Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

MagicSean · 06-09-2011 04:26PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

Where did I mention those? I thought we were talking about handsfree kits. If you want to change the topic to something else, then do it, but I'm not following along. throw in gold plated houses on the top of the car if you want to get incredibly stupid about it.

My point is that although it would not cost much to do any of those as well as hands free kits it still isn't done because there is no money left.

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2011 04:28PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

My point is that although it would not cost much to do any of those as well as hands free kits it still isn't done because there is no money left.

Why wasn't it done 5 years ago when the country was awash with golden handshakes and the like? :rolleyes:

Snakeblood · 06-09-2011 04:29PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

My point is that although it would not cost much to do any of those as well as hands free kits it still isn't done because there is no money left.

That's a reasonable point, which I previously acknowledged with the cheapy option of the crappy transferable handsfree kits (which still may not be cheap enough). Thanks for being civil.

Snakeblood · 06-09-2011 04:30PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why wasn't it done 5 years ago when the country was awash with golden handshakes and the like? :rolleyes:

That bit is out of the hands of the Gardai now...

MagicSean · 06-09-2011 04:31PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's ridiculous IMO, and it should be changed. In cases like the OP it is simply an abuse of position.

Nothing will change. People will still moan on the internet because they see a Garda do something and have no idea of the reasons and assume it is not justified. And who decides if it is justified? What about a report of a house alarm activated? 99% of these are false alarms so should attending these not be a good reason to break a light? What about picking up a meal for a prisoner? Would you want a patrol car sitting in traffic to do this or should they be able to use the bus lane to get it done quicker? What about flase reports of serious incidents? Should Gardaí apologise to every driver they overtook when the call is cancelled? There are many minor incidents which could require a Garda to break a traffic law. That is why the exemption exists.

MagicSean · 06-09-2011 04:33PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why wasn't it done 5 years ago when the country was awash with golden handshakes and the like? :rolleyes:

Why are you asking me? That's something you should ask your local Fianna Fail candidate about.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 04:33PM

Viper_JB wrote: »

Obvious troll is obvious :rolleyes:

No way am i trolling.
I happen to remember when the troubles were in full flow in my area of the border. I remember the protection rackets and the visitors to my premises looking for protection money and the few attempted robberies in my area. If it was not for the Garda we could not have survived and would not have been able to run our businesses. Those men/women protected our areas. I actually remember when petrol stations along the border were visited by subversives and told not to serve petrol to the Garda members. I remember gardai having their homes petrol bombed and their children intimidated because they were doing their duty.
But all that is forgotten now and the people who were allowed live their lives in a nice cozy area of the country can stick the boot in and complain about a garda smoking in a patrol car or drinking coffee while on duty.
Shame on you all.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 04:48PM

tayto lover wrote: »

No way am i trolling.
I happen to remember when the troubles were in full flow in my area of the border. I remember the protection rackets and the visitors to my premises looking for protection money and the few attempted robberies in my area. If it was not for the Garda we could not have survived and would not have been able to run our businesses. Those men/women protected our areas. I actually remember when petrol stations along the border were visited by subversives and told not to serve petrol to the Garda members. I remember gardai having their homes petrol bombed and their children intimidated because they were doing their duty.
But all that is forgotten now and the people who were allowed live their lives in a nice cozy area of the country can stick the boot in and complain about a garda smoking in a patrol car or drinking coffee while on duty.
Shame on you all.

And I remember at the height of the IRA bombing campaign in the UK when the Metropolitan Police regularly raided the homes of myself and other Irish people because we had signed a petition in support of the Guildford Four. We eventually had to take legal action against the Met for harassment.

I also remember being on trains with my two year old that had to be stopped because of bomb scares. I was in Warrington after the bomb and was stopped and questioned simply for being Irish.

The British Police were acting to protect people - it did not give them the right to break the law and harass.

I also remember my aunt's house being regularly 'searched' (trashed) by the Irish Special Branch as her in-laws were suspected of IRA membership - funnily enough extensive Garda searches failed to turn up either Shergar or Catherine MacGuinness in her small bungalow. She had to go to her TD and threaten legal action.

My aunt lived in Cork - is that cozy enough for you?

So what is your point? - that was then. This is now.

Viper_JB · 06-09-2011 04:52PM

tayto lover wrote: »

No way am i trolling.
I happen to remember when the troubles were in full flow in my area of the border. I remember the protection rackets and the visitors to my premises looking for protection money and the few attempted robberies in my area. If it was not for the Garda we could not have survived and would not have been able to run our businesses. Those men/women protected our areas. I actually remember when petrol stations along the border were visited by subversives and told not to serve petrol to the Garda members. I remember gardai having their homes petrol bombed and their children intimidated because they were doing their duty.
But all that is forgotten now and the people who were allowed live their lives in a nice cozy area of the country can stick the boot in and complain about a garda smoking in a patrol car or drinking coffee while on duty.
Shame on you all.

