Homophobia in Sports - Keeping Players in The Closet

Buceph · 19-09-2011 09:03PM

Edz87 wrote: »

Nigel Owens, the Welsh International rugby union referee is gay. I've been to many games which he has reffed and never once heard any homophobic slurs thrown at him. And that's saying something seeing as he is a ref and open to all sorts of abuse.

I have, once, at Muzzer. Some drunk knobheads yelled something. They were quickly told to shut the **** up and threatened with forceable removement from the grounds by their surrounding fans.

Nigel Owens seems a decent sort. I've talked to him a few times on twitter. Typical Welsh boyo, very proud of where he is from, big sports fan and very proud of his achievements and deservedly so. He's one of the few refs I'd go out of my way to buy a pint for actually.

py2006 · 19-09-2011 09:06PM

I think its more the abuse from the stands the clubs are worried about. It might be well known and accepted within the club and I am sure most of their fellow players are aware and accept it.

Shreddingblood · 19-09-2011 09:08PM

Yeah homophobia in sports is a bit gay.

mickydoomsux · 19-09-2011 09:11PM

I remember when that GAA lad came out a while ago every fan of the GAA i spoke to about it called him either "the faggot" or "the queer" and were pretty much disgusted by it.

JupiterKid · 19-09-2011 09:14PM

People might ask why should gay sportspeople be out and that's it's a "private" matter - I loathe this point of view.

With straight sportspeople - you get to hear plently about their private lives - the WAGS, the "celeb" life, gossip etc. Yet gay players are supposed to remain closeted? Talk about a case of double standards!

Also, from the perspective of being good role models to young gay people struggling with coming to terms with their sexuality, it's a good thing to have out and proud sportsmen and women who can be those role models. So many youngsters look up to sports stars as role models.

Indeed gay rugby international player Gareth Thomas said last year - "I want to be the gay role model that I never had." He also talked about how if his coming out might have prevented suidices among gay youth, he was happy.

It's important that gay men and lesbians are represented - and openly so- in professional sport.

Will I Amnt · 19-09-2011 09:18PM

py2006 wrote: »

I think its more the abuse from the stands the clubs are worried about. It might be well known and accepted within the club and I am sure most of their fellow players are aware and accept it.

Exactly.Why give opposing fans a stick to beat you with.
Football fans especially pounce on any little thing they can to get at players.Wayne Rooney and Frank Lampard get dogs abuse for being fat even though neither of them are even slightly overweight compared to the average person.
They would have a field day if they found out someone was gay.

krudler · 19-09-2011 09:25PM

temply wrote: »

Carl Lewis, one of the greatest sportsmen ever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jamJ4-C_TME

aside from the whole cheating thing

temply · 19-09-2011 09:55PM

krudler wrote: »

aside from the whole cheating thing

they were all as bad as eachother i think back then

starbelgrade · 19-09-2011 10:14PM

FIFA have done a lot over the years to address the issue of racism in football - both on the pitch & in the stands.

They haven't done the same for homophobia. And I'm not sure that will change until the likes of Fernando Torres come out of the closet & make a proud stand for gay men in football.

JupiterKid · 19-09-2011 10:53PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Exactly.Why give opposing fans a stick to beat you with.
Football fans especially pounce on any little thing they can to get at players.Wayne Rooney and Frank Lampard get dogs abuse for being fat even though neither of them are even slightly overweight compared to the average person.
They would have a field day if they found out someone was gay.

That should never be used as an excuse to keep gay players in the closet. If clubs and teams wouldn't allow players to come out because of fear of homophobia among the fans, then no progress would ever be made.

A few truly brave people and clubs have to step forward. The only professional openly gay soccer player is Swede Anton Hysen (son of former Liverpool player Glenn Hysen), and he only plays for a third division trem in Sweden. It's a very sad state of affairs.

Kevin Duffy · 19-09-2011 10:56PM

cambo2008 wrote: »

Exactly.Why give opposing fans a stick to beat you with.
Football fans especially pounce on any little thing they can to get at players.Wayne Rooney and Frank Lampard get dogs abuse for being fat even though neither of them are even slightly overweight compared to the average person.
They would have a field day if they found out someone was gay.

Morally lazy, bankrupt, cowardly, pathetic argument.

deisedave · 19-09-2011 11:00PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

This is an issue that needs to be aired but for some reason threads on this seem to end up getting locked pretty fast.:rolleyes:

It's obvious that professional sports is rife with homophobia and anti-gay sentiment and it's bloody sad. Only a tiny handful of professional sportspeople have come out - such as Donal Og Cusack in GAA Hurling, Gareth Thomas and Ian Roberts in Rubgy, Anton Hysen in Football, Matthew Mitcham in Diving, Martina Navratilova, Amelie Mauresmo and Billie Jean King in Tennis and Graeme Obree in Cycling.

