Jürgen Stark: Abandon the Croke Park Agreement, cut welfare

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:13PM

Demonique wrote: »

I hope all the cnuts posting in this thread lose their jobs and have to receive social welfare

Amen to that brother, while you could have phrased it differently. It would be extremely interesting to have this conversation with people who are not entitled middle class.

12-09-2011 03:14PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Again internet to provide educational assistance, yes I go on boards, but living in the middle of nowhere with a toddler for company can get a tad dull. Also I do not drink, smoke, go out so surely I can not be denied €20 a month on this.

wolf, I am not suggesting you be "denied" anything; I was responding to the ludicrous claim that you are "going hungry" and "not able to afford the basics".

So should he come out and go on the SW too? because that is all he would be able to do. Odd logic really!

We are making sure that in 3 years time he will be a qualified vet and if you are on the dole (which you very much could be by then) he will be contributing taxes to pay you for your dossers life

Whatever he may or may not be able to do in the future, he is currently in college for extra education instead of looking for a job. If you were as desperate as seems to be suggested on the thread, he wouldn't be.

There is no work! Why do you think there are 450,000 people unemployed, because they just couldn't be bothered.

Fine, rephrase to "instead of seeking work".

Monty Burnz · 12-09-2011 03:14PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

Amen to that brother.

Are you not going to show us where to find 20 billion per annum? Or are you just going to agree with people who wish misfortune on those you disagree with?

You seem like a nice guy. :rolleyes:

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:15PM

bluewolf wrote: »

wolf, I am not suggesting you be "denied" anything; I was responding to the ludicrous claim that you are "going hungry" and "not able to afford the basics".

Whatever he may or may not be able to do in the future, he is currently in college for extra education instead of looking for a job. If you were as desperate as seems to be suggested on the thread, he wouldn't be.

Fine, rephrase to "instead of seeking work".

Wow you lot are not even attempting to hide your cruelty at this stage.

The bolded above essentially translates to "you are not suffering enough"

12-09-2011 03:16PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

Wow you lot are not even attempting to hide your cruelty at this stage.

The bolded above essentially translates to "you are not suffering enough"

No, it translates to stop making stupid untrue claims about other posters' circumstances.

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:16PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Are you not going to show us where to find 20 billion per annum? Or are you just going to agree with people who wish misfortune on those you disagree with?

You seem like a nice guy. :rolleyes:

Far nicer than the cruelty being displayed on this thread towards the people who have the least.

I dont need to show where 20 billion comes from, what has been shown on this thread is that there are plenty of other places to start extract money from before we hit the worst off.

Monty Burnz · 12-09-2011 03:17PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

It would be extremely interesting to have this conversation with people who are not entitled middle class.

You mean 'entitled' as in 'worked hard at college and/or school, then worked hard to find and keep a job'? Or do you mean entitled as in 'never worked a day in their lives, demand entitlements from taxpayers to keep them in tracksuits, booze, fags and Sky sports'?

That would be an interesting conversation alright. I'd say the latter type of entitled person would agree with you.

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:17PM

bluewolf wrote: »

No, it translates to stop making stupid untrue claims about other posters' circumstances.

She is neglecting her own health while begging from family to provide healthcare for her son....

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:18PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You mean 'entitled' as in 'worked hard at college and/or school, then worked hard to find and keep a job'? Or do you mean entitled as in 'never worked a day in their lives, demand entitlements from taxpayers to keep them in tracksuits, booze, fags and Sky sports'?

That would be an interesting conversation alright. I'd say the latter type of entitled person would agree with you.

Congratulations on being middle class.

Permabear · 12-09-2011 03:19PM

This post has been deleted.

12-09-2011 03:19PM

Chrome, I'm not getting into this any more if you refuse to read the thread and engage in the discussion.
You keep saying she's denying her own health - fine - she is also not claiming her full entitlements. The former may well be solved easily enough if she would do the latter.
As for savings, we have analysed carefully on the thread the alternative suggestions made, and they did not add up to enough. Do you have anything more constructive to add than "there must be somewhere else"?

Monty Burnz · 12-09-2011 03:19PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

Far nicer than the cruelty being displayed on this thread towards the people who have the least.