And based on this you can say that every garda in the country has a heart of gold and would never do any of the things mentioned on this thread...and that anyone who says anything else is a liar because it doesn't suit you.
I always find it amazing that one person can speak for the honesty of an entire profession, there are definitely bad apples in the gardai to say elswise is to be totally blind. For the most part they do a great job, but when you have a garda car straying across lanes and pulling off stupid manuvers on the phone it does stand out like a sore thumb, espically if that garda could charge a member of the public for doing the same, and the vast majority of gardai have not done any advanced driving course so are no more qualified to drive on the phone then any random member of the public. I really dislike seeing people driving while on the phone, they nearly always do something stupid.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 05:10PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And I remember at the height of the IRA bombing campaign in the UK when the Metropolitan Police regularly raided the homes of myself and other Irish people because we had signed a petition in support of the Guildford Four. We eventually had to take legal action against the Met for harassment.

I also remember being on trains with my two year old that had to be stopped because of bomb scares. I was in Warrington after the bomb and was stopped and questioned simply for being Irish.

The British Police were acting to protect people - it did not give them the right to break the law and harass.

I also remember my aunt's house being regularly 'searched' (trashed) by the Irish Special Branch as her in-laws were suspected of IRA membership - funnily enough extensive Garda searches failed to turn up either Shergar or Catherine MacGuinness in her small bungalow. She had to go to her TD and threaten legal action.

My aunt lived in Cork - is that cozy enough for you?

So what is your point? - that was then. This is now.

Maybe that explains why you don't post anything positive. Your posts don't really back up your words regarding having nothing against them, do they ?

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 05:14PM

Viper_JB wrote: »

And based on this you can say that every garda in the country has a heart of gold and would never do any of the things mentioned on this thread...and that anyone who says anything else is a liar because it doesn't suit you.
I always find it amazing that one person can speak for the honesty of an entire profession, there are definitely bad apples in the gardai to say elswise is to be totally blind. For the most part they do a great job, but when you have a garda car straying across lanes and pulling off stupid manuvers on the phone it does stand out like a sore thumb, espically if that garda could charge a member of the public for doing the same, and the vast majority of gardai have not done any advanced driving course so are no more qualified to drive on the phone then any random member of the public. I really dislike seeing people driving while on the phone, they nearly always do something stupid.

Nobody said they had no bad apples. They are weeding them out though since Donegal. Its the petty-mindness that annoys me. Why don't you take up your points with the Dept if it is so offensive to you or would that ruin your pleasure here in having them answer personally to you?

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 05:27PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe that explains why you don't post anything positive. Your posts don't really back up your words regarding having nothing against them, do they ?

Where EXACTLY - did I say I don't support the Gardaí?
I said that I had personally witnessed incidents where members of the force used their exception from traffic laws when not actively engaged in official duties. Your response was to call me a liar.

I will admit - I do object to the MINORITY of Guards who believe the possession of a warrant card places them above the law. You believe they have the right to do this because of events during the troubles.

I object precisely because I do support the MAJORITY of Gardaí who are being undermined by bad elements within the force. You do not believe there are bad elements - despite recent high profile cases including what happened in Donegal in 2005 : Top gardai in Donegal scandal may retire rather than be fired ( http://www.independent.ie/national-news/top-gardai-in-donegal-scandal-may-retire-rather-than-be-fired-252585.html).

I want a police force that has moral authority and the respect of the people - and therefore the support of the people. Not a force that has lost the respect of the citizens due to rogue elements and apologists who refuse to admit there is a problem with some members of the force.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 05:37PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Where EXACTLY - did I say I don't support the Gardaí?
I said that I had personally witnessed incidents where members of the force used their exception from traffic laws when not actively engaged in official duties. Your response was to call me a liar.

I will admit - I do object to the MINORITY of Guards who believe the possession of a warrant card places them above the law. You believe they have the right to do this because of events during the troubles.

I object precisely because I do support the MAJORITY of Gardaí who are being undermined by bad elements within the force. You do not believe there are bad elements - despite recent high profile cases including what happened in Donegal in 2005 : Top gardai in Donegal scandal may retire rather than be fired ( http://www.independent.ie/national-news/top-gardai-in-donegal-scandal-may-retire-rather-than-be-fired-252585.html).

I want a police force that has moral authority and the respect of the people - and therefore the support of the people. Not a force that has lost the respect of the citizens due to rogue elements and apologists who refuse to admit there is a problem with some members of the force.

