should say what's on our minds and speak like men, not feeble diplomats.

    We could comment, in the most objective way we can find, on various human rights abuses around the world. We could tell the world what we got wrong about our banking sector and admit our mistakes. That's all a bit of a tangent and off topic for this thread though....


  • #75
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Originally Posted by sdeire viewpost.gif
    There is a plethora of evidence that 9/11 was not all it seems

    And most of it is complete and utter tosh that has not been disproved by experts and which only the extremely gullible or simple would believe.

    The most bizarre 9/11 conspiracy site I went on tried to tell us that no planes hit the WTC that day (despite the fact that millions of New Yorkers must have seen the planes hit the towers with their own eyes) and that "there was not enough rubble" at Ground Zero after the towers collapsed (and they believed the towers collapsed by a secret US military ray gun fired from the sky).


  • #76
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Corvus Maximus wrote: »
    I refer to Israel of course and perhaps when we walk past their delegation, we might ask if they could return our stolen Irish passports. And perhaps not murder under the cover of our flag in future, to avoid sullying our international reputation with their primitive standards.
    At least no-one from Ireland has been involved in terrorism and paramilitarism overseas while using false/stolen irish passports, eh?

    Boy oh boy, can Irish folk be hypocritically self-righteous and sanctimonious.


  • #77
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Dude, so like *inhales*.. if we are brainwashed one way, and they are brainwashed the other way... who's right?

    As with all those things - neither. The truth is somewhere inbetween.

    What kind of answer did you expect?


  • #78
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    regi wrote: »
    There are a lot of stories told about Iran that illustrate the barbarity inherent in their current system, but I'm not sure they are all lies, as you refer to them.

    Most recently, they took a 17 year old boy, put a nylon rope around his neck and winched him up in the air until he was dead.

    I'm not saying they're all lies.

    However, most of the stuff thats being spurted about Ahmadinejad in our media are rubbish and are following a certain political agenda. And most people seem content merely repeating the stuff rather than read/think for themselves.

    With regards to the story you're referring to. Terrible that he was underage, yes. But in the end they hung someone who killed someone and was convicted by a court of doing so. Circumstances weren't clear-cut but more or less the same thing could have happened in the USA only its an injection or the chair over there...

    All you need to do look at is the Troy Davis case. No innocent little boy surely, but at the same time most of the witnesses withdrew claiming their statements were taken under police pressure but the execution went ahead nonetheless.

    Actually this one is a great example in two ways. Because when you had a look at the media coverage around the time of the execution you would think he was an innocent victim of the brutal American justice system. It was all 'black'' witnesses withdrew', 'police pressure'. A certain picture was painted simply by omitting certain details. Why? Cos it suited for some reason. Media does that all the time.


  • #79
    SamHarris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    evercloserunion wrote: »
    It's clear you haven't read the speech, he also makes reference to four hundred years of slavery and colonialism in Africa dating back to medieval times.

    It always gets my goat when nationalist Middle Eastern leaders use slavery as an example of the evil and decadence of the West, considering it was Arab culture and slavers that originally brought the idea into vogue and was practised for much longer in many North African and Middle Eastern states. Could make a strong argument it still legally exists in many of those places.


  • #80
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    SamHarris wrote: »
    It always gets my goat when nationalist Middle Eastern leaders use slavery as an example of the evil and decadence of the West, considering it was Arab culture and slavers that originally brought the idea into vogue....................

    Ye wha? Pull the other one.


  • #81
    SamHarris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ye wha? Pull the other one.

    Arab slavers in Zanzibar was where Europeans originally began buying slaves for the New World, as always it was economic preassures that brought it to the fore but culturally it was much more ingrained in Arab society and for a much longer period than in the West. Eritrea for example only very recently ended its slavery policies. Mauritania in 2007. The Caucuses only ceased the practice following a Russian invasion. Persia illegalised it in 1927, under enormous Western preassure - it had been a staple of Persian culture for millenia.

    All very well documented, just google African Slave trade. Merely pointing out it is hardly a position upon which a proponant of pan - Islamic civilisation can take the moral high ground visa a vis the West.

    Just another example of Ahmadinejad's complete ignorance about world history and cutlural trends. Although he probably relies more on other peoples ignorance when he makes his points than the substance of his arguments. Seems to work a charm in some quarters.


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,604 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    SamHarris wrote: »
    . Could make a strong argument it still legally exists in many of those places.

    It(slavery) is certainly "tolerated" in Sudan. There are an estimated 5, 000 people kept as Slaves in London according to agencies who are tasked with dealing with this issue. The bulk of these people come from Sudan. The devils on horseback(janjaweed) are notorious for kidnapping children and selling them off as slaves.

    Gadaffi was directly complicit in the rise of the janjaweed by creating Tajammu al-Arabi, a nationalist and racist pan arabic group in north africa.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,647 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    evercloserunion wrote: »
    It's clear you haven't read the speech, he also makes reference to four hundred years of slavery and colonialism in Africa dating back to medieval times.

    I did read it I'll concede I got the point wrong. I still think that there was nothing wrong with walking out on him.