Cruelty my arse. Go visit a third world country before you come out with that bull - you clearly have no conception of what poverty is. I was shocked, depressed and disturbed when I saw it. If you think we have genuine poverty in Ireland, you haven't a breeze.

ChRoMe wrote: »

I dont need to show where 20 billion comes from, what has been shown on this thread is that there are plenty of other places to start extract money from before we hit the worst off.

You don't have to? You mean you can't.

Well thanks for clearing that nonsense up. Can you please stop making demands of others now that you've admitted your own claims are total bull?

jester77 · 12-09-2011 03:20PM

murphaph wrote: »

In Germany you get €354 a month for a single person on the equivalent of the dole. Rent is paid on a modest (read: you'll have to move to somewhere cheaper if you're used to a nice address) flat with maximum square footage figures etc.

To be fair, that is only after 12 months. The German system is very fair, you get around 66% of your last salary + your health insurance paid for the first 12 months. Plenty of time to sort yourself out. After that, you then get what you mention (plus health insurance paid) but not before you have used up any cash and sold any valuable assets you have. If you own or live in a house above the approved sq. meters, then you have to sell and move to be entitled to the €354.

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:21PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Cruelty my arse. Go visit a third world country before you come out with that bull - you clearly have no conception of what poverty is. I was shocked, depressed and disturbed when I saw it. If you think we have genuine poverty in Ireland, you haven't a breeze.

You don't have to? You mean you can't.

Well thanks for clearing that nonsense up. Can you please stop making demands of others now that you've admitted your own claims are total bull?

I never claimed that I could come up with 20 billion. All I'm demonstrating is that there are plenty of places to go for what money there is first.

Oh visited a 3rd world country, how nice for you to rough it a bit on your gap year.

Monty Burnz · 12-09-2011 03:21PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

Congratulations on being middle class.

Thanks. It took a lot of work.

HellFireClub · 12-09-2011 03:21PM

700K paid to the chief beancounter on retirement, it says it all really. The rampant insane greed of the PS unions, the leadership and the membership will be unmasked now for once and for all, watch them all going on strike now when their own interests are threatened.

I'm not for cutting the salaries of people who provide a valuable front line service on 40K but this madness of paying 700K to people who never had to take a risk or make a hard decision in their professional working lives, this can't go on and it's absolutely revolting to see it still happening 3 years into a recession. Same for Bertie Aherne drawing down 250K in expense, it's disgusting, it's wrong and a stop has to be put to it.

We can only pray that now that other's are making the decisions for us, namely the EU/ECB/IMF troika, that we might just get a set of decisions that would let us cut our cloth to suit our measure for once, because we all know that a Labour inspired government is simply incapable of standing up to the unionised vested interests within the PS in this country.

Bannasidhe · 12-09-2011 03:22PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It seems to me the biggest problem for you is simply the guarantee from your brother for the mortgage. Without that, I presume you could safely default and go up from there? (apologies if I've made a wrong assumption here)

Many people were caught out by buying property during the bubble. This is a totally different issue to the SW side of things.

Re. the dole - there are two issues as I see it: it's too generous, and there is a lot of sponging and fraud. The sponging issue is not as big a problem as it was, as the proportion of spongers has been massively diluted by the number of genuine cases that exist at present.

Why on earth would I default? This is my home. My grand-children both came here straight from hospital (I am a VERY young grandmother

). My apple tree I planted 4 years ago blew down in the storm last night so it's a weekend of baking and freezing apple pies for me. It is my home.

I do not have a huge mortage. I am not in negative equity.
I would claim interest relief - not default - even if they gave me 10 euro a week. That would be 40 off my mortgage and 40 more to spend on food. Yes - things are that tight.

I have never defaulted on a loan in my life. I have no intention is starting now!

wolfpawnat · 12-09-2011 03:22PM

bluewolf wrote: »

wolf, I am not suggesting you be "denied" anything; I was responding to the ludicrous claim that you are "going hungry" and "not able to afford the basics".

I never claimed starvation, only that we have nothing left for healthcare, or new clothes to replace torn and worn out old ones.

bluewolf wrote: »

Whatever he may or may not be able to do in the future, he is currently in college for extra education instead of looking for a job. If you were as desperate as seems to be suggested on the thread, he wouldn't be.

Fine, rephrase to "instead of seeking work".