If you cared to read my last post you would see that i have spoken about bad apples in the Garda. I also want the same as you regarding a respected force but to use the phrase "bad elements" regarding driving in bus lanes, smoking or drinking coffee is way over the top and par for the course to be honest. Petty-minded is the phrase i would use for those comments.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 05:50PM

tayto lover wrote: »

If you cared to read my last post you would see that i have spoken about bad apples in the Garda. I also want the same as you regarding a respected force but to use the phrase "bad elements" regarding driving in bus lanes, smoking or drinking coffee is way over the top and par for the course to be honest. Petty-minded is the phrase i would use for those comments.

It is not about being petty - quite the reverse. It is about public perception - if the Gardaí are perceived as flaunting the laws this has a knock on effect across society. The bad apples (who you admitted existed while I was writing my post so did not see it - your previous posts gave no indication you believed they existed) bring the uniform and thus the force into disrepute. An attitude of 'sure, why should I keep the law when the Guards don't' is hard to dispell. People don't see the individual - they see the uniform. Those in the uniform must therefore be seen to respect the law.
Driving in bus lanes when appearing not to be on official business (indicated by lights/sirens) but instead popping to the shop, smoking in their place of work (even if that is a squad car) and the other 'perks' are too easily seen as disrespectful of the laws of the state and a cause of division between the Gardaí and ordinary citizens. The Gardaí were created to police 'with the consent of the people' (which is why they are largely unarmed) if they lose the respect of the people due to 'bad apples' it will be a sorry day for Irish society. That road leads to a police 'force' keeping the peace not Guardians of the Peace as AGS were created to be.

0O7 · 06-09-2011 05:54PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Funny, I never noticed you sitting in my car.
Oh but it's a lie because you said it is. Good argument.

and tell us, how many of these cars did you see flying up the quays with sirens on etc??? did you follow them then or what and did see them pulling into the garda club?? did you see them getting lunch??

or is this just what you think MAY have happened???
or did none of this happen and did you just make it all up?

im interested

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 05:57PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It is not about being petty - quite the reverse. It is about public perception - if the Gardaí are perceived as flaunting the laws this has a knock on effect across society. The bad apples (who you admitted existed while I was writing my post so did not see it - your previous posts gave no indication you believed they existed) bring the uniform and thus the force into disrepute. An attitude of 'sure, why should I keep the law when the Guards don't' is hard to dispell. People don't see the individual - they see the uniform. Those in the uniform must therefore be seen to respect the law.
Driving in bus lanes when not on appearing to be on official business (indicated by lights/sirens), smoking in their place of work (even if that is a squad car) and the other 'perks' are too easily seen as disrespectful of the laws of the state.

You are entitled to your opinion but I hope it never comes down to the situation where silly little petty things deny us the kind of good natured chatty policemen i am used to meeting and talking to and who i have the greatest respect for. Especially if its just to please finicky people who have nothing better to do than watch them and complain.

I saw a postman smoking in his van today i must start a thread about him.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 06:04PM

0O7 wrote: »

and tell us, how many of these cars did you see flying up the quays with sirens on etc??? did you follow them then or what and did see them pulling into the garda club?? did you see them getting lunch??

or is this just what you think MAY have happened???
or did none of this happen and did you just make it all up?

im interested

Would you like the name of the Guards in question? Or their badge numbers? Perhaps have a friendly chat with them? I know their names and can get the numbers as I was meeting them for lunch - so yes. I knew exactly where they were going and why when they blew past. We could have gotten it on expenses as it was Templemore business but it was a pain sorting out receipts. I had the scampi.

I don't need to make things up - the truth is ALWAYS better than fiction.

Bosco boy · 06-09-2011 06:05PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

If you cared to read my last post you would see that i have spoken about bad apples in the Garda. I also want the same as you regarding a respected force but to use the phrase "bad elements" regarding driving in bus lanes, smoking or drinking coffee is way over the top and par for the course to be honest. Petty-minded is the phrase i would use for those comments.

It is not about being petty - quite the reverse. It is about public perception - if the Gardaí are perceived as flaunting the laws this has a knock on effect across society. The bad apples (who you admitted existed while I was writing my post so did not see it - your previous posts gave no indication you believed they existed) bring the uniform and thus the force into disrepute. An attitude of 'sure, why should I keep the law when the Guards don't' is hard to dispell. People don't see the individual - they see the uniform. Those in the uniform must therefore be seen to respect the law.
Driving in bus lanes when not on appearing to be on official business (indicated by lights/sirens), smoking in their place of work (even if that is a squad car) and the other 'perks' are too easily seen as disrespectful of the laws of the state.

