Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

Bosco boy · 08-09-2011 02:43AM

deadwood wrote: »

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The point is though people HAVE disagreed with it. People in this thread have implied that it's ok for a Gard to offer to get a friend off a ticket as it's trivial.

Don't confuse the use of the power of discretion with doing a friend a favour. There's an important difference.

I've missed the posts where people (guards or real people) have implied that it's ok for a guard to get a friend off a ticket.

The thread almost returned to a reasonable discussion about the rights and wrongs of the abuse of the rules of the road by gardai, but some posters will continue to blindly accuse and defend positions.

I find, that when a member of the public is shouting the odds at me, accusing me and my colleagues of this and that, I'll tell them they're probably correct and make a fair point and then instruct them how to take proper action if they actually want to do something about it rather than blow off steam or try to out wit a beleaguered guard in front of their comrades. They usually walk away a bit disappointed and confused because they didn't get the row they wanted and the guy they wanted to have a go at told them they were right.

I'd suggest a similar approach by some posters here.

that's no fun at all

tayto lover · 08-09-2011 09:42AM

Bosco boy wrote: »

that's no fun at all

Now now Bosco. Put that coffee away when you're driving up the bus lane.

hatrickpatrick · 08-09-2011 04:03PM

deadwood wrote: »

Don't confuse the use of the power of discretion with doing a friend a favour. There's an important difference.

I've missed the posts where people (guards or real people) have implied that it's ok for a guard to get a friend off a ticket.

I made a remark earlier saying that ALL croneyism should be banned on principle, and this was the response I got:

hondasam wrote: »

It must really drive you nuts when they get themselves and friends of speeding fines.
If you got done for speeding and a friend offered to get you off, what would you say?

I said I'd refuse it on principle and lose all respect for the person offering it.

hondasam wrote: »

Is it the same in your eyes for everything?
You will not accept a favour for anything eg, doctor app, tickets for match,parking fine, clampers etc.

Perhaps this post was sarcastic? Really didn't look like it though.
This kind of thing isn't ok in any section of society. Where do you draw the line? Today it's a Garda getting a friend off a parking fine, tomorrow it's a minister for finance bailing out his friend's bank, or a Minister for education covering up abuse at his friend's industrial school.

Sounds over the top? It is, but it's EXACTLY what's happened to this country. It's one f*cker of a slippery slope. This is supposed to be a society where everyone is equal and there are no privileges based on who you know. And it's absolutely paramount that we keep it that way, to avoid a repeat of what we've seen over the last number of years in so many areas of our society.

tayto lover · 08-09-2011 04:26PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I made a remark earlier saying that ALL croneyism should be banned on principle, and this was the response I got:

I said I'd refuse it on principle and lose all respect for the person offering it.

Perhaps this post was sarcastic? Really didn't look like it though.
This kind of thing isn't ok in any section of society. Where do you draw the line? Today it's a Garda getting a friend off a parking fine, tomorrow it's a minister for finance bailing out his friend's bank, or a Minister for education covering up abuse at his friend's industrial school.

Sounds over the top? It is, but it's EXACTLY what's happened to this country. It's one f*cker of a slippery slope. This is supposed to be a society where everyone is equal and there are no privileges based on who you know. And it's absolutely paramount that we keep it that way, to avoid a repeat of what we've seen over the last number of years in so many areas of our society.

Too much like RoboCop for me. No society is ever perfect. What will we have next? Sacking someone for taking home one of the company's pens. The whole thread was about a Garda car using the bus lanes ( as it turned out they were entitled to do) and stopping at a garage for a coffee, then it got way out of order because people had grudges, jealousy and pure bile so took aim and let fly at them. Most of it untrue and Fantasy Island stuff as i already stated. People need to get a grip and get back to reality. Last night i watched a programme about 9/11. When the citizens of N.Y. were running away from the Twin Towers i saw the Police and Firemen running towards the buildings many of them never to return. Maybe when something like that happens here people that will come back to their senses and lose their petty whinging. We have one of the best Police Forces in the World here in Ireland.

By the way you didn't point out any post in which you actually praised the Garda yet.

hondasam · 08-09-2011 04:37PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I made a remark earlier saying that ALL croneyism should be banned on principle, and this was the response I got:

I said I'd refuse it on principle and lose all respect for the person offering it.

Perhaps this post was sarcastic? Really didn't look like it though.
This kind of thing isn't ok in any section of society. Where do you draw the line? Today it's a Garda getting a friend off a parking fine, tomorrow it's a minister for finance bailing out his friend's bank, or a Minister for education covering up abuse at his friend's industrial school.

Sounds over the top? It is, but it's EXACTLY what's happened to this country. It's one f*cker of a slippery slope. This is supposed to be a society where everyone is equal and there are no privileges based on who you know. And it's absolutely paramount that we keep it that way, to avoid a repeat of what we've seen over the last number of years in so many areas of our society.

