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Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

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Comments

  • #392
    deadwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    0O7 wrote: »
    ok so, you try working until 6am, then drive home for an hour, sleep, get up, drive an hour and be back in work for 2pm the same day....

    see if you want a cup of coffee then...
    I'm surprised this thread is still open, but for what it's worth 007, I have been doing those shifts for more years than I care to remember. And it's still tae, not that ground up dust that passes for coffee in most places. (walking into work with a coffee and a copy of the Times under your arm will get you branded as, well...something!)
    The Highwayman wrote: »
    If you cant afford to live near your job, even with all the garda perks ie. home insurance, mortgage rates and loans its not my fault. Maybe if you worked hard and went to Uni instead of just being tall and stupid you could have got a good job where this is not an issue. By the way what unit in what station finishes at 6am and is back in at 2pm don't you have rules on rest time?????
    Please quote one, just ONE perk from your list.

    Folks. People get very excited when they see a guard pick their hole of choice, eat/drink/be merry whether on or off duty. We're in the public eye, so it goes with the territory. If they go to the bother of making an issue of it here instead of complaining to the Ombudsman, then what of it. We have the right to reply here too. Like it or not, we are expected to hold higher standards than our fellow citizens.

    Yes, we eat/smoke/scratch on duty, talk to our mammies down the country on the phone and - shock horror - get things wrong occasionally. We work in an age where we are likely to be filmed and or taped and reported on, whether officially or on Boards.ie. If you're doing your job, you've nothing to worry about. Joe public is still on your side when it comes down to it.

    And, Citizens, a chairde, let the poor guard have his coffee. If this thread is to be believed, we are an uneducated, immoral, corrupt group who flout the law and put lives at risk for the sake of a shnack box in the bus lane. Is a coffee on duty the worst thing he/she could do?


  • #393
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    deadwood wrote: »
    I'm surprised this thread is still open, but for what it's worth 007, I have been doing those shifts for more years than I care to remember. And it's still tae, not that ground up dust that passes for coffee in most places. (walking into work with a coffee and a copy of the Times under your arm will get you branded as, well...something!)


    Please quote one, just ONE perk from your list.

    Folks. People get very excited when they see a guard pick their hole of choice, eat/drink/be merry whether on or off duty. We're in the public eye, so it goes with the territory. If they go to the bother of making an issue of it here instead of complaining to the Ombudsman, then what of it. We have the right to reply here too. Like it or not, we are expected to hold higher standards than our fellow citizens.

    Yes, we eat/smoke/scratch on duty, talk to our mammies down the country on the phone and - shock horror - get things wrong occasionally. We work in an age where we are likely to be filmed and or taped and reported on, whether officially or on Boards.ie. If you're doing your job, you've nothing to worry about. Joe public is still on your side when it comes down to it.

    And, Citizens, a chairde, let the poor guard have his coffee. If this thread is to be believed, we are an uneducated, immoral, corrupt group who flout the law and put lives at risk for the sake of a shnack box in the bus lane. Is a coffee on duty the worst thing he/she could do?

    I like this, it's reasoned and evenhanded and not a blind defence of whatever a gard does being right (or attack on every gard being wrong).


  • #394
    tmcw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭tmcw


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Not really.

    Yes it is.

    Garda driving into the bus lane (if indeed it was a Garda), nearly taking a cyclist out, I didn't see any indication that he was responding to an emergency, and no indication that he was changing lanes, or are they exempt from having to use indicators when switching lanes?

    First thing he says is that she was in the middle of the road, which she wasn't, and if she was, that's no excuse to nearly side-swipe her; if her cycling was an issue, he should have pulled in safely further up the road, and stopped and spoken to her then. Seems the only reason for him stopping was after her gesture, which I doubt is a criminal offense; or did she hurt his feelings with her gesture?


  • #395
    tmcw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 396 ✭✭tmcw


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    ...I did four years in UCD before joining ...

    Pretty meaningless unless we know what you studied and when you completed your 4 years. Not all degrees (or qualifications) are the same.

    And no, I don't want to know what you studied.


  • #396
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah it is a load of balls that a blind eye is turned to all this and the muppets that make every excuse for guards on here ffs, they are by law equally bound to the rules of the road yet we see them sounding sirens to break lights, switch off on other side of junction and drive casually, rushing to garage for food, it's not fair.