Face it, the police raided your home as you said yourself, it would be normal that you would have a gripe. At least you had the honesty to tell us where you were coming from. Most the other bashers won't.

0O7 · 06-09-2011 06:06PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Would you like the name of the Guards in question? Or their badge numbers? Perhaps have a friendly chat with them? I know their names and can get the numbers as I was meeting them for lunch - so yes. I knew exactly where they were going and why when they blew past. We could have gotten it on expenses as it was Templemore business but it was a pain sorting out receipts. I had the scampi.

I don't need to make things up - the truth is ALWAYS better than fiction.

whats templemore business???

0O7 · 06-09-2011 06:07PM

i didnt even think the garda club was still open in cork?

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 06:07PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Would you like the name of the Guards in question? Or their badge numbers? Perhaps have a friendly chat with them? I know their names and can get the numbers as I was meeting them for lunch - so yes. I knew exactly where they were going and why when they blew past. We could have gotten it on expenses as it was Templemore business but it was a pain sorting out receipts. I had the scampi.

I don't need to make things up - the truth is ALWAYS better than fiction.

I for one still don't believe you though. Sounds too makey-uppy i'm afraid.
Don't believe you work in Templemor either.

0O7 · 06-09-2011 06:11PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Would you like the name of the Guards in question? Or their badge numbers? Perhaps have a friendly chat with them? I know their names and can get the numbers as I was meeting them for lunch - so yes. I knew exactly where they were going and why when they blew past. We could have gotten it on expenses as it was Templemore business but it was a pain sorting out receipts. I had the scampi.

I don't need to make things up - the truth is ALWAYS better than fiction.

ok ok... correct with if im wrong...

SO (Sigh) .......

your home was raided on terrorism grounds by the guards?
your sister is going out with a guard?? or getting spins around by him etc
you meet guards in the Garda club in cork, on "templremore bussiness?"
you hate the guards

thats all the different things that your saying on thios forum

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 06:18PM

0O7 wrote: »

ok ok... correct with if im wrong...

SO (Sigh) .......
your home was raided on terrorism grounds by the guards?

your sister is going out with a guard?? or getting spins around by him etc

you meet guards in the Garda club in cork, on "templremore bussiness?"

you hate the guards

My home was raided by the Metropolitan Police in London in the 1980s. My aunt's house was regularly raided by the Irish Special Branch in the 1970s - both were stopped due to legal action as both police forces were acting without evidence or in legal speak - due cause - or valid warrants.
A guard wanted to go out with my sister - so gave her spins in the squad car.
I have worked as a training consultant in Templemore (The Garda Training college) at their invitation.
When did I say I hate the guards? - in fact I said I respect the force but worry about the effects of the 'bad apples' on public perception which leads to the force being disrespected.

Perhaps before you ask questions you should read the information before you.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 06:20PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I for one still don't believe you though. Sounds too makey-uppy i'm afraid.
Don't believe you work in Templemor either.

If we are going to be silly I don't believe you live anywhere near the border and are in fact the sole occupant of a very small island in Clew Bay which has no roads or guards.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 06:23PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If we are going to be silly I don't believe you live anywhere near the border and are in fact the sole occupant of a very small island in Clew Bay which has no roads or guards.

Maybe while we are at it you have a gripe because the Garda ignored you and went for your sister because she is better looking or has a personality.See its easy to make things up but you already know that don't you.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 06:28PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe while we are at it you have a gripe because the Garda ignored you and went for your sister because she is better looking or has a personality.See its easy to make things up but you already know that don't you.

Oh dear - is it too difficult for you that someone who actually has a role to play in training the Gardaí is discussing that there is an issue with public perception of the force and the fact that members of the force are responsible for this?
Never mind, you just bury your head in the sand and pop up to sling insults at people when it gets too hard to cope with reality.

Bye now - enjoy your illusions.

0O7 · 06-09-2011 06:28PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe while we are at it you have a gripe because the Garda ignored you and went for your sister because she is better looking or has a personality.See its easy to make things up but you already know that don't you.

BOOM!!!!

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 06:31PM

0O7 wrote: »

BOOM!!!!

Is it not past your bed time? What are you? 8?

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 06:31PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Oh dear - is it too difficult for you that someone who actually has a role to play in training the Gardaí is discussing that there is an issue with public perception of the force and the fact that members of the force are responsible for this?
Never mind, you just bury your head in the sand and pop up to sling insults at people when it gets too hard to cope with reality.

Bye now - enjoy your illusions.

STILL don't believe you, not one bit of it ha ha !! Templemore business ha ha.

hondasam · 06-09-2011 06:31PM

Group hug, kiss and make up will ye. It's not worth arguing about.:)
we are not going to change anything.

Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

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