We are thinking of a long term plan, surely you would agree that in the long term we will be no longer a burden to society and that we will be in the position of helping others who will be unable to find work.

You know that there are 475,000 people unemployed in Ireland and the vast majority are not in that position electively, so surely you should be encouraging as many as possible to do the same as my OH and not remain idly on the dole queue, but bettering himself so he will be seen as a greater asset to society!

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:27PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I never claimed starvation, only that we have nothing left for healthcare, or new clothes to replace torn and worn out old ones.

Apparently health care for your child doesn't qualify as a basic need :rolleyes:

RedXIV · 12-09-2011 03:30PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

We are thinking of a long term plan, surely you would agree that in the long term we will be no longer a burden to society and that we will be in the position of helping others who will be unable to find work.

You know that there are 475,000 people unemployed in Ireland and the vast majority are not in that position electively, so surely you should be encouraging as many as possible to do the same as my OH and not remain idly on the dole queue, but bettering himself so he will be seen as a greater asset to society!

I get where you're coming from but it can be very easily poked holes in when you say something similar like "we won't pay money for food for 2 years and then use the savings to buy a farm". Yes after 2 years you'll probably have plenty of food etc, but are you going to survive the 2 years without food?

Its great that he is educating himself, I fully endorse that. But on the same token, my dad got a degree while holding down a full time job with 3 kids in the house. Took him 10 years but he did it. And we never had to claim social welfare. If you get desperate, surely working full time and studying part-time makes more sense?

Bannasidhe · 12-09-2011 03:30PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I went into that profession because I love it and, if student feedback is any indication, I am good at it- it was never about money. It's still not about money. As I said - I would do it for 15,000 and a bus pass.

Monty Burnz · 12-09-2011 03:32PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

I never claimed that I could come up with 20 billion. All I'm demonstrating is that there are plenty of places to go for what money there is first.

No, you've demonstrated that you haven't a clue where else to raise the money beyond a bit of pointless sloganeering.

ChRoMe wrote: »

Oh visited a 3rd world country, how nice for you to rough it a bit on your gap year.

Not a gap year, a career break. And not 'roughing it at bit' so much as teaching English to children in the hope that it could help them break out of the cycle of poverty.

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:33PM

RedXIV wrote: »

If you get desperate, surely working full time and studying part-time makes more sense?

Yeah there is no shortage of jobs out there, get up off your arse....

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:34PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Not a gap year, a career break. And not 'roughing it at bit' so much as teaching English to children in the hope that it could help them break out of the cycle of poverty.

Pity you dont share the same compassion for your fellow Irish citizens.

RedXIV · 12-09-2011 03:39PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

Yeah there is no shortage of jobs out there, get up off your arse....

Oh I know it isn't easy to get a job, but in same token, it wasn't easy in the 80s either. My dad wasn't around much for the first few years of my life because the only job he could get was in the merchant navy. Sucked but he wanted to provide and not sit at home on the dole. Plenty of jobs out there when people are going to be ready to leave their comfort zones. They will suck, and they won't be fantastic but they'll pay and thats all that matters

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:40PM

RedXIV wrote: »

Plenty of jobs out there when people are going to be ready to leave their comfort zones. They will suck, and they won't be fantastic but they'll pay and thats all that matters

Really? Where? We may have just come upon the solution of Ireland's unemployment problem, please share.

Monty Burnz · 12-09-2011 03:43PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

Pity you dont share the same compassion for your fellow Irish citizens.

Do you have any point to make on the issues we are discussing, or are you just here to insult other posters?

RedXIV · 12-09-2011 03:43PM

ChRoMe wrote: »

Really? Where? We may have just come upon the solution of Ireland's unemployment problem, please share.

First thing I could find that most people should be able to do

Night Porter in Carlow

Now tell me why YOU won't do this job?

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:44PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Do you have any point to make on the issues we are discussing, or are you just here to insult other posters?

Just because you dont agree with my points, does not mean they are not being made.

ChRoMe · 12-09-2011 03:45PM

RedXIV wrote: »

First thing I could find that most people should be able to do

Night Porter in Carlow

Now tell me why YOU won't do this job?

Living in London would make it a bit of a **** commute tbh.

Jürgen Stark: Abandon the Croke Park Agreement, cut welfare

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