Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

Snakeblood · 06-09-2011 02:58PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

That would require one to be issued to every Garda driver wouldn't it?

Yeah, or every phone assigned to a car. I don't know how the system works, I'm speaking logistically. You were saying that the problem would be that every bluetooth kit would need to be paired to 40 phones, and it wouldn't.

If the handsfree kit with phone was fitted to every car, that'd be a much better solution.

De Hipster · 06-09-2011 03:02PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

Yeah, or every phone assigned to a car. I don't know how the system works, I'm speaking logistically. You were saying that the problem would be that every bluetooth kit would need to be paired to 40 phones, and it wouldn't.

If the handsfree kit with phone was fitted to every car, that'd be a much better solution.

Simple solution - ordered when the cars are being spec'd (retro-fitting is also simple).

My own car has this two-way inbuilt system, I have the choice of bluetooth or popping my sim into the incar unit - easy.

Snakeblood · 06-09-2011 03:07PM

De Hipster wrote: »

Simple solution - ordered when the cars are being spec'd (retro-fitting is also simple).

My own car has this two-way inbuilt system, I have the choice of bluetooth or popping my sim into the incar unit - easy.

You could certainly do that moving forward, but I was thinking the cheapy (as we have to think now) thing where you clip the handsfree into the visorthing on the top of the car and it's about twice the size of a phone and extremely portable. You just take it with you when changing cars.

source · 06-09-2011 03:21PM

De Hipster wrote: »

Irrelevant Bull aside - I don't see why bluetooth is an acceptable solution for the rest of the universe with the exception of your good self?

Glad to hear you abide by the law in your own time at least.

Why can't you people understand,

GARDAI ARE NOT BREAKING THE LAW THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM IT!!!!!!

Yes in this instance there is one law for them and another for you, but deal with it, Gardai need to use phones while driving for a reason. Which would you rather, a member to use the phone to log an incident on pulse, or go back to the station everytime he has to do it taking him off the road for 10-20 minutes after each incident? Or even worse, save it all up till the end of shift and return to the station an hour early leaving no cover on the roads because he has to log incidents for the day?

3.— (1) A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) who is acting in the course of his or her duties and holding a mobile phone in relation to the performance of his or her duties.

(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

(4) The Minister may, to avoid the impairment or interference with the driving capacity or capabilities of the driver of a mechanically propelled vehicle, make regulations in relation to the restriction or prohibition in mechanically propelled vehicles in public places of the use of—

(a) a mobile phone (other than in the circumstances referred to in subsection (1)),

(b) an in-vehicle communication device,

(c) information equipment, or

(d) entertainment equipment.

(5) Different regulations may be made under subsection (4) for different classes of cases coming within the same class of equipment or for different classes of vehicles in relation to such equipment or different classes of persons.

(6) A person who contravenes or fails to comply with regulations made under subsection (4) is guilty of an offence.

(7) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (3), in relation to holding a mobile phone while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle, or under subsection (6), in relation to the use of a mobile phone or an in-vehicle communication device, to show that he or she was—

(a) using it to call the Garda Síochána, an ambulance, fire or other emergency service on numbers prescribed for such service, or

(b) involved in or acting in response to a genuine emergency.

(8) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €2,000.

(9) In this section—

“ hands-free device ” means a device designed so that when used in conjunction with a mobile phone there is no need for the user to hold the phone by hand;

“ hold ”, in relation to a mobile phone, means holding the phone by hand or supporting or cradling it with another part of the body;

“ interactive communication function ” includes—

(a) sending or receiving oral or written messages,

(b) sending or receiving facsimile documents,

(c) sending or receiving still or moving images, or

(d) providing access to the internet;

“ in-vehicle communication device ” means a communication device designed or adapted to be attached to or integrated into a mechanically propelled vehicle or which may be used in or on such a vehicle and with which a person is capable of making or receiving a call or performing an interactive communication function and includes a two-way radio;

“ mobile phone ” means a portable communication device, other than a two-way radio, with which a person is capable of making or receiving a call or performing an interactive communication function, but for the purposes of subsection (1) does not include a hands-free device;

“ portable ” in relation to a mobile phone, means the phone is designed or adapted to be carried by a person;

“ two-way radio ” means an apparatus for wireless telegraphy which is designed or adapted for the purpose of transmitting or receiving spoken words or messages between a person and another, using a frequency other than a frequency used by a mobile phone.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 03:27PM

0O7 wrote: »

thats a lie anyway

Funny, I never noticed you sitting in my car.
Oh but it's a lie because you said it is. Good argument.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 03:34PM

source wrote: »

Why can't you people understand,

GARDAI ARE NOT BREAKING THE LAW THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM IT!!!!!!