I wasn't been sarcastic, people use influence to get what they want, it's a fact of life. People ask their local TD or councillor for help with Planning and other numerous things, the list is endless.

You will not ask for a favour on principle and that's great but you are probably in a minority there.

MagicSean · 08-09-2011 04:40PM

It'd be a pretty ****ty world if nobody helped each other out for fear of upsetting someone else.

Snakeblood · 08-09-2011 04:42PM

hondasam wrote: »

I wasn't been sarcastic, people use influence to get what they want, it's a fact of life. People ask their local TD or councillor for help with Planning and other numerous things, the list is endless.

You will not ask for a favour on principle and that's great but you are probably in a minority there.

Yeah, they do, but that doesn't make it right. Those local tds who changed the planning for their mates ****ed the country. They don't really bolster the case for it being harmless.

tayto lover · 08-09-2011 04:50PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

Yeah, they do, but that doesn't make it right. Those local tds who changed the planning for their mates ****ed the country. They don't really bolster the case for it being harmless.

I agree with you. BUT there is a big difference between that and a Garda having his cap crooked or drinking a coffee while working. One is a crime the other is not.

hondasam · 08-09-2011 05:01PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

Yeah, they do, but that doesn't make it right. Those local tds who changed the planning for their mates ****ed the country. They don't really bolster the case for it being harmless.

This could go on for ever, right or wrong, TD's and councillors help people with what ever it's not always wrong. Good things are done in communities with the help of these people.

I know about all the bad things that went on but some good things happened also.

people help each other with a favour,it's not a crime.

Bosco boy · 08-09-2011 05:32PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

deadwood wrote: »

Don't confuse the use of the power of discretion with doing a friend a favour. There's an important difference.

I've missed the posts where people (guards or real people) have implied that it's ok for a guard to get a friend off a ticket.

I made a remark earlier saying that ALL croneyism should be banned on principle, and this was the response I got:

hondasam wrote: »

It must really drive you nuts when they get themselves and friends of speeding fines.
If you got done for speeding and a friend offered to get you off, what would you say?

I said I'd refuse it on principle and lose all respect for the person offering it.

hondasam wrote: »

Is it the same in your eyes for everything?
You will not accept a favour for anything eg, doctor app, tickets for match,parking fine, clampers etc.

Perhaps this post was sarcastic? Really didn't look like it though.
This kind of thing isn't ok in any section of society. Where do you draw the line? Today it's a Garda getting a friend off a parking fine, tomorrow it's a minister for finance bailing out his friend's bank, or a Minister for education covering up abuse at his friend's industrial school.

Sounds over the top? It is, but it's EXACTLY what's happened to this country. It's one f*cker of a slippery slope. This is supposed to be a society where everyone is equal and there are no privileges based on who you know. And it's absolutely paramount that we keep it that way, to avoid a repeat of what we've seen over the last number of years in so many areas of our society.

hatrickpatrick are you telling us that you never got a break from anyone in life. I'm not corrupt and I have principles as good as the next person but I have no problem giving a person a break ( you might call it a favour) if they are a bollocks or have a bad attitude or are taking the piss they will get what's coming. If they are a decent folk who might be slightly offside and it's not serious I may well give a caution if I feel it will work. It's rare that you meet these people again. I've had guys in their late 20's approch me who I gave a break to in their teens and thank me for it as it could have messed up their career, the break may have been for a public order incident and they were waiting for me the next day to apologise when I arrived at work and they were genuine and it was out of character and they were from all walks of life. You are comparing cop on to corruption. Thank god your not a cop, i'm baffled what your alleged work in the Garda college was, will you please pm me and put me out of my misery!

hatrickpatrick · 08-09-2011 05:59PM

hondasam wrote: »

I wasn't been sarcastic, people use influence to get what they want, it's a fact of life. People ask their local TD or councillor for help with Planning and other numerous things, the list is endless.

You will not ask for a favour on principle and that's great but you are probably in a minority there.

People murder, rape and steal from others too. That's "a fact of life". Does that make it something society should tolerate when it catches people in the act?

Snakeblood · 08-09-2011 06:02PM

hondasam wrote: »

This could go on for ever, right or wrong, TD's and councillors help people with what ever it's not always wrong. Good things are done in communities with the help of these people.

I know about all the bad things that went on but some good things happened also.

people help each other with a favour,it's not a crime.

Yeah, but people also like to know that people will receive equitable treatment from gardai, and you are saying that they don't receive fair treatment, based on how friendly they are with you, and that you think it's ok.

