11 Kids Under 12

cynder · 09-09-2011 04:50PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Why not put it at a cut off of €100,000 pa post tax? That is more than enough to provide a good lifestyle for children and are in no need of €1680 a year!

Net income would be approx 150k after tax and prsi are taken out would be left with under 100k.

On a different note,

Some people who have 6 kids do have good jobs but what if their good highly job is lost and they take a lower paid job and have 6 kids and cant afford to feed and cloth them with out full child benefit? should they then kill the 4 kids? of course not! even if they sell their big house they could still be in negative equity.... for some its a no win situation, should they not be helped out after all their years of paying higher tax?

cynder · 09-09-2011 05:03PM

has anyone thought about how capping would work, would it be capped at the mothers 2nd child or the dads? the dad could have 20 kids with 10 different girls or the girl could have 6 different kids by 6 different dads.

or you could have a married couple with 3 kids or a married couple who were divorced with 2 kids each from a previous relationship and 3 kids of their own.

in my case im the 3rd child of my mothers but the 2nd child of my dads as my mom was married before. it needs a lot more thought than capping at 2 kids.....

wild_cat · 09-09-2011 05:06PM

grindelwald wrote: »

Net income would be approx 150k after tax and prsi are taken out would be left with under 100k.

On a different note,

Some people who have 6 kids do have good jobs but what if their good highly job is lost and they take a lower paid job and have 6 kids and cant afford to feed and cloth them with out full child benefit? should they then kill the 4 kids? of course not! even if they sell their big house they could still be in negative equity.... for some its a no win situation, should they not be helped out after all their years of paying higher tax?

The logically way would be to faze it out over a number of years. So families with more than two children would keep their normal payment but any child born to a family where two children are already present would not be applicable for the payment after the cut off date.

A cooling off period would be in place you see.

To answer right above I presume it would work on a one family unit basis. But if it worked like that it could be uber abused under the "four kids, four different Daddies" system that some people have going on. Hopefully they could legislate for people taking the complete piss.

Aishae · 09-09-2011 05:06PM

Rather than trying to put a cap on how many kids you can have. Would it not be fairer to put a cap on child benefit such as - you can not get child benefit for more than 2/3 children.

wild_cat · 09-09-2011 05:10PM

Aishae wrote: »

Rather than trying to put a cap on how many kids you can have. Would it not be fairer to put a cap on child benefit such as - you can not get child benefit for more than 2/3 children.

That's the point of the whole thread I think.

Mike 1972 · 09-09-2011 05:13PM

Noo need to cap it but it should work on a sliding scale. The allowance for the second child should be less than for the first and so on.

As things stand IIRC its the other way around which is pretty insane.

wolfpawnat wrote: »

]Ireland used have a population of 8 million.

Yep and I seem to remember something happened............

Physical space is not the only (or even main) constraint determining a sustainable popuation level for a country/region.

Aishae · 09-09-2011 05:13PM

wild_cat wrote: »

Aishae wrote: »

Rather than trying to put a cap on how many kids you can have. Would it not be fairer to put a cap on child benefit such as - you can not get child benefit for more than 2/3 children.

That's the point of the whole thread I think.

Yeah and it's a point that makes sense. It's the population control idea that sounds a bit much

cynder · 09-09-2011 05:14PM

wild_cat wrote: »

The logically way would be to faze it out over a number of years. So families with more than two children would keep their normal payment but any child born to a family where two children are already present would not be applicable for the payment after the cut off date.

A cooling off period would be in place you see.

To answer right above I presume it would work on a one family unit basis. But if it worked like that it could be uber abused under the "four kids, four different Daddies" system that some people have going on. Hopefully they could legislate for people taking the complete piss.

It would in no way be fare to pay out child benefit to people in my above comment and not pay it to a married couple with 3 kids of their own. yet the slapper next door has 6 kids with 6 different daddies and gets full child benefit because for each dad its their first child.

also what if the person has one child and then goes on to have triplets? or quads? (not by ivf)

wild_cat · 09-09-2011 05:16PM

grindelwald wrote: »

It would in no way be fare to pay out child benefit to people in my above comment and not pay it to a married couple with 3 kids of their own. yet the slapper next door has 6 kids with 6 different daddies and gets full child benefit because for each dad its their first child.