Yes in this instance there is one law for them and another for you, but deal with it, Gardai need to use phones while driving for a reason. Which would you rather, a member to use the phone to log an incident on pulse, or go back to the station everytime he has to do it taking him off the road for 10-20 minutes after each incident? Or even worse, save it all up till the end of shift and return to the station an hour early leaving no cover on the roads because he has to log incidents for the day?

When will you apologists realise the vast majority of people commenting on driving by gardai have no issue when they are

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) who is acting in the course of his or her duties and holding a mobile phone in relation to the performance of his or her duties.

.

We just don't believe popping to the shop/chipper/phoning their OH etc can be considered part of their official duties. Same goes for using sirens and all the other little 'perks'. Strange - same exception applies to ambulance and fire brigade yet no-one has complained about them - perhaps because of the blatent way some gardaí have been seen to flaunt this loophole.

De Hipster · 06-09-2011 03:37PM

source wrote: »

Why can't you people understand,

GARDAI ARE NOT BREAKING THE LAW THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM IT!!!!!!

Yes in this instance there is one law for them and another for you, but deal with it, Gardai need to use phones while driving for a reason. Which would you rather, a member to use the phone to log an incident on pulse, or go back to the station everytime he has to do it taking him off the road for 10-20 minutes after each incident? Or even worse, save it all up till the end of shift and return to the station an hour early leaving no cover on the roads because he has to log incidents for the day?

Clearly understand that the gardai are exempt when:

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) who is acting in the course of his or her duties and holding a mobile phone in relation to the performance of his or her duties.

my point is that it does not make it any less dangerous and therefore alternatives are available - the gardai should lead by example & abide by the law (the laws that apply to the general public) as far as is possible - a bluetooth device is a very simple solution.

This is an example where the law could be adhered to - there are many other laws which are flouted and not directly in the line of duty - just because a garda is in a state car doesn't mean they can break traffic laws at will - red lights, speeding, tailgating, etc.

source · 06-09-2011 03:42PM

De Hipster wrote: »

Clearly understand that the gardai are exempt when:

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981 ) who is acting in the course of his or her duties and holding a mobile phone in relation to the performance of his or her duties.

my point is that it does not make it any less dangerous and therefore alternatives are available - the gardai should lead by example & abide by the law (the laws that apply to the general public) as far as is possible - a bluetooth device is a very simple solution.

This is an example where the law could be adhered to - there are many other laws which are flouted and not directly in the line of duty - just because a garda is in a state car doesn't mean they can break traffic laws at will - red lights, speeding, tailgating, etc.

And are you going to pay to fit almost 3,000 cars with bluetooth connectivity/ handsfree kits?

source · 06-09-2011 03:43PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

When will you apologists realise the vast majority of people commenting on driving by gardai have no issue when they are .

We just don't believe popping to the shop/chipper/phoning their OH etc can be considered part of their official duties. Same goes for using sirens and all the other little 'perks'. Strange - same exception applies to ambulance and fire brigade yet no-one has complained about them - perhaps because of the blatent way some gardaí have been seen to flaunt this loophole.

You do not know what the members are doing, you have no idea what is happening inside the car, or what jobs they are going to. You are deciding that they are not acting within their duty without knowing the facts.

Bannasidhe · 06-09-2011 03:49PM

source wrote: »

You do not know what the members are doing, you have no idea what is happening inside the car, or what jobs they are going to. You are deciding that they are not acting within their duty without knowing the facts.

Let's see - squad car comes along Horgan's Quay in Cork with sirens on, goes through red light, turns towards Penrose Wharf. Car stops. 2 Gardaí exit vehicle and enter Penrose Wharf. They proceed up the stairs to the Garda Club where they have lunch.
I know exactly what they were doing - they were having lunch.

Or there was the guard who used his sirens to get my sister to work on time...I know exactly what he was doing as well - trying to get a shag.

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2011 03:54PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Then show me any post where you actually defended them ?
Any time i see you post on any Garda issue you seem to be putting the boot in.
I could be wrong but would like you to point out any instance.

I've never defended NOR attacked the Gards as a whole in any post on this Board. Ever. I sometimes comment on individual issues when the threads come up, and no one has yet posted a thread involving a great thing they've done, people make threads about their wrongdoings. That's not my fault, that just what Boards is like.