Discretionary power should mean 'I'll let this person off a speeding ticket because he has a pregnant wife in the back and is going to hospital' not 'I'll let this person off a ticket because I know him'.

hatrickpatrick · 08-09-2011 06:03PM

Bosco boy wrote: »

hatrickpatrick are you telling us that you never got a break from anyone in life. I'm not corrupt and I have principles as good as the next person but I have no problem giving a person a break ( you might call it a favour) if they are a bollocks or have a bad attitude or are taking the piss they will get what's coming. If they are a decent folk who might be slightly offside and it's not serious I may well give a caution if I feel it will work. It's rare that you meet these people again. I've had guys in their late 20's approch me who I gave a break to in their teens and thank me for it as it could have messed up their career, the break may have been for a public order incident and they were waiting for me the next day to apologise when I arrived at work and they were genuine and it was out of character and they were from all walks of life. You are comparing cop on to corruption. Thank god your not a cop, i'm baffled what your alleged work in the Garda college was, will you please pm me and put me out of my misery!

Whoa hold on a second, I never worked in any Garda college! :eek:
Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else?! I never claimed to have worked in it or anything like that.

I'm ok with giving people a break if they're decent and apologize for it and all that. That's hardly the same as getting someone out of a parking ticket because they're a friend, or as others are saying, a TD fiddling planning permission for his mates.

This thread turned into a debate praising croneyism and I absolutely can't defend that as it's what has ruined our country. Like I said, today you're getting someone out of a parking fine or giving them preferential treatment for planning permission, tomorrow you're bailing out Anglo because "Ah sure Seanie's a mate like".

hatrickpatrick · 08-09-2011 06:04PM

hondasam wrote: »

people help each other with a favour,it's not a crime.

If that "favour" is helping to pervert the course of justice, then yes it is indeed a crime.

hondasam · 08-09-2011 06:07PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

People murder, rape and steal from others too. That's "a fact of life". Does that make it something society should tolerate when it catches people in the act?

Snakeblood wrote: »

Yeah, but people also like to know that people will receive equitable treatment from gardai, and you are saying that they don't receive fair treatment, based on how friendly they are with you, and that you think it's ok.

Discretionary power should mean 'I'll let this person off a speeding ticket because he has a pregnant wife in the back and is going to hospital' not 'I'll let this person off a ticket because I know him'.

Look lets agree to disagree on what is an acceptable favour and what is corruption.

I stand by what I said, we or some of us accept favours from friends.

Snakeblood · 08-09-2011 06:08PM

hondasam wrote: »

Look lets agree to disagree on what is an acceptable favour and what is corruption.

I stand by what I said, we or some of us accept favours from friends.

No, dude, you getting your mates off parking tickets or speeding tickets because you know them is corruption. If you disagree, you're wrong.

hondasam · 08-09-2011 06:09PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

If that "favour" is helping to pervert the course of justice, then yes it is indeed a crime.

You are been over dramatic and you know it. we are not on about serious offences.

Have you never ever accepted a favour from anyone?

Bosco boy · 08-09-2011 06:10PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Bosco boy wrote: »

hatrickpatrick are you telling us that you never got a break from anyone in life. I'm not corrupt and I have principles as good as the next person but I have no problem giving a person a break ( you might call it a favour) if they are a bollocks or have a bad attitude or are taking the piss they will get what's coming. If they are a decent folk who might be slightly offside and it's not serious I may well give a caution if I feel it will work. It's rare that you meet these people again. I've had guys in their late 20's approch me who I gave a break to in their teens and thank me for it as it could have messed up their career, the break may have been for a public order incident and they were waiting for me the next day to apologise when I arrived at work and they were genuine and it was out of character and they were from all walks of life. You are comparing cop on to corruption. Thank god your not a cop, i'm baffled what your alleged work in the Garda college was, will you please pm me and put me out of my misery!

Whoa hold on a second, I never worked in any Garda college! :eek:
Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else?! I never claimed to have worked in it or anything like that.

I'm ok with giving people a break if they're decent and apologize for it and all that. That's hardly the same as getting someone out of a parking ticket because they're a friend, or as others are saying, a TD fiddling planning permission for his mates.

This thread turned into a debate praising croneyism and I absolutely can't defend that as it's what has ruined our country. Like I said, today you're getting someone out of a parking fine or giving them preferential treatment for planning permission, tomorrow you're bailing out Anglo because "Ah sure Seanie's a mate like".

if you were a cop what offences would consider appropiate for giving people a break on?

hondasam · 08-09-2011 06:11PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

No, dude, you getting your mates off parking tickets or speeding tickets because you know them is corruption. If you disagree, you're wrong.

Fine I'm wrong. Speeding fine was just an example as was the parking fine.
There are plenty of people who would get out of paying the fine and not getting the penalty points if they could.

Snakeblood · 08-09-2011 06:16PM

hondasam wrote: »

Fine I'm wrong. Speeding fine was just an example as was the parking fine.
There are plenty of people who would get out of paying the fine and not getting the penalty points if they could.

