Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

_Kaiser_ · 05-09-2011 12:29PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Don't see what the problem is if that they can use bus lanes. They are for people who need to get to other places quickly - taxis, busses, emergency services. It's not dangerous to use bus lanes, like some people are suggesting.

It would be silly to bring in a law that garda cars can use the bus lane when they are chasing an emergency but not at other times. It would be impossible to enforce. Instead it's easier to allow it at all times as a perk of the job, and as these gardai spend a lot of time on the road, I think it's fair they get this perk to cut down on travelling times during lunch breaks, etc. People working in an office can walk five minutes to their canteen, spar, local restuarant. Gardai spending time out on patrol don't have this opportunity.

I agree they should be provided with bluetooth headsets. Talking on the phone is dangerous.

When in the course of their duty (ie: responsing to a call - not taking a quick spin to the chipper) , yes I'd agree they should be able to use buslanes/cross white lines/whatever is necessary AS LONG AS (and this is important!) doing so does not put other road users at risk!

(Side note example: 2 months ago I was greeted by the unusual sight of a marked TC car come haring up the road towards me.. what makes this unusual is that I was on the M3 motorway at the time and so was he.. on my side of the road in the hard shoulder!!

Supposedly - as I rang the local station - they were "chasing a car".. I can only assume it was invisible as I joined the motorway at the M50 and it's something you'd tend to notice!!

Anyway, even if that WAS the case, the correct thing surely would have been to pursue from the correct side of the road and use the radio to block the exits/catch this mysterious other car at the toll... NOT put other road users at risk playing Cops and Robbers)

Example 2: In the same area of the M3 a week later there was a TC estate parked just on a rise in the road (where you wouldn't see them of course!) half on the verge/half on the driving lane - accident waiting to happen right there!!

ANYWAY...

I have to disagree on your "perk of the job" bit.. I used to spend 90% of my working week on the road driving from here to there doing IT support... many's a day I didn't get time for a "proper" lunch either (ah thank god for deli shops in garages

) but by your argument, I should've been allowed to use bus lanes etc as well!

Bannasidhe · 05-09-2011 12:30PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you would explain to me how they can serve the public while stuck in traffic if they are not allowed to pull out of it into a bus lane ?

I have no issue with Gardaí using the bus lane when in performance of their duty. Collecting coffee is NOT part of their duties.

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 12:35PM

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Also true.

If you are going to blame the Gardai for not prosecuting this lad i think you will find that its the D.P.P who decided this and not the Gardai. So you are wrong.

De Hipster · 05-09-2011 12:37PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Maybe you would explain to me how they can serve the public while stuck in traffic if they are not allowed to pull out of it into a bus lane ?

Perhaps they would better serve the country by demonstrating that they do not consider themselves above the law by sitting in traffic and presenting a good example to the rest of mere plebs rather than demonstrating that the law is there to be broken by the very people employed to enforce it – the ‘do as I say, not as I do’ approach is counter-productive & hypocritical at very best.

blarney_boy · 05-09-2011 12:41PM

Ok, to get back on topic, was travelling through Cork last Friday and was stopped at lights at intersection in Ballyvolane, next thing a garda car can flying up from behind, crashing the red light and went up towards Mayfield. This behaviour was suicidal, as the wall on the right of the junction means it's impossible to see if there is any traffic coming onto the junction as you approach and the garda car could very easily have "t-boned" a car travelling through the intersection on a green light. When we finally got the green light and made our way up to Mayfield we say that the garda car was parked next to a VW Polo that had left the road and was wedged in a ditch, the occupant of the car was unhurt and was walking around, however if a motorist had the misfortune to be travelling through the Ballyvolane intersection earlier when the garda car performed their kamikaze dive bomb attack they would have been killed or seriously injured.

This is the junction here:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.914895,-8.448077&spn=0.001142,0.003484&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=51.914895,-8.448077&panoid=VCaSzUL84OKm49I9HZ3onQ&cbp=13,76.6,,0,-2.15

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 12:48PM

De Hipster wrote: »

Perhaps they would better serve the country by demonstrating that they do not consider themselves above the law by sitting in traffic and presenting a good example to the rest of mere plebs rather than demonstrating that the law is there to be broken by the very people employed to enforce it – the ‘do as I say, not as I do’ approach is counter-productive & hypocritical at very best.

Hold on a minute. I don't want them breaking the law either but i do not want them to spend all day sitting in a queue of traffic and getting paid for that. I also believe that the Gardai do not have to be responding to an emergency to use the bus lanes. I was told that once by a bus driver when a garda car was in front of us.