Make a thread with an UNJUSTIFIED complaint about the Gards and I most certainly will defend them. Can you link me to any example of this? A thread where someone makes an invalid complaint? The Gard threads I remember posting in are the following:

-The gard who got out of jail time over the Coppers assault because he was a Gard,
-The thread from the guy who almost got hit by a Garda car during a car chase,
-The thread where they were acquitted of breaking into someone's house and attacking him,
-This thread.

In the third case I didn't actually attack the Gards. I attacked those who claimed that IF the guy was guilty, that would have excused the attack. My argument was that there is no excuse ever for assault, under any circumstances except self defense. I was responsing to "he was a scumbag, he deserved it" by attacking those who would give anyone in our society the right to exercise summary justice.

Can you cite any examples of me attacking the Gards as a whole?

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2011 03:56PM

source wrote: »

Why can't you people understand,

GARDAI ARE NOT BREAKING THE LAW THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM IT!!!!!!

They should only be exempt from it when they NEED to be, and they should have to account for instances where they break the law in the line of duty. Unless they're actively involved in something which REQUIRES th law to be broken, it's not justified.

MagicSean · 06-09-2011 04:00PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

They should only be exempt from it when they NEED to be, and they should have to account for instances where they break the law in the line of duty. Unless they're actively involved in something which REQUIRES th law to be broken, it's not justified.

The Road Traffic Act doesn't agree with you. A Garda is exempt from the Road Traffic Acts while driving a patrol car. That's just the way it is. It would be stupidly time consuming and all but impossible to have to write a report for every red light broken. If someone has a problem with their actions they can report it to the Ombudsman and they can be held to task over it. I suggest you do this rather than let the situation distress you so much.

MagicSean · 06-09-2011 04:04PM

De Hipster wrote: »

Irrelevant Bull aside - I don't see why bluetooth is an acceptable solution for the rest of the universe with the exception of your good self?

Glad to hear you abide by the law in your own time at least.

I know you don't see it but I'm not sure if that's just you being deliberately blind or if you actually can't comprehend it. I'll try to explain it. In any given station there are a great many possible drivers of a particular patrol car. Each of these will most likely have different phones. Some may not have bluetooth enabled phones. Attempting to find an in-car kit to match all of the phones would be impossible.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 04:07PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

I don't really care about this hugely, but what about the little bluetooth handsfree kits that you can take with you? Leave that bundled with the phone, put it with whatever car you are in that day.

Maybe you could take it up with the Dept of Justice as the garda don't seem to have the equipment you think they should have.

De Hipster · 06-09-2011 04:08PM

source wrote: »

And are you going to pay to fit almost 3,000 cars with bluetooth connectivity/ handsfree kits?

...of course :rolleyes:

As for people assuming that the gardai may not always be acting in an official capacity whilst talking on the mobile on their way to the local coffee shop/spar/chipper - any worse or better than you assuming that they are 100%?

I know several gardai personnally, they have recounted their experience of colleagues flouting regulations fairly regularly in the course of personal errands.

Without going into enough detail to identify individuals, I know of one very serious incident involving an off-duty detective, a serious RTC, a death and a drink driving charge that never materialised.

Less seriously, while at school a friend's dad (garda) used to run us home from nightclubs, collect her from school & drop off the takeway dinners while 'on duty'.

The thread is about some gardai displaying a clear disregard for the law, abusing their position & specifically flouting the rules of the road - this does occur, is not acceptable & should not be tolorated.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 04:09PM

PennyLane88 wrote: »

Ah sure whats new. I remember a few months ago i was driving along a road that had a 60km limit - i stuck to it as the road is notorious for having speed cameras. Some ejit was tail-gating me, nearly had his headlights in my back seat, they then over-took me on a double continous line, who was it only the guards.

A few mintues later i spotted them at the drive through of Supermacs

Don't believe that at all.

SillyMcCarthy · 06-09-2011 04:11PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why should I get two points for speeding and not a Gard, if they're not doing so out of necessity but to get to the feckin' shops quicker?

No, but you should get two for your f**king spelling!

Garda/Gardai or even Guard!

Sweet Jesus & His Blessed Mother!

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 04:12PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Funny, I never noticed you sitting in my car.
Oh but it's a lie because you said it is. Good argument.

He is probably right though.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 04:14PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Let's see - squad car comes along Horgan's Quay in Cork with sirens on, goes through red light, turns towards Penrose Wharf. Car stops. 2 Gardaí exit vehicle and enter Penrose Wharf. They proceed up the stairs to the Garda Club where they have lunch.
I know exactly what they were doing - they were having lunch.