    Should I be fined for using a bus lane, even though I pay road tax, even though my car had problems and I'm running late for my flight, job, some other "worthy" excuse? Should i remain parked at the ghost traffic lights in the middle of the night that give quiet barely used junctions excessive green light time?


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  • #397
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    jonsnow wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/garda-in-fatal-crash-didnt-have-a-driving-licence-inquest-told-1945362.html

    A garda who was on his way to court when he knocked down and killed a pensioner did not have a driving licence, an inquest has heard.

    Garda Brian O'Connor held only a provisional licence and this expired over three years before the collision which claimed the life of Claire Barr (77). However, Dublin City Coroner's Court yesterday heard that under current legislation gardai do not need to hold a licence when they are driving a vehicle in the course of their duties.

    That is amazing.


  • #398
    Feeona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,632 ✭✭✭Feeona


    tmcw wrote: »
    Pretty meaningless unless we know what you studied

    And no, I don't want to know what you studied.

    Read : It's pointless trying to defend yourself because I've made up my mind regardless of facts.


  • #399
    angelfire9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭angelfire9


    I've been watching this thread for the last few days and I'm not going to start quoting back posts that I believe are factually incorrect so I'll try and summarise:

    1) Gardai flaunt the rules of the Road whenever it suits them

    Technically, the rules of the road do not apply to Gardai driving official cars and therefore it is a moot point
    BUT
    If you see a Garda car using a bus lane or running a red light regardless of whether or not they are on blues & twos you don't actually know what they are doing unless you are either A) Hacking in to the tetra system and listening to call outs or B) You follow the car
    If you see a squad car using a bus lane & going into a petrol station shortly thereafter can u state for a fact that the petrol station didn't ring the gardai to report a theft or someone driving off without paying for their petrol (Can't think of the name for this) ?


    B) Gardai use mobile phones in the car all the time

    Ok, there are 2 aspects to this
    Firstly official cars are not fitted with bluetooth devices this is NOT the fault of the members driving the cars
    In the Clare/Limerick division about 5 years ago a company called Decibel (no longer trading) sent a flyer to every Garda station in Clare advertising reduced cost bluetooth devices for members cars & official vehicles, lots of members took up the offer, the official cars couldn't be fitted with them because of "procurement procedures" :(

    Secondly, everyone seems to know about Tetra and how great it is but outside of the DMA there are vast regions of the country where the Tetra reception is crap
    Members will also rather use their mobiles that radios when relaying sensitive information back to the station
    I used this example before but anyway...
    Mary Jane Bloggs rings the Garda station and reports and assault, the Gardai respond and when they arrive on scene they find the "assault" is actually a rape, so the investigating Garda RINGS the garda station to tell them the assault is an alleged rape and to request a doctor and a banner to meet them at the station, and scene of crimes officers to go to Mary Jane's house
    If you were Mary Jane's brother, husband, son would you want that kind of information relayed by phone or over Tetra where the entire division would know that Mary Jane had been raped??

    3) The trips to Abra or the local chipper in the squad car

    Prisoners are entitled to food and rest while being detained for questioning
    In Ennis the Gardai get the prisoner's meals from the Queens Hotel (a few hundred metres up the road from the station) they ring up, request the meal be it breakfast/lunch or dinner and the hotel will deliver it to the station where the SO signs for it... job done
    BUT if the request comes in at 7.30am or 10pm or in the middle of the lunchtime rush the hotel will tell the lads to come up for it because they can't spare the staff to deliver it
    Now in Ennis, they will generally walk up the road to collect it but most stations aren't that close to the food outlets and therefore a car is needed to collect, because believe me the prisoner will whinge if the grub is cold!