A Primal Nut · 05-09-2011 12:49PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So the Gardaí should be allowed to zip along the bus lane as a perk. And bankers should be allowed favourable loan terms - as a perk. And TDs should be allowed .... as a perk. Hey - lets have a perk for everyone in the country!

No Perks for Anyone!

The Gardaí get paid to do a job - part of that job is enforcing safe driving on the roads. A job for which they volunteered, indeed actively applied for - nobody forced them.

So Gards should be forced to spend half their lunch break stuck in traffic?

_Kaiser_ · 05-09-2011 12:54PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So Gards should be forced to spend half their lunch break stuck in traffic?

Why not? I had to as I'm sure many others who drive for a living do.

Bannasidhe · 05-09-2011 12:54PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So Gards should be forced to spend half their lunch break stuck in traffic?

From what I've seen in Cork they spend their lunch break in the Garda club in Penrose Wharf.

A Primal Nut · 05-09-2011 12:57PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

When in the course of their duty (ie: responsing to a call - not taking a quick spin to the chipper) , yes I'd agree they should be able to use buslanes/cross white lines/whatever is necessary AS LONG AS (and this is important!) doing so does not put other road users at risk!

(Side note example: 2 months ago I was greeted by the unusual sight of a marked TC car come haring up the road towards me.. what makes this unusual is that I was on the M3 motorway at the time and so was he.. on my side of the road in the hard shoulder!!

Supposedly - as I rang the local station - they were "chasing a car".. I can only assume it was invisible as I joined the motorway at the M50 and it's something you'd tend to notice!!

Anyway, even if that WAS the case, the correct thing surely would have been to pursue from the correct side of the road and use the radio to block the exits/catch this mysterious other car at the toll... NOT put other road users at risk playing Cops and Robbers)

Example 2: In the same area of the M3 a week later there was a TC estate parked just on a rise in the road (where you wouldn't see them of course!) half on the verge/half on the driving lane - accident waiting to happen right there!!

ANYWAY...

I have to disagree on your "perk of the job" bit.. I used to spend 90% of my working week on the road driving from here to there doing IT support... many's a day I didn't get time for a "proper" lunch either (ah thank god for deli shops in garages ) but by your argument, I should've been allowed to use bus lanes etc as well!

Well then you should complain to your company about not providing proper lunch breaks take into account the fact you have to spend most of it in traffic.

How are you going to distinguish between a garda car on active duty and one where they are on lunch ? It would be impossible to enforce.

Enabling them to use bus lanes allows them to have shorter lunch breaks and get back to work as soon as possible.

I don't see the problem with them using bus lanes, its not dangerous and it has no negative impact on anybody's life. In fact it improves other people's lives - one less car in the traffic jam.

Busses can also use bus lanes when they are out of service for example.

Logical Fallacy · 05-09-2011 01:00PM

tayto lover wrote: »

If you are going to blame the Gardai for not prosecuting this lad i think you will find that its the D.P.P who decided this and not the Gardai. So you are wrong.

It was a she.

And the DPP is not responsible for the lack of disciplinary action taken.

kingtut · 05-09-2011 01:01PM

TheZohan wrote: »

Gardai have to take advance driving courses to drive garda vehicles, they're a damn sight better drivers than most that will post on this thread.

Can't say I agree with this at all, in all my years of driving on the road the gardai are in no way better at driving than anyone else. IMO they are on an equal level with everyone else.

De Hipster · 05-09-2011 01:10PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Hold on a minute. I don't want them breaking the law either but i do not want them to spend all day sitting in a queue of traffic and getting paid for that. I also believe that the Gardai do not have to be responding to an emergency to use the bus lanes. I was told that once by a bus driver when a garda car was in front of us.

Surely sitting in traffic provides the traffic core with an opportunity to provide a visible presence on our roads for the driving public, also ensures that the gardai traffic core are in a position to observe driving habits and motoring offences and infringements.

There are good & bad in all walks of life, however when trusted in a position of authority such as the gardai are, my expectations are raised in terms of how they should conduct themselves, lead by example and ensure that they are above reproach rather than above the law. The bad apples do a lot of damage in terms of public confidence in the force.

Fighting Irish · 05-09-2011 01:12PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So the Gardaí should be allowed to zip along the bus lane as a perk. And bankers should be allowed favourable loan terms - as a perk. And TDs should be allowed .... as a perk. Hey - lets have a perk for everyone in the country!

No Perks for Anyone!

The Gardaí get paid to do a job - part of that job is enforcing safe driving on the roads. A job for which they volunteered, indeed actively applied for - nobody forced them.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 01:27PM

De Hipster wrote: »

Surely sitting in traffic provides the traffic core with an opportunity to provide a visible presence on our roads for the driving public, also ensures that the gardai traffic core are in a position to observe driving habits and motoring offences and infringements.