Or there was the guard who used his sirens to get my sister to work on time...I know exactly what he was doing as well - trying to get a shag.

Good job he didn't mistake you for her then.

Snakeblood · 06-09-2011 04:16PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you could take it up with the Dept of Justice as the garda don't seem to have the equipment you think they should have.

I'm not attacking the guards here. I'm talking about what it would take to put handsfree kits in. Further up the page, I go into how I don't think it's that important. Just speaking of the logistics. Why don't you try to contribute to the thread instead of just ****ting it up like you have been?

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 04:18PM

De Hipster wrote: »

...of course :rolleyes:

As for people assuming that the gardai may not always be acting in an official capacity whilst talking on the mobile on their way to the local coffee shop/spar/chipper - any worse or better than you assuming that they are 100%?

I know several gardai personnally, they have recounted their experience of colleagues flouting regulations fairly regularly in the course of personal errands.

Without going into enough detail to identify individuals, I know of one very serious incident involving an off-duty detective, a serious RTC, a death and a drink driving charge that never materialised.

Less seriously, while at school a friend's dad (garda) used to run us home from nightclubs, collect her from school & drop off the takeway dinners while 'on duty'.

The thread is about some gardai displaying a clear disregard for the law, abusing their position & specifically flouting the rules of the road - this does occur, is not acceptable & should not be tolorated.

Why do i not believe all that at all ? Probably because it lacks conviction. Did you refuse the lift you allege you were offered ?

MagicSean · 06-09-2011 04:19PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

I'm not attacking the guards here. I'm talking about what it would take to put handsfree kits in. Further up the page, I go into how I don't think it's that important. Just speaking of the logistics. Why don't you try to contribute to the thread instead of just ****ting it up like you have been?

You are correct. It would not cost that much to put sat nav, ANPR, video recording and a state phone in to evry new patrol car. Not to mention a cage between the fron and back seats. But it would still cost and there is no money in the country.

tayto lover · 06-09-2011 04:20PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

I'm not attacking the guards here. I'm talking about what it would take to put handsfree kits in. Further up the page, I go into how I don't think it's that important. Just speaking of the logistics. Why don't you try to contribute to the thread instead of just ****ting it up like you have been?

Probably because i am sick of people with agendas who "garda watch" for pure spite. Thats why. AND probably because i don't believe all the makey uppy stories.

Clogsworth · 06-09-2011 04:21PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Is discretion now a thing of the past ? If so i think its not good if a garda can't make a lad get a new tyre and produce it on the car without taking him to court too, especially in these times of recession.
It seems to be all about generating money for the government coffers now.

But you dont automatically get brought to court if you go on the PULSE system, you get sent out your fine and a court summons only happens if you dont pay the fine.
I've never heard of anyone getting stopped by the guards for worn tyres, so I dont know what would happen there. I imagine the NCT testing means there aren't too many people driving with worn tyres anymore.

Snakeblood · 06-09-2011 04:21PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably because i am sick of people with agendas who "garda watch" for pure spite. Thats why. AND probably because i don't believe all the makey uppy stories.

You're not contributing anything because you are sick of people with agendas. So you're just trolling?

Viper_JB · 06-09-2011 04:22PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably because i am sick of people with agendas who "garda watch" for pure spite. Thats why. AND probably because i don't believe all the makey uppy stories.

Obvious troll is obvious :rolleyes:

De Hipster · 06-09-2011 04:22PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Why do i not believe all that at all ? Probably because it lacks conviction. Did you refuse the lift you allege you were offered ?

Lacks conviction - exactly my point, there were no charges or convictions.

Snakeblood · 06-09-2011 04:23PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

You are correct. It would not cost that much to put sat nav, ANPR, video recording and a state phone in to evry new patrol car. Not to mention a cage between the fron and back seats. But it would still cost and there is no money in the country.

Where did I mention those? I thought we were talking about handsfree kits. If you want to change the topic to something else, then do it, but I'm not following along. throw in gold plated houses on the top of the car if you want to get incredibly stupid about it.

hatrickpatrick · 06-09-2011 04:24PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

The Road Traffic Act doesn't agree with you. A Garda is exempt from the Road Traffic Acts while driving a patrol car. That's just the way it is. It would be stupidly time consuming and all but impossible to have to write a report for every red light broken. If someone has a problem with their actions they can report it to the Ombudsman and they can be held to task over it. I suggest you do this rather than let the situation distress you so much.

That's ridiculous IMO, and it should be changed. In cases like the OP it is simply an abuse of position.

Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

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