    4) Gardai should live close to their stations

    I don't know if the rule is still in existence but there used to be a 30 mile rule where members were not permitted to live within 30 miles of their home
    Therefore lots of lads have to drive 30-45 mins a day to get to work
    If you are on a 10pm-6am shift and back on a 2pm-10pm that day then coffee is pretty much a life saver
    (this rule does not apply to the Tae drinking deadwood) :D

    And for the record the Organisation of Working Times act & all other employment legislation introduced to protect employees does NOT APPLY to members of the Gardai or the defence forces

    5) All Gardai are idiots with few braincells who got the job because they are tall

    Not all tall people who apply get into AGS ;)
    Not all members are tall (especially when they relaxed the height rule)
    Not all members are uneducated twits I know lots of lads with law degrees or degrees in HR or Social Work that are serving members
    PLUS
    Templemore operates a system of continuous training where lads can study things like people management and conflict resolution etc etc

    6) Gardai use the uniform & the squad car to pull chicks (or guys as the case may be) or to drive their friends & family home from the pub when scuttered

    In my entire life I have NEVER gotten a lift in a squad car for any reason
    This is despite living in the grounds of the Garda station for years and my father working a 9-5 shift as IC while I was in school from 9-4 down the road from the station (I used to sit in Dad's car doing my homework for the hour til he got off)
    When dad was in T/C when I was 9/10 they got a really snazzy new car in town and I begged & pleaded to be let in to have a look and he wouldn't let me :(

    In fact (even though I actually married one) in my late teens and early 20's I practised my flirting routines on many a yellow pack in our local station but I wouldn't have gone out with a Garda to save my life! :D:D


    Now.... what have i missed?? :D


  • #400
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    angelfire9 wrote: »
    I've been watching this thread for the last few days and I'm not going to start quoting back posts that I believe are factually incorrect so I'll try and summarise:

    1) Gardai flaunt the rules of the Road whenever it suits them

    Technically, the rules of the road do not apply to Gardai driving official cars and therefore it is a moot point
    BUT
    If you see a Garda car using a bus lane or running a red light regardless of whether or not they are on blues & twos you don't actually know what they are doing unless you are either A) Hacking in to the tetra system and listening to call outs or B) You follow the car
    If you see a squad car using a bus lane & going into a petrol station shortly thereafter can u state for a fact that the petrol station didn't ring the gardai to report a theft or someone driving off without paying for their petrol (Can't think of the name for this) ?


    B) Gardai use mobile phones in the car all the time

    Ok, there are 2 aspects to this
    Firstly official cars are not fitted with bluetooth devices this is NOT the fault of the members driving the cars
    In the Clare/Limerick division about 5 years ago a company called Decibel (no longer trading) sent a flyer to every Garda station in Clare advertising reduced cost bluetooth devices for members cars & official vehicles, lots of members took up the offer, the official cars couldn't be fitted with them because of "procurement procedures" :(

    Secondly, everyone seems to know about Tetra and how great it is but outside of the DMA there are vast regions of the country where the Tetra reception is crap
    Members will also rather use their mobiles that radios when relaying sensitive information back to the station
    I used this example before but anyway...
    Mary Jane Bloggs rings the Garda station and reports and assault, the Gardai respond and when they arrive on scene they find the "assault" is actually a rape, so the investigating Garda RINGS the garda station to tell them the assault is an alleged rape and to request a doctor and a banner to meet them at the station, and scene of crimes officers to go to Mary Jane's house
    If you were Mary Jane's brother, husband, son would you want that kind of information relayed by phone or over Tetra where the entire division would know that Mary Jane had been raped??

    3) The trips to Abra or the local chipper in the squad car

    Prisoners are entitled to food and rest while being detained for questioning
    In Ennis the Gardai get the prisoner's meals from the Queens Hotel (a few hundred metres up the road from the station) they ring up, request the meal be it breakfast/lunch or dinner and the hotel will deliver it to the station where the SO signs for it... job done
    BUT if the request comes in at 7.30am or 10pm or in the middle of the lunchtime rush the hotel will tell the lads to come up for it because they can't spare the staff to deliver it
    Now in Ennis, they will generally walk up the road to collect it but most stations aren't that close to the food outlets and therefore a car is needed to collect, because believe me the prisoner will whinge if the grub is cold!

