Deaf people and Cinemas.. Just accept your lot?

Snakeblood · 12-09-2011 01:03PM

DjFlin wrote: »

I'm totally fine with subtitles. When I was younger, I lived abroad, so the cinemas there had subtitles, plus, whenever I watched DVDs with friends we'd have the subtitles on in their language.

They don't really me at all, its easy to forget they're there at all.

It's easy to forget if it's in a language you don't understand. It's not the same as reading what someone is going to say before they actually say it.

Mythyka29 · 12-09-2011 01:06PM

Forest Master wrote: »

I know you're trying to be all PC, etc, but deaf people can't hear the subtleties or tone in people's voices (in movies or real life), so they can't grasp the full scope of emotional tension - that's a fact. It's not un-PC or ignorant to state a fact. If you can't hear, then you can't hear - that's all I'm saying. I never said they shouldn't do anything.

So similarly there's no point in any of us watching any foreign movie with subtitles, because yeah, we'll get a (generally) dodgy translation of the dialogue, but as we only have the translator's work to rely on (other than obvious things like tone of voice, etc.) we have no real idea of the depths of emotion or meaning present in the original. So what's the point? I'm never going to enjoy a French film to the same extent as someone who is fluent in the language, so why bother with anything by anyone who directs a film in French, or any other non-English language for that matter?

I've watched movies with one bad set of subtitles and was shocked when years later I saw much superior ones for the same film which solved so many of the 'what the hell?!' moments when I watched it the first time.

And if the movie is dubbed, you're missing God knows how many levels of content.

Anyway, Forest Master, what you're saying is that just because you can't have a 'full experience' of something, you shouldn't bother, which is idiotic no matter what sphere of life you apply it to.

DjFlin · 12-09-2011 01:08PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

It's easy to forget if it's in a language you don't understand. It's not the same as reading what someone is going to say before they actually say it.

I've seen films with English subtitles too, same thing.

Logical Fallacy · 12-09-2011 01:09PM

Mythyka29 wrote: »

Anyway, Forest Master, what you're saying is that just because you can't have a 'full experience' of something, you shouldn't bother, which is idiotic no matter what sphere of life you apply it to.

I think what he is saying that unless he is handed every nuance of a piece of work on a plate it's beyond him to understand it.

Lanaier · 12-09-2011 01:14PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

It's easy to forget if it's in a language you don't understand. It's not the same as reading what someone is going to say before they actually say it.

Have to strongly disagree here, I guess it's different for everyone.
She doesn't really need them but I'll sometimes leave the English subs on in a movie for the better half (they're usually far more accurate than the Chinese ones) and it honestly never bothers me.

I used to think it was going to drive me crazy at first but I just stopped noticing.

MungBean · 12-09-2011 01:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/23/cinemas-deaf-people-subtitled-screenings

Article annoyed me.. IMO, the cinema is a luxury visual and auditory experience. There's nothing that gives people an entitlement to see a movie in a cinema so if you can't hear it, then that's just how life goes.

Yea, it's good that there are cinemas doing subtitles but for the most part, I don't see the point.. If I was deaf, I'd just accept that the cinema isn't an option. Going writing articles and crying out at the humanitarian injustice of a fuking cinema is ridiculous. Subtitles ruin movies those who are able to watch them so it's just a bit selfish to demand them and cry discrimination when you don't get them.

Bit you didnt quote.

Information about subtitled screenings is often inaccurate on cinema chains' own websites, so deaf people rely on a website called Your Local Cinema (which compiles accessible cinema times across the country) for the right times and dates. But deaf customers are still advised to check whether the subtitled screening is going ahead before they actually turn up. Even when you've confirmed the screening, asking to see a scheduled subtitled film once you reach the box office usually results in frantic phone calls to the projection booth. There's nothing quite like being responsible for holding up a queue of people to get your evening off to a pleasant start. You end up holding your breath until the opening credits roll. Sometimes the subtitles appear, sometimes they don't. I know people who have a drawer full of free vouchers, so often have they been let down.

I think you missed the entire point of the story. It is a luxury and one which deaf people as well as yourself pay for the privilege of watching. Yet if the sound went or the information given to you turned out to be wrong you would be furious. But when it happens to deaf people you say "get over it, stop whinging".