Soccer expecially seems very homophobic. Look at what happened to Justin Fashanu after he came out in the early 1990s.:(

Isn't it high time that sports fans - especially football supporters - took a long look at themselves and copped the f*ck on?

Yes because every football supporter is homophobic. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Wtf you on about

Cianos · 19-09-2011 11:02PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

That should never be used as an excuse to keep gay players in the closet. If clubs and teams wouldn't allow players to come out because of fear of homophobia among the fans, then no progress would ever be made.

A few truly brave people and clubs have to step forward. The only professional openly gay soccer player is Swede Anton Hysen (son of former Liverpool player Glenn Hysen), and he only plays for a third division trem in Sweden. It's a very sad state of affairs.

afaik the manager of Sankt Pauli is openly gay.

Dotrel · 19-09-2011 11:03PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

FIFA have done a lot over the years to address the issue of racism in football - both on the pitch & in the stands.

They haven't done the same for homophobia. And I'm not sure that will change until the likes of Fernando Torres come out of the closet & make a proud stand for gay men in football.

He should ask Ashley Cole to stand proudly beside him on that day.

Dotrel · 19-09-2011 11:05PM

Cianos wrote: »

afaik the manager of Sankt Pauli is openly gay.

St. Pauli is a different culture entirely to most football clubs and fans.

Thrill · 19-09-2011 11:06PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Morally lazy, bankrupt, cowardly, pathetic argument.

Didn't you propose pretty much the same argument, only about premier league refs instead of players?

geetar · 19-09-2011 11:08PM

deisedave wrote: »

Yes because every football supporter is homophobic. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Wtf you on about

what hes on about is sportstars having to hide their sexuality from the public for fear of abuse, ridicule, loss of fame and losing their place on their sports team.

quite clear really. hes not suggetsing that all fans are homophobic, but rather that the air of homophobicy in sports prevents well respected sports stars to hide their sexuality.

Kevin Duffy · 19-09-2011 11:08PM

Thrill wrote: »

Didn't you propose pretty much the same argument, only about premier league refs instead of players?

No, not even close. You might want to read what I actually wrote.

Will I Amnt · 19-09-2011 11:12PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

Exactly.Why give opposing fans a stick to beat you with.
Football fans especially pounce on any little thing they can to get at players.Wayne Rooney and Frank Lampard get dogs abuse for being fat even though neither of them are even slightly overweight compared to the average person.
They would have a field day if they found out someone was gay.

Morally lazy, bankrupt, cowardly, pathetic argument.

Like it or not that's the way it is.

yawha · 19-09-2011 11:13PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

With straight sportspeople - you get to hear plently about their private lives - the WAGS, the "celeb" life, gossip etc.

These are awful, awful, awful role models for straight young people.

You want homosexual versions of these vacuous tools?

Paparazzo · 19-09-2011 11:19PM

The old "look what happened to Justin Fashanu" argument doesn't work for me. He committed suicide because of allegations of sexual against him. Not because of homophobia in football.

And the whole "think of the abuse a player would get" doesn't wash either. (In englands premier league anyway) If a player came out as gay, and fans abused him, they would be given serious penalties. Same as racist chants.

TylerIE · 19-09-2011 11:22PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

I know of two gay football teams and a gay rowing club in Dublin and that's without being particularily interested in the issue or participating in either sport, so I'm guessing there plenty more and the exclusion and homophobia is probably a bit exagerrated.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Sounds kinda self-segregating somehow.

They are there and serve a purpose for those who wish to play with other LGBT individuals in an LGBT friendly environment. Its a social forum - just like the various Garda Sports Clubs and Work based sports clubs.

The homophobia is there in that its reported again and again that various Football Advisors advise their players not to come out - Max Clifford had advised same and I heard of some big manager recently saying same (German I think, cant find the link now).

PK2008 wrote: »

Why would you care if a footballer comes out as gay or not, its football not a support group. I couldn't care less what the sexual preference of any sports person is....

Do you really care OP or are you just looking for a crusade?

The OP is I assume looking to examine why this is? I know a small number of GAA players who are out at local level, but how many county players are out? Do young kids in rural GAA Ireland, who happen to be gay, have exposure to positive Irish role models?

I grew up in an environment where if you were gay and out you wouldnt consider doing sports. If your out your wide open to smart and snotty comments and abuse, for a start. IF your not out teamsports are pretty difficult - hiding your sexuality is not very conducive to you feeling like part of a team.

Flincher wrote: »

The law of averages would dictate that there are a lot of gay people playing elite sport, but I dont see why they all have to come out of the closet. I know the likes of Gareth Thomas felt they were doing some good by coming out, and that is well and good, but in my view, sexuality is a personal thing and if a player chooses not to publicly come out, well that is their own business.One lad on our soccer team is gay, most of us know, its not an issue. He doesnt need to broadcast the fact that hes gay. He says himself its not a defining characteristic. Hes just one of the lads who is into his soccer and goes for a few pints with us now and again. I imagine there are elite sports people who do the same.