    4) Gardai should live close to their stations

    I don't know if the rule is still in existence but there used to be a 30 mile rule where members were not permitted to live within 30 miles of their home
    Therefore lots of lads have to drive 30-45 mins a day to get to work
    If you are on a 10pm-6am shift and back on a 2pm-10pm that day then coffee is pretty much a life saver
    (this rule does not apply to the Tae drinking deadwood) :D

    And for the record the Organisation of Working Times act & all other employment legislation introduced to protect employees does NOT APPLY to members of the Gardai or the defence forces

    5) All Gardai are idiots with few braincells who got the job because they are tall

    Not all tall people who apply get into AGS ;)
    Not all members are tall (especially when they relaxed the height rule)
    Not all members are uneducated twits I know lots of lads with law degrees or degrees in HR or Social Work that are serving members
    PLUS
    Templemore operates a system of continuous training where lads can study things like people management and conflict resolution etc etc

    6) Gardai use the uniform & the squad car to pull chicks (or guys as the case may be) or to drive their friends & family home from the pub when scuttered

    In my entire life I have NEVER gotten a lift in a squad car for any reason
    This is despite living in the grounds of the Garda station for years and my father working a 9-5 shift as IC while I was in school from 9-4 down the road from the station (I used to sit in Dad's car doing my homework for the hour til he got off)
    When dad was in T/C when I was 9/10 they got a really snazzy new car in town and I begged & pleaded to be let in to have a look and he wouldn't let me :(

    In fact (even though I actually married one) in my late teens and early 20's I practised my flirting routines on many a yellow pack in our local station but I wouldn't have gone out with a Garda to save my life! :D:D


    Now.... what have i missed?? :D


    You missed the bit where people call anyone who questions garda liars.


  • #401
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Interesting

    If the gardai are going to use a buslane (or taxis for that matter) the least they can do is use them safely...whizzing along at the speed limit with adjacent traffic flow in the next lane meaning you can't lane swap should mean slowing down slightly and waitng for a safe passing opportunity, not shaving some cyclists' arse with your wing mirror.
    The attitide of that driver just goes to indicate the respect some gardaí have for road safety (not RotR)...in the proper run of event they'd have pulled in the taximan and given him the bollocking not the girl on the bike. Then again that sort of thing is below plainclothes...


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  • #402
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    The Highwayman wrote: »
    If you cant afford to live near your job, even with all the garda perks ie. home insurance, mortgage rates and loans its not my fault. Maybe if you worked hard and went to Uni instead of just being tall and stupid you could have got a good job where this is not an issue. By the way what unit in what station finishes at 6am and is back in at 2pm don't you have rules on rest time?????


    The fact that you don't understand the rosters worked by gardai shows that many people in here have no grasp of the job. I am a civilian worker for the Garda Siochana and work the exact same hours and it is a punishing schedule, 7 shifts in a row and twice in that tour you have 8 hours between shifts, try if for a couple of weeks and see how you get on. Believe me, you will find the coffee is the only thing keeping your system going by the end of the week


  • #403
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    angelfire9 wrote: »
    I
    3) The trips to Abra or the local chipper in the squad car

    Prisoners are entitled to food and rest while being detained for questioning
    In Ennis the Gardai get the prisoner's meals from the Queens Hotel (a few hundred metres up the road from the station) they ring up, request the meal be it breakfast/lunch or dinner and the hotel will deliver it to the station where the SO signs for it... job done
    BUT if the request comes in at 7.30am or 10pm or in the middle of the lunchtime rush the hotel will tell the lads to come up for it because they can't spare the staff to deliver it
    Now in Ennis, they will generally walk up the road to collect it but most stations aren't that close to the food outlets and therefore a car is needed to collect, because believe me the prisoner will whinge if the grub is cold!


    No-one said detainees aren't entitled to eat (although some on here mentioned bread and water) and every town/city is different.
    In this town the cops use abra because it opens the latest. As far as I'm aware, that same restaurant deliver and have dedicated drivers, but yet it's not unusual to see a squad car outside it at any time of the day (although it's predomoninantly at night).
    My point is that in my locale at least that the waste of a garda's time, the vehicle and the cost involved should mean that delivery drivers are used. Doing it the other way makes absolutely no sense, regardless of your pro or anti Garda agenda.
    That's not a criticism of the garda doing the food run, it's a criticism of the practice which is determined by those higher up the chain of command.
    We're not living in tigerland anymore, resources are already stretched so increasing efficiency by removing poor use of valuable time should be a priority.