Snakeblood · 12-09-2011 01:28PM

Lanaier wrote: »

Have to strongly disagree here, I guess it's different for everyone.
She doesn't really need them but I'll sometimes leave the English subs on in a movie for the better half (they're usually far more accurate than the Chinese ones) and it honestly never bothers me.

I used to think it was going to drive me crazy at first but I just stopped noticing.

To each their own, I'd be against it because of personal experience. Especially if there's a typo in the subtitles. Drives me nuts.

12-09-2011 01:31PM

Forest Master wrote: »

I know you're trying to be all PC, etc, but deaf people can't hear the subtleties or tone in people's voices (in movies or real life), so they can't grasp the full scope of emotional tension - that's a fact. It's not un-PC or ignorant to state a fact. If you can't hear, then you can't hear - that's all I'm saying. I never said they shouldn't do anything.

Well, obviously. That doesn't mean they can't enjoy everything else. You do know that in the olden days, all the movies were silent? And people still went to watch them and enjoyed them?

Logical Fallacy · 12-09-2011 01:51PM

Forest Master wrote: »

I know you're trying to be all PC, etc, but deaf people can't hear the subtleties or tone in people's voices (in movies or real life), so they can't grasp the full scope of emotional tension - that's a fact. It's not un-PC or ignorant to state a fact. If you can't hear, then you can't hear - that's all I'm saying. I never said they shouldn't do anything.

What about when you are reading a book?

Forest Master · 12-09-2011 02:32PM

Mythyka29 wrote: »

So similarly there's no point in any of us watching any foreign movie with subtitles, because yeah, we'll get a (generally) dodgy translation of the dialogue, but as we only have the translator's work to rely on (other than obvious things like tone of voice, etc.) we have no real idea of the depths of emotion or meaning present in the original. So what's the point?

Eh, but you can still hear them talking (and hear all the grunts/groans/music/background noise) and you can get a feel for the emotion in their voices when they talk.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I think what he is saying that unless he is handed every nuance of a piece of work on a plate it's beyond him to understand it.

Never said that, but nice try at twisting my point to make yourself look cool.
I said if you can't hear the movie, you can't enjoy it FULLY - subtitles or no subtitles - that's a fact.

Avery Acidic Lambaste wrote: »

Well, obviously. That doesn't mean they can't enjoy everything else. You do know that in the olden days, all the movies were silent? And people still went to watch them and enjoyed them?

Stupid point. Silent movies were made for no sound, so the visuals & the acting kept that in mind - current titles are far more dependant on sound effects, music & tones of speech.

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

What about when you are reading a book?

LOL - you have "logic" in your username & you asked that question. You think a book is like watching a movie with subtitles? Books describe the emotion that a character is feeling - subtitles don't. Get with it, FFS. You're trolling now with stupid points.

To the PC brigade ITT - I'm not having a go at deaf people, FFS - I'm saying they cannot possibly enjoy the FULL elements of a movie or any type of audio/video piece of art. That's a fact. That's why there's Audio & Visual. You can substitute the audio with subtitles all you want, but you're stupid if you think it's the same thing. Very stupid.
Try watching a music video with no sound, except subtitles for the lyrics - let me know if you like the song afterwards...

Lanaier · 12-09-2011 02:35PM

Forest Master wrote: »

Try watching a music video with no sound, except subtitles for the lyrics - let me know if you like the song afterwards...

:pac:

This should be good.

Demonique · 12-09-2011 02:45PM

These thread is chock-full of ignorant morons

Mythyka29 · 12-09-2011 02:47PM

Forest Master wrote: »

To the PC brigade ITT - I'm not having a go at deaf people, FFS - I'm saying they cannot possibly enjoy the FULL elements of a movie or any type of audio/video piece of art. That's a fact. That's why there's Audio & Visual. You can substitute the audio with subtitles all you want, but you're stupid if you think it's the same thing. Very stupid.
Try watching a music video with no sound, except subtitles for the lyrics - let me know if you like the song afterwards...

But you are having a go at Deaf people. You're just a little stupid if you can't recognise that you are. You're saying their life experience is limited. No one is saying subtitles are the same as being able to hear a soundtrack. They are however an attempt to let people who can't for whatever reason access the soundtrack, have an idea of what's going on. It's a great idea, makes people people feel included and valued, means they CAN enjoy the movie (despite what you think), and then you come along with your 'and thats a fact' attitude, which is, if you sat back and thought about it for two seconds, not the nicest attitude in the world.