There are good & bad in all walks of life, however when trusted in a position of authority such as the gardai are, my expectations are raised in terms of how they should conduct themselves, lead by example and ensure that they are above reproach rather than above the law. The bad apples do a lot of damage in terms of public confidence in the force.

It is not only Traffic Gardai who would be left sitting in traffic and as such not out policing their communities where they should be. Observing driving habits should not be the be all and end all of policing.

I agree with your other point and have stated the same often.

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 01:29PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So the Gardaí should be allowed to zip along the bus lane as a perk. And bankers should be allowed favourable loan terms - as a perk. And TDs should be allowed .... as a perk. Hey - lets have a perk for everyone in the country!

No Perks for Anyone!

The Gardaí get paid to do a job - part of that job is enforcing safe driving on the roads. A job for which they volunteered, indeed actively applied for - nobody forced them.

Yes ignore his other points.

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 01:31PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

From what I've seen in Cork they spend their lunch break in the Garda club in Penrose Wharf.

All of the Cork Gardai ? At the same time ? Brilliant .

Bannasidhe · 05-09-2011 01:33PM

tayto lover wrote: »

All of the Cork Gardai ? At the same time ? Brilliant .

Have a look in there about 1 o clock and it certainly appears to be the case. Don't bother trying to get on street parking...all the spaces are taken up with squad cars.

Feeona · 05-09-2011 01:33PM

tayto lover wrote: »

All of the Cork Gardai ? At the same time ? Brilliant .

You're missing the point-the gardaí are allowed to eat LUNCH :mad:. What other job allows this?

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 01:35PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Have a look in there about 1 o clock and it certainly appears to be the case. Don't bother trying to get on street parking...all the spaces are taken up with squad cars.

And there's a law against that ?
Gardai should now not be allowed eat it seems. Anything else ? Wash, drink or play sports ?

Bannasidhe · 05-09-2011 01:40PM

tayto lover wrote: »

And there's a law against that ?
Gardai should now not be allowed eat it seems. Anything else ? Wash, drink or play sports ?

Who the hell said gardaí shouldn't be allowed to have lunch? Youare simply being disingenuous. Of course Gardaí should be able to lunch, and even sh*t, BUT this does not mean they should be allowed to 'bend' the very rules they are charged with enforcing. I have seen squad cars with sirens on come blasting along the quays in Cork only to stop for lunch at the Garda club. That is an abuse of the system for which there is no justification.

Bosco boy · 05-09-2011 01:42PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Don't see what the problem is if that they can use bus lanes. They are for people who need to get to other places quickly - taxis, busses, emergency services. It's not dangerous to use bus lanes, like some people are suggesting.

It would be silly to bring in a law that garda cars can use the bus lane when they are chasing an emergency but not at other times. It would be impossible to enforce. Instead it's easier to allow it at all times as a perk of the job, and as these gardai spend a lot of time on the road, I think it's fair they get this perk to cut down on travelling times during lunch breaks, etc. People working in an office can walk five minutes to their canteen, spar, local restuarant. Gardai spending time out on patrol don't have this opportunity.

I agree they should be provided with bluetooth headsets. Talking on the phone is dangerous.

When in the course of their duty (ie: responsing to a call - not taking a quick spin to the chipper) , yes I'd agree they should be able to use buslanes/cross white lines/whatever is necessary AS LONG AS (and this is important!) doing so does not put other road users at risk!

(Side note example: 2 months ago I was greeted by the unusual sight of a marked TC car come haring up the road towards me.. what makes this unusual is that I was on the M3 motorway at the time and so was he.. on my side of the road in the hard shoulder!!

Supposedly - as I rang the local station - they were "chasing a car".. I can only assume it was invisible as I joined the motorway at the M50 and it's something you'd tend to notice!!

Anyway, even if that WAS the case, the correct thing surely would have been to pursue from the correct side of the road and use the radio to block the exits/catch this mysterious other car at the toll... NOT put other road users at risk playing Cops and Robbers)

Example 2: In the same area of the M3 a week later there was a TC estate parked just on a rise in the road (where you wouldn't see them of course!) half on the verge/half on the driving lane - accident waiting to happen right there!!

ANYWAY...

I have to disagree on your "perk of the job" bit.. I used to spend 90% of my working week on the road driving from here to there doing IT support... many's a day I didn't get time for a "proper" lunch either (ah thank god for deli shops in garages ) but by your argument, I should've been allowed to use bus lanes etc as well!