    Or we could go for the loaf of dunnes bread and a bottle of ballygowan option thrown in the examination hatch, for the hang em high brigade :)


  • #404
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Wertz wrote: »
    No-one said detainees aren't entitled to eat (although some on here mentioned bread and water) and every town/city is different.
    In this town the cops use abra because it opens the latest. As far as I'm aware, that same restaurant deliver and have dedicated drivers, but yet it's not unusual to see a squad car outside it at any time of the day (although it's predomoninantly at night).
    My point is that in my locale at least that the waste of a garda's time, the vehicle and the cost involved should mean that delivery drivers are used. Doing it the other way makes absolutely no sense, regardless of your pro or anti Garda agenda.
    That's not a criticism of the garda doing the food run, it's a criticism of the practice which is determined by those higher up the chain of command.
    We're not living in tigerland anymore, resources are already stretched so increasing efficiency by removing poor use of valuable time should be a priority.

    Or we could go for the loaf of dunnes bread and a bottle of ballygowan option thrown in the examination hatch, for the hang em high brigade :)


    If its a busy night how long might the delivery take, I agree with not wasting resources but you also have to look at the Gardai protecting their own asses by not having someone making a complaint because they were left hungry too long. Sadly most Gardai have to operate in a CYA atmosphere, this thread being typical of the kind of thing that goes on with scrutiny from the public, and irrational scrutiny a lot of the time at that.


  • #405
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    Quit with the siege mentality...not everyone is looking at you or cares what you're doing whilst on duty. My own observations are from over the years.
    Busy nights: do you think the guy in the cell hasn't waited on a food delivery before? He/she has a right to compalin if food is withheld for a long period of time, but ffs, an hour or so (which is going to be max wait at busy times) isn't going to come in under the geneva convention. Chances are on the same busy night the officer grabbing the takeaway will wait as long for the order.

    If people are going scrutinise irrationally then colouring between the lines should be in every garda's interest...top of that tree would be observing safe practice (not rules) in traffic situations. They're as human as the rest of us, no matter what you think of them and are just as liable to cause an accident or injury with poor roadcraft...


  • #406
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Wertz wrote: »
    Quit with the siege mentality...not everyone is looking at you or cares what you're doing whilst on duty. My own observations are from over the years.
    Busy nights: do you think the guy in the cell hasn't waited on a food delivery before? He/she has a right to compalin if food is withheld for a long period of time, but ffs, an hour or so (which is going to be max wait at busy times) isn't going to come in under the geneva convention. Chances are on the same busy night the officer grabbing the takeaway will wait as long for the order.

    If people are going scrutinise irrationally then colouring between the lines should be in every garda's interest...top of that tree would be observing safe practice (not rules) in traffic situations. They're as human as the rest of us, no matter what you think of them and are just as liable to cause an accident or injury with poor roadcraft...

    You may not think there is a siege mentality, but there is, because there are people in this country waiting to complain, most of them the scumbags who shouldn't be complaining. Its a sad fact pf life in ireland, and Gardai are not the only people suffering it.


  • #407
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Wertz wrote: »
    Quit with the siege mentality...not everyone is looking at you or cares what you're doing whilst on duty. My own observations are from over the years.
    Busy nights: do you think the guy in the cell hasn't waited on a food delivery before? He/she has a right to compalin if food is withheld for a long period of time, but ffs, an hour or so (which is going to be max wait at busy times) isn't going to come in under the geneva convention. Chances are on the same busy night the officer grabbing the takeaway will wait as long for the order.

    If people are going scrutinise irrationally then colouring between the lines should be in every garda's interest...top of that tree would be observing safe practice (not rules) in traffic situations. They're as human as the rest of us, no matter what you think of them and are just as liable to cause an accident or injury with poor roadcraft...

    You may not think there is a siege mentality, but there is, because there are people in this country waiting to complain, most of them the scumbags who shouldn't be complaining. Its a sad fact pf life in ireland, and Gardai are not the only people suffering it.

    in my experience very high % of complainers and whingers are hyprocrites anyway with little to do but whinge but not all in fairness. I personally am very reluctant to use the phone while driving for safety reasons and I do think It looks bad but if it's work related and of an emergency nature I will use the phone, its possible that the emergency might be over within a few minutes and I may not have to attend the call, I might decide to take advantage of the gap between calls and grab a coffee and catch up on missed calls, meanwhile my friend with a grievence who I passed pulls into the filling station and has a hissy fit (in private) cause I'm having a coffee, he heads to the pub at the weekend and tells his mates about the outrage and tags the red light bit on for a bit of credibility. For the record any Garda that breaks a red light for a coffee is a tit and with 12,000 members recuited from the public you will get a few tits getting through the same as any job. Maybe the regular bashers might state their occupations and we could compare. Methinks they won't!