Coming out gives young gay people role models. It helps ensure equality. When it comes to Marriage Equality I would hope your soccer team now think that your team-mate is entitled to the same rights you all are.

JupiterKid wrote: »

People might ask why should gay sportspeople be out and that's it's a "private" matter - I loathe this point of view.

With straight sportspeople - you get to hear plently about their private lives - the WAGS, the "celeb" life, gossip etc. Yet gay players are supposed to remain closeted? Talk about a case of double standards!

Also, from the perspective of being good role models to young gay people struggling with coming to terms with their sexuality, it's a good thing to have out and proud sportsmen and women who can be those role models. So many youngsters look up to sports stars as role models.

Indeed gay rugby international player Gareth Thomas said last year - "I want to be the gay role model that I never had." He also talked about how if his coming out might have prevented suidices among gay youth, he was happy.

It's important that gay men and lesbians are represented - and openly so- in professional sport.

Well said....

I believe there was some references to Anton Hysen and how you cant be a big soccer player and be gay.

LH Pathe · 19-09-2011 11:23PM

anyone who does come out in sport is bravest of all as it's the one field in particular where societal norms are rarely breached and most folk tend to go with the pack. But then under those circumstances it's possibly the one arena you should actually keep it zipped.. But then you don't want them shower peepers or willy comparers to be actually gay; guess they're not peeping so much if they're upfront with it. Difficult one

Thrill · 19-09-2011 11:27PM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

No, not even close. You might want to read what I actually wrote.

That might be a reflection of the fact that in rugby at all levels, refs just don't get abuse. I wonder would an English Permier League ref find the same tolerance?

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you're intimating that a premier league ref would receive abuse from supporters, which is what the other poster was saying, only about players.

barone · 19-09-2011 11:28PM

i actually think the main reason that big name footballers havent come out is purely financial, id imagine most straight footballers would complain of having to share a bath or shower with openly gay men ,therefore lessening that players worth in the transfer market..

isnt it always about the money in football?

as for other sports i dont really know,maybe simillar

Kevin Duffy · 19-09-2011 11:34PM

Thrill wrote: »

Unless I'm reading this wrong, you're intimating that a premier league ref would receive abuse from supporters, which is what the other poster was saying, only about players.

Yeh, you do read it wrong, badly. I was questioning if openly gay refs in rugby and the EPL would have a different experience based on the fact that rugby refs don't get as much abuse in general.
The other poster you were referring to suggested that the homophobic abuse fans might heap on opposing players was a reason for players not to be openly gay, which I said was a morally lazy etc. argument against the idea. If the same logic were followed, racism would have driven black players out of the game long ago - clearly not a good thing.

LH Pathe · 19-09-2011 11:40PM

Never forget those trying times where one is expected to take one for the team... Yup ;- Then we'll see who the real men are.. or is that expendable

Cianos · 19-09-2011 11:40PM

barone wrote: »

i actually think the main reason that big name footballers havent come out is purely financial, id imagine most straight footballers would complain of having to share a bath or shower with openly gay men ,therefore lessening that players worth in the transfer market..

isnt it always about the money in football?

as for other sports i dont really know,maybe simillar

Yes probably, but I doubt the problem is with teammates. Boards of directors are aware that lad culture is the culture of reference as regards the image their team has. Signing an openly gay footballer would be seen as a strategic risk because it's easier to not rock the boat as regards the prejudices of the fans.

TylerIE · 19-09-2011 11:48PM

I quote an editorial I read recently:

Being out is the most fundamental thing we can do to improve the lives of future generations, and for most of us, it’s as basic (though not to say easy) as telling the people in our lives. But if you’re a person in the public eye and you refuse to say you’re LGBT in a public forum, you’re unequivocally not out. Yes, you have a different standard than the nonfamous.....

....who among us — more than the wealthy and famous — has the luxury of coming out and doing a ton of good in the process?

Sports personalities, who are household names, being out shows all the Daddys and Mammys in Ireland that just because your gay doesnt mean you cant be a county player/ great soccer player AND a normal, well adjusted, successful human being. It gives kids the opportunity to see a gay person on TV, and see that Daddy doesnt say "that f---ing qu--r" or that "f@iry".

Gay kids can see that they can live a life thats not destroyed just because they are gay. Until this year we didnt have any openly Gay TDs. When I was a teenager I assumed that being gay precluded you from holding any political position as nobody would vote for you. We've come a long way, but theres still a way to go.

Thankfully a small number of sports personalities have realised the importance of this, but more need to follow.

mikemac · 19-09-2011 11:53PM

TylerIE wrote: »

When I was a teenager I assumed that being gay precluded you from holding any political position as nobody would vote for you. We've come a long way, but theres still a way to go.

The good people of Kildare North returned Emmett Stagg and he was involved in some seriously dodgy behaviour over a decade ago

Homophobia in Sports - Keeping Players in The Closet

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