IT support! And you only spend 10% of your time actually working. I'm in the wrong job

Del2005 · 05-09-2011 01:46PM

If the Gardai are on patrol what harm if they sit in traffic. They will see more dangerous driving sitting in a queue then racing past it. Paper work is a part of all jobs yet most people manage both without needing to break the law, some even do paper work on their own time as they get stuck in traffic but can't take shortcuts.

Maybe part of the reason we have such bad driving in this country is because the enforcers flout most laws, completely legally, and only selectively enforce all bar the easiest to get results. Any time I drive I'm lucky if I don't see the traffic laws broken at least 5 times and I don't drive much. How come the people supposedly out to protect us don't? If there was proper enforcement and leading by example then our roads may become safer.

I've done some searching and can't find the advanced driving course that teaches how to drive and use a phone safely, the only ones I could find actually discouraged it and advice turning your phone off while driving. What type of advanced trainers have our Gardai got that teach driving while using a phone, ex Gardai?

hatrickpatrick · 05-09-2011 01:49PM

tayto lover wrote: »

If every Garda driver did that then you would be the first, probably, to complain about them. If they just sat there in the traffic all day and didn't get their summonses out or paperwork done in the station and just told their boss "tough sh't" live with it do you think that would work ?

Every other profession in the country has to make it work...

Sonics2k · 05-09-2011 01:51PM

tayto lover wrote: »

And there's a law against that ?
Gardai should now not be allowed eat it seems. Anything else ? Wash, drink or play sports ?

If you're going to try and argue, do it well.

All you've done this entire thread is bounce around like a mad man with no real point to make.

The fact of the matter is this. The Gardai are not allowed to break the law (use mobiles while driving etc) or drive in bus lanes just because they need to grab some milk from the local Spar.

However, people like you allow them to get away with it for the simple reason they are the Gardai, when if anything, they should follow the rules of the Law to the very line.
If they're on duty, and on their way to an emergency then yes they may need to break the lights, or drive in Bus lanes.

But not because they are going on lunch.
Not on duty = normal citizen.

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 01:55PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Who the hell said gardaí shouldn't be allowed to have lunch? Youare simply being disingenuous. Of course Gardaí should be able to lunch, and even sh*t, BUT this does not mean they should be allowed to 'bend' the very rules they are charged with enforcing. I have seen squad cars with sirens on come blasting along the quays in Cork only to stop for lunch at the Garda club. That is an abuse of the system for which there is no justification.

Ha ha yes indeed. Of course you have.
I saw a lad reading a paper in a parked patrol car once. I probably should have started a thread or complained about him to his boss.

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 01:57PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

If you're going to try and argue, do it well.

All you've done this entire thread is bounce around like a mad man with no real point to make.

The fact of the matter is this. The Gardai are not allowed to break the law (use mobiles while driving etc) or drive in bus lanes just because they need to grab some milk from the local Spar.

However, people like you allow them to get away with it for the simple reason they are the Gardai, when if anything, they should follow the rules of the Law to the very line.
If they're on duty, and on their way to an emergency then yes they may need to break the lights, or drive in Bus lanes.

But not because they are going on lunch.
Not on duty = normal citizen.

Apparently they ARE allowed to use their mobile phones while driving. Surprise surprise.

s20101938 · 05-09-2011 01:57PM

Rabble, rabble, rabble...oh the humanity! etc.....

tayto lover · 05-09-2011 02:03PM

s20101938 wrote: »

Rabble, rabble, rabble...oh the humanity! etc.....

Exactly. The Garda should all be like Robocop and do everything by the book. No showing discretion at all, just book everyone who slips up, jaywalks, obstructs the footpath with their bins, everyone. We would have a lovely country then.

De Hipster · 05-09-2011 02:03PM

tayto lover wrote: »

It is not only Traffic Gardai who would be left sitting in traffic and as such not out policing their communities where they should be. Observing driving habits should not be the be all and end all of policing.

I agree with your other point and have stated the same often.

Unfortunately traffic is a daily issue for anyone who needs to travel or commute in the course of thier profession - a lot of people, e.g. doctors, nurses, lawyers, teachers, sales personnel, couriers, & delivery persons...etc. Each of whom have some level of paperwork commitment in the discharge of their daily duties.

Why should the gardai be the only profession allowed to circumnavigate the traffic problem when not responding to an urgent situation?

Observing driving habits is surely part & parcel of the Traffic Core duties? Other gardai should along with the rest of us adhere to the various laws and regulations in the discharge of their duties.

Otherwise where is the line drawn? If there are justifiable exceptions then we legislate for every eventuality; Breaking traffic lights, driving the wrong direction on carriageways, disregard for all road regulations? They are either within the law or without - emergency situations being the only justifiable exception where clear guidelines exist.

Gardai abuse of the rules of the road

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