  • #408
    deadwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Snakeblood wrote: »
    You missed the bit where people call anyone who questions garda liars.
    While I wouldn't accuse any person of lying, it's very easy for someone to post anonymously on a forum about having seen something negative. I have no doubt that some guards have indeed eaten food on duty.

    Bus drivers, taxi drivers, friends in the guards etc., may well be impeccable sources, but unless these stories are first hand accounts, they amount to little more than hearsay. This, however, is an internet forum, so the rule of evidence do not apply. If it's not libel, I won't lose any sleep on my short 8 hours between shifts. Reasonable people will decide for themselves which stories are true and which are just urban myth (or legends in my case).

    I have no doubt that several patrol cars have congregated at eateries in towns and cities all over the country. Fortunately, the criminal fraternity haven't cottoned on to our habits and, like most people, also have their breakfast/lunch/shnackbox at similar times to the rest of us.

    Yes, we use bus lanes. I've abused the mystical slimming powers of the uniform while talking to real women (my wife is a woman). I've driven safely through traffic with the neenaws and disco lights and then stopped because I wasn't needed. I've even been known to let people off with offences just because they had a good excuse. Guilty as charged folks, but would you want it any other way?


  • #409
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    deadwood wrote: »
    While I wouldn't accuse any person of lying, it's very easy for someone to post anonymously on a forum about having seen something negative. I have no doubt that some guards have indeed eaten food on duty.

    Bus drivers, taxi drivers, friends in the guards etc., may well be impeccable sources, but unless these stories are first hand accounts, they amount to little more than hearsay. This, however, is an internet forum, so the rule of evidence do not apply. If it's not libel, I won't lose any sleep on my short 8 hours between shifts. Reasonable people will decide for themselves which stories are true and which are just urban myth (or legends in my case).

    I have no doubt that several patrol cars have congregated at eateries in towns and cities all over the country. Fortunately, the criminal fraternity haven't cottoned on to our habits and, like most people, also have their breakfast/lunch/shnackbox at similar times to the rest of us.

    Yes, we use bus lanes. I've abused the mystical slimming powers of the uniform while talking to real women (my wife is a woman). I've driven safely through traffic with the neenaws and disco lights and then stopped because I wasn't needed. I've even been known to let people off with offences just because they had a good excuse. Guilty as charged folks, but would you want it any other way?

    I'll put it like this: I don't like being called a liar if discussing something. I'd like some weight given to what I say in a discussion forum, otherwise I start thinking that the other person isn't arguing in good faith and in fact, doesn't want to discuss at all but just wants to stifle any form of debate. What's the point of talking about anything if the opposing viewpoint can just say 'actually, I think you're lying' whenever anyone makes any point that doesn't agree with what they think.

    I went into this thread trying to discuss things reasonably, and occasionally I got that, and more often I got people either calling me a liar, being unable to either answer or debate points raised, or to look past a blanket 'everything guards do is good' mentality that is as unrealistic as an 'all coppers are bastards'.

    I don't think you have been doing that, but I think people have, which has made me react badly and has also ruined any chance to talk about things constructively.


  • #410
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    deadwood wrote: »
    I'm surprised this thread is still open, but for what it's worth 007, I have been doing those shifts for more years than I care to remember. And it's still tae, not that ground up dust that passes for coffee in most places. (walking into work with a coffee and a copy of the Times under your arm will get you branded as, well...something!)


    Please quote one, just ONE perk from your list.

    Folks. People get very excited when they see a guard pick their hole of choice, eat/drink/be merry whether on or off duty. We're in the public eye, so it goes with the territory. If they go to the bother of making an issue of it here instead of complaining to the Ombudsman, then what of it. We have the right to reply here too. Like it or not, we are expected to hold higher standards than our fellow citizens.

    Yes, we eat/smoke/scratch on duty, talk to our mammies down the country on the phone and - shock horror - get things wrong occasionally. We work in an age where we are likely to be filmed and or taped and reported on, whether officially or on Boards.ie. If you're doing your job, you've nothing to worry about. Joe public is still on your side when it comes down to it.