Incidentally you can generally recognise when someone is being offensive and ignorant by when they use terms like the 'PC Brigade'. It's the mark of an idiotic train of thought.

Seems like the identity of the troll was misplaced.

12-09-2011 02:51PM

Forest Master wrote: »

Stupid point. Silent movies were made for no sound, so the visuals & the acting kept that in mind - current titles are far more dependant on sound effects, music & tones of speech.

They use sound effects and music because they can. It's still perfectly possible to watch and enjoy a film with the sound off and subtitles on. Is it as enjoyable as being able to hear the dialogue and the music? No, probably not, but the point is, deaf people don't have the option. You're suggesting they just shouldn't bother with films at all if they can't enjoy them like the rest of us.

LOL - you have "logic" in your username & you asked that question. You think a book is like watching a movie with subtitles? Books describe the emotion that a character is feeling - subtitles don't. Get with it, FFS. You're trolling now with stupid points.

And the acting/expressions describe the emotions that a character is feeling. If you're unable to get how a character is feeling while watching a film with the sound off, then frankly, you're a bit dim.

To the PC brigade ITT - I'm not having a go at deaf people, FFS - I'm saying they cannot possibly enjoy the FULL elements of a movie or any type of audio/video piece of art. That's a fact. That's why there's Audio & Visual. You can substitute the audio with subtitles all you want, but you're stupid if you think it's the same thing. Very stupid.
Try watching a music video with no sound, except subtitles for the lyrics - let me know if you like the song afterwards...

You're really good at stating the obvious. I don't see many people saying that deaf people can fully appreciate a film without being able to hear it. The point is, there's still plenty to enjoy, even if one 'important' part is taken away. You can't imagine watching a film with no sound because you were fortunate enough to be born hearing. That doesn't mean a deaf person would think watching a film is a waste of time.

Liam Byrne · 12-09-2011 02:56PM

Take out your mobile phone and dial 888

Overheal · 12-09-2011 03:01PM

Subtitle glasses as mentioned earlier could also display a sign-person for the deaf. headphone jacks could even play alternate language tracks for people, and for the blind could also play an audio track with action-descriptions.

Aside from that no I wouldn't be a big fan of subtitles in my movie.

Forest Master · 12-09-2011 03:04PM

Mythyka29 wrote: »

You're saying their life experience is limited.

Eh, what? It is - they can't hear.

Son Of A Vidic · 12-09-2011 03:05PM

It's amazing, there was no problem accommodating fat kunts by widening seats over the years. Yet deaf people who haven't decided to be deaf, are neglected.

EI_Flyboy · 12-09-2011 03:16PM

Ireland has one of the highest rates of disability of disability at 1 in 10. That happens to be a huge market so it's simple economics to cater to them. There are many not so obvious disabilities about such as the socially retarded. They often look no different to anyone else and are only given away by their 6 year old level intellect and gimme gimme gimme I want everything my way screw everyone else attitude. Unlike other disability sufferers, I genuinely feel sorry for these people as there's very little chance they'll experience any happiness in life other than that derived from spite.

Cineworld show subtitled shows on Monday evenings and Saturday mornings. I used to go with a deaf friend of mine before he drank himself into oblivion because he found it too hard to deal with the sh1tty time he's had in our wonderfully misguided society and it's inability to protect those most at risk.

Latchy · 12-09-2011 03:27PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It's amazing, there was no problem accommodating fat kunts by widening seats over the years. Yet deaf people who haven't decided to be deaf, are neglected.

I lol's at that ...

Actually I do remember a friend of mine, who is partially deaf in one ear saying that some cinema theatres in uk provide a loop system for hearing aid users so that his aid became like a lil headphone which enabled him to hear the movie dialogue .Of course will not be of much use to somebody with more severe deafness .

gargleblaster · 12-09-2011 03:37PM

This thread reminds me of a small fracas regarding deaf parents refusing treatment for deaf children. Not wanting to impose 'hearing culture' on their children or something. Completely off topic I know but I found that very odd so now any time I read anything about deaf people I think of that.

Ok, pardon the interruption, please do continue with the bickering.

pickarooney · 12-09-2011 03:38PM

I think it would be an interesting experiment to get a few video clips from obscure films, remove the sound and post them up, then see how many people can figure out what's going on based on the actors' expressions, lip movements and actions.