Yeah, and they can't, so why should your example friends get away with it? What's wrong with the people who are charged with upoholding the law applying it fairly to everyone?

I'm not being aggressive, like, I just can't see how you don't see it as a problem that a gard can decide to pursue someone because they either like or dislike them. That's not a perk of the job, that's not doing your job, surely?

I HEREBY SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE BEFORE GOD THAT_I WILL FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES OF A MEMBER OF THE GARDA SIOCHANA WITH FAIRNESS, INTEGRITY, REGARD FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, DILIGENCE AND IMPARTIALITY, UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAW AND ACCORDING EQUAL RESPECT TO ALL PEOPLE.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0020/sec0016.html

The bits in bold are the bits I think are being ignored when you show favour to your mates because they are your mates.

Snowie · 08-09-2011 06:17PM

But sure the garda cant drive, wtf a traffic cop chase any sort of hot hatch down b road in his people carrier

all I'll say is good luck mate hope you like your hopes and dreams..

tayto lover · 08-09-2011 06:21PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

Yeah, and they can't, so why should your example friends get away with it? What's wrong with the people who are charged with upoholding the law applying it fairly to everyone?

I'm not being aggressive, like, I just can't see how you don't see it as a problem that a gard can decide to pursue someone because they either like or dislike them. That's not a perk of the job, that's not doing your job, surely?

I HEREBY SOLEMNLY AND SINCERELY DECLARE BEFORE GOD THAT_I WILL FAITHFULLY DISCHARGE THE DUTIES OF A MEMBER OF THE GARDA SIOCHANA WITH FAIRNESS, INTEGRITY, REGARD FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, DILIGENCE AND IMPARTIALITY, UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION AND THE LAW AND ACCORDING EQUAL RESPECT TO ALL PEOPLE.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0020/sec0016.html

The bits in bold are the bits I think are being ignored when you show favour to your mates because they are your mates.

And make sure you don't lend your neighbour your lawnmower or borrow his. You know how that could be looked at.
Some baffling stuff on here.

hondasam · 08-09-2011 06:25PM

This has gone full circle now from doing a favour to corruption, not forgetting the coffee at the garage.

tayto lover · 08-09-2011 06:29PM

hondasam wrote: »

This has gone full circle now from doing a favour to corruption, not forgetting the coffee at the garage.

Yes indeed. They have moved the goalposts again as they were getting nowhere fast with the bus lanes. Their grief is worse than i thought.

Snakeblood · 08-09-2011 06:29PM

hondasam wrote: »

This has gone full circle now from doing a favour to corruption, not forgetting the coffee at the garage.

Welp, that's the joys of debate for you.

Snowie · 08-09-2011 06:29PM

hondasam wrote: »

This has gone full circle now from doing a favour to corruption, not forgetting the coffee at the garage.

They sell coffee since when?

HarryPotter41 · 08-09-2011 08:58PM

Bosco boy wrote: »

hatrickpatrick are you telling us that you never got a break from anyone in life. I'm not corrupt and I have principles as good as the next person but I have no problem giving a person a break ( you might call it a favour) if they are a bollocks or have a bad attitude or are taking the piss they will get what's coming. If they are a decent folk who might be slightly offside and it's not serious I may well give a caution if I feel it will work. It's rare that you meet these people again. I've had guys in their late 20's approch me who I gave a break to in their teens and thank me for it as it could have messed up their career, the break may have been for a public order incident and they were waiting for me the next day to apologise when I arrived at work and they were genuine and it was out of character and they were from all walks of life. You are comparing cop on to corruption. Thank god your not a cop, i'm baffled what your alleged work in the Garda college was, will you please pm me and put me out of my misery!

I believe its called the attitude test, fail it and you will get the book thrown at ya. I have always applied it in life, and I am not even a Garda.

Jagdtiger · 08-09-2011 09:27PM

There a while back, I saw a squad car stuck in traffic have its sirens turn

on and what do you think happened next? It pulled out of the lane making

every other car stop or pull out of its way, went trough a roundabout and

straight to McDonalds! A garda jumped out and went in only to come out with

a few bags of take-away food 5 minute later. He got back into the car, sirens

on and headed out past all the traffic again and off towards the station!!!:mad:

MagicSean · 08-09-2011 09:30PM

Jagdtiger wrote: »

There a while back, I saw a squad car stuck in traffic have its sirens turn

on and what do you think happened next? It pulled out of the lane making

every other car stop or pull out of its way, went trough a roundabout and

straight to McDonalds! A garda jumped out and went in only to come out with

a few bags of take-away food 5 minute later. He got back into the car, sirens

on and headed out past all the traffic again and off towards the station!!!:mad:

No you didn't.

Jagdtiger · 08-09-2011 09:38PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

No you didn't.

Yes, I did...

I honestly couldn't believe it either, thought it was funny at the time, but

looking back now:rolleyes:

Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

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