    And, Citizens, a chairde, let the poor guard have his coffee. If this thread is to be believed, we are an uneducated, immoral, corrupt group who flout the law and put lives at risk for the sake of a shnack box in the bus lane. Is a coffee on duty the worst thing he/she could do?

    No of course it isn't, this is a BS straw man. He should have to wait at the lights like every other citizen of this country, that's all we're saying.

    A Garda abusing his or her exemptions from the law for non work related trips is like a health inspector abusing his or her position to skip the queue in McDonald's and get a free breakfast.


  • #411
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Snakeblood wrote: »
    deadwood wrote: »
    While I wouldn't accuse any person of lying, it's very easy for someone to post anonymously on a forum about having seen something negative. I have no doubt that some guards have indeed eaten food on duty.

    Bus drivers, taxi drivers, friends in the guards etc., may well be impeccable sources, but unless these stories are first hand accounts, they amount to little more than hearsay. This, however, is an internet forum, so the rule of evidence do not apply. If it's not libel, I won't lose any sleep on my short 8 hours between shifts. Reasonable people will decide for themselves which stories are true and which are just urban myth (or legends in my case).

    I have no doubt that several patrol cars have congregated at eateries in towns and cities all over the country. Fortunately, the criminal fraternity haven't cottoned on to our habits and, like most people, also have their breakfast/lunch/shnackbox at similar times to the rest of us.

    Yes, we use bus lanes. I've abused the mystical slimming powers of the uniform while talking to real women (my wife is a woman). I've driven safely through traffic with the neenaws and disco lights and then stopped because I wasn't needed. I've even been known to let people off with offences just because they had a good excuse. Guilty as charged folks, but would you want it any other way?

    I'll put it like this: I don't like being called a liar if discussing something. I'd like some weight given to what I say in a discussion forum, otherwise I start thinking that the other person isn't arguing in good faith and in fact, doesn't want to discuss at all but just wants to stifle any form of debate. What's the point of talking about anything if the opposing viewpoint can just say 'actually, I think you're lying' whenever anyone makes any point that doesn't agree with what they think.

    I went into this thread trying to discuss things reasonably, and occasionally I got that, and more often I got people either calling me a liar, being unable to either answer or debate points raised, or to look past a blanket 'everything guards do is good' mentality that is as unrealistic as an 'all coppers are bastards'.

    I don't think you have been doing that, but I think people have, which has made me react badly and has also ruined any chance to talk about things constructively.

    grow up and move on this isn't the local playground!


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  • #412
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    grow up and move on this isn't the local playground!
    Awesome post, cheers. Really contributing.


  • #413
    polyfusion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 679 ✭✭✭polyfusion


    deadwood wrote: »
    ...I've even been known to let people off with offences just because they had a good excuse. Guilty as charged folks, but would you want it any other way?

    I'm genuinely interested in examples of offenses you've let people off with, and what excuses were given.

    Would it be like allowing a bus driver to continue with damaged tyres and bit's of wire sticking out of them like we saw on that traffic show on RTE a few years back?


  • #414
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    polyfusion wrote: »
    deadwood wrote: »
    ...I've even been known to let people off with offences just because they had a good excuse. Guilty as charged folks, but would you want it any other way?

    I'm genuinely interested in examples of offenses you've let people off with, and what excuses were given.

    Would it be like allowing a bus driver to continue with damaged tyres and bit's of wire sticking out of them like we saw on that traffic show on RTE a few years back?

    your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't, I bet you'd be well able to plea for a break on the side of the road when it comes to yourself and whinge if you didn't get it!


  • #415
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't, I bet you'd be well able to plea for a break on the side of the road when it comes to yourself and whinge if you didn't get it!

    Are you trying to make the gardai look better or worse?


  • #416
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Snakeblood wrote: »
    Bosco boy wrote: »
    your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't, I bet you'd be well able to plea for a break on the side of the road when it comes to yourself and whinge if you didn't get it!

    Are you trying to make the gardai look better or worse?

    take it any way you like


  • #417
    polyfusion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 679 ✭✭✭polyfusion


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't, I bet you'd be well able to plea for a break on the side of the road when it comes to yourself and whinge if you didn't get it!

    No, you're incorrect about me, you'd be better off keeping your thoughts about what actions or directions I would take when stopped for breaches of the law to yourself.