Yeah. I thats what I meant by the "four children, four different daddies" system... taking the piss legislation would also need to be introduced to combat that.

Hence why Fathers rights need to be improved in this country and Fathers not paying for their children need to be combated to!

cynder · 09-09-2011 05:21PM

what about this scenario

married mom with 2 kids husband dies, she remarries, the new guy has no kids and really wants kids of his own ?

should he be denied that chance?

the 2 other kids aren't his flesh n blood! why should he have to pay for the other 2? why should he not get child benefit for his 2?

they would end up with 4 getting child benefit still not fare to the married couple with 3 kids........

seems like to much legislation!

or visa versa, wife dies leaving behind 2 kids with their dad, he remarries and his new wife has no kids and wants kids, should she remain barron?

again seems like to much legislation!

wolfpawnat · 09-09-2011 05:34PM

You see with the modern world we cannot legislate how many kids people can and cannot have.

Twins and triplets are v common here in Ireland, due to genetics I have a high probability of having a set of twins.

If I were to get pregnant I could go from having one child (the one I have now) to having 3 and if there was a cap on how many to aid with and it was 2, having a set of twins would be very hard for me (though I kept everything from my son as I want to have more, later!!!)

The women who are in receipt of CB for children by numerous of men are a joke, we all know at least one like that. But again, one girls silly mistake at 18 should not cause her to be a target for bias legislation when she is 36 and happily married.

It really is a no win situation.

wolfpawnat · 09-09-2011 05:37PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Yep and I seem to remember something happened............

Physical space is not the only (or even main) constraint determining a sustainable popuation level for a country/region.

Yep, the Brits took all our food that wasn't spuds and shot us for trying to fish and hunt for meat, but that is a story for another thread

We could sustain a larger population if we were more practical with our country, on a financial and social level. Not 8 million, but the growth we are naturally going through.

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 09-09-2011 06:01PM

i can tell you what's sick,many who are retiring are finding their pensions are worth nothing,whilst the last shower who did fck all work but most damage are been rewarded well.

wild_cat · 09-09-2011 06:19PM

grindelwald wrote: »

what about this scenario

married mom with 2 kids husband dies, she remarries, the new guy has no kids and really wants kids of his own ?

should he be denied that chance?

the 2 other kids aren't his flesh n blood! why should he have to pay for the other 2? why should he not get child benefit for his 2?

they would end up with 4 getting child benefit still not fare to the married couple with 3 kids........

seems like to much legislation!

or visa versa, wife dies leaving behind 2 kids with their dad, he remarries and his new wife has no kids and wants kids, should she remain barron?

again seems like to much legislation!

I don't care at this point to tell you the truth.

I'm just fed up with people with a mini bus amount of kids complaining of cuts left right and centre.

I'm a single middle income earner.. paying for kids I don't think people should be even having. One shoe will have to fit all i'm afraid. Future tax payers or not the state shouldn't have to fit the bill for any man or woman who likes creating his or her own mini village population in a three bed house.

Hence why it should only be two. Your replacing the parents at that number and people might not be getting it their whole own way but they'll be getting something.

You don't get something for nothing in this life and I know the tax system isn't fair..... but if cuts have to be made some where.... and only so many sectors and sections of the community like myself can keep taking the hit.

I'd rather cut or means test child benefit than cut the dole tbh.

cynder · 09-09-2011 06:54PM

wild_cat wrote: »

I don't care at this point to tell you the truth.

I'm just fed up with people with a mini bus amount of kids complaining of cuts left right and centre.

I'm a single middle income earner.. paying for kids I don't think people should be even having. One shoe will have to fit all i'm afraid. Future tax payers or not the state shouldn't have to fit the bill for any man or woman who likes creating his or her own mini village population in a three bed house.

Hence why it should only be two. Your replacing the parents at that number and people might not be getting it their whole own way but they'll be getting something.

You don't get something for nothing in this life and I know the tax system isn't fair..... but if cuts have to be made some where.... and only so many sectors and sections of the community like myself can keep taking the hit.

I'd rather cut or means test child benefit than cut the dole tbh.

At lot of middle income earners pay more than enough tax to cover the child benefit they receive, so you do not pay their child benefit :P

* sounds like you have no kids........

11 Kids Under 12

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