Logical Fallacy · 12-09-2011 03:39PM

Forest Master wrote: »

LOL - you have "logic" in your username & you asked that question. You think a book is like watching a movie with subtitles? Books describe the emotion that a character is feeling - subtitles don't. Get with it, FFS. You're trolling now with stupid points.

Facial expressions in movies describe what a character is feeling.

Books don't tell you the kind of voice a person has...or a thousand other aspects of a character. If you ask 10 different people who have read the same book to draw the same character they will all draw them differently.

It's funny that you think not being able to hear means that deaf people have a stilted ability to understand the nuance of film.

The dozens and dozens of deaf students I have worked with would very much a disagree with you.

Good stuff on the trolling accusations...the last bastion of people who can't quite grasp where the conversation is headed.

landsleaving · 12-09-2011 03:40PM

gargleblaster wrote: »

This thread reminds me of a small fracas regarding deaf parents refusing treatment for deaf children. Not wanting to impose 'hearing culture' on their children or something.

Can you explain that? Or just link to an article about the small fracas? Hearing culture? What the hell is that???

The only time I hear culture is when I see a foreign movie, and even then I need subtitles to know what's going on.

Snakeblood · 12-09-2011 03:44PM

gargleblaster wrote: »

This thread reminds me of a small fracas regarding deaf parents refusing treatment for deaf children. Not wanting to impose 'hearing culture' on their children or something. Completely off topic I know but I found that very odd so now any time I read anything about deaf people I think of that.

Ok, pardon the interruption, please do continue with the bickering.

I remember that. One person said it amounted to 'genocide' for deaf people.

although there's a video of a deaf kid hearing for the first time due to an apparatus, that just melts the heart. Google it!

Mythyka29 · 12-09-2011 03:46PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

there's a video of a deaf kid hearing for the first time due to an apparatus, that just melts the heart. Google it!

There are also plenty of heart-melting moments to be had when a Deaf kid signs for the first time to his parents. All depends on your point of view.

gargleblaster · 12-09-2011 03:47PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

I remember that. One person said it amounted to 'genocide' for deaf people.

although there's a video of a deaf kid hearing for the first time due to an apparatus, that just melts the heart. Google it!

Oh I've seen that video! It is amazing. The one where he hears his mother's voice, right? I may be thinking of a different one.

I didn't hear about the genocide comment - that's outrageous!

gargleblaster · 12-09-2011 03:50PM

landsleaving wrote: »

Can you explain that? Or just link to an article about the small fracas? Hearing culture? What the hell is that???

Sorry but no, I can't explain it. It baffles me.

A quick google turned up this though. There's tons more out there, all equally puzzling from my view.

http://www.michdhh.org/assistive_devices/cochlear_implants.html

Deaf Children in Deaf Families

Deaf children who are born into a culturally Deaf family may have very little exposure to spoken language, although they are fluent in American Sign Language. These children have been raised in a family that values ASL and Deaf culture. Deaf parents may be very proud of their Deaf child and may consider a cochlear implant as an attempt to impose hearing culture and values on their child.

I didn't read much of the site, but that comment seems to summarize the views of those who would be opposed allowing their children to get cochlear implants.

Snakeblood · 12-09-2011 03:51PM

Mythyka29 wrote: »

There are also plenty of heart-melting moments to be had when a Deaf kid signs for the first time to his parents. All depends on your point of view.

I'm sure it is. Not really germane though.

Gargleblaster- Yeah it was on BBC, I don't think it represented the deaf community as a whole, you get nutters in all walks of life.

alexjk · 12-09-2011 03:51PM

landsleaving wrote: »

Can you explain that? Or just link to an article about the small fracas? Hearing culture? What the hell is that???

The only time I hear culture is when I see a foreign movie, and even then I need subtitles to know what's going on.

It's probably something that doesn't occur to hearing people (but why would it really?) but deaf people have their own norms and shared experiences, they have their own culture really. Up until relatively recently, and I'm talking the 90's at least, if you were deaf then you had to go to the deaf school in Cabra to be educated.

It didn't matter if you were from Donegal or Kerry, you weren't going to your local mainstream school. So, at the age of 4/5, you only get to see your family at the weekends, and short ones at that considering the journey involved in getting back to Dublin. This is just one of many such things that make deaf people bond.

If you really think about what it's like to be deaf, just how difficult it is to communicate with the larger community compared to how easy it is to communicate with other deaf people then you can see why there would be a deaf world.

I hope I've explained that right!

Deaf people and Cinemas.. Just accept your lot?

Comments