    And I think the word you were thinking of was "damned". The context of your "your" should have been spelled as "you are" or "you're" as well, but you can post what you like, your tone throughout the thread says a lot about you.


  • #418
    Wertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    You may not think there is a siege mentality, but there is, because there are people in this country waiting to complain, most of them the scumbags who shouldn't be complaining. Its a sad fact pf life in ireland, and Gardai are not the only people suffering it.

    My reference to "siege mentality" was towards members of the force both on here and in general in public. The Us and Them thing cuts both ways.

    Most people support what the gardaí do...although some have a problem with the way they do some things and as usual the few bad apples give you all a bad name when it comes to certain things...
    As for scumbags that shouldn't be complaining...obviously they're the ones who are going to shout the loudest because it's in their interest to hate the guards, but that doesn't give certain garda carte blanche to treat them any differently than any other member of the public they encounter in their day-to-day dealings, and if scumbags are treated unfairly or more harshly because they're scumbags then they have some right to complain...


  • #419
    Snakeblood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Snakeblood


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    take it any way you like

    I know how I'm tkaing it, I was wondering what you thought of how you're acting, if you thought that people would say 'Well, obviously the gardai are reasonable and willing to talk about things' or 'obviously, the gardai have an us and them mentality and don't like being questioned by people, and throw the toys out of the pram when someone does'.

    Like Deadwood (who I also presume is a gard) up there is talking reasonably about how things are, and here you are exasperated that anyone dares ask a question, even if it's quite innocuous.


  • #420
    deadwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    Snakeblood wrote: »
    I'll put it like this: I don't like being called a liar if discussing something. I'd like some weight given to what I say in a discussion forum, otherwise I start thinking that the other person isn't arguing in good faith and in fact, doesn't want to discuss at all but just wants to stifle any form of debate.y.
    That's fair, but it's not unreasonable to seek some kind of proof and an internet forum isn't a court so both sides of the debate have to make allowances. You'll provide weight to your own argument by providing proof - your readers can't be expected to fill in the gaps, otherwise innuendo and "I heard from a fella who knows a guy" is the benchmark for reasonable debate.
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    No of course it isn't, this is a BS straw man. He should have to wait at the lights like every other citizen of this country, that's all we're saying.

    A Garda abusing his or her exemptions from the law for non work related trips is like a health inspector abusing his or her position to skip the queue in McDonald's and get a free breakfast.
    I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but I think the (lets call them) pro-garda posters are saying is that the observer is not aware of the reason for the breaking of red lights/bylaws etc. In my own experience, it happens that you proceed to a call with sirens etc and then get the "stand-down", resulting in glares from other drivers who only see two guards skipping traffic. You shouldn't assume the guys are just doing it for their fill of donuts (chief wiggum has a lot to answer for).
    Also I wouldn't say that it has not or will not happen. If it does, then they're wrong. If you see it being done, then make a complaint and change things for the better.(and no, this won't result in a target on your back)
    polyfusion wrote: »
    I'm genuinely interested in examples of offenses you've let people off with, and what excuses were given.

    Would it be like allowing a bus driver to continue with damaged tyres and bit's of wire sticking out of them like we saw on that traffic show on RTE a few years back?
    Each case is different. You expect me to answer for someone elses actions? I didn't see this show, but maybe the driver already had an appointment to have his tyres fixed (he can't breeze into advance tyres in a bus, can he?). Maybe the guard weighed up his options and decided that allowing the bus to continue was safer than having it stopped with passengers on a roadside in a dangerous place? I don't know.

    Gardai have a power of discretion, which involves common sense. If it's zero tolerance you want, then fine. Just don't complain when you get a fine for doing 101kmh in a 100 zone.

    This debate needs some common sense on both sides.


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  • #421
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    polyfusion wrote: »
    Bosco boy wrote: »
    your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't, I bet you'd be well able to plea for a break on the side of the road when it comes to yourself and whinge if you didn't get it!

    No, you're incorrect about me, you'd be better off keeping your thoughts about what actions or directions I would take when stopped for breaches of the law to yourself.

    And I think the word you were thinking of was "damned". The context of your "your" should have been spelled as "you are" or "you're" as well, but you can post what you like, your tone throughout the thread says a lot about you.

    spell it out seeing as you are so good at spelling


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