  • #84
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    SamHarris wrote: »
    Arab slavers in (..........)quarters.

    Trotting out a history of Arab slavery does not justify the remark "it was Arab culture and slavers that originally brought the idea into vogue".

    Slavery in Europe does not have its origins with Arab practices, trade or no.
    SamHarris wrote: »
    Merely pointing out it is hardly a position upon which a proponant of pan - Islamic civilisation can take the moral high ground visa a vis the West..

    ...if thats all you were pointing out, I wouldn't have bothered remarking on it.


  • #85
    SamHarris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    Nodin wrote: »
    Trotting out a history of Arab slavery does not justify the remark "it was Arab culture and slavers that originally brought the idea into vogue".

    Slavery in Europe does not have its origins with Arab practices, trade or no.


    ...if thats all you were pointing out, I wouldn't have bothered remarking on it.

    Probably not a question that has a real answer, however the first African slaves in Europe and the US were bought from Arabs, indeed a massive amount of wealth was generated for decades for the Middle East through the practice.

    I was being flippant when I implied it was the main or only factor that lead to slavery becoming such a huge industry in the West however - no doubt the massive demand for new and cheap labour was the main drive - you are right about that, apologies.

    Yes that was what I was pointing out but also that nearly the entirety of his speech had little or no basis in fact - if a speech from a representative of a country is dedicated to insulting a major cultural and economic ally of Ireland then I believe it behooves us, and many others with respect for the States, to show how little we agree with him.

    To say nothing of his clear anti Semitism (if anyone believes his questioning of the Holocaust is motivated by anything else, then they are kidding themselves and I have no doubt are politically motivated in their own opinion.)

    I have not seen any valid argument yet why Ahmadinehjad (can we please start using an acronym for that name?) should be treated by everyone in the assembly as though he just gave another speech. If Obamas speech consisted of him going on about the evils of Islamic civilisation for the past couple of hudnred of years, Im certain some countries would have walked out too. And well they should have.


  • #86
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Nodin wrote: »
    Trotting out a history of Arab slavery does not justify the remark "it was Arab culture and slavers that originally brought the idea into vogue".

    Slavery in Europe does not have its origins with Arab practices, trade or no.
    Slavery and Arabs are both irrelevant to the subject of Madmanijad anyway.
    Iranians are not Arabs. They don't even speak Arabic.


  • #87
    StudentDad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Nodin wrote: »
    Trotting out a history of Arab slavery does not justify the remark "it was Arab culture and slavers that originally brought the idea into vogue".

    Slavery in Europe does not have its origins with Arab practices, trade or no.
    Slavery and Arabs are both irrelevant to the subject of Madmanijad anyway.
    Iranians are not Arabs. They don't even speak Arabic.

    Doesn't really matter what he was saying, just rabble rousing for a home audience. He has pretty much sabre rattled himself into a corner. If he tries to take a middle ground his power base will erode, if he keeps going he'll have to do something stupid that we'll all regret. In the end he's just a dictator trying to convince his own people that he's the good guy.

    SD


  • #88
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Slavery and Arabs are both irrelevant to the subject of Madmanijad anyway.
    Iranians are not Arabs. They don't even speak Arabic.

    You might point that out to the person who brought it up.


  • #89
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    StudentDad wrote: »
    In the end he's just a dictator trying to convince his own people that he's the good guy.

    He is not a dictator. The Supreme Leader has a lot more power than him, and when he recently tried to go against the Supreme Leader, he was put in his place. You are right in that he was speaking to a home audience.


  • #90
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Who are the Irish people that sit in the UN? Are they civil servants or a team of ambassadors to the UN or something?


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    If you think Obama and Netanyahu's speeches were in even the same timezone of inaccuracy and just plain insanity as Ahmedinijads then your credibility is completely shot.

    Granted, Netenyahu and Obama would be much more carefull about what they say but it would still be high on rehtoric and low on substance.

    You would think that rather then Obama and Netenyahu - Ahmedinijad and Netenyahu would be more kindered spirits if you listen to their sabre rattling. Indeed Netenyahu's sabre rattling regarding Iran is alarming former high ranking Israeli intelligence officials.
    Dagan describes the current Israeli government as "dangerous and irresponsible" and views speaking out against Netanyahu as his patriotic duty. And his abhorrence of Netanyahu is not uncommon in the Israeli security establishment. Accordingto Think Progress, citing the Forward newspaper, 12 of the 18 living ex-chiefs of Israel's two security agencies (Mossad and Shin Bet), are "either actively opposing Netanyahu's stances or have spoken out against them". Of the remaining six, two are current ministers in Netanyahu government, leaving a grand total of four out of 18 who independently support the prime minister.

    In short, while Congress dutifully gives Netanyahu 29 standing ovations, the Israelis who know the most about both Netanyahu and Israel's strategic situation think he is a dangerous disaster.
    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/201171775828434786.html


    I often wonder what kind of country Iran would be now if the UK/US hadn't overthrown it's democratically elected government in the 1950's for having the audacity to move towards nationalization of it's British controlled oil industry.


Advertisement